Magic: The Gathering - Page 356

On April 18 2013 07:43 Trotske wrote:
Can you play an instant on your opponents turn before they can untap any mana. Aka can I play a sphinxes after my turn but before they can have mana to counter if they are tapped out but after I would have to discard any cards over 7.

On April 19 2013 01:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
I know I'm like a day late but in reference to this question:


I'm pretty sure there is actually a situation where if you discard on your end-step (due to having >7 cards in hand) and those discards cause triggers (from effects like Megrim) then you can cast stuff (like sphinx's revelation) in response to said triggers and draw without having to discard back down to 7, all before your opponent untaps.

No, that answer isn't terribly relevant but I think technically this stuff is possible.

On April 18 2013 14:23 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Swords are fine as a 1-of, random out to stuff/random free wins that you don't want to draw often. Much better in blue lists with a lot of cantrips/draw spells (or actual Steelshaper's Gift).
You can pull a page from the Infect/Nivmagus playbook and run Apostle's Blessing if you REALLY need pro-artifact.

I honestly don't think there's a good reason to play a BW humans list when BW tokens and/or soul sisters just seem like better synergistic-white-weenie decks. You aren't just missing Mom (though that's a major loss), you are also missing Therapy, Jitte, and Wasteland, and there really aren't good analogues for those cards in Modern.

On April 19 2013 02:14 Risen wrote:
The answer is no. You can't cast anything during the time between cleanup step and untap. There is no response to the untap step.

If Hollowsage becomes untapped during your untap step, the ability will trigger. However, since no player gets priority during the untap step, it waits to be put on the stack until your upkeep starts. At that time, all your "beginning of upkeep" triggers will also trigger. You can put them and Hollowsage's trigger on the stack in any order.

On April 19 2013 02:37 Sn0_Man wrote:

And the answer is no. There are no effects that trigger "at the beginning of" either turn or untap step.

On April 19 2013 02:34 spinesheath wrote:

There is no response to the Discard step either, and yet you can cast things if you discard Emrakul and respond to it's triggered ability. I was wondering if there is an equivalent triggered ability that gets triggered during Untap which you could respond to.

On April 19 2013 02:34 spinesheath wrote:
It's kinda surprising that Cleanup and Untap are treated differently...

On April 19 2013 02:17 Shotcoder wrote:


Why isn't there a good reason? People probably told him there wasn't a good reason to play it in Legacy too. Therapy isn't a huge loss, since you have IoK, Jitte isn't a loss since you aren't running Stoneforge, Wasteland is for sure but it's also a loss for almost any type of White list, Aether vial list, or control list.

Like I said it's just an idea, and because the lack of pro color to protect your Aristocrat and High priest is probably the main reason it wont work. Just move on to the next idea, no heartbreak here.

On April 19 2013 02:52 Sn0_Man wrote:


I guess... but like what do you want to happen to megrim triggers caused by discarding during cleanup? Wait till your opponent untaps before letting them resolve? thats... really unreasonable.

They have to be resolved on your turn so they are. The fact that they allow you a backdoor into casting stuff almost "between turns" is interesting but not really gamebreaking.

On April 19 2013 02:57 Judicator wrote:


Therapy is not the same as IoK, Inquistion is very good, but Therapy's synergy with Doomed Travelers and the like just means you might straight up strip the opponent of relevant spells off of 1.5 cards. You can't get that out of Inquistion.

I am trying to learn to play with the 2 big "skill" cards (Therapy, Brainstorm) in Legacy right now and just preliminary observations lets me know that if I was better with Therapy, this card would net me so much advantage.

Sam's deck trades up very well, and you got 3 of the best cards that trades up gone from your deck, plus Wasteland. You saw it on camera where opponents were like do I really want to do this?

On April 19 2013 03:05 Sn0_Man wrote:
Oh, cleanup re-triggers. JK.

On the subject of Therapy, I spent a while brewing a legacy deck centering around interactions like Intuition for a pile of: Narcomoeba, Narcomoeba, Cabal Therapy, which gives you a random narcomoeba in hand (to pitch to force) and a free cabal therapy. Needless to say it was awful but I had fun thinking about weird lines I could take.

On April 19 2013 03:16 Shotcoder wrote:


Idk why it's assumed I don't understand card functionality when I explicitly stated I've played his legacy Zombies list.



The card works fine in that deck, but it's much more effective with cards like doomed traveler and gravecrawler or something that has some sort of replay-ability to get advantages from playing them together.

On April 19 2013 03:27 Judicator wrote:


I am not saying you don't understand, but you said that Inquisition can take the place of Therapy, I am saying it doesn't from my limited experience with Therapy (not Inquisition, that card I was playing when everyone was playing UW).

On April 19 2013 05:46 Kinie wrote:
The biggest issue with Cabal Therapy compared to IoK or Sieze is that those cards aren't really metagame dependent. By that, I mean if you give a semi-experienced Magic player a deck with IoK or Sieze, they generally know what to do with them, and can probably pick the best card to remove from the opponent's hand.

With Therapy, you need to know the archetype/deck the opponent is playing, what their strategy for winning is going to be, and what card(s) can you name to best disrupt that strategy. It's easy to know what to name when you cast something like Gitaxian Probe, or even go t1 Thoughtsieze, t2 Therapy. But in Legacy, where you can die as early as turn 1, you don't have the luxury of making a mistake on what you name. Because if you miss on Therapy, you could literally die because of it. You have to make large assumptions of what deck they are playing, based upon how they shuffle, if they mulligan, even how they handle their lands. What color lands do they have, are they duals or fetches? Is it a basic land, or a wasteland even? Do they not even play a land? The "skill requirement" of Therapy is much higher than IoK or Sieze, because the potential payoff is much higher.

On April 19 2013 03:55 Shotcoder wrote:


It can, not as effectively but it can. THe format doesn't have access to it so something has to replace it. The best discard spells in the format are Inquisition and THoughtseize. So use them?

On April 19 2013 08:34 Judicator wrote:


But like McMcEmcee said, I don't think Inquisition (thoughtseize is in both, so its a push on that) substitutes for Therapy as well as it needs to be. It just seems like the deck loses value across all fronts when you try to draw the transition from Legacy to Modern, making the trades seem a lot less good.

Edit:

Dredge has been fringe since the initial wave. It's like what LSV said about the deck, it's the tax of legacy and vintage, the minute you decide to believe the tax man won't come...is the minute the tax man comes knocking on your door. I don't think Cage/Rest in Peace did anything to change the dice roll any.

Edit 2:

Skylasher spoiled. BUG just needs a way to handle Verdict now. Yes, I am checking things off as cards are spoiled.