EPTBut then again I play esper control xD
Magic: The Gathering - Page 367
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KtheZ
United States813 Posts
But then again I play esper control xD | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Turbo-Fog variants have been showing up every so often lately, mostly to trump Reanimator and not be a total dog to aggro. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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EMIYA
United States433 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:00 Audemed wrote: How exactly does turbofog trump reanimator? The way I see it, to stop reanimator you either need hardcore aggro, hardcore GY hate, or lots of blue to stop the rites or angel from going off. Not that I really know, but I would think that Fog is an ok answer to Craterhoof if you can wrath the board right after. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
It's not unloseable or anything, Rites can slime you into oblivion or Obzedat you or randomly Craterhoof you when you don't have a fog. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 04 2013 05:05 Audemed wrote: Eh, why don't I care about angel loops? Infinite mill combo is a legit wincon, I've been hit on turn 4 with it before. Mm. Well, it's not a bad deck and actually pretty sweet. You do have a bad match-up against a lot of decks though like I think Goblins, combo (High Tide, Omnitell) and stuff. I think Mono-white (Thalia) is probably also not too great for you. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
MCMc talks about junk rites (in standard), which uses Angel of Serenity to "loop" cards back from the graveyard. Audemed is talking about Angel of Glory's Rise combo, likely the standard version. MoonBear clearly has left the realm of standard (but is turn a turn 4 kill even worth mentioning in legacy?). | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Turn 4 is a pretty normal turn to combo kill somebody in Legacy! | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 04 2013 05:40 Judicator wrote: Awful lot of assumptions and not reading going on. I just skipped to the end of the thread and it made sense to me at the time lol On May 04 2013 05:40 MCMcEmcee wrote: Angel of Glory's Rise suffers substantially from graveyard hate and is considerably worse against aggro compared to Junk Rites. G1 win% is higher against control but good luck beating a Rest in Peace or Tormod's Crypt ever. Turn 4 is a pretty normal turn to combo kill somebody in Legacy! Pretty much. If you're all-in on the Graveyard you can get blown out pretty hard. Junk Rites has the advantage of being able to actually bet your face normally if it wants to. RiP-Helm combo in Legacy is more of an instant finisher than a strict combo per say since you're in a control shell rather than a combo one. | ||
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Loving Memory
United States70 Posts
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KtheZ
United States813 Posts
You actually have to collect cards and stuff to use them in MTGO, and events cost real money to play in. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 04 2013 07:28 Loving Memory wrote: So if I want to start playing MTGO, what do I have to download/buy? There's a ton of different MTGO games on steam, and I've no idea what to buy if I just want to start playing. :x MtG is not from Steam. You need to download it from Wizard's site itself. http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/magiconline The ones from Steam is Day of the Planeswalker (DotP) which is a stand-alone product designed for single player, and for newer players. It's very different from MtGO. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
I wanted to make a control deck that's cheap and can play vs pretty much every type of deck. It's fun and when it works it's hilarious (I won a game where at the end my opponent had nothing left on the table, lands and all, and I him him bring everything back to his hand + discard or sacrifice them all). Still, my win rate after using it a bunch is ~30%. I know the creature curve is pretty bad but any ideas what I can change to stay in the style of the deck and help me out? No expensive cards as I just can't afford them. Prefer standard cards but not oblig. + Show Spoiler + UB control/discard cipher Creatures : 4x Invisble Stalkers 3x Latch Seeker 4x Blizzard Specter Instants : 4x Vapor Snag 4x Mana Leak Sorcery : 4x Ponder 4x Mental Vapors 3x Hands of Binding 2x Stolen Identity 2x Undercity Plague Artifacts : 2x Dimir Keyrune Enchantments : 4x Soul Ransom Lands : 4x Dimir Guildgate 4x Drowned Catacombs 7 Islands 5 Swamps I can't afford the Watery Graves. One thing I thought about is going for Shadow Slice and other similar cards for more damage, but it kind of goes against the whole control deck thing, in which case I could just build a better aggro deck. I bolded those I think aren't absolutely necessary (although I would need to remove the discard element from my deck) | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 04 2013 10:57 Kurr wrote: Hey wondering if you guys can help me make this deck a bit more effective. I play with friends and we play semi-seriously (no super OP tournament decks, we try to stay more or less standard but some of the people we play with still use Urza, etc). I wanted to make a control deck that's cheap and can play vs pretty much every type of deck. It's fun and when it works it's hilarious (I won a game where at the end my opponent had nothing left on the table, lands and all, and I him him bring everything back to his hand + discard or sacrifice them all). Still, my win rate after using it a bunch is ~30%. I know the creature curve is pretty bad but any ideas what I can change to stay in the style of the deck and help me out? No expensive cards as I just can't afford them. Prefer standard cards but not oblig. + Show Spoiler + UB control/discard cipher Creatures : 4x Invisble Stalkers 3x Latch Seeker 4x Blizzard Specter Instants : 4x Vapor Snag 4x Mana Leak Sorcery : 4x Ponder 4x Mental Vapors 3x Hands of Binding 2x Stolen Identity 2x Undercity Plague Artifacts : 2x Dimir Keyrune Enchantments : 4x Soul Ransom Lands : 4x Dimir Guildgate 4x Drowned Catacombs 7 Islands 5 Swamps I can't afford the Watery Graves. One thing I thought about is going for Shadow Slice and other similar cards for more damage, but it kind of goes against the whole control deck thing, in which case I could just build a better aggro deck. You're pretty much playing some sort of UB Tempo deck. Some useful stuff you could try is perhaps putting in Delver of Secrets. You have a decent Instant/Sorcery count so it still trigger fairly often. Ponder also helps. I could cut the Stolen Identity and/or Undercity Plague. It's nice in theory but it's really mana intensive and you're running 20 lands + 2 mana artifacts. You're going to have trouble casting 6 mana spells with that kind of land count. And at that point you'd rather have something cheaper to cast that will help you. The Soul Ransom and Mental Vapors are probably also too expensive. 20 lands is a serious constraint to have. In replacement, you could try Think Twice, Thought Scour and Brainstorm for some card advantage/selection. Playing cards like Smother, Doom Blade and Disfigure would also be cheap, efficient removal that turns on Delver of Secrets. A versatile spell to have would also be Piracy Charm. At the same time, you could try using cards like Runechanter's Pike. It's a cheap equipment and with your instants and sorceries you can attach it to an unblockable or evasive guy and put some hurt down fast. Other equipment you might like include Banshee's Blade, Bonesplitter, Darksteel Axe and Butcher's Cleaver. Now, for you mana base. Some cheap mana fixing cards include Waterveil Cavern, Jwar Isle Refuge. For slightly more expensive options, there's Underground River, River of Tears, Tainted Isle, Darkslick Shores and Drowned Catacomb. If you want pseudo-fetchlands to go with Brainstorm and stuff to shuffle away the top of your library, you can try Bad River, Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse. In terms of cost, nearly everything I've listed is pretty cheap. Apart from the Brainstorms and the slightly more expensive duals, everything I've listed is pretty much $1 or less. In fact, the majority of them are less then 50c I think. Even the "expensive cards" are less than $5, average around $2. Hopefully that helps? | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
I might just remove the specters and put : Oona's Blackguard http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153099 Then just change my Latch Seekers for Deathcult Rogues. I'll change it around a bit as I do agree the Stolen Identities are overkill. Undercity Plague works pretty well for me most games though so I kind of want to keep it but I'll see. Finally, I'll find something cheap for blue or black that's the equivalent of fog or close enough for early aggro. Should have more survivability early game without taking too much damage until I can force them to discard their hand then either steal their creatures or Vapor Snag them to force them to discard after (or mana leak after). Going to try this version out, I think it will work out better than what I am using right now : + Show Spoiler + Creatures : 4x Oona's Blackguard 4x Invisible Stalkers 4x Riptide Pilferer Instants : 4x Vapor Snag 3x Mana Leak 3x Clutch of the Undercity Sorcery : 4x Ponder 4x Mental Vapors 4x Hands of Binding 2x Shadow Slice Enchantments : 4x Soul Ransom Lands : 4x Dimir Guildgate 4x Drowned Catacombs 2x Watery Grave 5x Islands 5x Swamps Still not 100% on the Riptides vs Deathcult but I think the mana cost difference and ability to make opponent discard even without Oona's trumps unblockable and 1 damage. Same reasoning with Clutch of the Undercity, I think the 3 damage on it trumps mana costs for Boomerang/Capsize | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Mulled to 5 on the draw, he keeps 7. My hand was Overgrown Tomb, Pilgrim, Rites, Thragtusk, Resto. Angel. I miss some land drops and eat damage in the early turns, and I finally am able to stick Thragtusk to start stabilizing the board. We continue to progress through the game, hitting land drops and smoothing out our colors, all the while I'm fighting to stay at a reasonable life total (fearing a miracled Bonfire will just end it). He rips a Terminus and uses it to wipe away a ground stall, before slamming down his own Angel of Serenity. The next 4 turns are us trading AoS, mine stealing his, his stealing mine, mine stealing his, his stealing mine, before I break the swapping with a Griselbrand, leaving mana up for Resto. Angel. He GW charms the demon and swings in, and I chump with the Angel. I GW charm his AoS and play another Thragtusk, forcing him to use the 2nd AoS in his hand to remove it. I use my 2nd AoS to finally swing the game in my favor. He proceeds to go Thragtusk, Garruk draw 5, land for turn and keep a full 7. At this point him and I both have like 13-15 mana available and I have two Vaults online. I get in one hit with an AoS + Vault activation before he GW charms it, and I flash in my 3nd Resto. on defense. I can't swing out for fear of him killing me on the swing back, and he can't swing into me because he's yet to draw a Kessig. I durdle around for some turns, getting in some choice Vault activations with my third Resto. Angel while he's already dealt with two of my AoS (one exiled from GW charm, another exiled under his AoS) to bring us back to semi-reasonable life totals (me at 21, him at 13). He untaps, draws for turn, and Mortars my third Resto., hitting me down to 16. I untap, play land for turn, and immediately play two mana dorks from my hand and pass. He draws and finally puts down the Kessig. He goes all in with it on the AoS, turning it into a 17/6 flying trampler. I flash in my 4th Resto. and Vault activation, keeping me barely alive at two life, but him tapped out. I untap, draw a shockland that I play tapped. I hardcast the Craterhoof I've been sandbagging for the past 8 turns, then dump the rest of my mana into the other card I've been sandbagging for 8 turns: Unburial Rites on Resto. Angel. I blink the Hoof again, and the mana dorks get double pumped and I swing in for the win. | ||
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