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TL Chess Match 4 - Page 35

Forum Index > General Games
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wizard944
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
194 Posts
August 23 2011 14:08 GMT
#681
5. 0-0
Kassar DeTemplari
Ikari
Profile Joined April 2007
United States176 Posts
August 23 2011 14:13 GMT
#682
5. 0-0

+ Show Spoiler +
Standard move in this situation.
God Mode: Alt+F4
Malli
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany138 Posts
August 23 2011 14:47 GMT
#683
5. d4
gg no re
EvilNalu
Profile Joined May 2010
United States91 Posts
August 23 2011 15:05 GMT
#684
5. 0-0
pburns
Profile Joined February 2011
United States12 Posts
August 23 2011 15:33 GMT
#685
First of all, let me say amazing analysis from some very helpful members of our team. I really appreciate the insights as a lower level player (who plays the Ruy Lopez too). As for my move selection:

+ Show Spoiler +
I think the positional soundness of 5.O-O would suit my personal play style (and is what I usually go for in similar positions). When followed by 5...Nxe4, I would follow 6.Qe2, with d4 and Re1 soon to follow.

That being said, we're playing a team game here with a lot of brain power on our side, and tactics are going to be our friend. Also, I would like to look into something I personally would feel uncomfortable playing (for very selfish reasons). 5.d4 is aggressive and dynamic, and has a much higher opportunity to result in very sharp play that will be to our benefit, imo. I think the reasons presented for both are compelling and either position is sound enough for a good game.


Which is why I am selecting...
5.d4
Get more ahead. - Day[9]
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
August 23 2011 18:41 GMT
#686
5. 0-0

+ Show Spoiler +
standard, and solid.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 19:04:21
August 23 2011 19:00 GMT
#687
5. O-O


guys guys guys

+ Show Spoiler [GUYS GUYS GUYS] +


GUYS GUYS GUYS


OK so this was a good move on 4, and i'll be damned if we don't goddamn fucking castle now that we have the chance. TIME IS SHORT GENTLEMEN AND WE NEED TO DO THIS EARLY. i'm like totally serious. Most people who voted for 4. c3 were like "we'll just castle next move, no need to be safe right away"

well, it's already next move, so it's time to castle. If you don't castle, elly the esports elephant will cry. this is literally true.

YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE ELLY CRY





edit:

On August 24 2011 00:33 pburns wrote:
First of all, let me say amazing analysis from some very helpful members of our team. I really appreciate the insights as a lower level player (who plays the Ruy Lopez too). As for my move selection:

+ Show Spoiler +
I think the positional soundness of 5.O-O would suit my personal play style (and is what I usually go for in similar positions). When followed by 5...Nxe4, I would follow 6.Qe2, with d4 and Re1 soon to follow.

That being said, we're playing a team game here with a lot of brain power on our side, and tactics are going to be our friend. Also, I would like to look into something I personally would feel uncomfortable playing (for very selfish reasons). 5.d4 is aggressive and dynamic, and has a much higher opportunity to result in very sharp play that will be to our benefit, imo. I think the reasons presented for both are compelling and either position is sound enough for a good game.


Which is why I am selecting...
5.d4


+ Show Spoiler [._.] +


Ok so tactics are gonna be our friend, right? well, i'm tactically saying we need to castle. Sharp play is great but making the RIGHT MOVE and castling is even better-- cause we need to castle. I think this much should be clear. Just because we are many and he is few doesn't mean we should shoot ourselves in the proverbial e-foots (e-feet? e-feets?) here. Let's go for O-O and like, not get into a huge positional disadvantage just because we think we can think our way out of it?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
August 23 2011 20:01 GMT
#688
5. 0-0
+ Show Spoiler +
I find 5.d4 + whatever moves are reasonable a very ugly position compared to 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . Most of it is instinctive, part of it is that 0-0 is standard in this position probably for a reason. Also all the lines that people analyzed after 5.d4 seemed worse for white than lines after 5.0-0. Sorry that I do not have any hard analysis, but I find it too soon into the game to be analyzing too much I would stress one thing someone already posted, 5.0-0 is more developing move that keeps control in our hands. After 5.d4 we may be forced into some ugly exchanges/lines that black initiates and thus we give him more control over the future course of the game then we need or want to.

In summary 5.0-0 keeps us in control and develops well and we will play d4 next move anyway with already somewhat active rook, giving us more aggressive possibilities.
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
August 23 2011 20:15 GMT
#689
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.

Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.
NoobieOne
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1183 Posts
August 23 2011 20:21 GMT
#690
5. 0-0,

+ Show Spoiler +
if he tries to take our pawn with the knight then we can just trap with Rook to e1, no need to trap twice.
ParanoiaHoT
Profile Joined August 2010
United States103 Posts
August 23 2011 20:24 GMT
#691
On August 24 2011 05:15 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.



Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.


+ Show Spoiler +

I've read every bit of this thread, and I question if you have given your hostility at the end of your post. Nd4 could have been sticky, sure, but the main reasoning in most arguments was to prepare for d4 immediately after, most of them even say this. 5. d4 easily allows for 6. 0-0 because he will not give up his bishop or his e-file pawn.

As far as claiming I'm not classy because of a joke about "zombies" is pretty silly as well. I simply meant the mass of people posting c3 with no spoiler attached, or the word "standard" in spoiler, was just a joke, perhaps you're taking this a little too serious.
Rybread
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 20:25:40
August 23 2011 20:25 GMT
#692
5. 0-0
wuBu
Profile Joined February 2011
United States83 Posts
August 23 2011 20:31 GMT
#693
On August 24 2011 05:24 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 05:15 mcc wrote:
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.



Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.


+ Show Spoiler +

I've read every bit of this thread, and I question if you have given your hostility at the end of your post. Nd4 could have been sticky, sure, but the main reasoning in most arguments was to prepare for d4 immediately after, most of them even say this. 5. d4 easily allows for 6. 0-0 because he will not give up his bishop or his e-file pawn.

As far as claiming I'm not classy because of a joke about "zombies" is pretty silly as well. I simply meant the mass of people posting c3 with no spoiler attached, or the word "standard" in spoiler, was just a joke, perhaps you're taking this a little too serious.



+ Show Spoiler +
I think you're missing the point where after 5. d4 we might not have time for 6. 0-0 because you don't know what black may do. He could keep the tension and we may have time to play 6. 0-0, or if he chooses to exchange, then we're forced to go down a different line which doesn't allow us to easily castle.
"It's the way that I'm living that makes me who I am. It's the things I do that you wouldn't understand."
ParanoiaHoT
Profile Joined August 2010
United States103 Posts
August 23 2011 20:37 GMT
#694
On August 24 2011 05:31 wuBu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 05:24 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
On August 24 2011 05:15 mcc wrote:
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.



Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.


+ Show Spoiler +

I've read every bit of this thread, and I question if you have given your hostility at the end of your post. Nd4 could have been sticky, sure, but the main reasoning in most arguments was to prepare for d4 immediately after, most of them even say this. 5. d4 easily allows for 6. 0-0 because he will not give up his bishop or his e-file pawn.

As far as claiming I'm not classy because of a joke about "zombies" is pretty silly as well. I simply meant the mass of people posting c3 with no spoiler attached, or the word "standard" in spoiler, was just a joke, perhaps you're taking this a little too serious.



+ Show Spoiler +
I think you're missing the point where after 5. d4 we might not have time for 6. 0-0 because you don't know what black may do. He could keep the tension and we may have time to play 6. 0-0, or if he chooses to exchange, then we're forced to go down a different line which doesn't allow us to easily castle.



+ Show Spoiler +

No, I totally agree. I just voted for d4 hoping to put the pressure back on him versus letting him play any out of the ordinary tactics. There is nothing wrong with castling here, I'd never argue against it. I even tried to make a strong case for it on move 4, I'll be fine with whatever move wins here as it's obviously d4 or 0-0, we're in great position either way.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
August 23 2011 20:39 GMT
#695
On August 24 2011 05:37 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 05:31 wuBu wrote:
On August 24 2011 05:24 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
On August 24 2011 05:15 mcc wrote:
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.



Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.


+ Show Spoiler +

I've read every bit of this thread, and I question if you have given your hostility at the end of your post. Nd4 could have been sticky, sure, but the main reasoning in most arguments was to prepare for d4 immediately after, most of them even say this. 5. d4 easily allows for 6. 0-0 because he will not give up his bishop or his e-file pawn.

As far as claiming I'm not classy because of a joke about "zombies" is pretty silly as well. I simply meant the mass of people posting c3 with no spoiler attached, or the word "standard" in spoiler, was just a joke, perhaps you're taking this a little too serious.



+ Show Spoiler +
I think you're missing the point where after 5. d4 we might not have time for 6. 0-0 because you don't know what black may do. He could keep the tension and we may have time to play 6. 0-0, or if he chooses to exchange, then we're forced to go down a different line which doesn't allow us to easily castle.



+ Show Spoiler +

No, I totally agree. I just voted for d4 hoping to put the pressure back on him versus letting him play any out of the ordinary tactics. There is nothing wrong with castling here, I'd never argue against it. I even tried to make a strong case for it on move 4, I'll be fine with whatever move wins here as it's obviously d4 or 0-0, we're in great position either way.


+ Show Spoiler +

I'd prefer 0-0 due to the pressing, urgent need to castle that we currently have. What if 6. 0-0 isn't a possibility because he gets all up in our business? We should castle right away.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
aphorism
Profile Joined February 2011
United States226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 22:25:54
August 23 2011 20:46 GMT
#696
5. d4

Edit: Changed to d4. + Show Spoiler +
It looks like jdseemoreglass doesn't actually think it's the right move, I don't know how I read that in his earlier post....
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
August 23 2011 20:49 GMT
#697
On August 24 2011 05:24 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 05:15 mcc wrote:
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.



Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.


+ Show Spoiler +

I've read every bit of this thread, and I question if you have given your hostility at the end of your post. Nd4 could have been sticky, sure, but the main reasoning in most arguments was to prepare for d4 immediately after, most of them even say this. 5. d4 easily allows for 6. 0-0 because he will not give up his bishop or his e-file pawn.

As far as claiming I'm not classy because of a joke about "zombies" is pretty silly as well. I simply meant the mass of people posting c3 with no spoiler attached, or the word "standard" in spoiler, was just a joke, perhaps you're taking this a little too serious.

+ Show Spoiler +
Hostility was just reciprocity as your post "sounded" definitely more hostile than joking. As for the rest let's leave it be as I do not really want to go back and count how many people said exactly what and compare the numbers on both sides of the 4.0-0 vs 4.c3 divide.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
August 23 2011 20:56 GMT
#698
On August 24 2011 05:49 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 05:24 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
On August 24 2011 05:15 mcc wrote:
On August 23 2011 14:17 ParanoiaHoT wrote:
5. d4

+ Show Spoiler +

So ridiculously silly. So many of us gave great reasoning behind castling on move 4, but were overwhelmed by the c3 horde of zombies, now people are voting castle as move 5 making our c3 move pointless, it accomplishes nothing without d4 for the pressure right after. If you want to castle now, you should of wanted to castle on move 4 so we could 5. c3 and 6. d4. Not to c3 so for a future d4. We could of already had the safety of the castle, people opted out.

What is the point of castling now versus d4? I was all for castling on move 4, but besides the "standard" argument I see in every spoiler I open (really super fun way to play) there's no reason to castle until 6, after we force some pressure. Our f pawn is fine, he didn't sac before, he won't now. He's threatening more with his Nf6, the absolute best move here is d4.


+ Show Spoiler +
Seems you did not really read what was people's motivation for 4.c3. There were many. One was to control d4, for example to prevent Nd4. Other (mine) was that after 4.c3 black can play f5, which he won't do after 4.0-0. The 4.c3 prepares d4, does not mean we have to play it immediately as playing 5.d4 again has different consequences than 5.0-0 0-0 6.d4 . In my opinion which I already posted somewhere is that 5.0-0 keeps us more in control of the game and instead of going quick exchange route gives us one more semi-active piece we can use to pressure the black. Also after 5.d4 there in most likelihood will be no castling on 6. as we will be in bound to some exchange line.



Also calling people zombies, because they chose against your wishes in a situation where neither move has any superiority that can be demonstrated is really classy.


+ Show Spoiler +

I've read every bit of this thread, and I question if you have given your hostility at the end of your post. Nd4 could have been sticky, sure, but the main reasoning in most arguments was to prepare for d4 immediately after, most of them even say this. 5. d4 easily allows for 6. 0-0 because he will not give up his bishop or his e-file pawn.

As far as claiming I'm not classy because of a joke about "zombies" is pretty silly as well. I simply meant the mass of people posting c3 with no spoiler attached, or the word "standard" in spoiler, was just a joke, perhaps you're taking this a little too serious.

+ Show Spoiler +
Hostility was just reciprocity as your post "sounded" definitely more hostile than joking. As for the rest let's leave it be as I do not really want to go back and count how many people said exactly what and compare the numbers on both sides of the 4.0-0 vs 4.c3 divide.


+ Show Spoiler +
I think that castling is the tactically sound move here. Even though it hands him back the initiative, so to speak, it's important that we make this move now while we have the chance. We control d4 already with c3, we can play d4 later if we want... but we need to castle ASAP.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 21:23:01
August 23 2011 21:17 GMT
#699
People are suggesting that after 5. d4 we might never be able to + Show Spoiler +
castle
but I haven't seen a single line where that is the case. Does anyone have an actual line showing this, rather than speculation off the fact that Black can play one or two forcing moves?

I'd bet money that after 5. d4, White can (see above spoiler) with impunity no matter what Black does. Prove me wrong, and I'll be grateful. I doubt you can, though.

On August 24 2011 05:21 NoobieOne wrote:
5. 0-0,

+ Show Spoiler +
if he tries to take our pawn with the knight then we can just trap with Rook to e1, no need to trap twice.
No we can't. + Show Spoiler +
6...Bxf1+ King moves 7. BxR
That's just a minor point, though; there are other things we could do in that position, as people have discussed already.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
KingStuart
Profile Joined August 2010
England16 Posts
August 23 2011 21:18 GMT
#700
5. 0-0

+ Show Spoiler +
My thoughts.

The only reason I wouldn't have castled last move was our position after 4...Nd4 is a bad one. And while 5. d4 is perfectly playable and indeed may even be objectively better, it is, in general, more difficult to play accurately in large group voting, and so I would rather take the more solid position than the more aggressive/risky one.
'If only there was somewhere I could work out and pwn people at the same time'
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