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On August 21 2011 19:37 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 14:13 Pewt wrote:On August 16 2011 18:54 Simberto wrote:
I also have got a question. Is there any trick in getting the HRE provinces to vote for your reforms, or do you really have to have good relations with all those 30 OPMs, have low infamy and make them have your religion? Is there a good way to increase your relations, because with those 5-6 diplomats a year it takes forever. I already married nearly every single country (I am seriously astonished as to how many royal siblings i seem to have) Or should i just abandon all hope to ever get those reforms done and form the empire as a nation and go conquer france or something like that? So far, only the first reform has been passed, and that was by the former emperor. And we already have the year 1530. I am at full imperial power, but i don't want to waste it again, i already tried to pass the second reform twice without any success.
Being emperor and having about half of the empire as my vassals makes me able to win wars against almost anyone, but i still only have very few provinces since you cannot ever conquer anything inside the empire. (I guess this isn't totally necessary since you apparently united the empire now, but in case you or anyone else wants a bit more info) + Show Spoiler [wall of text] +I personally don't even bother sending gifts to anyone other than electors; answering HRE members' calls gives about +100 relations with *everyone* in the HRE (and denying those calls is about the same but negative), so answer a few wars and make sure never to miss any and you'll have +200 with everyone. If you aren't getting any calls, don't worry; they'll happen eventually (a lot of new players seem to expect massive changes to the world in 10-20 year periods, which rarely actually happens). From there, just bribe people who you have to go to war with once the war is over. Also make sure you get a winning peace deal (even if it's just them conceding defeat) for the extra +10 authority.
Other than relations, keep your Diplomatic Skill up (hire an Ambassador, add lots of nations to your Sphere of Influence whenever you have spare prestige), and make sure people don't convert en masse (people of different religions are very uncooperative no matter what).
Another nice (and somewhat abusive) trick to farm imperial authority quickly is to annex vassals and then release them immediately after for the +10 bonus for a state being formed in the empire. The fastest way to do this is by releasing all possible vassals you have cores on (ex Milan, Styria, Tirol, Aquilea as Austria depending on who you killed thanks to missions/calls to arms), waiting for the 5 year truce to expire, cancelling their vassal status and then quickly wiping them all out with reconquest.
Beyond that, some nations just can't resist annexing the same people over and over, such as Brandenburg taking Pommerania and Denmark taking Holstein. Just make sure to leave those people strong enough to keep annexing those nations every few years and you'll have an infinite source of authority to farm (usually often enough that you can be at war with someone or other as often as your war exhaustion allows).
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If you want to aim to form the HRE and be a superpower from the start of the game, I'd suggest someone like Aragon, Castille, France, or Naples who will be grabbing up lots of non-HRE territory but not interfering much in eastern Europe (let Bohemia and Austria take all of that, it just means more land for you later). Vassalize 4 or 5 electors and keep them happy and you'll become emperor pretty soon, then add all your provinces to the empire for a big authority boost (and if you're close to unifying the empire release all your newly-empirefied potential vassals for a big extra authority boost; for example, as Aragon I released all the french minors, naples, the pope, etc for at least 100 extra authority). By the time you unify (probably late 1500s) you can take a good chunk of the world (in my case about half of africa, all of north america, and all of europe, as well as some random provinces elsewhere).
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That said, I'd suggest some roleplaying and aiming for smaller goals (and playing a smaller nation in general) for a more fun overall experience; early on the game isn't all that hard as someone like Castille or France, and once you unite the empire nothing in the game will even remotely challenge you. For example, playing Brandenburg and eventually forming Prussia and then Germany with historically accurate borders and few or no colonies can be substantially more challenging while still quite manageable for a new player, especially since later in the game you'll probably get absurd wars like France+Castille+England+Portugal+Austria+Bohemia at once if you don't bother to repair your relations, which can create a nice endgame "final boss" situation. Yes, i seem to have done some mistakes making everyone hating me about 2-3 times, like converting to protestant very early. Strangely, the relations lost from that do not repair if the other state converts afterwards. Also marrying everyone and then claiming a throne is not a particularly smart idea. That probably explains why i had such a hard time repairing my relations with everyone. Being emperor was not really a problem since i vassalised 4 electors in some early wars, and bohemia as emperor at that time did not seem to care much about that. Forming the empire seemed to be the most logical thing to do as a german minor, since you can't really fight in germany with the mali from illegal territory. Apparently, only notable nations get useful missions, while small uninteresting nations only get useless stuff like "build more soldiers than x for 5 army tradition"
Anyone can get Claims On Our Rivals and Border Dispute (events), and Subjugation or Conquest missions, but unless you're really lucky they won't come often enough to matter much. That said, it's not like it's impossible to take illegal territory; just don't take too much all at once and it's manageable. Hell, it isn't all that different from playing a small nation elsewhere; in the HRE you expand slowly because of the debuffs, but outside of it you expand slowly because most of your neighbours are far stronger than you. The debuffs are mostly there to balance the advantages of starting in a balkanized part of Europe which also happens to be the richest area of the world.
On top of that, many nations don't really need to expand into the HRE; anyone on the borders of it can expand that way, while anyone bordering the sea is often well set to be a colonial power (thanks to great trade revenue and protection from the empire). For example, Holland may appear weak at first glance but they're probably one of the strongest nations in the game when played right, and they don't get a single coring mission (other than all the cores they get once they form the netherlands, which requires you to take some unlawful territory to do).
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On August 21 2011 20:17 poor newb wrote:my current ryukyu WC at 1650 997 infamy and 18.72 WE and raising 5-10 rebels every month np ![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/30toz02.jpg)
Are you sure you aren't using a mod or something? Your stability should be -3(obviously), your income should be extremely low and there should be many more revolts. When I got 64 infamy as Fujiwara, I got bad events every month and rebels as well...and I had only a few provinces, not this many.
Anyway, I finished my third game as Teutonic Order now. Was allied with France until the end then. Broke my alliance once or twice to avoid a war with Lithuania and Sweden, so that I can focus on Munster and then Austria. Worked out pretty nicely and at some point, I got whole middle and parts of western europe(Holland etc) not occupied by France. Then I proceeded to drive Austria out of europe and at the end, pushed into Italy(had to declare wars without reason; even with that national idea which should allow me to do so since their type of government was different(it actually didn't work for any nation, not even Japan or some african countries)). The HRE had only 5 countries left and 4 out of these only had a presence via colonies. My technology was also far superior, even second ranked France was orange in comparison. What helped me greatly throughout the game...the cardinals, they reduce your infamy so much. Towards the end, I controlled more than half of them.
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Revolution and Counter-Revolution has always worked fine for me. Keep in mind it only allows you to declare war on different categories of government (ie republics can declare war on monarchies and vice versa), not different subtypes (for example despotic monarchy vs feudal monarchy),
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Teutonic Order is...uh, Theocracy. Shouldn't that work? I had pretty much all the possible reasons: Heretics, Nationalism, different type of government; but for pretty much every country, those didn't work.
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On August 22 2011 02:16 Lucumo wrote:
Are you sure you aren't using a mod or something? Your stability should be -3(obviously), your income should be extremely low and there should be many more revolts. When I got 64 infamy as Fujiwara, I got bad events every month and rebels as well...and I had only a few provinces, not this many.
-3 stab is just 6 revolt risk, the 18+ and rising revolt risk i get from my WE is by far my biggest problem
i took bill of rights and humanist tolerance and the religious option to help reduce revolt risk, i dont think it helped much though
income is still positive with minting, have to build lots of boats to keep up with tariffs though and they are slow and expensive. i still have the option to raise war taxes, i dont think my WE is going to get any better in a long while anyway
tech is basically stopped at this point, but once europe is conquered tech doesnt matter
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On August 22 2011 08:38 poor newb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 02:16 Lucumo wrote:
Are you sure you aren't using a mod or something? Your stability should be -3(obviously), your income should be extremely low and there should be many more revolts. When I got 64 infamy as Fujiwara, I got bad events every month and rebels as well...and I had only a few provinces, not this many. -3 stab is just 6 revolt risk, the 18+ and rising revolt risk i get from my WE is by far my biggest problem i took bill of rights and humanist tolerance and the religious option to help reduce revolt risk, i dont think it helped much though income is still positive with minting, have to build lots of boats to keep up with tariffs though and they are slow and expensive. i still have the option to raise war taxes, i dont think my WE is going to get any better in a long while anyway tech is basically stopped at this point, but once europe is conquered tech doesnt matter
you could always go towards serfdom to reduce max WE.
I've got pretty much as much as you do at this point in the game, but no infamy and no WE 
I started out as England in 1420 when you have a couple of provinces in france and you're engaged in a war to take the thrown together with burgundy. If you manage to break France you are basically unstoppable military wise with them under you in a personal union.
Then I focus on Europe, and got Austria, Bohemia, a fairly large ´Brandenburg in a personal union around the 1550 mark after becoming the emperor.
Now at 1650 I've waited for ages for Spain, Portugal and Savoy to get weak heirs so I can claim throne on them, but instead I just went with forged documents with Spain and Savoy. These dudes together have basically all of America and a pretty big chunk of Africa as well.
The only bad part is that when you kill off their armies, they have problems keeping their lands from revolting due to high war exhaustion, no money and no army so it ususally fractions a little so you've gotta help them out.
Claiming thrones is in my experience the most efficient way to take huge areas.
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I am currently Fujiwara in 1580. I decided to have a more peaceful, less WC rararara game, because, well, I'm thinking of turning the game into Vicky just because of how interesting Europe is atm (read: Hansa, Genoa, Byzantium, and Venice destroying everybody, Castille almost kicked out of Europe, Novgorod not giving a shit about anything and slowly colonizing deeper into Asia).
I started by unioning with Taira, getting their army to beat the shit out of the other two (so I vassalized them), inheriting Taira, diplo-annexing the rest by 1490. But then I realized that as the Shogun I could go to war with anybody I wanted and Japan itself would get the infamy, not me. So I proceed to take Brunei, Makassar, a bit of Manchu, Majapharr, and am working on Korea right now.
But my real goal this game was to become a colonial empire. So my first two ideas were Colonial Ventures and Quest for the New World. This ended up turning my tech to shit (but I just finished Westernizing, hurray) because i ended up colonizing anything I could lay my hands upon, and because nobody has a navy to speak of my 50% forcelimit reduction was moot. At the moment, Fujiwara (not unifying Japan b/c lulz) controls everything in a line from Siberia to New Zealand. And I mean everything. Including all the shit islands. Spice must flow, etc.
However, attacking Ming would be a bad idea right now. My land tech is total crap because i put everything into trade and government, and on top of that Ming is allied to Rajputana (which has conquered the ENTIRE South Asian pennisula, aside from Malacca which has taken Aceh), as well as Vayjanegar (which has pretty much united India). So right now going to war is a bad idea, both due to the fact that I have troops and ships scattered all across my colonial empire putting down revolts (sponsored by Japan, no less) and the fact that my stability is still recovering from the last westernization. Also I am still using tech 1 cavalry and infantry and my military tradition is in the shitter. So yeah no war until I finish military modernization.
In the meantime, I'm pouring my vast income (200+ atm) into Naval research, so I can start colonizing America. Also, I'm "accidentally" not suppressing the Catholic rebels. After that, who knows? A Fujiwarian American Revolution? Holy Roman Empire? Papal Controller?
p.s. not uniting Japan, the Emperor can stew in his damn castle. Its what he gets for starting up two revolts in Kurile Islands AND New Zealand at the same time.
p.p.s. turned off inflation this game because it will be fucking impossible to deal with the insane amount of colonial upkeep I am accumulating otherwise
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On August 22 2011 23:04 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 08:38 poor newb wrote:On August 22 2011 02:16 Lucumo wrote:
Are you sure you aren't using a mod or something? Your stability should be -3(obviously), your income should be extremely low and there should be many more revolts. When I got 64 infamy as Fujiwara, I got bad events every month and rebels as well...and I had only a few provinces, not this many. -3 stab is just 6 revolt risk, the 18+ and rising revolt risk i get from my WE is by far my biggest problem i took bill of rights and humanist tolerance and the religious option to help reduce revolt risk, i dont think it helped much though income is still positive with minting, have to build lots of boats to keep up with tariffs though and they are slow and expensive. i still have the option to raise war taxes, i dont think my WE is going to get any better in a long while anyway tech is basically stopped at this point, but once europe is conquered tech doesnt matter you could always go towards serfdom to reduce max WE. I've got pretty much as much as you do at this point in the game, but no infamy and no WE I started out as England in 1420 when you have a couple of provinces in france and you're engaged in a war to take the thrown together with burgundy. If you manage to break France you are basically unstoppable military wise with them under you in a personal union. Then I focus on Europe, and got Austria, Bohemia, a fairly large ´Brandenburg in a personal union around the 1550 mark after becoming the emperor. Now at 1650 I've waited for ages for Spain, Portugal and Savoy to get weak heirs so I can claim throne on them, but instead I just went with forged documents with Spain and Savoy. These dudes together have basically all of America and a pretty big chunk of Africa as well. The only bad part is that when you kill off their armies, they have problems keeping their lands from revolting due to high war exhaustion, no money and no army so it ususally fractions a little so you've gotta help them out. Claiming thrones is in my experience the most efficient way to take huge areas.
A WC with a european major is not comparable to a WC as ryukyu. You're animist so you can't really PU anyone, have almost no aligned provinces, awful modifiers, you start as 1 terrible province with a terrible tech group "surrounded" by countries who might as well be superpowers compared to you.
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Questions (i still play switzerland):
Should i change to "Empire"? It costs 3 stability and does not seem to do much (iirc i'm a despotic monarchie atm).
To boost my income I build "production" buildings like mad since i don't know how many years and it's still rather underwhelming? I can't go back to be a trading nation now and don't really have money problems... But the monthly income just does not seem high compared to other games i had where i was way smaller.
What is there to do to get serious income? I'm thinking about getting a big fleet but would need to invest seriously becaues it's allready late 15XX (near 16XX) and i never had a Ship :p.
Should i form Germany asap? (that would make the decision of expanding more towards the HRE easyer).
How much stronger do i actually need to be to "force Annex" something... I'm at over 30 provinces and it's still "highly unlikely" even for REALLY long time Vassals...).
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On August 23 2011 17:09 Velr wrote:
Questions (i still play switzerland):
Should i change to "Empire"? It costs 3 stability and does not seem to do much (iirc i'm a despotic monarchie atm).
To boost my income I build "production" buildings like mad since i don't know how many years and it's still rather underwhelming? I can't go back to be a trading nation now and don't really have money problems... But the monthly income just does not seem high compared to other games i had where i was way smaller.
What is there to do to get serious income? I'm thinking about getting a big fleet but would need to invest seriously becaues it's allready late 15XX (near 16XX) and i never had a Ship :p.
Should i form Germany asap? (that would make the decision of expanding more towards the HRE easyer).
How much stronger do i actually need to be to "force Annex" something... I'm at over 30 provinces and it's still "highly unlikely" even for REALLY long time Vassals...).
If the benefits of empire is small don't do it, it doesn't do anything fancy besides what the stats says.
As for income you can't really do anything other than build a manufactory evertime you have the money and build the tax buildings in every province that is not poor. The advanced buildings you get +50% tax for tier 1 and +5 base tax for tier 2, which helps alot. Building a strong economy takes time especially if you have too high infamy for trading, but it is very much possible to get it going, just keep saving or lending money for a manufactory once in a while, while you keep building economy based buildings.
If you have casus belli on some minor nation you can also declare war just to raise war taxes for a while, it does hurt war exhaustion though.
I havn't really had the patience to grow super big, but I had an annual income of 1.3k ducats with Great Britan and French territories where the majority was production and tax based income.
As for annexing vassals just do it if you meet the requirements regardless of what it says about the probability, I have never had it fail. You do get some infamy and stability drop though.
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Empire is a good type of government.
The reason is that it have better, less restricted policy slides and Empire government is on the road to Nobel Republic etc
The + to discipline ain't bad either
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I wish I could get this game I loved playing hearts of iron 3
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On August 23 2011 18:02 Ramong wrote:Empire is a good type of government. The reason is that it have better, less restricted policy slides and Empire government is on the road to Nobel Republic etc The + to discipline ain't bad either
empire is not needed for noble republic. You can go there straight from the Despotic Monarchy
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On August 23 2011 17:35 Casta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 17:09 Velr wrote:
Questions (i still play switzerland):
Should i change to "Empire"? It costs 3 stability and does not seem to do much (iirc i'm a despotic monarchie atm).
To boost my income I build "production" buildings like mad since i don't know how many years and it's still rather underwhelming? I can't go back to be a trading nation now and don't really have money problems... But the monthly income just does not seem high compared to other games i had where i was way smaller.
What is there to do to get serious income? I'm thinking about getting a big fleet but would need to invest seriously becaues it's allready late 15XX (near 16XX) and i never had a Ship :p.
Should i form Germany asap? (that would make the decision of expanding more towards the HRE easyer).
How much stronger do i actually need to be to "force Annex" something... I'm at over 30 provinces and it's still "highly unlikely" even for REALLY long time Vassals...). If the benefits of empire is small don't do it, it doesn't do anything fancy besides what the stats says. As for income you can't really do anything other than build a manufactory evertime you have the money and build the tax buildings in every province that is not poor. The advanced buildings you get +50% tax for tier 1 and +5 base tax for tier 2, which helps alot. Building a strong economy takes time especially if you have too high infamy for trading, but it is very much possible to get it going, just keep saving or lending money for a manufactory once in a while, while you keep building economy based buildings. If you have casus belli on some minor nation you can also declare war just to raise war taxes for a while, it does hurt war exhaustion though. I havn't really had the patience to grow super big, but I had an annual income of 1.3k ducats with Great Britan and French territories where the majority was production and tax based income. As for annexing vassals just do it if you meet the requirements regardless of what it says about the probability, I have never had it fail. You do get some infamy and stability drop though.
Thanks for your answers
Thats actually what ive been doing for like the last 20 years (+stabily/spydefense stuff for new provinces) -.-... Production tab... Sort after Production (or Tax income) and just "build, build, build". The only limiting factors are the numbers of Magistrates i get (which seems low).
My Vassals seem not as nice as yours, they happily decline... And also like to have heirs  . Basterds, let's go to war (or reload bonanza if i feel like it ^^) :p.
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Started playing as Golden Horde for a bit but it's kinda lame. At first I was baffled that you can't annex provinces but apparently, it can happen automatically. So I was happy enough until I noticed that their last province won't. So, eventually, you have to vassalize them and force tributes. In the first war, I pretty much owned everyone but it's kind of annoying that you auto-start wars. Like, I discovered Bavaria who are far away and immediately declared war. What's the purpose of this? I can't even reach them. I took a province of Hungary, took some from Muscovy and the other nation and completely destroyed Lithuania. The Teutonic Order also declared war on them after a while and took three or so as well. Not sure how many they have left, maybe three, can't even see them anyway. Still, the auto-declaring of war is so annoying. I don't want to fight the Ottomans or Hungary at the moment because they are pretty strong. But if I concede defeat, I lose a lot of legitimacy which in turn spawns revolts everywhere. I have enough money at the moment(~1000) even though it's only 143X right now. Still, it's too annoying to really continue. I wouldn't mind it without war exhaustion but like this, it's stupid :<
No wonder the Golden Horde gets always destroyed in every game.
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On August 23 2011 22:07 Lucumo wrote:
Started playing as Golden Horde for a bit but it's kinda lame. At first I was baffled that you can't annex provinces but apparently, it can happen automatically. So I was happy enough until I noticed that their last province won't. So, eventually, you have to vassalize them and force tributes. In the first war, I pretty much owned everyone but it's kind of annoying that you auto-start wars. Like, I discovered Bavaria who are far away and immediately declared war. What's the purpose of this? I can't even reach them. I took a province of Hungary, took some from Muscovy and the other nation and completely destroyed Lithuania. The Teutonic Order also declared war on them after a while and took three or so as well. Not sure how many they have left, maybe three, can't even see them anyway. Still, the auto-declaring of war is so annoying. I don't want to fight the Ottomans or Hungary at the moment because they are pretty strong. But if I concede defeat, I lose a lot of legitimacy which in turn spawns revolts everywhere. I have enough money at the moment(~1000) even though it's only 143X right now. Still, it's too annoying to really continue. I wouldn't mind it without war exhaustion but like this, it's stupid :<
No wonder the Golden Horde gets always destroyed in every game.
the idea is you have to change your government so that you stop running around headlessly and settle down iirc
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On August 23 2011 22:07 Lucumo wrote:
Started playing as Golden Horde for a bit but it's kinda lame. At first I was baffled that you can't annex provinces but apparently, it can happen automatically. So I was happy enough until I noticed that their last province won't. So, eventually, you have to vassalize them and force tributes. In the first war, I pretty much owned everyone but it's kind of annoying that you auto-start wars. Like, I discovered Bavaria who are far away and immediately declared war. What's the purpose of this? I can't even reach them. I took a province of Hungary, took some from Muscovy and the other nation and completely destroyed Lithuania. The Teutonic Order also declared war on them after a while and took three or so as well. Not sure how many they have left, maybe three, can't even see them anyway. Still, the auto-declaring of war is so annoying. I don't want to fight the Ottomans or Hungary at the moment because they are pretty strong. But if I concede defeat, I lose a lot of legitimacy which in turn spawns revolts everywhere. I have enough money at the moment(~1000) even though it's only 143X right now. Still, it's too annoying to really continue. I wouldn't mind it without war exhaustion but like this, it's stupid :<
No wonder the Golden Horde gets always destroyed in every game.
The game shouldn't make you declare war on anyone you aren't touching (and automatically force peace if somehow you end up at war). Also, you can definitely annex the capital of a country; notice how countries like Moldavia, Wallachia, and Ryazan get completely eaten by the GH in almost every game.
Playing a horde is all about managing who you actually attack, forcing tribute from everyone else (so you only ever have to fight them once, and getting out of being a horde while the going is good. For example, if you don't want to fight the Ottomans then not annexing Moldavia and/or Georgia means you can avoid that.
Your best bet is probably to spend your early years forcing tribute from everyone in the west while eating up Lithuania and the Russian provinces. When you core the right provinces from Russia you can move your capital to an appropriate province, culture shift, and form Russia, which can definitely be a nasty process but it's better than nothing. I agree that playing hordes is rather frustrating though and personally avoid them (especially in multiplayer, where they're insanely overpowered at the start of the game and useless shortly thereafter).
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hEIaP.jpg)
im in purple
not to be confused with byzantium purple
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On August 24 2011 11:31 Pewt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 22:07 Lucumo wrote:
Started playing as Golden Horde for a bit but it's kinda lame. At first I was baffled that you can't annex provinces but apparently, it can happen automatically. So I was happy enough until I noticed that their last province won't. So, eventually, you have to vassalize them and force tributes. In the first war, I pretty much owned everyone but it's kind of annoying that you auto-start wars. Like, I discovered Bavaria who are far away and immediately declared war. What's the purpose of this? I can't even reach them. I took a province of Hungary, took some from Muscovy and the other nation and completely destroyed Lithuania. The Teutonic Order also declared war on them after a while and took three or so as well. Not sure how many they have left, maybe three, can't even see them anyway. Still, the auto-declaring of war is so annoying. I don't want to fight the Ottomans or Hungary at the moment because they are pretty strong. But if I concede defeat, I lose a lot of legitimacy which in turn spawns revolts everywhere. I have enough money at the moment(~1000) even though it's only 143X right now. Still, it's too annoying to really continue. I wouldn't mind it without war exhaustion but like this, it's stupid :<
No wonder the Golden Horde gets always destroyed in every game. The game shouldn't make you declare war on anyone you aren't touching (and automatically force peace if somehow you end up at war). Also, you can definitely annex the capital of a country; notice how countries like Moldavia, Wallachia, and Ryazan get completely eaten by the GH in almost every game. Playing a horde is all about managing who you actually attack, forcing tribute from everyone else (so you only ever have to fight them once, and getting out of being a horde while the going is good. For example, if you don't want to fight the Ottomans then not annexing Moldavia and/or Georgia means you can avoid that.
Well, that is what's happening though. Dunno why, it's just the case. You can't annex normally with the Golden Horde and waiting doesn't work. When those countries get eaten up by them, they were probably annexed by a bigger country beforehand.
You actually have to attack them (and win), otherwise your legitimacy will drop. Accepting defeat 2-3 times will cripple your country a lot and it's pretty much impossible to fight Lithuania, Poland, Hungary and Ottomans at the same time, especially when you are their sole enemy. And declaring white peace is not possible. So you either win or lose.
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has to be a bug in your game. When I played GH getting every part of a country worked fine.
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EPT
