On October 14 2011 23:04 turamn wrote: I don't know how I can respond to this without seeming like a massive homer...but, here goes nothing. I don't see a single thing wrong with what Asham did. It might have been a little douchey, but whatever. Beagle picked the fight. Beagle was throwing blows before Asham even drops his shit. The Caps announcers were flipping out and wondering why Asham didn't get a game misconduct for instigating. Are you kidding me? I don't even see how the 'taunting' thing was any different from celebrating when you score or anything. You have a small victory, you celebrate. I think it's great. I don't want to see players running around stone faced and not giving a shit, it's not entertaining. As long as it doesn't get to Trevor Gilles level of bullshit, I don't have a single issue with it. Asham didn't cheap shot him or any of that shit. It's a hockey fight and Beagle got worked.
Given what Asham knew, I don't really think he did anything wrong either. Asham actually ate a few punches to start there, and came back and took Beagle down.
After seeing the extent of the damage, he apologized for the gestures after the fact. I'll bet that if he knew Beagle was that badly hurt, he'd not have shown him up that way.
Looking at it from that angle, looks like he actually holds beagle up so that he doesn't smash his head.
Yup. I noticed that too, although you can't say that for sure.
EDIT: Hawk, I don't know how many games you've seen with Steigerwald and Errey as the commentators, but it's often so laughably bad that I can't control myself. They also have the flat out WORST camera work in the business. Crosby gets a pass in the neutral zone and busts past the D and they will switch to a crowd shot and switch back after he's scored. So awesome haha
Not a ton, probably not enough to know about hte camera work you're talking about. But enough to know that they're probably the worst homers in the game! And not the fun ones like Jack Edwards, who is too insane to dislike haha
Abdelkater smacked the shit out of Lapperiere the other day apparently. Normally, hitting someone who turtles on a knee like that is a no-no, but Lappy's such a shitbag that 100% condone that.
On October 14 2011 11:58 Hawk wrote: Aaron Asham scored the knockout of the year in the second week of the season:
His celebration A+ as well
nice to see him stick tap after murdering that dude's poor face
That pisses me right off. That is just a lack of respect for a fellow player.
A more skilled guy that has the balls to stand up and fight you, then you mock him after you win? Regardless of whether he is injured or not, as much as I like fighting in hockey, that crap right there removes the fight from the game and turns it into a side-show. Not only does that piss off the other team (effectively negating all the momentum your fight garnered your team in the first place) but it is totally unnecessary because your team and the fans are already fired right up because you just KTFO'd a guy.
For example, when MacIntyre knocked out Ivanens, the crowd was roaring. Within ten minutes the Oilers scored three goals and carried play for the rest of the game. Not only that, but you know when you are a fighter that in any given moment that could be you getting caught with a punch and put to sleep... you don't need to give every other fighter in the league some extra oomph in their punches.
In addition, it just looks bad on Hockey as a game. The contest between the Pens and the Caps is all over the headlines, but I have no idea what the score or the final was. All anyone is reporting is this fight, this fight and Asham's crap will spread like wildfire through the internet.
The NHL is a hockey league, not a fight club on ice. Complete and utter side-show.
Totally disagree. It would be one thing if he hurt the dude, he knew and still did that. no way he knows that the guy's face is mashed in like that. all he knows is that he dropped him good. And he said and did all the right stuff after when he realized he didn't just end the fight.
furthermore, virtually all fighters have celebrated in some fashion, most on more than one occasion, whether it's whipping their arms around like Carcillo, doing the quiet thing like Talbot, or just raising your arms up a few times, telling the home crowd to get up after they smack around someone. It's pretty common place. Can't really be sitting there, cherry picking which taunts are ok and which aren't over something like that. And as pissed as the other team was, look at Asham's bench. I'm sure the effect isn't mitigated by that.
The bottom line is that his taunt after wouldn't even be a discussion of the dude didn't pull his tooth out. That was not Dr. Recchi out there, he had no idea and did everything right after. Unfortunate the dude got hurt, but that's hockey
Cherry picking a guy like Carcillo doesn't really help your point, that kid might as well be a soccer player.
But that is my point, I am not cherry picking that some taunts are okay and others aren't. Flat out, a taunt is simply a selfish way to hotdog your accomplishments around. It doesn't help your team emotionally, it doesn't change your accomplishment (be it a goal, or ragdolling a guy), and it doesn't show respect to your opponents.
This might be the polite canadian in me showing, but waving your arms around and taunting your opponent after you do something good only serves to put yourself on a pedestal and add a couple logs to your opponents fire. I guarantee the next time the caps play the pens the board in their dressing room will have a picture of Asham signaling night night with "Win it for Beagle!" right underneath.
Call me crazy, but what is good about giving your opposition more motivation to kick your ass?
On October 14 2011 23:04 turamn wrote: I don't know how I can respond to this without seeming like a massive homer...but, here goes nothing. I don't see a single thing wrong with what Asham did. It might have been a little douchey, but whatever. Beagle picked the fight. Beagle was throwing blows before Asham even drops his shit. The Caps announcers were flipping out and wondering why Asham didn't get a game misconduct for instigating. Are you kidding me? I don't even see how the 'taunting' thing was any different from celebrating when you score or anything. You have a small victory, you celebrate. I think it's great. I don't want to see players running around stone faced and not giving a shit, it's not entertaining. As long as it doesn't get to Trevor Gilles level of bullshit, I don't have a single issue with it. Asham didn't cheap shot him or any of that shit. It's a hockey fight and Beagle got worked.
As far as I am concerned that Asham 'celebration' is in the same ilk as Gillies' last year. Serves no purpose towards the game, puts himself up, feeds the other team emotion. Hell, I'd add Ovechkin's 50 goal celebration to that category as well.
Best way to win is to keep it classy, act like you've won before.
It is simply a sideshow that doesn't add anything to the game, it is this kind of rodeo shows that lead to games like the Pens-Islander crap from last year.
Asham does exactly what hockey allows him to do and something that fans would celebrate ... a KO.
Further ... who cares about the gesture he makes? its not obscene what so ever. I don't think its disrespectful to Beagle at all. The Fans would celebrate this victory, its a victory for the penguins, why not draw attention to it.
People who think Asham's celebration is distasteful or Ovechkin's are seriously way too incredibly uptight. This kind of stuff goes on in so many other sports ... lighten up and enjoy then entertainment.
I think the crowd and his teammates going nuts over that overrides the other team wanting to kick his ass. That was gonna happen either way after a fight when some stupid kid takes a swipe at the opposing team's star and gets his ass kicked for it.
To each his own and whatever, but comparing what happened above to Gillies taunting a dude who he blatantly elbowed in the head when he was supposed to be kciked out of the game (1:30ish)
is insane.
At least you're not calling for a suspension like that moron Ken Campbell
Sidney Crosby has been cleared for contact in practice, but can’t seem to find anyone in the Pittsburgh Penguins lineup willing to give him that first, but pivotal, hit.
As much as he wants to see how Crosby responds to being knocked around, Penguins coach Dan Bylsma will want to have his star player steer clear of Arron Asham in practice, however. Anyone who would do something as stupid as Asham did Thursday night is capable of knocking the daylights out of the team’s and league’s best player.
On October 15 2011 02:19 rocky13 wrote: Asham does exactly what hockey allows him to do and something that fans would celebrate ... a KO.
Further ... who cares about the gesture he makes? its not obscene what so ever. I don't think its disrespectful to Beagle at all. The Fans would celebrate this victory, its a victory for the penguins, why not draw attention to it.
People who think Asham's celebration is distasteful or Ovechkin's are seriously way too incredibly uptight. This kind of stuff goes on in so many other sports ... lighten up and enjoy then entertainment.
I don't think it is being uptight to say it is a bad idea to feed the other team emotions.
I may not be an NHL caliber hockey player, but I have played the game for 15 years of my life. In the very least, seeing your guy stand up for a teammate, get KTFO'd, and then taunted right afterwards is going to make you feel something.
Considering he is likely a friend/closely acquainted peer who just traded (well, got fed) blows not for YOU, I would be pissed right off if the punk wanted to showboat around afterwards.
It might be entertaining for a guy to flail his arms around, but it certainly doesn't help teams win hockey games. Funny enough it is slightly more entertaining to watch your team win than to watch some superstar put up points... ask Devil Fans, those guys watch their team compete with the Wild for the boring-est team on ice game in and game out and still have one of the biggest/most loyal US fanbases in the league.
On October 15 2011 02:28 iCanada wrote: ask Devil Fans, those guys watch their team compete with the Wild for the boring-est team on ice game in and game out and still have one of the biggest/most loyal US fanbases in the league.
Say what??? This ain't true at all. Loyalty you can't gauge too much... but fanbase? They are not big at all.
The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
He has shown signs he can be very good, but needs to be consistent. In other words he has the potential but not the consitency which may come at any moment. As of right now he is overrated, but I mean it is Montreal reporters, they hype the habs as much as they can, which there is nothing wrong with that. Frankly I think this hurts him more than anything, because it puts on pressure that does not need to be applied.
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
He has shown signs he can be very good, but needs to be consistent. He has the potential but not the consitency which may come at any moment.
Exactly what I think about him and many other young goalies in the league. He had 1 good season so far but nothing exceptional but some people put him as the best in the league because of that which bugs me out hardcore.
He kicked ass this past season. But he needs another strong season like that to be even considered in a true elite; the montreal press is nuts. He's def top 15 though after something like that
Fleury's in the same boat as him because for some reason the media loves him now... dude has such a sick D, Sid and Malkin. He should have been putting up consistent numbers like that years ago
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
Carey Price is a really good goalie.. is he 1 of the top 3 in the NHL?. i'm not sure if he has proven that... and i only watch about 20 Canadiens games per year so its tough for me to judge... but, he is EASILY top 8 in the NHL though.
The problem is that because of Patrick Roy the Montreal media is always looking for a "goalie saviour" to rally around.
1 thing i'll say about the Montreal media that is good.. being this way builds the confidence or has no impact on the goalie. many goalies have confidence that is so fragile their game can disintegrate after a couple of weeks of bad bounces and flukey goals.
I think Ken Dryden was given the same "saint in goalie pads" treatment and in watching the old videos of the Soviet v. Canada series... the only reason the Soviets came close was Dryden totally stunk. I saw 1 game that was tied 3-3 and the Canadiens out shot the Soviets 39-13 and the entire game was in the Soviet end... Dryden was horrific that game and Tretiak was unbelievable.
But when u read media accounts about Dryden they talk about him like he is a messiah.
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
Carey Price is a really good goalie.. is he 1 of the top 3 in the NHL?. i'm not sure if he has proven that... and i only watch about 20 Canadiens games per year so its tough for me to judge... but, he is EASILY top 8 in the NHL though.
The problem is that because of Patrick Roy the Montreal media is always looking for a "goalie saviour" to rally around.
1 thing i'll say about the Montreal media that is good.. being this way builds the confidence or has no impact on the goalie. many goalies have confidence that is so fragile their game can disintegrate after a couple of weeks of bad bounces and flukey goals.
I think Ken Dryden was given the same "saint in goalie pads" treatment and in watching the old videos of the Soviet v. Canada series... the only reason the Soviets came close was Dryden totally stunk. I saw 1 game that was tied 3-3 and the Canadiens out shot the Soviets 39-13 and the entire game was in the Soviet end... Dryden was horrific that game and Tretiak was unbelievable.
But when u read media accounts about Dryden they talk about him like he is a messiah.
Like Hawk, I'm able to place Price in a top 15. But how is he above goalies like Thomas, Lundvist, Rinne, Hiller, Miller, Luongo, Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Kiprusoff, Fleury, Backstrom and Quick?
That's way more than 8 so I can't see how you can "EASILY" put him in a top 8. He's not even close to these names. Price hasn't proved anything more than goalies like Howard and would you put Howard in a top 8? no.
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
Carey Price is a really good goalie.. is he 1 of the top 3 in the NHL?. i'm not sure if he has proven that... and i only watch about 20 Canadiens games per year so its tough for me to judge... but, he is EASILY top 8 in the NHL though.
The problem is that because of Patrick Roy the Montreal media is always looking for a "goalie saviour" to rally around.
1 thing i'll say about the Montreal media that is good.. being this way builds the confidence or has no impact on the goalie. many goalies have confidence that is so fragile their game can disintegrate after a couple of weeks of bad bounces and flukey goals.
I think Ken Dryden was given the same "saint in goalie pads" treatment and in watching the old videos of the Soviet v. Canada series... the only reason the Soviets came close was Dryden totally stunk. I saw 1 game that was tied 3-3 and the Canadiens out shot the Soviets 39-13 and the entire game was in the Soviet end... Dryden was horrific that game and Tretiak was unbelievable.
But when u read media accounts about Dryden they talk about him like he is a messiah.
Like Hawk, I'm able to place Price in a top 15. But how is he above goalies like Thomas, Lundvist, Rinne, Hiller, Miller, Luongo, Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Kiprusoff, Fleury, Backstrom and Quick?
That's way more than 8 so I can't see how you can "EASILY" put him in a top 8. He's not even close to these names. Price hasn't proved anything more than goalies like Howard and would you put Howard in a top 8? no.
just quickly going through this list. he is better than Kiprusoft Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Backstrom and Luongo.
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
Carey Price is a really good goalie.. is he 1 of the top 3 in the NHL?. i'm not sure if he has proven that... and i only watch about 20 Canadiens games per year so its tough for me to judge... but, he is EASILY top 8 in the NHL though.
The problem is that because of Patrick Roy the Montreal media is always looking for a "goalie saviour" to rally around.
1 thing i'll say about the Montreal media that is good.. being this way builds the confidence or has no impact on the goalie. many goalies have confidence that is so fragile their game can disintegrate after a couple of weeks of bad bounces and flukey goals.
I think Ken Dryden was given the same "saint in goalie pads" treatment and in watching the old videos of the Soviet v. Canada series... the only reason the Soviets came close was Dryden totally stunk. I saw 1 game that was tied 3-3 and the Canadiens out shot the Soviets 39-13 and the entire game was in the Soviet end... Dryden was horrific that game and Tretiak was unbelievable.
But when u read media accounts about Dryden they talk about him like he is a messiah.
Like Hawk, I'm able to place Price in a top 15. But how is he above goalies like Thomas, Lundvist, Rinne, Hiller, Miller, Luongo, Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Kiprusoff, Fleury, Backstrom and Quick?
That's way more than 8 so I can't see how you can "EASILY" put him in a top 8. He's not even close to these names. Price hasn't proved anything more than goalies like Howard and would you put Howard in a top 8? no.
just quickly going through this list. he is better than Kiprusoft Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Backstrom and Luongo.
that leaves 7 guys.
hahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahah
This is seriously the best post I've seen in this thread yet. Please do explain.
On October 15 2011 02:47 Essbee wrote: The following is completely out of the current subject:
Am I the only who think that Carey Price is way too overrated? The guy is MAYBE in the top 15 in the league, nothing more. It pisses me off always hearing these dumb Montreal journalists putting him as the best in league. I mean WTF!
Carey Price is a really good goalie.. is he 1 of the top 3 in the NHL?. i'm not sure if he has proven that... and i only watch about 20 Canadiens games per year so its tough for me to judge... but, he is EASILY top 8 in the NHL though.
The problem is that because of Patrick Roy the Montreal media is always looking for a "goalie saviour" to rally around.
1 thing i'll say about the Montreal media that is good.. being this way builds the confidence or has no impact on the goalie. many goalies have confidence that is so fragile their game can disintegrate after a couple of weeks of bad bounces and flukey goals.
I think Ken Dryden was given the same "saint in goalie pads" treatment and in watching the old videos of the Soviet v. Canada series... the only reason the Soviets came close was Dryden totally stunk. I saw 1 game that was tied 3-3 and the Canadiens out shot the Soviets 39-13 and the entire game was in the Soviet end... Dryden was horrific that game and Tretiak was unbelievable.
But when u read media accounts about Dryden they talk about him like he is a messiah.
Like Hawk, I'm able to place Price in a top 15. But how is he above goalies like Thomas, Lundvist, Rinne, Hiller, Miller, Luongo, Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Kiprusoff, Fleury, Backstrom and Quick?
That's way more than 8 so I can't see how you can "EASILY" put him in a top 8. He's not even close to these names. Price hasn't proved anything more than goalies like Howard and would you put Howard in a top 8? no.
just quickly going through this list. he is better than Kiprusoft Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Backstrom and Luongo.
that leaves 7 guys.
I'd give you Kiprusoft and Bryzgalov, not the other three. And that list also leaves out other potential young studs like Rask, Schneider, Reimer, Varlamov, Crawford, Dubnyk and even older dogs like Broduer, Ward, Halak etc...
If anything, the goaltending position is one of the most saturated in the NHL. I'd argue a goaltenders success in the NHL has much more to do with how well the guys defence plays in front of him than how he plays. Even traditional stats like GAA, SV%, and Wins depend on where the other teams consistently get shots from, whether or not they get second chances, and how much time a guy at any given moment has to get a shot off.
You'll notice that a good team can give almost any goaltender good stats, and a bad team can give almost any goaltender bad stats.
On October 14 2011 23:04 turamn wrote: I don't know how I can respond to this without seeming like a massive homer...but, here goes nothing. I don't see a single thing wrong with what Asham did. It might have been a little douchey, but whatever. Beagle picked the fight. Beagle was throwing blows before Asham even drops his shit. The Caps announcers were flipping out and wondering why Asham didn't get a game misconduct for instigating. Are you kidding me? I don't even see how the 'taunting' thing was any different from celebrating when you score or anything. You have a small victory, you celebrate. I think it's great. I don't want to see players running around stone faced and not giving a shit, it's not entertaining. As long as it doesn't get to Trevor Gilles level of bullshit, I don't have a single issue with it. Asham didn't cheap shot him or any of that shit. It's a hockey fight and Beagle got worked.
I agree with this. Beagle chased the wrong car. The celebration thing I have no problem with. Its not like he(Asham) kept throwing once Beagle was dropped.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/osvdeb.gif)
