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worth noting that valencia/atletico madrid are also very good teams in their own right
unfortunately, la liga doesn't have the unpredictability that makes the epl or the bundesliga so entertaining to watch
bundesliga is nuts as shit when it comes to games; you'd never see man utd or barca drop games at the rate bayern munich do
likewise, the final few weeks of the season are rarely as exciting in la liga, simply because the title is generally wrapped up by then
you also don't have the scenario where six or seven teams could legitimately go down on the same day - and they also have a very real chance of beating the top six or seven to stay up
you get this in the bundesliga and epl: that's why they're the most fun to watch.
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the bundesliga is better than the epl even! its that entertaining! it also has financial restraint for the most part and the clubs tend to treat their fans well
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You are basing your criticism on the gap between the third and the fourth, but ignoring other facts like international success. That gap is only from the 2009/2010 and the 2010/2011, where Barcelona happened to become one of the best teams in history, and RM made their strongest investiment ever.
According to observable and objective data, more Spanish teams have succeded at international competition than English teams in the last 10 years, and, by chance, usually Spanish teams have defeated English teams in the finals (5 vs 1). IMO, this proves by itself that when both leagues have clashed, Spanish teams have shown a superior level in this tournaments, and therefore, the Spanish league is composed by stronger teams.
Last 10 Europa League: 4 Spanish champions, 2 runnerups (5 different teams involved). 1 English champion, 2 runnerups (both lost to spanish teams), (3 teams involved)
+ Show Spoiler +
2011 Porto > Benfica
2010 ATLÉTICO MADRID > Fulham.
2009 Shakhtar Donetsk > Werder Bremen.
2008 Zenit Glasgow > Rangers.
2007 SEVILLA > ESPANYOL.
2006 SEVILLA > Middlesbrough.
2005 CSKA Moscú > Sporting de Lisboa.
2004 VALENCIA > Olympique de Marsella.
2003 Oporto > Celtic.
2002 Feyenoord > Borussia Dortmund.
2001 Liverpool > ALAVÉS.
Last 10 Champions Leagues: 2 Spanish champions (4 titles), 1 runnerup (3 teams involved), 2 English champions (2 titles), 5 times runner ups (3 times lost to a Spanish team) (4 teams involved)
+ Show Spoiler +
2011 Barcelona Manchester United 3-1
2010 Inter de Milán Bayern Múnich 2-0
2009 Barcelona Manchester United 2-0
2008 Manchester United Chelsea 1-1 (6-5)
2007 Milán Liverpool 2-1
2006 Barcelona Arsenal 2-1
2005 Liverpool Milán 3-3 (3-2)
2004 Oporto Mónaco 3-0
2003 Milán Juvetus Juventus 0-0 (3-2)
2002 Real Madrid Bayer Leverkusen 2-1
2001 Bayern Múnich Valencia 1-1 (5-4)
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On August 21 2011 23:48 k!llua wrote:
worth noting that valencia/atletico madrid are also very good teams in their own right
unfortunately, la liga doesn't have the unpredictability that makes the epl or the bundesliga so entertaining to watch
bundesliga is nuts as shit when it comes to games; you'd never see man utd or barca drop games at the rate bayern munich do
likewise, the final few weeks of the season are rarely as exciting in la liga, simply because the title is generally wrapped up by then
you also don't have the scenario where six or seven teams could legitimately go down on the same day - and they also have a very real chance of beating the top six or seven to stay up
you get this in the bundesliga and epl: that's why they're the most fun to watch.
well you can get that in the swedish league as well. But trust me, it's NOT fun to watch.
Eveness is not the end all be all of football. I do agree that it's not optimal to have two teams always being so dominant, but what can you do it's how la liga is and probably will be. Doesn't mean that the league is garbage though.
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On August 22 2011 00:08 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:48 k!llua wrote:
worth noting that valencia/atletico madrid are also very good teams in their own right
unfortunately, la liga doesn't have the unpredictability that makes the epl or the bundesliga so entertaining to watch
bundesliga is nuts as shit when it comes to games; you'd never see man utd or barca drop games at the rate bayern munich do
likewise, the final few weeks of the season are rarely as exciting in la liga, simply because the title is generally wrapped up by then
you also don't have the scenario where six or seven teams could legitimately go down on the same day - and they also have a very real chance of beating the top six or seven to stay up
you get this in the bundesliga and epl: that's why they're the most fun to watch. well you can get that in the swedish league as well. But trust me, it's NOT fun to watch. Eveness is not the end all be all of football. I do agree that it's not optimal to have two teams always being so dominant, but what can you do it's how la liga is and probably will be. Doesn't mean that the league is garbage though.
i wasn't arguing that it was even, but that it was highly volatile and very unpredictable.
also, using the amount of won trophies in the european cups tends to ignore the quality of the league itself.
i'm arguing that the bundesliga and the epl are the best leagues to watch - not that they have the best teams or their standard of play is the highest. however, i would venture that you get, overall, more high quality games in the epl, mainly because it is far more competitive and there are more teams with the means to compete.
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Halftime: Mainz 2 - 0 Schalke
Fulltime: Mainz 2 - 4 Schalke
what a game!
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On August 22 2011 00:16 k!llua wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 00:08 skyrunner wrote:On August 21 2011 23:48 k!llua wrote:
worth noting that valencia/atletico madrid are also very good teams in their own right
unfortunately, la liga doesn't have the unpredictability that makes the epl or the bundesliga so entertaining to watch
bundesliga is nuts as shit when it comes to games; you'd never see man utd or barca drop games at the rate bayern munich do
likewise, the final few weeks of the season are rarely as exciting in la liga, simply because the title is generally wrapped up by then
you also don't have the scenario where six or seven teams could legitimately go down on the same day - and they also have a very real chance of beating the top six or seven to stay up
you get this in the bundesliga and epl: that's why they're the most fun to watch. well you can get that in the swedish league as well. But trust me, it's NOT fun to watch. Eveness is not the end all be all of football. I do agree that it's not optimal to have two teams always being so dominant, but what can you do it's how la liga is and probably will be. Doesn't mean that the league is garbage though. i wasn't arguing that it was even, but that it was highly volatile and very unpredictable. also, using the amount of won trophies in the european cups tends to ignore the quality of the league itself. i'm arguing that the bundesliga and the epl are the best leagues to watch - not that they have the best teams or their standard of play is the highest. however, i would venture that you get, overall, more high quality games in the epl, mainly because it is far more competitive and there are more teams with the means to compete.
Well as far as i see it, volatile and unpredictable league = more evenly distributed points.
Btw, I halfway directed my post at that guy that kept repeating how la liga was garbage for stupid reasons.
I guess it at depends on personal preference what league you enjoy. Personally i enjoy high quality play and attractive football more than unpredictability. Afaik that is the true for most people. We wanna see excellence and be "wowed" when we watch sports. Sure unprecitability is good, but last season la liga cam down to the wire. I think epl is not that different imo, can you honestly say that more than 2-3 teams really have a chance to win the league? Every point mattered last season in la liga, isn't that exciting?
Im not saying that having two teams that are dominating are good, on the contrary i think it's a flaw of la liga. It's just the nature of the league and i think that people put to much wieght on that fact.
Do you really think liverpool can win epl this year? Do you think the play fun football? I would answer no, hence i don't really enjoy watching them play. Sure they might lose or win, but it's still pointless more or less.
I could make a comparison between BW and SC2. Is the competitive scene much better/exciting in sc2 because we have different people showing up in every final, instead of having two very dominant players (Jaedong and flash)? I don't think anyone would argue that.
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Norway28911 Posts
la liga obviously isn't garbage. for the past 3 years barcelona has been the by far best team in the world, and this season, real madrid looks like the only team that might be equally good. while I think barcelona would have lost more points if they played in EPL, because there are more teams that can beat or tie them in barcelona's weaker games, I certainly think they'd have won the last two seasons rather convincingly if they were in EPL. Attempting to gauge just how good the rest of la liga is based on their 2010-2011 effort against barcelona and real madrid is a pretty hopeless endeavour; english teams also didn't do particularly well against barcelona and real madrid during the same timespan..
so a statement like "tottenham and liverpool were much better than atletico madrid and valencia last season" is just.. kinda stupid and not based on anything at all. but stating that you don't find la liga exciting or interesting, is a wholly different thing - and I agree with that statement. bundesliga and epl are the most interesting leagues imo, and I'm personally really happy to see bundesliga experience an upsurge lately, it is self-sustainable on a wholly other level than epl or la liga and much healthier in many ways. I mean, EPL is entertaining as hell to me, but two of the top 4 clubs are only good because of financial doping, and that is very negative.
in closing, la liga needs to distribute income more evenly, and leagues everywhere need to create financial rules demanding that teams must be self-sustainable. once that happens, stuff will even out and it'll be possible for smaller teams with great leadership/coaching to compete at a more even level - making everything more exciting everywhere. 
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Norway28911 Posts
also, while I hate how manchester city became good, they are looking like one hell of an entertaining team this year.
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I absolutely hate the fact that MC is so successful, but then there really isn't that much you can do about it until the supposedly 'fair play' rule comes in.......... if the proposed sanction actually comes into play.
And about the financial situation in La Liga, that is one of the problem living in the UK. Unless I really read random news around the world, there would be no way for me to know such info because there are always so much going on in the english game already. There are absolutely minimal amount of information regarding the other football leagues in europe, it might be different if you have Sky.
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Barcelona will win the sextuple again. It team gets better and better. Real Madrid is the only team that has a chance to knock them out of the champions league. No English teaM could hope to beat either of thus the Spanish giants. I could see inter ac or bayern having a shot at beating those two
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Norway28911 Posts
if you can see inter or ac milan or bayern having a shot at beating them, then you should also believe that somewhere between 3 and 6 english teams can do it.
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Its a knock out competition, it's not that difficult.
Funny thing (I read on reddit)
Portuguese League: Beira Mar vs Sporting Lisbon. A little backstory:
Before the season started the referees and clubs all agreed that no one should criticize the choice of a referee before a match, but everyone was free to say whatever they wanted after the matches.
So we are on day 2 on the league, and Sporting decided to trash the chosen referee for the match.
The referee decided to refuse to be in the match, and all first category referees decided to do the same.
The match is today, a few hours from now, and no referee is chosen. According to the rules, the captain pick a referee among the crowd lol.
TLDR: A team in the portuguese league trashtalked a ref and he refused to go (and the other refs support him) so the captains pick a ref among the crowd.
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On August 22 2011 02:20 Telemako wrote:
Its a knock out competition, it's not that difficult.
Funny thing (I read on reddit)
Portuguese League: Beira Mar vs Sporting Lisbon. A little backstory:
Before the season started the referees and clubs all agreed that no one should criticize the choice of a referee before a match, but everyone was free to say whatever they wanted after the matches.
So we are on day 2 on the league, and Sporting decided to trash the chosen referee for the match.
The referee decided to refuse to be in the match, and all first category referees decided to do the same.
The match is today, a few hours from now, and no referee is chosen. According to the rules, the captain pick a referee among the crowd lol.
TLDR: A team in the portuguese league trashtalked a ref and he refused to go (and the other refs support him) so the captains pick a ref among the crowd.
This is not entirely true. Sporting complains too much about the referees (since ever) and the referee that was assigned for the match didn't want to take that crap and refused to referee the game. All of the other "professional" referees supported him.
Altough the rules states that if there's no referee one should be chosen from the crowd with the acceptance of the 2 captains, in this case the game is undergoing with a "second class" referee from 3rd division or something, that was accepted by both teams
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On August 22 2011 02:20 Telemako wrote:
Its a knock out competition, it's not that difficult.
Funny thing (I read on reddit)
Portuguese League: Beira Mar vs Sporting Lisbon. A little backstory:
Before the season started the referees and clubs all agreed that no one should criticize the choice of a referee before a match, but everyone was free to say whatever they wanted after the matches.
So we are on day 2 on the league, and Sporting decided to trash the chosen referee for the match.
The referee decided to refuse to be in the match, and all first category referees decided to do the same.
The match is today, a few hours from now, and no referee is chosen. According to the rules, the captain pick a referee among the crowd lol.
TLDR: A team in the portuguese league trashtalked a ref and he refused to go (and the other refs support him) so the captains pick a ref among the crowd.
lol
is that true?
cos they are playing atm
EDIT: didn't see the post above
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I really think RM is getting stronger this year  Even watching the supercopa, they got pretty darned close to winning, and were pretty strong on the attack and defense. Still, really hope Fabregas works out for Barca- its such a heavenly midfield triplet.
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On August 22 2011 02:44 bObaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 02:20 Telemako wrote:
Its a knock out competition, it's not that difficult.
Funny thing (I read on reddit)
Portuguese League: Beira Mar vs Sporting Lisbon. A little backstory:
Before the season started the referees and clubs all agreed that no one should criticize the choice of a referee before a match, but everyone was free to say whatever they wanted after the matches.
So we are on day 2 on the league, and Sporting decided to trash the chosen referee for the match.
The referee decided to refuse to be in the match, and all first category referees decided to do the same.
The match is today, a few hours from now, and no referee is chosen. According to the rules, the captain pick a referee among the crowd lol.
TLDR: A team in the portuguese league trashtalked a ref and he refused to go (and the other refs support him) so the captains pick a ref among the crowd. This is not entirely true. Sporting complains too much about the referees (since ever) and the referee that was assigned for the match didn't want to take that crap and refused to referee the game. All of the other "professional" referees supported him. Altough the rules states that if there's no referee one should be chosen from the crowd with the acceptance of the 2 captains, in this case the game is undergoing with a "second class" referee from 3rd division or something, that was accepted by both teams
what would happen if Beira Mar doesn't agree to it.... they can just say we can't accept a referee of a lower standard unproven here and it is up to Lisbon to fix it.
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juan mata's deal to chelsea officially done, i guess he didn't want to move to Arsenal?
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In portuguese football, the referees are always "under fire" by most of the loosing teams...
everytime there's a post match conference, the loosing team ALWAYS, but ALWAYS complains about "invalid goals" or "X player should be sent out" , etc, etc...
They are playing ATM with a referee from the "Aveiro Referee Association" and if you guys don't know, Beira Mar is a team from... AVEIRO city!
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Apparently Juan Mata is heading to Chelsea for around 30 million Euros (Source here). He looks to be quite a promising player who has already broken into the Spanish national team. If I recall correctly, Arsenal were also interested in the player but were unwilling to pay his transfer fee. I hope he can make a big impact at Chelsea - although I haven't seen much of him, he is hyped up to be better than Chelsea's current wingers (can someone tell me if he is better than Malouda?).
What confuses me is the transfer news about Eto'o going to Anzhi in Russia. Although he is getting a mega paycheck, I question why a player of his stature would go to Russia when he is already getting paid alot at Inter. It's quite interesting how Anzhi have been poaching up numerous talented players into their team already.
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EPT
