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Active Player - Non Active Player
Basically, if its my turn my stuff goes on the stack first and your stuff goes on the stack last (assuming the stuff was triggered at the same time). This means that your stuff resolves first.
Think of it like this:
I play huntmaster, pass the turn
You play huntmaster, pass the turn
On my turn, nobody plays a spell. I simply pass.
On your turn, BOTH huntmasters trigger at the same time. Due to APNAP, (you being the "active" player since its your turn), your trigger goes on the stack first. Then my trigger goes on the stack. Mine resolves first (since it is on top of the stack) so I get to kill your huntmaster with my trigger and yours never flips.
EDIT: MoonBear how can 2 people have the masticore discard trigger on the stack at the same time? o.O
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On April 18 2013 06:22 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 06:16 cLAN.Anax wrote:On April 18 2013 06:00 MoonBear wrote:On April 18 2013 05:50 cLAN.Anax wrote:On April 18 2013 05:45 spinesheath wrote:On April 18 2013 05:27 cLAN.Anax wrote:MoonBear the sanctioned judge of MTGO thread.  Thought Experiment 1: Compulsory Replacement Effects
Let's say Anna has a compulsory replacement effect in play that doesn't draw her more cards. So, something like Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar (TAF). During the first draw, the replacement effect triggers. Notion Thief does not trigger in either Scenario 1 or 2 because this first draw is due to game rules and it is the first draw of the draw step. TAF resolves. We move onto the second draw. At this point in both Scenario 1 and 2 the Notion Thief triggers at the same time as TAF. However according to 616.1, because both replacement effects are compulsory (aka the players don't make any choices), Anna as the affected player may choose which replacement effect to use. Therefore, she gets to use TAF's ability again if she wants regardless of how Notion Thief is worded.
That was boring. Huh. I'd've thought both would occur but Anna would get to choose which order they happened in. (not questioning what you're saying; that was just what I would have assumed initially) The card's rule text just seems very oddly worded, even for English-speakers. Takes a couple hard reads to fully understand.  Well, you can only replace something once, because it's gone after you replaced it the first time. So intuitively you wouldn't get both replacement effects. I suppose one could think of a replacement effect like a targeted ability where the target is the effect that is being replaced. Thus the second replacement effect to resolve will fizzle because the target is gone, it has been replaced. Just to make it clear: I have no idea if this actually is in line with the rules. That makes a lot more sense. I was trying to compare it in my mind with multiple "at your upkeep" effects, lol. Although maybe it works the same way there too?... For multiple triggers that occur at the same time such as Echo or Upkeep, you place them in APNAP order, and each player can choose what order to place them onto the stack. Then just resolve from the top of the stack as normal. Also, I'm not actually a judge haha. Although do plan on applying to be a L1 at some point in time. Need to get more familiar with IPG and a few technical rules before then. Thankfully Layers are in the L3 exam... You're judge enough for this thread. Judi basically gave you his seal of approval. It's official now, lol.  I'm sorry, what's "APNAP" mean? Active Player/Non-Active Player. Basically, when something affects more than one player at a time (such as triggers, multiple player discard spells, etc.) the Active Player (AP) must announce and make all decisions first, then the Non-Active Player (NAP) does so. For example, if Delirium Skeins is cast, the AP first chooses three cards and places them face down. The NAP then chooses three cards and puts them face down. Then both players reveal and place them into the Graveyard at the same time. Generally, players just throw cards out of their hands at their own leisure but technically you're under no obligation to reveal any information until all decisions are made, and the AP has to choose first. The same occurs for triggers during upkeep. For example, if both players control a Masticore, the AP places the trigger on the stack first, then the NAP. That means the NAP has to discard first as the stack resolves from the top.
So say I have Zedruu out, 2 permanents under opponents' control, and 2 life left. But Zedruu is also enchanted with Stab Wound. My upkeep rolls around. Would I be the the active player in this situation, and thus receive (or be able to choose to receive) the 2 extra cards and life before the NAP's Stab Wound hits?
If I am not, or I choose to let Stab Wound deal the 2 damage to me, would Zedruu's ability resolve on the stack before I died, or would I be dead?
Edit: Sno0_Man answered my question. Zedruu's ability would trigger before Stab Wound, but it doesn't look like I have the choice which happens first.
Edit 2: was wrong to assume Zedruu would trigger first. My bad. O_o
On April 18 2013 06:24 Sn0_Man wrote:
EDIT: MoonBear how can 2 people have the masticore discard trigger on the stack at the same time? o.O
Was wondering the same thing, lol....
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You are the active player. Your trigger goes on the stack first. That means it resolves LAST so you die.
Triggered abilities use the stack and while you get to choose which of YOURS go on the stack first they all resolve in whatever order they go on the stack.
Replacement abilities do not use the stack.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Oops. I thought Masticore was during each player's upkeep.
And let this be a lesson about reading the card carefully!
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On April 18 2013 06:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
You are the active player. Your trigger goes on the stack first. That means it resolves LAST so you die.
Triggered abilities use the stack and while you get to choose which of YOURS go on the stack first they all resolve in whatever order they go on the stack.
Replacement abilities do not use the stack.
:-C
I get it now.
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ANAP makes more sense (at least to me) in the terms of priority. Priority being the active turn player's right to play their spells first, or more specifically, the right of the turn player to put their
This makes sense since you would quickly get into a shouting match of ME FIRST for trying to cast spells on either players turn. Like turn player wants to play their sorcery speed spells/abilities first in the first main phase, the non-turn player can not preempt that play by casting an instant before the turn player can play their sorcery during that first main phase.
So priority is always for the turn player so the turn player's abilities would go on the stack first in an event when multiple things are happening at once (at the beginning of end step, upkeep, etc.). Then it would become a pretty straightforward order of stack resolution.
Fun stuff, rules, if any of you want to play eternal formats like Legacy or Modern, understanding stuff like this goes a long way.
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Can you play an instant on your opponents turn before they can untap any mana. Aka can I play a sphinxes after my turn but before they can have mana to counter if they are tapped out but after I would have to discard any cards over 7.
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No, no player has priority during untap, so you can't cast spells.
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Didn't see what Shotcoder wrote, but I am going to assume he's actually dumb (not really), and said something about waiting after discard happens.
It's a common mistake players do, discard is one of the last things to happen (if not the last) in a turn. I see it on MWS a fair amount where players discard before I can EoT an effect/spell. This is why you have to announce that you are intending to discard, especially in control mirrors, where you might want to cast something and thus avoiding the discard down to 7.
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On April 18 2013 08:04 Judicator wrote:
Didn't see what Shotcoder wrote, but I am going to assume he's actually dumb (not really), and said something about waiting after discard happens.
It's a common mistake players do, discard is one of the last things to happen (if not the last) in a turn. I see it on MWS a fair amount where players discard before I can EoT an effect/spell. This is why you have to announce that you are intending to discard, especially in control mirrors, where you might want to cast something and thus avoiding the discard down to 7.
I actually made a reference about Uptap step triggers but went back to reread rules after I made it.
Edit: Anyone here familiar with Modern? I have a few questions about deck building.
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I came in 9th at a PTQ recently in modern. Don't know if that qualifies me lol, but I can try to answer questions. I'm a much better pilot than deck builder, though.
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On April 18 2013 12:14 Risen wrote:
I came in 9th at a PTQ recently in modern. Don't know if that qualifies me lol, but I can try to answer questions. I'm a much better pilot than deck builder, though.
Alright awesome! I haven't touched the format since last summer or something. Has the meta shifted a lot? or is it relatively open?
I was looking at Sam Black's list from the Milwaukee Legacy(B/W Humans), Are there cards that provide the same effects in the modern card pool?
(Deck list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=54997 )
Using something like
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1-4 Lingering Souls
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thoughtseize
As a basis for a deck. The only thing I'm having issues finding is a card that gives pro colors like Mother of runes or Benevolent Bodyguard.
Would running something like this be stupid considering BW tokens is a list? I just don't know the format well enough so I'm kinda using your knowledge to understand deck building for the format. Like Standard and Legacy I grasp enough to have basic deck building around.
Random Question: What's with the high volume of Light and Shadows in Modern deck lists?
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Card reads as Protection from path and dismember/dblade/gftt. almost guaranteed to be out of bolt range with the +2/+2. Having said that I haven't seen the swords played much. I've seen batterskulls all over, though.
If you think the synergy beats out the potential CA tokens can provide (via forcing opponents to blow multiple removal spells on tokens, sweeps generally only being one for ones, etc), then I say go for it. You're going to have the same problems tokens has against combo lists, though, imo. Remember that modern is a t4 format. Your disruption will need to be strong.
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On April 18 2013 13:05 Risen wrote:
Card reads as Protection from path and dismember/dblade/gftt. almost guaranteed to be out of bolt range with the +2/+2. Having said that I haven't seen the swords played much. I've seen batterskulls all over, though.
If you think the synergy beats out the potential CA tokens can provide (via forcing opponents to blow multiple removal spells on tokens, sweeps generally only being one for ones, etc), then I say go for it. You're going to have the same problems tokens has against combo lists, though, imo. Remember that modern is a t4 format. Your disruption will need to be strong.
On the sword topic: They run it as a 1 of in a lot of decks and I don't see why you would run one without access to Stoneforge and no Steelshapers anywhere in the 75.
This is just an idea, I like sam black's stuff(ie I ran his zombie's list for legacy). My general idea is if something is strong enough in Legacy it should transfer to Modern effectively but I don't see card access in a protection spell like Mother of runes. Closest thing is like, Brave the elements or a fateful hour Faith's Shield. I'll play around with it, maybe you just need to be less forced with the combo in modern or something.
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Maybe you can look for something that would give protection from artifacts on top of pro-colors? It would have to be an older card because Wizards has moved away from that (being able to target any creature for pro-colors/artifacts).
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Swords are fine as a 1-of, random out to stuff/random free wins that you don't want to draw often. Much better in blue lists with a lot of cantrips/draw spells (or actual Steelshaper's Gift).
You can pull a page from the Infect/Nivmagus playbook and run Apostle's Blessing if you REALLY need pro-artifact.
I honestly don't think there's a good reason to play a BW humans list when BW tokens and/or soul sisters just seem like better synergistic-white-weenie decks. You aren't just missing Mom (though that's a major loss), you are also missing Therapy, Jitte, and Wasteland, and there really aren't good analogues for those cards in Modern.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Sword of Light and Shadow blocks Abrupt Decay, Path, Dismember, Sunlance, Oust, and the +2/+2 helps block Electrolyze, Bolt and Helix. Just be careful to not get Time Walked by Bolt when equipping. The creature recurrance is useful for some decks. If you're playing heavy aggro though I thonk WaP is better though. 1-of Swords are a nice mise thing to topdeck and break board stalls.
Also, I thought you couldn't design a more unplayable card than Teysa but Emmara Tandris is pretty bad.
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How do I host a match with more games than 1?
If this information exists somewhere on the client it is in the most inconvenient of places.
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on mtgo? Its on the menu when u click create game lol
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EPT
