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On July 18 2017 15:34 superstartran wrote:
Yeah so hopefully some significant changes happen in the next patch, or we're gonna have path of KB Mines, GC Mines, SR/RF, SRS, Sunder, and maybe Cyclone (espec Ngamahu). Right now so many skills are awful, it's like GGG basically cut the viable end game builds down to 25% of what they were.
You forgot an awful lot of skills in that list. Spectral throw is fucking disgusting, pathfinder anything is still disgusting, wanders work extremely well outside of mines, tornado shot is still good, and I have a sick cospris mom build I'm holding onto.
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On July 18 2017 12:37 LagLovah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2017 09:16 -Archangel- wrote:On July 18 2017 09:01 bo1b wrote:
Zombies are trash at all levels though, and it's not like srs is particularly hard to level up with. So long as you understand how to make a +1 fire wand you're laughing. Don't agree. They are useful when you are already focusing on minions and using a minion ascendancy. You link them with minion speed and minion life and they are decent enough. Combined with Haste and using proper offering they are useful enough. Why waste time summoning decoy totems that your passives don't buff when you can be casting SRS to kill your enemies and you resummon zombies after tougher battles. Good enough for a casual player not interested in doing Shaper runs. Not to pick on you, but a casual would probably quit after the 600th zombie he summoned trying to kill normal dominus in futility.
I think you have SRS by then 
And he can use any spell for that part of the game anyways. He is supposed to put most points into defense anyways
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Srs main use is to ignore merveils iceshothingy :p
Nearly died to her the last time i went in whiteout using it because i didn't remember that it actually hurts :D
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On July 18 2017 18:23 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2017 12:37 LagLovah wrote:On July 18 2017 09:16 -Archangel- wrote:On July 18 2017 09:01 bo1b wrote:
Zombies are trash at all levels though, and it's not like srs is particularly hard to level up with. So long as you understand how to make a +1 fire wand you're laughing. Don't agree. They are useful when you are already focusing on minions and using a minion ascendancy. You link them with minion speed and minion life and they are decent enough. Combined with Haste and using proper offering they are useful enough. Why waste time summoning decoy totems that your passives don't buff when you can be casting SRS to kill your enemies and you resummon zombies after tougher battles. Good enough for a casual player not interested in doing Shaper runs. Not to pick on you, but a casual would probably quit after the 600th zombie he summoned trying to kill normal dominus in futility. I think you have SRS by then And he can use any spell for that part of the game anyways. He is supposed to put most points into defense anyways
You can comfortably run srs by level 8, before you see the first trial for the lab, let alone using a minion ascendancy. Zombies suck at all stages of the game, there is very little reasons to waste time summoning a zombie than to make a flaming homing missile. Matter of fact, you don't even really need to get life points on the tree till like level 25 or so with srs. Just path to increased minion damage and aura effectiveness and increased duration and you're laughing. 600hp kills on dominus is not unusual at all, and it's very easy to do so.
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On July 18 2017 17:31 Yuljan wrote:
Anyone needs a beta key? Just got a second one.
If you still got it, I'll gladly take it.
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On July 18 2017 18:58 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2017 18:23 -Archangel- wrote:On July 18 2017 12:37 LagLovah wrote:On July 18 2017 09:16 -Archangel- wrote:On July 18 2017 09:01 bo1b wrote:
Zombies are trash at all levels though, and it's not like srs is particularly hard to level up with. So long as you understand how to make a +1 fire wand you're laughing. Don't agree. They are useful when you are already focusing on minions and using a minion ascendancy. You link them with minion speed and minion life and they are decent enough. Combined with Haste and using proper offering they are useful enough. Why waste time summoning decoy totems that your passives don't buff when you can be casting SRS to kill your enemies and you resummon zombies after tougher battles. Good enough for a casual player not interested in doing Shaper runs. Not to pick on you, but a casual would probably quit after the 600th zombie he summoned trying to kill normal dominus in futility. I think you have SRS by then And he can use any spell for that part of the game anyways. He is supposed to put most points into defense anyways You can comfortably run srs by level 8, before you see the first trial for the lab, let alone using a minion ascendancy. Zombies suck at all stages of the game, there is very little reasons to waste time summoning a zombie than to make a flaming homing missile. Matter of fact, you don't even really need to get life points on the tree till like level 25 or so with srs. Just path to increased minion damage and aura effectiveness and increased duration and you're laughing. 600hp kills on dominus is not unusual at all, and it's very easy to do so.
Yes but we are still talking about a casual playing the game. He asked for a good and safe build and SRS kills fast while putting most points into life will keep him alive in HC. And zombies are a good enough distraction for same type of player. They are certainly easier to manage than Animate Guardian or Spectres (where summoning wrong ones makes them mostly useless)
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Can someone explain why Zombies are useless? I'm new to the game and a 54 Necromancer at the moment.
I haven't looked at any guides, but I've got all minion passives and zombies are almost unkillable and hit like trucks. And in the case they do get killed I've picked up the skill that makes them explode and since they have a ton of life, everything just dies if that happens.
I'm guessing the final difficulty makes them useless? On cruel they are so strong that I only have to use my skeleton + raging spirit totems if I want things to die faster.
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On July 18 2017 20:41 Kaewins wrote:
Can someone explain why Zombies are useless? I'm new to the game and a 54 Necromancer at the moment.
I haven't looked at any guides, but I've got all minion passives and zombies are almost unkillable and hit like trucks. And in the case they do get killed I've picked up the skill that makes them explode and since they have a ton of life, everything just dies if that happens.
I'm guessing the final difficulty makes them useless? On cruel they are so strong that I only have to use my skeleton + raging spirit totems if I want things to die faster.
Their damage projection sucks. You can kill things much faster with basically anything else.
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So I guess then a full minion build is pointless? Should I scrap it then and switch to something more viable?
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On July 18 2017 20:41 Kaewins wrote:
Can someone explain why Zombies are useless? I'm new to the game and a 54 Necromancer at the moment.
I haven't looked at any guides, but I've got all minion passives and zombies are almost unkillable and hit like trucks. And in the case they do get killed I've picked up the skill that makes them explode and since they have a ton of life, everything just dies if that happens.
I'm guessing the final difficulty makes them useless? On cruel they are so strong that I only have to use my skeleton + raging spirit totems if I want things to die faster.
Final difficulty does not make them useless, but end game makes them weaker.
Also take into account people here only play elite and fast clearing builds. If you are not into speed clearing meta you can do well with zombies as well. Just focus on their move speed a lot more for end game as they take too long otherwise to get to their targets.
But if you are into having the best and most effective minion build, SRS, Animate weapon and Spectres are much better.
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On July 18 2017 20:41 Kaewins wrote:
Can someone explain why Zombies are useless? I'm new to the game and a 54 Necromancer at the moment.
I haven't looked at any guides, but I've got all minion passives and zombies are almost unkillable and hit like trucks. And in the case they do get killed I've picked up the skill that makes them explode and since they have a ton of life, everything just dies if that happens.
I'm guessing the final difficulty makes them useless? On cruel they are so strong that I only have to use my skeleton + raging spirit totems if I want things to die faster.
Basically everything in combination.
Their aggro range is short, as Blitz said they can't project damage and they don't actually pull away aggro off you reliably like a decoy totem does. If they work for levelling for you all good, don't worry about it. Just be aware that there might be a point where they're still unkillable but don't *actually* do anything useful compared to other stuff you could put into those sockets.
Skellies have a similar issue, they're basically a worse version of SRS for the most part. Can be awesome with a Spell Totem + Faster Casting though, some people prefer that setup to a decoy.
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Weren't skelies buffed? Or is that for 3.0 beta only?
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On July 18 2017 20:41 Kaewins wrote:
Can someone explain why Zombies are useless? I'm new to the game and a 54 Necromancer at the moment.
I haven't looked at any guides, but I've got all minion passives and zombies are almost unkillable and hit like trucks. And in the case they do get killed I've picked up the skill that makes them explode and since they have a ton of life, everything just dies if that happens.
I'm guessing the final difficulty makes them useless? On cruel they are so strong that I only have to use my skeleton + raging spirit totems if I want things to die faster.
Their AI is the reason why they suck. If you can actually get 3.0 beta Zombies on things they actually murder them, but half the time they stand there and do nothing.
On July 18 2017 18:06 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2017 15:34 superstartran wrote:
Yeah so hopefully some significant changes happen in the next patch, or we're gonna have path of KB Mines, GC Mines, SR/RF, SRS, Sunder, and maybe Cyclone (espec Ngamahu). Right now so many skills are awful, it's like GGG basically cut the viable end game builds down to 25% of what they were. You forgot an awful lot of skills in that list. Spectral throw is fucking disgusting, pathfinder anything is still disgusting, wanders work extremely well outside of mines, tornado shot is still good, and I have a sick cospris mom build I'm holding onto.
HoWA is now nerfed to the ground, and Pathfinder was OP because you could path CI and get the Witch Pot nodes. That's not the case anymore, and losing that flask effectiveness makes them much weaker when they have to play life based. ST buzzsaw might be ok, but all the other variations using ST like HowA are pretty much dead.
Tornado Shot is ok, but bow builds were super strong under the ES meta, not so much under the life meta because they purely relied on buffer. Getting similar levels of buffer means picking up a Kaoms, which removes your 6L Barrage which is pretty important at killing bosses now in 3.0
Wanders are pretty shit in HC because they die so easily. Fine in SC. 3.0 beta is pretty much unfun if you don't play a certain meta build that can actually do damage.
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I'm pretty sure PF is still bananas, though you're right that HoWA is dead.
Other things that aren't dead in 3.0:
- Essence Drain
- Flicker Strike (Oro's Elementalist is dead, but still good on Slayer/Berserker/Raider)
- EK Nova
- Vaal Spark/Vaal Fireball (I know these got nerfed but I've yet to be convinced they won't still be strong...Vaal Spark has been nerfed like 6 times and it keeps being amazing)
- Totems (the only major totem build that got hit at all is pizza sticks, because ignite is bad now - Flame Totem, RAT nukes, AW are still fine)
- Brutus Lead Sprinklr (though it'll be expensive)
- Golemancer
- Silly CwDT meme builds (they even got a framerate buff!)
- Facebreakers
The stuff that really got gutted is:
- Ailment builds
- ES-based attack builds
That's a fair number of builds, but it's not 75% of the viable builds in the game.
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zombies would be good if you could get a more agro gem like you do with golems
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On July 19 2017 02:44 ASoo wrote:I'm pretty sure PF is still bananas, though you're right that HoWA is dead. Other things that aren't dead in 3.0: - Essence Drain
- Flicker Strike (Oro's Elementalist is dead, but still good on Slayer/Berserker/Raider)
- EK Nova
- Vaal Spark/Vaal Fireball (I know these got nerfed but I've yet to be convinced they won't still be strong...Vaal Spark has been nerfed like 6 times and it keeps being amazing)
- Totems (the only major totem build that got hit at all is pizza sticks, because ignite is bad now - Flame Totem, RAT nukes, AW are still fine)
- Brutus Lead Sprinklr (though it'll be expensive)
- Golemancer
- Silly CwDT meme builds (they even got a framerate buff!)
- Facebreakers
The stuff that really got gutted is: - Ailment builds
- ES-based attack builds
That's a fair number of builds, but it's not 75% of the viable builds in the game.
Flicker suffers greatly from single target damage, vs the 3.0 bosses it's pretty much suicide.
Vaal Spark and Vaal FB are for sure dead.
PF is no longer bananas as people say. Losing the Witch Pot nodes is massive.
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On July 19 2017 03:28 superstartran wrote:
Flicker suffers greatly from single target damage, vs the 3.0 bosses it's pretty much suicide.
When I played Oro's flicker in Breach, it had no trouble sustaining on bosses up to T15 (even without flasks up). Why would it be suicide against them now? It'll be slower burning through their HP than it used to be (what build isn't?), but life-based Vaal Pact flicker should still be able to kill bosses just by leeching through their damage, I think.
I wouldn't want to try it against Shaper or Guardians, but flicker has always sucked at those.
I'll take your word on PF and Vaal skills...I've learned not to believe the "Vaal Spark is dead" hype after so many false alarms, but maybe this time it's true.
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for oro's flicker you could just use molten strike or something for single target?
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On July 19 2017 04:28 ticklishmusic wrote:
for oro's flicker you could just use molten strike or something for single target?
You can, and a lot of people do, but it's a tradeoff. One of the nice things about life-based Oro's is that you can 6L your Oro's and use a Kaom's. That's a lot harder if you need two different linked attack skills. You can gem swap in the Oro's, but gem swapping is a pain, and molten strike might not need the same colors as your flicker setup.
Ultimately I think people who want to do T16+ stuff on a flicker character do mostly end up swapping to molten strike to do so, but it's annoying enough that I would personally just level a different character who's better at bosses for that stuff.
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EPT
