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On February 20 2016 07:07 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 06:42 zzdd wrote:On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
I was happy to be very critical of Freakazoid until now, but a month's salary is excessive -_-. I had to go back in the thread to see that... Oh well.
Let me put it this way: If it was me I would feel betrayed by my org. One or two weeks would be fine, a month though? 20 business days of working for free just doesn't sound like something I'd be willing to do. C9 is a business and Freak is their employee. If your employee is going around talking shit, you might have to do something about to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm assuming the fines or w/e are said somewhere in their contract. He might even be fired if this was a normal job. I understand that actions have consequences and I still feel entitled to my opinion about what "punishments" are excessive given the context. Not sure if you're saying the status quo is always acceptable or what but what you said doesn't really change my argument. If some of what I'm saying is reminiscent of topics that were touched upon in the By The Numbers talk shows it's because I think it's pretty on point. They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal. Also I don't know that Freakazoid is technically and employee. He may be a contractor or something. If the contract says the contract can be broken by bad actions or that fines can be used as punishment, it doesn't necessarily mean that you should necessarily take 1 month off just like that. These guys are not millionaires, 1 month's worth of salary is a lot of money.
I think its fair, especially since most contracts will have this sort of behavior as reasonable grounds for termination. Whether its my shit job or the kind of job you describe. It doesnt really matter. The context is irrelevant. What is relevant is his behavior.
Honestly I think the seminar is the excessive part. There is no seminar training for hypocrisy, he knows very well what he did and heck the guy made videos with stuff that he will probably be getting the seminar on. At the very least he might learn something, but thats about it. I get the point behind it, but in this case it was somewhat unnecessary. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I dont think hes a poser or anything, he probably just had a weak moment of douchebaggery. Everyone has those. He just got caught doing it with his pants down.
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On February 20 2016 07:47 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 07:07 Djzapz wrote:On February 20 2016 06:42 zzdd wrote:On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
I was happy to be very critical of Freakazoid until now, but a month's salary is excessive -_-. I had to go back in the thread to see that... Oh well.
Let me put it this way: If it was me I would feel betrayed by my org. One or two weeks would be fine, a month though? 20 business days of working for free just doesn't sound like something I'd be willing to do. C9 is a business and Freak is their employee. If your employee is going around talking shit, you might have to do something about to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm assuming the fines or w/e are said somewhere in their contract. He might even be fired if this was a normal job. I understand that actions have consequences and I still feel entitled to my opinion about what "punishments" are excessive given the context. Not sure if you're saying the status quo is always acceptable or what but what you said doesn't really change my argument. If some of what I'm saying is reminiscent of topics that were touched upon in the By The Numbers talk shows it's because I think it's pretty on point. They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal. Also I don't know that Freakazoid is technically and employee. He may be a contractor or something. If the contract says the contract can be broken by bad actions or that fines can be used as punishment, it doesn't necessarily mean that you should necessarily take 1 month off just like that. These guys are not millionaires, 1 month's worth of salary is a lot of money. I think its fair, especially since most contracts will have this sort of behavior as reasonable grounds for termination. Whether its my shit job or the kind of job you describe. It doesnt really matter. The context is irrelevant. What is relevant is his behavior. Honestly I think the seminar is the excessive part. There is no seminar training for hypocrisy, he knows very well what he did and heck the guy made videos with stuff that he will probably be getting the seminar on. At the very least he might learn something, but thats about it. I get the point behind it, but in this case it was somewhat unnecessary. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I dont think hes a poser or anything, he probably just had a weak moment of douchebaggery. Everyone has those. He just got caught doing it with his pants down.
Employees of most big companies in America are required to go to anti-bullying/harassment seminars. It's more so to reduce the chances that an employee will do something stupid that creates a lawsuit and for appearances when someone does something wrong.
On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal.
Looking at professional sports, athletes have been fined, suspended, forced to go to seminars, etc for bad behavior. Freak's punishment is not extreme or unusual in any way if we are looking at it from a competitive sport standpoint. Although arguments about whether is it justified can still exist.
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On February 20 2016 07:58 zzdd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 07:47 Rebs wrote:On February 20 2016 07:07 Djzapz wrote:On February 20 2016 06:42 zzdd wrote:On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
I was happy to be very critical of Freakazoid until now, but a month's salary is excessive -_-. I had to go back in the thread to see that... Oh well.
Let me put it this way: If it was me I would feel betrayed by my org. One or two weeks would be fine, a month though? 20 business days of working for free just doesn't sound like something I'd be willing to do. C9 is a business and Freak is their employee. If your employee is going around talking shit, you might have to do something about to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm assuming the fines or w/e are said somewhere in their contract. He might even be fired if this was a normal job. I understand that actions have consequences and I still feel entitled to my opinion about what "punishments" are excessive given the context. Not sure if you're saying the status quo is always acceptable or what but what you said doesn't really change my argument. If some of what I'm saying is reminiscent of topics that were touched upon in the By The Numbers talk shows it's because I think it's pretty on point. They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal. Also I don't know that Freakazoid is technically and employee. He may be a contractor or something. If the contract says the contract can be broken by bad actions or that fines can be used as punishment, it doesn't necessarily mean that you should necessarily take 1 month off just like that. These guys are not millionaires, 1 month's worth of salary is a lot of money. I think its fair, especially since most contracts will have this sort of behavior as reasonable grounds for termination. Whether its my shit job or the kind of job you describe. It doesnt really matter. The context is irrelevant. What is relevant is his behavior. Honestly I think the seminar is the excessive part. There is no seminar training for hypocrisy, he knows very well what he did and heck the guy made videos with stuff that he will probably be getting the seminar on. At the very least he might learn something, but thats about it. I get the point behind it, but in this case it was somewhat unnecessary. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I dont think hes a poser or anything, he probably just had a weak moment of douchebaggery. Everyone has those. He just got caught doing it with his pants down. Employees of most big companies in America are required to go to anti-bullying/harassment seminars. It's more so to reduce the chances that an employee will do something stupid that creates a lawsuit and for appearances when someone does something wrong. Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal. Looking at professional sports, athletes have been fined, suspended, forced to go to seminars, etc for bad behavior. Freak's punishment is not extreme or unusual in any way if we are looking at it from a competitive sport standpoint. Although arguments about whether is it justified can still exist.
Yes most "big" companies. I work in corporate America, I am familiar with it, Ive sat through more HR bs than I care to admit.
This is not corporate America. There is no serious lawsuits to be had here. Maybe some shitty ones. If anyone really feels its worth their time and investment. But highly unlikely.
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Germany3128 Posts
On February 20 2016 09:18 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 07:58 zzdd wrote:On February 20 2016 07:47 Rebs wrote:On February 20 2016 07:07 Djzapz wrote:On February 20 2016 06:42 zzdd wrote:On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
I was happy to be very critical of Freakazoid until now, but a month's salary is excessive -_-. I had to go back in the thread to see that... Oh well.
Let me put it this way: If it was me I would feel betrayed by my org. One or two weeks would be fine, a month though? 20 business days of working for free just doesn't sound like something I'd be willing to do. C9 is a business and Freak is their employee. If your employee is going around talking shit, you might have to do something about to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm assuming the fines or w/e are said somewhere in their contract. He might even be fired if this was a normal job. I understand that actions have consequences and I still feel entitled to my opinion about what "punishments" are excessive given the context. Not sure if you're saying the status quo is always acceptable or what but what you said doesn't really change my argument. If some of what I'm saying is reminiscent of topics that were touched upon in the By The Numbers talk shows it's because I think it's pretty on point. They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal. Also I don't know that Freakazoid is technically and employee. He may be a contractor or something. If the contract says the contract can be broken by bad actions or that fines can be used as punishment, it doesn't necessarily mean that you should necessarily take 1 month off just like that. These guys are not millionaires, 1 month's worth of salary is a lot of money. I think its fair, especially since most contracts will have this sort of behavior as reasonable grounds for termination. Whether its my shit job or the kind of job you describe. It doesnt really matter. The context is irrelevant. What is relevant is his behavior. Honestly I think the seminar is the excessive part. There is no seminar training for hypocrisy, he knows very well what he did and heck the guy made videos with stuff that he will probably be getting the seminar on. At the very least he might learn something, but thats about it. I get the point behind it, but in this case it was somewhat unnecessary. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I dont think hes a poser or anything, he probably just had a weak moment of douchebaggery. Everyone has those. He just got caught doing it with his pants down. Employees of most big companies in America are required to go to anti-bullying/harassment seminars. It's more so to reduce the chances that an employee will do something stupid that creates a lawsuit and for appearances when someone does something wrong. On February 20 2016 05:15 Djzapz wrote:
They said something about how people who say "I could never do that in my shit job" as if it was some kind of equivalence. It obviously isn't... does your job involve playing on FPL for hours with young people with a competitive spirit? Does your job involve being constantly scrutinized in the public eye? Normal jobs don't matter, this is not a "normal jobs" type deal. Looking at professional sports, athletes have been fined, suspended, forced to go to seminars, etc for bad behavior. Freak's punishment is not extreme or unusual in any way if we are looking at it from a competitive sport standpoint. Although arguments about whether is it justified can still exist. Yes most "big" companies. I work in corporate America, I am familiar with it, Ive sat through more HR bs than I care to admit. This is not corporate America. There is no serious lawsuits to be had here. Maybe some shitty ones. If anyone really feels its worth their time and investment. But highly unlikely.
Maybe C9 just felt like they had to punish him more harshly because of their main sponsor starting an anti bullying campaign
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Liquid wins pistol round and 2nd. Good team move already confirmed.
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1 month salary is NOTHING, you do realize a small PR mistake could cost an organisation (any) A LOT. This punishment is a fucking joke. But it will suffice.
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No punishment was needed. Maybe an apology. Community just likes to see blood.
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The people who think this punishment is fair are politically correct shills. It's really sad to see that and I'm disappointed in you guys. Comparing to sports like they're an example to follow in this respect...
On February 20 2016 10:31 Sableyeah wrote:
1 month salary is NOTHING, you do realize a small PR mistake could cost an organisation (any) A LOT. This punishment is a fucking joke. But it will suffice.
Are you out of your mind? Not only is a month's salary a lot for the person who loses it, "the punishment is a fucking joke" shows how disconnected from reality you are, because either you think that his transgression is so huge that it's worth more than the thousands of dollars he lost, or you're so into drama and political correctness that you blow these things out of proportion. But why am I not surprised, leave it to someone with solid social safety nets to act like a month's income is trivial.
The reason why I think your attitude toward this is the worst is because you're too quick to view this from an organisational perspective. If you're willing to make the jump from "a small mistake can (POSSIBLY) cost a lot" to "therefore we must definitely fine a player for an amount which is very large to him", you're worthless and I don't know why anyone should listen to you. In fact, it's probably people just like you, the ticklish folks who get offended at everything, who make those transgressions so dangerous to orgs like C9. "I'm a third party and I choose to be offended for s1mple, I'll contact Intel now". So offensive.
1 month's salary is excessive because the transgression is incredibly minor. This is a public figure going after another public figure, both adult males, both pretty tough guys who can take it. This entire convo we're having is entirely build on the feeble backs of spineless cowards, corporate on one hand and nameless redditors on the other. None of this is real, none of this is reasonable. It's political bullshit and it's disgusting. If your default position is that this is fine because other people are assholes about it, you're one of the spineless cowards getting in line to dispense some bullshit justice which tastes of corporate greed and blood. God bless the status quo, this is bliss.
The fact that some suits-wearing fucks in the NBA routinely fine multimillionaires over bullshit is not something that you want to mimic. That is the result of marketing teams being afraid of the wrath of SJWs and soccer moms. That's a weakness. Will you guys fight for this bullshit until everyone feels like they're constantly walking on eggshells? The more I think about it the more annoyed I get because the reaction I see seems like the beginning of a slippery slope into this weak and absurd rhetoric. Must we sanitize the world until you get to feel comfortable? Is this something that we must build for you?
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On February 20 2016 11:56 Djzapz wrote:
The people who think this punishment is fair are politically correct shills. It's really sad to see that and I'm disappointed in you guys. Comparing to sports like they're an example to follow in this respect...
lol.. I think its fair because a months salary probably isnt that painful a fine in the larger scheme of things. Your making a months salary seem like alot more than it is. It has nothing to do with being PC. Being PC is sending him to Seminars. Docking pay is just punishment for being an asshole and breaking contract regulation.
There is a difference between being mean and insulting. I couldnt care less if thats the case, especially in the heat of the moment. However actively seeking somone out to insult them is despicable behaviour because there is absolutely 0 provocation. Are you seriously defending that as sanitary bullshit ?
Are you fucking stupid ? (Pc enough for you yet ?). You seem to really want to crusade against this sanitized world regardless of the situation. No people shouldnt be banned for life for cheating, but they should be punished. No people dont need to do 1000 hours of community service for insulting someone else publicly without provocation, but they should be punished.
Also professional athletes dont "give in" Are you seriously saying that all the fist fights and fan beatings that were going on before the league put its foot down were ok? Facepalm.
There is nothing wrong with being harsh in terms of discretion as long as the door is open to rehabilitation.
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On February 20 2016 14:02 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 11:56 Djzapz wrote:
The people who think this punishment is fair are politically correct shills. It's really sad to see that and I'm disappointed in you guys. Comparing to sports like they're an example to follow in this respect...
lol.. I think its fair because a months salary probably isnt that painful a fine in the larger scheme of things. Your making a months salary seem like alot more than it is. It has nothing to do with being PC. Being PC is sending him to Seminars. Docking pay is just punishment for being an asshole and breaking contract regulation. There is a difference between being mean and insulting. I couldnt care less if thats the case, especially in the heat of the moment. However actively seeking somone out to insult them is despicable behaviour because there is absolutely 0 provocation. Are you seriously defending that as sanitary bullshit ?
I don't think I overestimate what a month's salary is. I'm sure Freakazoid will be fine, but I still don't think that going after s1mple in the way Freak did can be called despicable. Do you think s1mple would agree with that term. Of course you're trying to sanitize everything. Are you under the impression that s1mple is broken up right now? Do you think freakazoid was mean? S1mple's fine, but he's probably amazed at how soft westerners are.
Are you fucking stupid ? (Pc enough for you yet ?)
 probs
You seem to really want to crusade against this sanitized world regardless of the situation. No people shouldnt be banned for life for cheating, but they should be punished. No people dont need to do 1000 hours of community service for insulting someone else publicly without provocation, but they should be punished.
I say what I think, I don't think it's much of a crusade seeing how I'm sitting on my ass at home, inebriated, and I'll just stop posting once I lose this fight. Until then you're actively convincing yourself and everyone else that we need to lose our collective shit every time we're slightly offended. Serves no purpose. You might argue that it's the pragmatic approach to maintaining sponsor and being sure you be submissive to corporate interests, but the thing is, I'd argue that especially in a nascent industry, it's by telling them that we're ticklish that we'll convince them that they should be. That's bad.
Also professional athletes dont "give in" Are you seriously saying that all the fist fights and fan beatings that were going on before the league put its foot down were ok? Facepalm.
What are you even talking about and I'm glad these things have stopped.
Here's the top ten fights in hockey for March 2015
+ Show Spoiler +
But I mean we can't just have Freakazoid being briefly mean to another guy who's got an abrasive personality and who can be mean himself, that wouldn't be cool. STICKS AND STONES MY BREAK MY BONES REBS, BUT IT'S YOUR WORDS THAT MAKE ME CRY. Going to hit the sack, be careful not to offend me during my beauty sleep.
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uuuh wtf is going on in that hockey vid lol
the players fight and the caster commentates the fighting like its normal shit going on, is this normal in ice hockey or what o_o
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On February 20 2016 21:38 BobMcJohnson wrote:
uuuh wtf is going on in that hockey vid lol
the players fight and the caster commentates the fighting like its normal shit going on, is this normal in ice hockey or what o_o
Yes it's normal.
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Hockey is a joke. Its like WWE on ice.
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On February 21 2016 00:47 HugoBallzak wrote:
Hockey is a joke. Its like WWE on ice.
I'd add that it's why Canada is a dysfunctional society. You can't just have role models doing that type of stuff. Now the kids are just roaming the streets decking each other in the head repeatedly.
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On February 20 2016 21:38 BobMcJohnson wrote:
uuuh wtf is going on in that hockey vid lol
the players fight and the caster commentates the fighting like its normal shit going on, is this normal in ice hockey or what o_o
Hockey is the only sport where there are guidelines on fighting during the game.
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I am not sure Hockey is anything to emulate, but then again, the opposite is true also (Like the NBA fining players over everything, altho fining players for flopping is fine by me).
To go back to the subject, I think it would have been fine to just have him do those anti-bullying events. Fining him a month salary strikes me as excessive, but then again C9 is a business and they think like a business.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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I'm not really sure I see how you're fitting that all together. I mean,
On February 20 2016 11:56 Djzapz wrote:
1 month's salary is excessive because the transgression is incredibly minor. This is a public figure going after another public figure, both adult males, both pretty tough guys who can take it. This entire convo we're having is entirely build on the feeble backs of spineless cowards, corporate on one hand and nameless redditors on the other. None of this is real, none of this is reasonable. It's political bullshit and it's disgusting. If your default position is that this is fine because other people are assholes about it, you're one of the spineless cowards getting in line to dispense some bullshit justice which tastes of corporate greed and blood. God bless the status quo, this is bliss.
The fact that some suits-wearing fucks in the NBA routinely fine multimillionaires over bullshit is not something that you want to mimic. That is the result of marketing teams being afraid of the wrath of SJWs and soccer moms. That's a weakness. Will you guys fight for this bullshit until everyone feels like they're constantly walking on eggshells? The more I think about it the more annoyed I get because the reaction I see seems like the beginning of a slippery slope into this weak and absurd rhetoric. Must we sanitize the world until you get to feel comfortable? Is this something that we must build for you?
"The feeble backs of spineless cowards?" I mean I'll take your word for it, I guess. Anyway, if only everyone in the world could be a big tough adult male, right? World would be so much better.
I mean I dunno if the punishment fits the crime, but like, since Freak's a pretty tough guy who can take it, I'm not gonna lose my shit over it. It's not like this is some silly faux pas that any of us could commit at any time. From what I understand he went out of his way to be a total dick, like actually took the trouble to track s1mple down in Mumble just so he could be a dick to him. It seems like maybe there's more reason to find that distasteful than just because it's "offensive" (whatever that means).
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On February 21 2016 03:38 RuiBarbO wrote:I'm not really sure I see how you're fitting that all together. I mean, Show nested quote +On February 20 2016 11:56 Djzapz wrote:
1 month's salary is excessive because the transgression is incredibly minor. This is a public figure going after another public figure, both adult males, both pretty tough guys who can take it. This entire convo we're having is entirely build on the feeble backs of spineless cowards, corporate on one hand and nameless redditors on the other. None of this is real, none of this is reasonable. It's political bullshit and it's disgusting. If your default position is that this is fine because other people are assholes about it, you're one of the spineless cowards getting in line to dispense some bullshit justice which tastes of corporate greed and blood. God bless the status quo, this is bliss.
The fact that some suits-wearing fucks in the NBA routinely fine multimillionaires over bullshit is not something that you want to mimic. That is the result of marketing teams being afraid of the wrath of SJWs and soccer moms. That's a weakness. Will you guys fight for this bullshit until everyone feels like they're constantly walking on eggshells? The more I think about it the more annoyed I get because the reaction I see seems like the beginning of a slippery slope into this weak and absurd rhetoric. Must we sanitize the world until you get to feel comfortable? Is this something that we must build for you? "The feeble backs of spineless cowards?" I mean I'll take your word for it, I guess. Anyway, if only everyone in the world could be a big tough adult male, right? World would be so much better.
Are you not aware of how ridiculous that is and sounds? I'm not saying that everyone needs to be "tough", but when people call for punishment for these kind of things, they're basically doing backseat moderating. S1mple is a tough adult male, but I'm not AND I NOW DECLARE THAT THIS IS ABOUT ME and so punishment must follow.
No man, it was not that bad. And I'm saying this as pretty much a Freakazoid anti-fan. I just hate american political correctness and the offended Olympics.
I mean I dunno if the punishment fits the crime, but like, since Freak's a pretty tough guy who can take it, I'm not gonna lose my shit over it. It's not like this is some silly faux pas that any of us could commit at any time. From what I understand he went out of his way to be a total dick, like actually took the trouble to track s1mple down in Mumble just so he could be a dick to him. It seems like maybe there's more reason to find that distasteful than just because it's "offensive" (whatever that means).
He went out of his way to be a total dick to a guy who's fully capable of being a dick himself. And has been, to Freak's own teammates. It wasn't completely in a vacuum. It's a minor offense. People need to stop being offended on someone else's behalf, especially over minor things.
Anyway I'm done posting about this, can't reason with the mob mentality and the puritans.
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EPT
