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Bosnia-Herzegovina21 Posts
On December 17 2015 20:28 Souma wrote:
He doesn't hate Liquid, he's just a really passionate fan. You see it in traditional sports all the time where fans get frustrated and ask for people's heads when their team does badly for an extended period of time.
I'm pretty used to it myself as I follow (the one true) football and find it pretty cool that esports is starting to build that sort of fanbase.
Just don't spam too much ptbl. :p
I think that even for a fan, it's too much; pretty much all of his posts are banter on TL
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United States252 Posts
On December 18 2015 01:07 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 20:28 Souma wrote:
He doesn't hate Liquid, he's just a really passionate fan. You see it in traditional sports all the time where fans get frustrated and ask for people's heads when their team does badly for an extended period of time.
I'm pretty used to it myself as I follow (the one true) football and find it pretty cool that esports is starting to build that sort of fanbase.
Just don't spam too much ptbl. :p Glad? Wow... I know the term fan stems from the term fanatic but we don't need to take it too literally, do we?
I think he means, its one step closer to being like sports fans, who take the term fanatic pretty literally.
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On December 17 2015 20:28 Souma wrote:
He doesn't hate Liquid, he's just a really passionate fan. You see it in traditional sports all the time where fans get frustrated and ask for people's heads when their team does badly for an extended period of time.
I'm pretty used to it myself as I follow (the one true) football and find it pretty cool that esports is starting to build that sort of fanbase.
Just don't spam too much ptbl. :p
Fans also celebrate their team when they do well or even perform better than expected. This one does not.
This sort of fan is cancer in every sport. Im so passionate I only remember you when I find reasons to shit on you. Thats pretty much the definition of an abusive relationship or some elaborate troll that is rather unnecessary.
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ptbl did actually make a positive post once not that long ago when liquid won a Dota LAN.
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On December 18 2015 06:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
ptbl did actually make a positive post once not that long ago when liquid won a Dota LAN.
"You did good baby, I still love you. Dont leave me"
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
ptbl has praised Liquid CS:GO before but let's be real, there isn't much to praise them for ever.
And yes I'm glad that esports is developing brands with a fanbase who actually care deeply about them. You may not like nor agree with what ptbl is saying but such fervor is not completely bad.
I know I've wanted GMs and coaches fired before in real sports and have wanted certain players benched.
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On December 18 2015 07:06 Souma wrote:
ptbl has praised Liquid CS:GO before but let's be real, there isn't much to praise them for ever.
And yes I'm glad that esports is developing brands with a fanbase who actually care deeply about them. You may not like nor agree with what ptbl is saying but such fervor is not completely bad.
I know I've wanted GMs and coaches fired before in real sports and have wanted certain players benched.
See, I agree with your sentiment that people should deeply care about the teams and am glad if those kind of fans exist. However, that shitting on the team and calling for retirements/dismission of people is not what I would call "caring for a team". You don't actually care for the people that make the team then. If they have bad times they need support and maybe advice, although the latter is difficult if you are not close to them.
I personally only ever really cared for teams that have/had people in them that I'm close with. As for single players (BW for example) it might be a different story though. It's kind of weird. o.O
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I think the whole notion that fans should always be supportive of their team is silly. If the organization is constantly failing or ignores the wishes of the fans then it's absolutely fine for fans to get mad. I'm not saying Liquid is currently at that point yet but blind support could actually lead organizations to get complacent and you don't want that either. I for one would never support the Cleveland Browns.
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Getting mad is ok and throwing insults is not. Just because you are a fan you aren't entitled to be a jerk.
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I find 1 post critizing oke but he spams like 6-10 posts about every match about how incompent Liquid is(and more then often the same rehashed bashing).
That is just obnoxious to the point where entering LR threads where Liquid is playing is just him spamming how much Liquid sucks. Doesnt make it LR threads fun or even accessible(granted you can question whether that is the purpose of LR).
Also I cant recall if he ever really cheers for liquid other then a seemingly disgruntled reply after Liquid wins. During matches its just bashing even if Liquid is winning.
I realize its just like Azarkon and chinese dota and that itbis within his rights but that does not make it any less obnoxious.
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On December 17 2015 20:28 Souma wrote:
He doesn't hate Liquid, he's just a really passionate fan. You see it in traditional sports all the time where fans get frustrated and ask for people's heads when their team does badly for an extended period of time.
I'm pretty used to it myself as I follow (the one true) football and find it pretty cool that esports is starting to build that sort of fanbase.
Just don't spam too much ptbl. :p
I got a mod warning for harshly criticizing a player just a few days ago on a LR thread, but I'm much harsher on hockey players in real life, it's part of the banter real people have when they watch competitive sports and games. If TL wasn't such a dystopian authoritarian cyberspace I'd allow myself to lose my shit like I do on the couch and express emotions in the way I know how. But I guess internet people want a very sober, safe experience, and feelings must never be shaken.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On December 18 2015 08:00 Miragee wrote:
Getting mad is ok and throwing insults is not. Just because you are a fan you aren't entitled to be a jerk.
I don't think people should ever be expected to not call players or teams bad. There's a limit but I don't think criticizing a player's or coach's ability is it. The limit is usually breached when they start becoming more personal (as is usually the case when people make fun of JW), tasteless (the stuff ESEA pulls at times) or totally off the mark (when ptbl says Robin should resign because, well... Robin is not at fault for the current state of the CS:GO team).
But yes, ptbl does spam too much.
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Complaining is fine. No one is asking for unconditional support, but there is no defense for constant streams of bashing. Not sure how anyone can try to rationalize that. Personally I support and complain about quite a few shit teams that I have no choice but to support due to attachments everyone can relate too. If there is nothing new to say about something then it's just annoying and that has nothing with people wanting a safe sober experience. If such a thing even exists, especially on the Internet.
Edit. If you guys thing the problem being raised is just plain complaining then you are confusing the issue and addressing one that doesn't exist. At least not in my observation.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
^ Please don't try to speak for other people. There are multiple people making multiple arguments here.
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Yeah, I dont see any of them saying teams should be unconditionally supported.
Hard to speak for people on a topic when they arent saying something. Hence the use of the word observation.
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Let's go browns this is BROWNS TOWN!!!
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2774 Posts
On December 18 2015 07:19 Souma wrote:
I think the whole notion that fans should always be supportive of their team is silly. If the organization is constantly failing or ignores the wishes of the fans then it's absolutely fine for fans to get mad. I'm not saying Liquid is currently at that point yet but blind support could actually lead organizations to get complacent and you don't want that either. I for one would never support the Cleveland Browns.
I think the whole notion that orgs should always listen to their fans is silly.
Problem with listening to your fans wishes, if that's what you really mean, is that the average fan most likely has no fucking idea of how the team works and its inner workings. There's ways to express your so called concerns without acting like an overreacting obnoxious fool and if you're unable to do so then don't fucking do it.
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On December 18 2015 07:14 Miragee wrote:
However, that shitting on the team and calling for retirements/dismission of people is not what I would call "caring for a team".
You don't seem to understand how "rooting for a !team!" works 
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My buddy stopped played at LEM a while ago and lost his rank, yesterday we played a game with a 5-man and got a tie... he landed in MG1 for some reason, and now MM says I can't queue with him because the rank gap from SMFC and MG1 is too big. That's very annoying. He won't solo his way back to whatever rank he needs, and getting a full 5-man is pretty hard here because I don't have randos available all the time, so it'll be very hard to get him at a reasonable rank again. QQ.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On December 18 2015 09:22 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 07:19 Souma wrote:
I think the whole notion that fans should always be supportive of their team is silly. If the organization is constantly failing or ignores the wishes of the fans then it's absolutely fine for fans to get mad. I'm not saying Liquid is currently at that point yet but blind support could actually lead organizations to get complacent and you don't want that either. I for one would never support the Cleveland Browns. I think the whole notion that orgs should always listen to their fans is silly. Problem with listening to your fans wishes, if that's what you really mean, is that the average fan most likely has no fucking idea of how the team works and its inner workings. There's ways to express your so called concerns without acting like an overreacting obnoxious fool and if you're unable to do so then don't fucking do it.
Never said the organization has to always listen to the fans, but if say a GM or coach has quite obviously failed for an extended period of time in real sports, fans are entitled to ask for their head. And yes, sometimes it is quite obvious for the average fan to know when a certain person is failing.
I also don't think people should be expected to not vent their frustrations. No, I think sometimes people need to be angry and obnoxious to get organizations to actually listen, re: Valve. So fill forums and social media with hate because hey, sometimes it actually is the only thing you can do to get organizations to change their ways when they otherwise wouldn't.
On December 18 2015 09:19 Rebs wrote:
Yeah, I dont see any of them saying teams should be unconditionally supported.
Hard to speak for people on a topic when they arent saying something. Hence the use of the word observation.
On December 18 2015 07:14 Miragee wrote:
If they have bad times they need support and maybe advice, although the latter is difficult if you are not close to them.
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EPT
