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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 07 2013 06:58 Judicator wrote:
Like I said, I am not familiar with the Modern scene and what cards are played, but the match up seems more problematic due to the tokens themselves and not so much the instant-speed removal, not sure how Affinity can fit through damage without exposing themselves to the aforementioned spot removal (not sure how many BW Tokens would play after board).
How's Arc Trail/Corrosive Gale over Whipflare?
They're not used in any deck afaik. I know Affinity decks typically run 2+ Whipflare in the sideboard though. I did see a top 16 PTQ that ran Electrickery fwiw.
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Arc trail looks inferior in every single way (I don't see the flexibility to blast the player being very useful) and the problem I see with corrosive gale is that it also wipes out ornithopter and vault skirge which is something I would like to avoid.
Something I'm a bit afraid about also is that I have zero experience playing against good midrange / control / combo decks.
Seems like my only game plan is to kill them as fast as I can and maybe add spellpierce post side...
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So, for those not following MTG's twitter account, they just put out words and things that make it seem like Slivers will be in M14, and not just normal slivers either.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KaKSn39.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uKA6EWU.jpg)
For those who don't know what that is, it's Sliver Queen, a card on the RESERVED LIST.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
I'm pretty sure it's just saying that it might be a useful card since they're printing more Sliver cards. They're not reprinting cards on the reserve list lol. You're just misinterpreting it.
There is this card however...
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On May 07 2013 07:23 MoonBear wrote:I'm pretty sure it's just saying that it might be a useful card since they're printing more Sliver cards. They're not reprinting cards on the reserve list lol. You're just misinterpreting it. There is this card however...
Normally I'd agree, but look at the top of the Sliver Queen image I linked' it's not the old style of gold bordering, nor does it look like the oversized Sliver Queen, it looks like a normal sized, gold bordered w/ modern styling bordering Sliver Queen.
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Shitty might sliver ahoy xD
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 07 2013 07:26 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 07:23 MoonBear wrote:I'm pretty sure it's just saying that it might be a useful card since they're printing more Sliver cards. They're not reprinting cards on the reserve list lol. You're just misinterpreting it. There is this card however... Normally I'd agree, but look at the top of the Sliver Queen image I linked' it's not the old style of gold bordering, nor does it look like the oversized Sliver Queen, it looks like a normal sized, gold bordered w/ modern styling bordering Sliver Queen.
They printed Sliver Queen in a modern border frame for Commander's Arsenal for one of the oversized card things. So it might be that. I am pretty sure Wizards is not breaking the Reserve List any time soon.
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On May 07 2013 07:43 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 07:26 Kinie wrote:On May 07 2013 07:23 MoonBear wrote:I'm pretty sure it's just saying that it might be a useful card since they're printing more Sliver cards. They're not reprinting cards on the reserve list lol. You're just misinterpreting it. There is this card however... Normally I'd agree, but look at the top of the Sliver Queen image I linked' it's not the old style of gold bordering, nor does it look like the oversized Sliver Queen, it looks like a normal sized, gold bordered w/ modern styling bordering Sliver Queen. They printed Sliver Queen in a modern border frame for Commander's Arsenal for one of the oversized card things. So it might be that. I am pretty sure Wizards is not breaking the Reserve List any time soon.
The sooner, the better.
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They can't unfortunately, there's legal implications for them if they do, thus it will never happen unless they find a solution which they'd announce.
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So it sounds like they won't re-print Sliver Queen, boo hoo. Honestly wish they'd just bite the bullet, burn the Reserved List, and just reprint all these cards already. Pretty sure they'd make infinitely more money off the reprints than the cost of the legal fees.
Also, for the love of god, can we NOT see Hexproof Sliver? Either that, or give us like 3-4 cheap sweeper effects in M14, like a reprint of Pyroclasm, a spell in black that gives -2/-2 to all dudes until EOT for 2B, or a sorcery speed Evacuation.
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I wouldn't mind a pyroclasm to go with my reckoners ;o
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On May 07 2013 08:04 Judicator wrote:
They can't unfortunately, there's legal implications for them if they do, thus it will never happen unless they find a solution which they'd announce.
seriously? Can you explain?
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On May 07 2013 08:04 Judicator wrote:
They can't unfortunately, there's legal implications for them if they do, thus it will never happen unless they find a solution which they'd announce.
Not really, there's no actual contract or agreement that precludes them from doing so, they just want to keep their collectors happy and the secondary market thriving. Bad for the game as a whole though.
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I mean if there's enough uproar, Wizards will have to do something like deth2munkies referred to. Right now Legacy is at least twice as harder as it was financially difficult to get into compared to just 2-3 years ago.
The problem is that the Reserved List is like this endgame money boss that has no easy solution. Legacy is more popular than ever and I doubt Wizards want to disturb that happy place. Dunno, but they do need to find a solution sometime soon if they want Legacy to keep growing not because of the card supply but rather the prices of the cards, it's like you watch the games and want to play, turn to the mana base and its like >.>
They might just use Modern as the "supported" eternal format and let Legacy run its course.
Also, Hexproof has been handled fairly well with the recent cards and the solutions to the mechanic itself. The problem with Hexproof was that it was in fucking BLUE where a narrow window of answers get more narrow in the presence of counterspells. Troll Ascetic, Dungrove Elder and Thrun weren't problems. It's the back up to Hexproof that was causing issues where games turn into not do you have Hexproofer to do you have Mana Leak. That said, Verdict, Flesh, Far/Away do a fairly good job at handling it for the decks that realistically cared about Hexproof; other archetypes had their own solutions to handling decks with Hexproof in it.
Edit:
On May 07 2013 09:04 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 08:04 Judicator wrote:
They can't unfortunately, there's legal implications for them if they do, thus it will never happen unless they find a solution which they'd announce. Not really, there's no actual contract or agreement that precludes them from doing so, they just want to keep their collectors happy and the secondary market thriving. Bad for the game as a whole though.
The implication is that by having a Reserve List they are guaranteeing the prices of the cards and the investments of those cards. It goes beyond the collectors, the secondary market for Legacy is built on the backs of stores/businesses, I would venture to say that they have a case for a lawsuit if collectors/businesses bought the cards under the notion of price stability and then to have Wizards go back on their word. The reason why there's legal implications is that the Reserve List has been around for too long and it functions as a promise to any collector and store owner of such cards at this point. Legally binding? Maybe/maybe not, but that won't and hasn't stopped lawsuits.
Ironically, the whole idea was well-intentioned, just that it should have been nipped in the bud a while back, but Wizards already met (albeit with a small group) and decided to keep it.
Edit 2:
Speculating some more, the meeting of select people with R&D ended up with RL being KEPT and not abolished. So with that regards, I would guess that lawsuits were definitely on the table simply because Wizards would rather not have a RL and had moved towards removing (read: neutering) the RL. Unfortunately, this also suggests that the RL serves for a small subset of the collector/business population at least at the time of deciding to keep the RL as opposed to abolishing it.
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Honestly, I'm fine with them going something like, "Ok, we're turning the Reserved List into nothing but cards that we recognize were stupidly broken overpowered and will never be reprinted again ever," and taking off like 95% of the stuff on it. For example, leave the Power 9 on there, along w/ some of the more broken things. The original duals might have to stay on as well, due to the prevelance of fetchlands and WotC hating land destruction cards, but if they had the Power 9 and a select handful of others on Reserved List, and the rest only printed in something like a FTV box or something like Legacy Masters (or whatever it's called on Modo) I'd be ok with that.
Edit:
But we don't know when it was that this RL meeting occured, we just know that it did happen.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 07 2013 09:36 Kinie wrote:
Honestly, I'm fine with them going something like, "Ok, we're turning the Reserved List into nothing but cards that we recognize were stupidly broken overpowered and will never be reprinted again ever," and taking off like 95% of the stuff on it. For example, leave the Power 9 on there, along w/ some of the more broken things. The original duals might have to stay on as well, due to the prevelance of fetchlands and WotC hating land destruction cards, but if they had the Power 9 and a select handful of others on Reserved List, and the rest only printed in something like a FTV box or something like Legacy Masters (or whatever it's called on Modo) I'd be ok with that.
Edit:
But we don't know when it was that this RL meeting occured, we just know that it did happen.
The problem is if you say "We're only printing duals that's all please believe us", since you've broken your word once then there's no reason for people to believe you won't break it again.
Wizards is being really conservative with Modern Masters itself so even if they wanted to I highly doubt they'd do much for Legacy reprints any ways. I mean, Jace TMS is worth more than a Tundra but Wizard isn't rushing to reprint that.
EDIT: That's not to say there are ways around the reserve list... but I doubt they'd take those routes either.
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It's hard to decide what goes on and off though, like take the Arabian Nights set, cards in there have jumped by considerable margins just in the past 3 years. I bought a City of Brass (many reprints) from that set like 3-4 years ago for like 5 bucks, now the card is 50 bucks even though it has direct reprints. The rest of the set isn't cheap either despite having very little impact on actual constructed play.
Edit:
@MoonBear
There's really no clean ways around the RL since they made the far-sighted claim of banning functional reprints and foil promos.
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United States2822 Posts
Three month period where "Cavern of Souls naming Sliver" is a legal play in Standard.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
@MoonBear
There's really no clean ways around the RL since they made the far-sighted claim of banning functional reprints and foil promos.
I remember them toying with the idea of snow duals but deciding against it because it was against the spirit of the Reserve List, despite complying with the letter of the Reserve List. That of course doesn't stop them from printing cards that could potentially be better or different enough to get around it (Trilands, semi-fetchable duals, reverse-Shocks, enter the battlefield untapped Gates, etc.) but at this point it'd basically be entering the realm of superseding the Reserve List with cards better than or equal to them.
So if they really set their mind to it, they could theoretically get around the Reserve List. But they probably won't. And that's probably for the better,
On May 07 2013 10:07 scintilliaSD wrote:
Three month period where "Cavern of Souls naming Sliver" is a legal play in Standard.
I smell a Day of Judgement reprint. Although Supreme Verdict also covers that hole.
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On May 07 2013 09:17 Judicator wrote:I mean if there's enough uproar, Wizards will have to do something like deth2munkies referred to. Right now Legacy is at least twice as harder as it was financially difficult to get into compared to just 2-3 years ago. The problem is that the Reserved List is like this endgame money boss that has no easy solution. Legacy is more popular than ever and I doubt Wizards want to disturb that happy place. Dunno, but they do need to find a solution sometime soon if they want Legacy to keep growing not because of the card supply but rather the prices of the cards, it's like you watch the games and want to play, turn to the mana base and its like >.> They might just use Modern as the "supported" eternal format and let Legacy run its course. Also, Hexproof has been handled fairly well with the recent cards and the solutions to the mechanic itself. The problem with Hexproof was that it was in fucking BLUE where a narrow window of answers get more narrow in the presence of counterspells. Troll Ascetic, Dungrove Elder and Thrun weren't problems. It's the back up to Hexproof that was causing issues where games turn into not do you have Hexproofer to do you have Mana Leak. That said, Verdict, Flesh, Far/Away do a fairly good job at handling it for the decks that realistically cared about Hexproof; other archetypes had their own solutions to handling decks with Hexproof in it. Edit: Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 09:04 deth2munkies wrote:On May 07 2013 08:04 Judicator wrote:
They can't unfortunately, there's legal implications for them if they do, thus it will never happen unless they find a solution which they'd announce. Not really, there's no actual contract or agreement that precludes them from doing so, they just want to keep their collectors happy and the secondary market thriving. Bad for the game as a whole though. The implication is that by having a Reserve List they are guaranteeing the prices of the cards and the investments of those cards. It goes beyond the collectors, the secondary market for Legacy is built on the backs of stores/businesses, I would venture to say that they have a case for a lawsuit if collectors/businesses bought the cards under the notion of price stability and then to have Wizards go back on their word. The reason why there's legal implications is that the Reserve List has been around for too long and it functions as a promise to any collector and store owner of such cards at this point. Legally binding? Maybe/maybe not, but that won't and hasn't stopped lawsuits. Ironically, the whole idea was well-intentioned, just that it should have been nipped in the bud a while back, but Wizards already met (albeit with a small group) and decided to keep it. Edit 2: Speculating some more, the meeting of select people with R&D ended up with RL being KEPT and not abolished. So with that regards, I would guess that lawsuits were definitely on the table simply because Wizards would rather not have a RL and had moved towards removing (read: neutering) the RL. Unfortunately, this also suggests that the RL serves for a small subset of the collector/business population at least at the time of deciding to keep the RL as opposed to abolishing it.
They can't guarantee prices and DO manipulate legacy both through publishing new cards that work extremely well with older ones and bumping the price and by banning cards in legacy. Add to that the fact that gouging on legacy staples is not the way that card shops make their money: standard staples, sleeves, sealed product, playmats, deckboxes, etc. are all much more profitable, I doubt that abolishing the reserve list will cause any shop to go out of business, and honestly might help if said card was in standard since they'd clear out all the overpriced shit they'd never ever actually sell.
I know for a fact a card shop in town has had a copy of each of the power 9 (and 3 Ancestral Recalls) and hasn't sold any of them in over 4 years. Anecdotally, both I and a couple of the guys that work there have only seen one instance of someone actually buying a dual land directly from the shop. If they were to go whole hog and reprint the entirety of the dual land cycle, the prices would drop down to maybe 1/10 of their normal, but they'd fly off the shelves instead of sitting there looking expensive.
All the reserve list does is punish people who were late to the party and keep people away from Magic in general and Legacy/Vintage in particular. I know exactly why it's there and exactly why it's not going away, but the boiling point is coming soon, hopefully.
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EPT
