EPTThat list is a bit laughable when you claim it's for the 2011 season and there is no Borussia Dortmund in the top 20.
2010-2011 football (soccer) thread - Page 110
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Azza
China650 Posts
That list is a bit laughable when you claim it's for the 2011 season and there is no Borussia Dortmund in the top 20. | ||
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popzags
Poland604 Posts
On February 19 2011 00:08 Ganjamaster wrote: Nesta is an exceptional defender and will go down in history as one of the best defenders in the last 20 years. His track record is absolutely ridiculous, but no need to get into that. Puyol is another staple of Barcelona (raised in the youth teams) and has also been very good although he is on the decline. He is still very good, but the reason they dont sell him or bench him its because for the time being he is in good form, is the captain and heart of the team and is loved by the fans. You CANNOT sell a player who is older than 32 for decent returns except in exceptional cases. Marquez had plenty of replacements that are better o as good as he was. Additionally he was injured for a long time. A good offer came in and they unloaded him, nothing wrong with that. Well, good point indeed. Still, if Barca had spare money for Fabregas bring-back attempt, they definitely could afford keeping Marquez till his retirement. Especially since Cesc won't come back... /Marquez bias. | ||
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Ganjamaster
Argentina475 Posts
On February 19 2011 00:15 Azza wrote: @Ganjamaster That list is a bit laughable when you claim it's for the 2011 season and there is no Borussia Dortmund in the top 20. That is the up to date UEFA ranking, why should Borussia Dortmund be in the top 20? | ||
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Azza
China650 Posts
On February 19 2011 00:24 Ganjamaster wrote: That is the up to date UEFA ranking, why should Borussia Dortmund be in the top 20? Based on 2011 season performance? Cause BVB are runaway Bundesliga leaders with Bayern like 11 points behind. | ||
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Ganjamaster
Argentina475 Posts
On February 19 2011 00:26 Azza wrote: Based on 2011 season performance? Cause BVB are runaway Bundesliga leaders with Bayern like 11 points behind. Yeah, if and when they win it they will appear. The standings are based on last season not the current one. | ||
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Azza
China650 Posts
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
On February 18 2011 23:33 Ganjamaster wrote: Top 20 Clubs (2011 season): German teams bold + Show Spoiler + 1 Manchester United Eng 25.3250 32.5750 28.0000 28.5856 21.9000 136.385 2 FC Barcelona Esp 17.8000 27.7750 28.6624 30.5856 21.5000 126.323 3 Chelsea Eng 26.3250 28.5750 25.0000 22.5856 21.9000 124.385 4 Bayern München Ger 18.9000 22.7000 22.5374 30.6166 21.7332 116.487 5 Liverpool Eng 27.3250 24.5750 23.0000 24.5856 11.9000 111.385 6 Arsenal Eng 16.3250 21.5750 22.0000 25.5856 21.9000 107.385 7 Internazionale Ita 15.3856 16.0500 13.2750 34.0856 18.2000 96.996 8 AC Milan Ita 26.3856 16.0500 14.2750 19.0856 17.2000 92.996 9 Werder Bremen Ger 22.9000 15.7000 24.5374 18.6166 10.7332 92.487 10 Real Madrid Esp 17.8000 14.7750 14.6624 22.5856 22.5000 92.323 11 Olympique Lyon Fra 17.0000 13.3856 15.2000 28.0000 18.0166 91.602 12 Sevilla Esp 28.8000 18.7750 10.6624 22.5856 9.5000 90.323 13 AS Roma Ita 19.3856 19.0500 16.2750 12.0856 18.2000 84.996 14 Shakhtar Donetsk Ukr 13.3000 7.9750 29.3250 11.1600 22.6832 84.443 15 Valencia Esp 20.8000 9.7750 13.6624 19.5856 20.5000 84.323 16 FC Porto Por 14.6166 15.5856 17.3570 21.0000 15.1600 83.719 17 Tottenham Hotspur Eng 21.3250 16.5750 12.0000 3.5856 21.9000 75.385 18 Hamburger SV Ger 6.9000 18.7000 24.5374 21.6166 2.7332 74.487 19 CSKA Moscow Rus 11.3250 6.2500 18.9500 21.2332 14.7832 72.541 20 Atlético Madrid Esp 3.8000 14.7750 17.6624 24.5856 8 Source Serie A: 3 Bundesliga: 3 Spanish Primera: 5 EPL: 4 The standings have you tied with Italy at best, and historically speaking italian teams have won significantly more european championships than german teams. Okay, what the hell is going on with this list? It doesn't even make sense, are they trying to go by the best overall team, or the best overall team compared to the leagues they play in? R.Madrid 10th place? and we're not talking historically speaking, of course italians are going to have alot of championships compared to german league if we take into consideration the past 40 or however many years. but like someone has already said, the main point is i think is that the german league is definitely on the rise. | ||
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Espelz
Germany832 Posts
On February 19 2011 04:05 AngryLlama wrote: Okay, what the hell is going on with this list? It doesn't even make sense, are they trying to go by the best overall team, or the best overall team compared to the leagues they play in? R.Madrid 10th place? and we're not talking historically speaking, of course italians are going to have alot of championships compared to german league if we take into consideration the past 40 or however many years. but like someone has already said, the main point is i think is that the german league is definitely on the rise. This is the UEFA-coefficient-list, more details / explanations under this link : http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/calc.html And now, although they did surprisingly decent vs. Valencia, i demand my deserved pity for staying with my beloved Schalke 04 in this season  | ||
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
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Ganjamaster
Argentina475 Posts
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kazansky
Germany931 Posts
On February 19 2011 10:01 Ganjamaster wrote: I agree that the german league is on the rise, but in my opinion it is behind the EPL, SPL and Serie A at the moment. As I said to you 10 pages ago, you shouldn't even dare judging european club football from 20.000 kms away. Apart from history bandwaggoning, you haven't pointed out a single valid argument and backed it up with facts. Look at how Italian teams performed in european cups the last seasons, look at how UEFA index for them is constantly decreasing over the last 20 years (which is averaged over all clubs for your information), and then you should take your time and watch a few middle-tier italian football league games and compare them to England, Germany or even France and Russia. Too lighten up your information standards, take a look here and here. On an additional note, spanish league is highly dominated by two clubs, the rest is far behind. Look at results of spanish teams other than Barca and Real in cup football, yes they win, but in the same amount that for example german or french teams do. And your examples of good spanish teams drop off in their table for reasons, while the big teams in the following leagues tend to struggle and have a harder time against weaker teams in their league. And spanish teams don't smash clubs from other countries, in general spanish teams are rather poor in defensive structure, as seen recently in Valencia vs Schalke. For a overview in league domination, look here. Long story short, european football leaguewise has come really close to each other. There are dominating clubs, but no dominating leagues anymore. And for gods sake don't back up your statements with history, just look up the team with the most titles in france for a reason if you need one. | ||
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Vernom
Spain374 Posts
On February 19 2011 21:04 kazansky wrote: On an additional note, spanish league is highly dominated by two clubs, the rest is far behind. Look at results of spanish teams other than Barca and Real in cup football, yes they win, but in the same amount that for example german or french teams do. And your examples of good spanish teams drop off in their table for reasons, while the big teams in the following leagues tend to struggle and have a harder time against weaker teams in their league. And spanish teams don't smash clubs from other countries, in general spanish teams are rather poor in defensive structure, as seen recently in Valencia vs Schalke. For a overview in league domination, look here. Long story short, european football leaguewise has come really close to each other. There are dominating clubs, but no dominating leagues anymore. And for gods sake don't back up your statements with history, just look up the team with the most titles in france for a reason if you need one. You are wrong. They are very far behind R.Madrid and Barcelona because those teams have one of the best squads from their story (I don't want to say the best because I might be wrong by a small %). I would bet those teams from spanish middle table can fit at the Bundesliga without problems, being at the same or better positions than the germany teams. Or those germany teams wouldnt budge R.Madrid or Barcelona from their dominant position like the rest of spanish teams. | ||
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SwedishHero
Sweden869 Posts
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Vernom
Spain374 Posts
On February 19 2011 22:13 SwedishHero wrote: Vernom, I would say you are wrong aswell. The La liga is boring as hell. Its like the premium version of the scottish leauge. And also is in terms of leauges, I belive Germany has surpassed Italy(I love serie A btw, Juve my favorite team in the world). Bundesliga is also the most spectator friendly leauge in the world of football. Yes, that is boring because the top2 is very far ahead at term of skill. And that would have happened too if they played Bundesliga. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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kazansky
Germany931 Posts
On February 19 2011 22:41 Vernom wrote: Yes, that is boring because the top2 is very far ahead at term of skill. And that would have happened too if they played Bundesliga. I would never deny that. But in Premier League Manchester United and Chelsea are also ahead in terms of quality, comparable to the top 2 in spain, and the title is competeted harder. Its a combination of top two being superb and a broader gap. That said, just look at the game between Valencia and Schalke this week, perfect example, or the matches of Bremen versus Valencia last year. Highly entertaining, completely even matches, although the respective Bundesliga team had a far harder time in their league. Of course teams like Sevilla, Valencia or Athletico would perform well or even be a contestant for the title if they would play in Bundesliga. But only because its more likely that a on the paper better team loses to a relegation candidate. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On February 20 2011 00:25 kazansky wrote: I would never deny that. But in Premier League Manchester United and Chelsea are also ahead in terms of quality, comparable to the top 2 in spain, and the title is competeted harder. Its a combination of top two being superb and a broader gap. That said, just look at the game between Valencia and Schalke this week, perfect example, or the matches of Bremen versus Valencia last year. Highly entertaining, completely even matches, although the respective Bundesliga team had a far harder time in their league. Of course teams like Sevilla, Valencia or Athletico would perform well or even be a contestant for the title if they would play in Bundesliga. But only because its more likely that a on the paper better team loses to a relegation candidate. You can't really say Man Utd and Chelsea stand above the rest based on this season. The playing field has evened up A LOT. | ||
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white_box921
United Kingdom967 Posts
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On February 20 2011 00:33 white_box921 wrote: Chelsea ahead? they are sitting outside of the top4 atm...... yep, i think its pretty safe to say that chelsea are in a crisis right now. no CL football next season is a definite possibility | ||
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kazansky
Germany931 Posts
On February 20 2011 00:33 white_box921 wrote: Chelsea ahead? they are sitting outside of the top4 atm...... That is exactly what I said. You can't deny from a quality on the paper that Chelsea's team is maybe the best team in England, but at least better than the lineup of Arsenal or Tottenham although this might hurt the soul of a London football fan (it was expensive enough after all  ). They don't perform good at the moment, and that shows how the others have evened out the gap and that Chelsea or United, if having a slope, despite their quality on roster are not destined to march ahead. What is the case for Real or Barcelona. Even if they don't play their A game they lose or draw 1 game out of 20. | ||
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