EPTMass Effect 3 - Page 134
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Harrad
1003 Posts
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Harrad
1003 Posts
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procyonlotor
Italy473 Posts
On March 24 2012 08:10 Latham wrote: I think the suicide mission and the miracle weapon are both cheap plots. Sure it was fun assigning the roles to people in ME2 but at that point you were already so prepared you were almost guaranteed a full extraction. There was no sense of danger, no thrill of the unknown. It did work however, for ME2. ME3 superweapon is just so overused =/. All-powerful Gods return and find you unworthy. Your only chance of survival is a:
How about some good old ass-wooping? The reapers shouldn't be gods. They should be defeatable by the current races of the universe UNITED. Previously they fucked over everyone by striking in force, fast and with the universe unprepared, divided and isolated. How did they beat the Protheans? Killed the ruling caste on the citadel and then cut off individual star systems exterminating them 1 by 1. I'm OK with getting some weapons armor upgrades tech etc. that has been long lost from a far more advanced civilization that lived before, but not a goddamn I-WIN button. Makes it feel a little less cheated. Yeah, they really shot themselves in the foot when they turned the Reapers into basically Sauron. It's the kind of situation you can only get yourself out of with a gimmick like the Crucible. It's a cool idea to have this artifact that's been worked on collectively by all the civilizations of the galaxy, but it shouldn't be a deus ex machina. I knew right from the beginning that the only way to beat the Reapers was to discover some kind of ancient secret weapon or technology, but I imagined it was going to be some relic belonging to the civilization that created the Reapers, so that the Alliance would have to incorporate that tech into their fleets, and the more war assets you gathered the more you were able to retrofit your ships with weapons that were able to penetrate reaper shields and all that jazz. It would give your EMS some real meaning instead of making it just a number - rather than the sum of your decisions - that decides whether you pass the threshold of survival. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
On March 24 2012 08:38 Harrad wrote: I believe the Mass Effect trilogy is massively (tehe) overrated. Sure Mass Effect 1 was great, I love it and think its by far the best of the three, but 2 and 3 werent like phenomenal games, not even great, just good games with arguably weak and cheesy story lines and concepts (like deus ex machina). they are overrated, but saying they arnt great games is fucking ridiculous, presentation / graphics / animation / writing / gameplay are all really good when it comes to videogames. | ||
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Firepaw292
Canada126 Posts
On March 24 2012 08:38 Harrad wrote: I believe the Mass Effect trilogy is massively (tehe) overrated. Sure Mass Effect 1 was great, I love it and think its by far the best of the three, but 2 and 3 werent like phenomenal games, not even great, just good games with arguably weak and cheesy story lines and concepts (like deus ex machina). That's crazy. I think the series is one of the best video game trilogies like ever made. And after ME1 I think it only improved all the way. I never liked the heating up on weapons and just the combat in general. Shepard also sounded kind of cheesy to stuff and I think his responses are much better now. The way the romances were in ME1 were the best though I think. To each his own I guess. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On March 24 2012 08:45 procyonlotor wrote: Yeah, they really shot themselves in the foot when they turned the Reapers into basically Sauron. It's the kind of situation you can only get yourself out of with a gimmick like the Crucible. It's a cool idea to have this artifact that's been worked on collectively by all the civilizations of the galaxy, but it shouldn't be a deus ex machina. I knew right from the beginning that the only way to beat the Reapers was to discover some kind of ancient secret weapon or technology, but I imagined it was going to be some relic belonging to the civilization that created the Reapers, so that the Alliance would have to incorporate that tech into their fleets, and the more war assets you gathered the more you were able to retrofit your ships with weapons that were able to penetrate reaper shields and all that jazz. It would give your EMS some real meaning instead of making it just a number - rather than the sum of your decisions - that decides whether you pass the threshold of survival. I had the same thought. I thought Mass Effect 3 would be more about stonewalling the Reapers through raiding actions and alliances, while simultaneously digging up blueprints and technology extinct races used to combat the Reapers. Some missions involving stealing Reaper tech would have been nice, too. Sample mission: Raiding a Reaper processing center in order to update the Reaper IFF signal we got in Mass Effect 2, then distributing the information to the rest of the fleet right before the strike on Earth. Just to troll Reaper sensors at long and short ranges. It would still have cumulated with a joint strike on the Reaper force on Earth, but more of the Suicide Mission style, with you partially directing your collected war assets. Off-topic: I would have loved to see krogans riding extinct dinosaurs into battle. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 24 2012 08:59 Firepaw292 wrote: That's crazy. I think the series is one of the best video game trilogies like ever made. And after ME1 I think it only improved all the way. I never liked the heating up on weapons and just the combat in general. Shepard also sounded kind of cheesy to stuff and I think his responses are much better now. The way the romances were in ME1 were the best though I think. To each his own I guess. ive only played me3, can you compare and contrast from me1? i found the whole romance thing in me3 quite shallow really. give paragon responses to everything they say and then turn down everyone else = romance. then they treat you the same in every conversation afterwards, and only come back to your room on the night before the final mission. i really wish you could have real relationships (not just romances) with your crew, invite them up whenever you want to chat or do whatever, the comms girl likes chess, and then more things like shooting with garrus. except actually playing a shooting mini game rather than just making a choice whether to beat him or not in the game. so much potential  On March 24 2012 09:01 acker wrote: I had the same thought. I thought Mass Effect 3 would be more about stonewalling the Reapers through raiding actions and alliances, while simultaneously digging up blueprints and technology extinct races used to combat the Reapers. Some missions involving stealing Reaper tech would have been nice, too. Sample mission: Raiding a Reaper processing center in order to update the Reaper IFF signal we got in Mass Effect 2, then distributing the information to the rest of the fleet right before the strike on Earth. Just to troll Reaper sensors at long and short ranges. It would still have cumulated with a joint strike on the Reaper force on Earth, but more of the Suicide Mission style, with you partially directing your collected war assets. Off-topic: I would have loved to see krogans riding extinct dinosaurs into battle. they constantly mention how close the protheons got to defeating the reapers, and how the reapers previously only won so easily is because of their ability to divide and conquer by making the whole galaxy reliant on the mass effect relays. with this cycles knowledge of these 2 facts it doesnt actually make sense that the reapers are so powerful. the previous story doesnt require the godlike status they have. they could be technologically equal (or slightly ahead) and purely tricking the galaxy into the mass effect crutch giving them a huge tactical edge. then the game could really be a huge conflict, spreading protheon upgrades discovered to each race around, and convincing them to join you, or leaving them to die to the reapers alone if you want. this would make the final stand off at earth relatable to the galactic strength. the stronger you are the less forces dedicated to protecting the earth force (they could easily think of a reason for earth to be important). it could be a personal challenge to complete the last level with lower strength, increasing replay value beyond changing difficulty and choices. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On March 24 2012 09:01 acker wrote: I had the same thought. I thought Mass Effect 3 would be more about stonewalling the Reapers through raiding actions and alliances, while simultaneously digging up blueprints and technology extinct races used to combat the Reapers. Some missions involving stealing Reaper tech would have been nice, too. Sample mission: Raiding a Reaper processing center in order to update the Reaper IFF signal we got in Mass Effect 2, then distributing the information to the rest of the fleet right before the strike on Earth. Just to troll Reaper sensors at long and short ranges. It would still have cumulated with a joint strike on the Reaper force on Earth, but more of the Suicide Mission style, with you partially directing your collected war assets. Off-topic: I would have loved to see krogans riding extinct dinosaurs into battle. krogans riding elcors! | ||
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procyonlotor
Italy473 Posts
You kidding me? Volus biotic artillery riding Elcor berserkers. The ultimate weapon of war. | ||
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Harrad
1003 Posts
On March 24 2012 09:36 turdburgler wrote: ive only played me3, can you compare and contrast from me1? i found the whole romance thing in me3 quite shallow really. give paragon responses to everything they say and then turn down everyone else = romance. then they treat you the same in every conversation afterwards, and only come back to your room on the night before the final mission. i really wish you could have real relationships (not just romances) with your crew, invite them up whenever you want to chat or do whatever, the comms girl likes chess, and then more things like shooting with garrus. except actually playing a shooting mini game rather than just making a choice whether to beat him or not in the game. so much potential I would be lying if I said ME1 romances weren't shallow but they did feel more satisfying and substantial. I played ME3 having romanced Liara in ME1 and no one in ME2, so I dont know how romances play out if you start on a clean slate in ME3. Overall if ME3 has turned you into a fan, I'd highly recommend you to play ME1. It has a good, well paced story (and an ending that is actually satisfying). The combat is horrible though, but that was never supposed to be the strength of the games anyway. ME1 is definitely a technically weaker game but, I dont know, it has "heart" and charm, something that to me felt amiss in the second and third part. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 24 2012 09:47 procyonlotor wrote: You kidding me? Volus biotic artillery riding Elcor berserkers. The ultimate weapon of war. "I am a Biotic God! Fear me! Great Wind!" "Agreeably, he is a biotic god, fear him." | ||
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erin[go]bragh
United States815 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Overall though, I feel like the plot problems can be simply attributed to one thing- the ME crew spent 2 games building up the Reapers. And at the start of ME3, they realized they wrote themselves into a corner. Instead of putting on their try hard pants and writing their way back out of it, they got lazy and took the easy route. Super powerful dreadnoughts that cant be conventionally beaten? Alien super weapon that destroys super powerful dreadnoughts! Okay, now we need someone for Shepard to fight who isn't a Reaper... hmm... How about Cerberus? Yeah people know who they are! Well, they are more of some secret shadow organization that specializes in espionage and information... Ah who cares, lets make them into a military force and call it a day! Someone mentioned Cerberus earlier so I won't really get into them, but lets just say my suspension of disbelief was shattered several times throughout this game. Overall though, my #1 gripe with ME3 (minus the ending, of course) is: The Crucible! I've mentioned it in other ME3 threads, but I absolutely hate the entire idea of the Crucible. Within the first half hour, almost all the tension about defeating the reapers is technically removed by the knowledge that I can now build a super weapon to defeat them. I'll admit, finding a way to conventionally defeat the Reapers is probably damn hard to do. I wouldn't really mind the whole "super weapon" gag, but this was just done in such a lazy manner. First off, theres the fact that the thing exists at all. You're telling me this kind of technology was embedded in the Prothean archives? On Mars? The ones we've known about all along? Whats worse, even Shepard seems to realize this whole thing is bogus. "We've known about these archives for decades, why are we just finding out about this now?" he asks. Well, Liara? "Process of elimination, mixed with a little desperation!" Oh, okay. That makes sense. ....Wait what? What the fuck does that mean??? Let's get something straight here. The human race discovered faster-than-light travel by reverse engineering Prothean technology found on Mars. In fact, Prothean data of any kind is considered extremely valuable to the entire galactic community, to the point where galactic law states that any Prothean artifacts are considered property of the galactic community as a whole. Despite the fact that the Mass Relays and the Citadel were not Prothean creations, they were still much more advanced than us. (The entire reason we are still here to fight the Reapers at all, don't forget.) Now you're telling me the human discovery of the Prothean data on Mars went something like this... "Holy shit balls! Using this data, we can solve the problem of faster-than-light travel!!" "Wow, thats amazing! I wonder what else we can learn from this ancient, super advanced race!" "Who the fuck cares? Lets lock this place up and go explore the galaxy!" Oh, but we then dig up plans for a Reaper killing super weapon. Right when the Reapers invade Earth. Mmmm... Nice. More breaking of the suspension of disbelief. The Crucible, the super weapon that will destroy the Reapers, stays secret the entire game. ...Okay? I mentioned earlier the existence of the Crucible removes almost all the tension in the game. The only reason it didn't remove ALL of it is because I was fully expecting that the Reapers would, at some point, discover it and destroy it, thus forcing me to deal with them conventionally. And honestly, I was hoping that would happen. But it doesn't. This huge operation, the "biggest undertaking in humanity's history" goes off without a hitch. In Hackett's own fucking words, "we're throwing everyone who can hold a hammer at it!" What? Have we completely forgot about indoctrination? One of the Reaper's biggest threats isn't the Reapers themselves. It's what they do to you. It's explained in ME1 that one of the ways the Reapers systematically destroyed the Protheans was by sending sleeper agents into their holdouts who would then give away their positions. You're telling me that out of the thousands, possibly millions of people involved in building the Crucible, the location was never leaked? Anywhere? Not even to Cerberus, who seemed to know even the most minute and mundane details of everything that ever happened, even before you did? And, if I can chat about Cerberus for a second, another event that kind of ruined my suspension of disbelief: the invasion of the Citadel. You're telling me that a shadow organization like Cerberus manages to sneak an army onto the most secure space station in the galaxy and threatens the leaders of galactic civilization? Let's not forget, C-Sec aren't a bunch of mall cops, though they certainly seem like it in ME3. And what about the defense fleet thats always parked at the Citadel's front door?? Worse, Shepard, again, seems to notice this is a bunch of crap. He says something to the effect of "How did this happen? I thought the Citadel was supposed to be the safest place in the galaxy!" And Bailey responds with something like "It was, thats why we never expected this to happen!" Oh, okay. That makes sense. ....Wait what? What the fuck does that mean?!?! ARRRG MY GOD DAMN BRAIN. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On March 24 2012 10:03 Harrad wrote: I would be lying if I said ME1 romances weren't shallow but they did feel more satisfying and substantial. I played ME3 having romanced Liara in ME1 and no one in ME2, so I dont know how romances play out if you start on a clean slate in ME3. Overall if ME3 has turned you into a fan, I'd highly recommend you to play ME1. It has a good, well paced story (and an ending that is actually satisfying). The combat is horrible though, but that was never supposed to be the strength of the games anyway. ME1 is definitely a technically weaker game but, I dont know, it has "heart" and charm, something that to me felt amiss in the second and third part. Yeah ME 1 is great. But its really hard to get used to the controls when they have improved so much over the last 2 games. They are really ugly in ME 1 | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On March 24 2012 10:03 Harrad wrote: I would be lying if I said ME1 romances weren't shallow but they did feel more satisfying and substantial. I played ME3 having romanced Liara in ME1 and no one in ME2, so I dont know how romances play out if you start on a clean slate in ME3. Overall if ME3 has turned you into a fan, I'd highly recommend you to play ME1. It has a good, well paced story (and an ending that is actually satisfying). The combat is horrible though, but that was never supposed to be the strength of the games anyway. ME1 is definitely a technically weaker game but, I dont know, it has "heart" and charm, something that to me felt amiss in the second and third part. This. Personally I didn't mind the Liara romance (only one I've seen so far in ME3) and while he has a point in that outside of a few critical scenes they pretty much treat you like a normal person (a bit strange) I think there were a few, esp. toward the end, that were quite intimate/emotional. Probably just biased though. Try playing ME1 if you haven't. The combat is a bit brutal, especially after having played ME3 (at least you can appreciate how far it's come, I tried again before ME3 came out and didn't have the patience to refinish the whole story before release date) but overall the universe and story being built from the ground up is very fascinating and immersive. | ||
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
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MizarAlcor
United States21 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eMYVd.jpg) | ||
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xUnSeEnx
United States183 Posts
On March 24 2012 08:38 Harrad wrote: I believe the Mass Effect trilogy is massively (tehe) overrated. Sure Mass Effect 1 was great, I love it and think its by far the best of the three, but 2 and 3 werent like phenomenal games, not even great, just good games with arguably weak and cheesy story lines and concepts (like deus ex machina). A little off-topic but Deus Ex - Human Revolution was beyond amazing, so much so, that I think it is up there with Skyrim in terms of replay-ability and "RPG-like" concepts and story. Mass Effect 3 was the absolute biggest let-down, much like Dragon Age 2 (however I beat DA:2, 2 almost 3 times and I cannot even touch ME 3 anymore, which means I am probably going to sell it soon.) | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On March 24 2012 12:35 erin[go]bragh wrote: Since we're discussing the lameness of the super weapon idea, I might as well repost my rant about the Crucible I made in Buzzworth's ME3 blog. + Show Spoiler + Overall though, I feel like the plot problems can be simply attributed to one thing- the ME crew spent 2 games building up the Reapers. And at the start of ME3, they realized they wrote themselves into a corner. Instead of putting on their try hard pants and writing their way back out of it, they got lazy and took the easy route. Super powerful dreadnoughts that cant be conventionally beaten? Alien super weapon that destroys super powerful dreadnoughts! Okay, now we need someone for Shepard to fight who isn't a Reaper... hmm... How about Cerberus? Yeah people know who they are! Well, they are more of some secret shadow organization that specializes in espionage and information... Ah who cares, lets make them into a military force and call it a day! Someone mentioned Cerberus earlier so I won't really get into them, but lets just say my suspension of disbelief was shattered several times throughout this game. Overall though, my #1 gripe with ME3 (minus the ending, of course) is: The Crucible! I've mentioned it in other ME3 threads, but I absolutely hate the entire idea of the Crucible. Within the first half hour, almost all the tension about defeating the reapers is technically removed by the knowledge that I can now build a super weapon to defeat them. I'll admit, finding a way to conventionally defeat the Reapers is probably damn hard to do. I wouldn't really mind the whole "super weapon" gag, but this was just done in such a lazy manner. First off, theres the fact that the thing exists at all. You're telling me this kind of technology was embedded in the Prothean archives? On Mars? The ones we've known about all along? Whats worse, even Shepard seems to realize this whole thing is bogus. "We've known about these archives for decades, why are we just finding out about this now?" he asks. Well, Liara? "Process of elimination, mixed with a little desperation!" Oh, okay. That makes sense. ....Wait what? What the fuck does that mean??? Let's get something straight here. The human race discovered faster-than-light travel by reverse engineering Prothean technology found on Mars. In fact, Prothean data of any kind is considered extremely valuable to the entire galactic community, to the point where galactic law states that any Prothean artifacts are considered property of the galactic community as a whole. Despite the fact that the Mass Relays and the Citadel were not Prothean creations, they were still much more advanced than us. (The entire reason we are still here to fight the Reapers at all, don't forget.) Now you're telling me the human discovery of the Prothean data on Mars went something like this... "Holy shit balls! Using this data, we can solve the problem of faster-than-light travel!!" "Wow, thats amazing! I wonder what else we can learn from this ancient, super advanced race!" "Who the fuck cares? Lets lock this place up and go explore the galaxy!" Oh, but we then dig up plans for a Reaper killing super weapon. Right when the Reapers invade Earth. Mmmm... Nice. More breaking of the suspension of disbelief. The Crucible, the super weapon that will destroy the Reapers, stays secret the entire game. ...Okay? I mentioned earlier the existence of the Crucible removes almost all the tension in the game. The only reason it didn't remove ALL of it is because I was fully expecting that the Reapers would, at some point, discover it and destroy it, thus forcing me to deal with them conventionally. And honestly, I was hoping that would happen. But it doesn't. This huge operation, the "biggest undertaking in humanity's history" goes off without a hitch. In Hackett's own fucking words, "we're throwing everyone who can hold a hammer at it!" What? Have we completely forgot about indoctrination? One of the Reaper's biggest threats isn't the Reapers themselves. It's what they do to you. It's explained in ME1 that one of the ways the Reapers systematically destroyed the Protheans was by sending sleeper agents into their holdouts who would then give away their positions. You're telling me that out of the thousands, possibly millions of people involved in building the Crucible, the location was never leaked? Anywhere? Not even to Cerberus, who seemed to know even the most minute and mundane details of everything that ever happened, even before you did? And, if I can chat about Cerberus for a second, another event that kind of ruined my suspension of disbelief: the invasion of the Citadel. You're telling me that a shadow organization like Cerberus manages to sneak an army onto the most secure space station in the galaxy and threatens the leaders of galactic civilization? Let's not forget, C-Sec aren't a bunch of mall cops, though they certainly seem like it in ME3. And what about the defense fleet thats always parked at the Citadel's front door?? Worse, Shepard, again, seems to notice this is a bunch of crap. He says something to the effect of "How did this happen? I thought the Citadel was supposed to be the safest place in the galaxy!" And Bailey responds with something like "It was, thats why we never expected this to happen!" Oh, okay. That makes sense. ....Wait what? What the fuck does that mean?!?! ARRRG MY GOD DAMN BRAIN. If we are to accept the "indoctrination catch-all" theory, then the Reapers probably knew but wanted it to be completed (creating the only situation where they can be defeated...) so that they could trick Shepard later! Genius right! Bullshit. It is just more bad writing. Also, I def spent more time fighting Cerberus in this game than I did the Reapers. That isn't right. | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On March 24 2012 09:36 turdburgler wrote: ive only played me3, can you compare and contrast from me1? i found the whole romance thing in me3 quite shallow really. give paragon responses to everything they say and then turn down everyone else = romance. then they treat you the same in every conversation afterwards, and only come back to your room on the night before the final mission. i really wish you could have real relationships (not just romances) with your crew, invite them up whenever you want to chat or do whatever, the comms girl likes chess, and then more things like shooting with garrus. except actually playing a shooting mini game rather than just making a choice whether to beat him or not in the game. so much potential Honestly I feel they did relationships much better in ME3, especially inter-crew relationships. One of the big things I felt was lacking in the first 2 were that crew barely acknowledged each others existence, even when they were saving the galaxy together. There are some differences in dialog if you're in a relationship with a crew member, however I'll agree that it feels too easy to romance anyone. While I won't say I would want a mini-game to shoot with Garrus, I did enjoy those special interactions you could have with them. Granted some were much, much better than others. | ||
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