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TL Chess Match 4 - Page 117

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docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
November 15 2011 05:15 GMT
#2321
how do i join?
User was warned for too many mimes.
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
November 15 2011 05:17 GMT
#2322
Just vote and I'll add you to the roster.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 05:32:08
November 15 2011 05:31 GMT
#2323
Yeah, Re3 looks pretty good. Defends a pawn, attacks the rook, and prepares us to potentially double rooks.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
November 15 2011 07:21 GMT
#2324
"OK, no big surprise: this was one of the three moves we were expecting."

c6 wasn't good aside from holding a draw where I have no chance of winning ever, unless you don't realize you have no real plan and mess up hugely.

And I don't know what else. c5 is tempting but pretty bad right here and every other move would not do anything.

Well yes, not to mention Reb8 loses instantly.
Archers_bane
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1338 Posts
November 15 2011 07:29 GMT
#2325
re3 looks strong and purposeful
Starcraft's BW glory days have passed, RIP Jaedong's dominance - 2013...EDIT 2017: WE BACK BOYS
Raysalis
Profile Joined July 2010
Malaysia1034 Posts
November 15 2011 11:29 GMT
#2326
Re3
:)
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
November 15 2011 11:57 GMT
#2327
On November 15 2011 16:21 Ng5 wrote:
"OK, no big surprise: this was one of the three moves we were expecting."

c6 wasn't good aside from holding a draw where I have no chance of winning ever, unless you don't realize you have no real plan and mess up hugely.

And I don't know what else. c5 is tempting but pretty bad right here and every other move would not do anything.

Well yes, not to mention Reb8 loses instantly.
Yes, those were the three (not Reb8).

I think we're coming at this game from slightly different points of view: i.e. you're treating a draw as something you want to avoid, while I've been considering it something you should be happy to come away with.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
November 15 2011 12:27 GMT
#2328
It's not entirely like that. I mean it's not entirely about avoiding the draw, it's a different perspective that I'll be happy to share after the game.

I've been taking notes on what to tell you during the post game analysis for a very long time now. I think when it's over I'll take out a Saturday and do at least a six-hour analysis on my stream. If I ever actually get back to streaming.

After all the fuss it seems impossible sometimes.
drevil69
Profile Joined May 2011
64 Posts
November 15 2011 13:04 GMT
#2329
black should give up...
Speshal tectics!
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
November 15 2011 13:14 GMT
#2330
I love me some constructive opinions in the morning.
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
November 15 2011 13:31 GMT
#2331
22. Re3

+ Show Spoiler +
I'm voting the same move as last time, this time looks like this move will win...
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
November 15 2011 14:00 GMT
#2332
On November 15 2011 21:27 Ng5 wrote:
I've been taking notes on what to tell you during the post game analysis for a very long time now. I think when it's over I'll take out a Saturday and do at least a six-hour analysis on my stream. If I ever actually get back to streaming.
If you do the post-game analysis on your stream, please record it!
On November 15 2011 22:31 chesshaha wrote:
I'm voting the same move as last time, this time looks like this move will win...
It's a better move this time (imho).
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
SheaR619
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2399 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 15:12:29
November 15 2011 15:12 GMT
#2333
22. Re3

+ Show Spoiler +
Black will end up giving up that position. He cant do Bd3 because we can follow it up by doing Ne1 which basically win us a free bishop. This mean his only logical response is to retreat. This will basically force black to retreat and play defensively again or go for the a5 pawn instead which I think he is going to do next.
I may not be the best, but i will be some day...
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 16:30:20
November 15 2011 15:34 GMT
#2334
On November 16 2011 00:12 SheaR619 wrote:
22. Re3

+ Show Spoiler +
Black will end up giving up that position. He cant do Bd3 because we can follow it up by doing Ne1 which basically win us a free bishop. This mean his only logical response is to retreat. This will basically force black to retreat and play defensively again or go for the a5 pawn instead which I think he is going to do next.
I disagree: I think Black will play one of three moves, none of which are the one that you mention.
+ Show Spoiler +
His most likely move, imo, is 22...Rxd3, but he could also play 22...Rcb8 or 22...Rd3.

If Black gives up the position, as you suggest, Re1 is a strong move for us (prefaced by 23. a4 if Black plays 22...Rb5). For that reason, I think that Black will play one of the three above moves. See 22. Re3 on the tree for more analysis.

edit: actually, maybe your move works out for Black too... looking at it some more...

PS: I miss everyone posting analysis. . I'm doing what I can myself, but my analysis abilities pale in comparison to those of the team as a whole. Come back, guys!

edit 2: OK, I added SheaR's suggestion to the tree, here. It looks like it has potential to be an interesting line. I kind of hope Black will go down it, as the other suggested continuations tend to lead to simplification. I think we have strong chances if he does, so I'm afraid he probably won't, but who knows the mind of Ng5?
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
November 15 2011 18:44 GMT
#2335
I ll vote

22. Re3

as well
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
November 15 2011 18:46 GMT
#2336
Calling for help from other analysts (i.e. anyone who feels like analyzing this game):

Assuming that we play 22. Re3, which seems likely (not to mention that I can't come up with a move I like better), the Black response that I'm most concerned about is this one. We only have a couple of reasonable-looking responses to that--and unless I've mis-assessed it, the first of these actually allows Black to take control of the game.

You can help by a) confirming that this first option is bad and/or b) seeing if the other option(s) is(/are) any better.

Much thanks to anyone who takes this up!
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25562 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 19:10:21
November 15 2011 18:48 GMT
#2337
Currently I don't have time to examine the board position due to IRL issues. Unless I get some free time this week (unlikely) my vote is

22. Abstain


EDIT: PS:
Ok so I'll bite. I don't particularly dislike
22. Re3 Rxe3
23. fxe3
+ Show Spoiler +

the reason I don't dislike it is our chief threat is the C pawn-- we have only one islanded pawn to fight it with. by bringing the f pawn over the the e file, we un-island our pawns, and I remain confident that our g and h pawns can handle the situations on f and h. By bringing a pawn guard up on our d pawn things we give our knight mobility, which is important since he has a white bishop.

It's currently very worrisome that he can at some point play Bd3, but this problem basically won't go away since our pawns are past that point. Our ability to contest him on white squares is weak because of the bishop situation, unless we use our knight, who is a baller.

What I really really really don't like is how it gets our bishop trapped on the right side. And that in the short term he can still do some sort of bishop move to get onto d3.

I'm unclear on what to do here.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 19:44:24
November 15 2011 19:41 GMT
#2338
...Rc8 has proven that black does not wish to trade material in the present position. Therefore, creating awkward moves for black (by threatening material trades) continues to be our best course of action.
22. Re3

Edit: Blazinghand:+ Show Spoiler +
I don't see why Bd3 is a problem for us. Care to explain?
Please PM me with any songs you like that you think I haven't heard before!
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 20:24:28
November 15 2011 20:18 GMT
#2339
On November 16 2011 04:41 hp.Shell wrote:
...Rc8 has proven that black does not wish to trade material in the present position.
Careful with the assumptions....

21. Bf4 created a situation where, if Black moved his e7 Bishop, RxR KxR would leave White free to capture an important pawn (much more important than the a3 pawn) with Bxc7. Understandably, Black would not want to allow that particular trade in that particular position. I don't think we can extrapolate anything more.

@Blazinghand: imho, we should put future moves that we're considering into spoilers in this thread.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
November 15 2011 21:46 GMT
#2340
On November 16 2011 05:18 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 04:41 hp.Shell wrote:
...Rc8 has proven that black does not wish to trade material in the present position.
Careful with the assumptions....

21. Bf4 created a situation where, if Black moved his e7 Bishop, RxR KxR would leave White free to capture an important pawn (much more important than the a3 pawn) with Bxc7. Understandably, Black would not want to allow that particular trade in that particular position. I don't think we can extrapolate anything more.

@Blazinghand: imho, we should put future moves that we're considering into spoilers in this thread.

True. Still good to keep black making awkward moves. If he does decide to trade material it's to our advantage.
Please PM me with any songs you like that you think I haven't heard before!
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