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On May 24 2011 18:42 Ashby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 08:05 Bairemuth wrote:
3. Demon Hunter - Seems like a cool class, but I don't like some of the aspects of the class such as the gadgets and traps. I also definitely can't stand the thought of dual wielding crossbows so I will probably just use a bow and rely on damage from that rather than traps etc.
. I think the fact that the demon hunter can duel wield bows is fucking awesome haha. u can imagine how fragile the demon hunter will be but at the same will be able to do a shit tone of damage. which generally requires a good amount of skill to keep the character alive. Demon hunter will be my first class then the barbarian and i dont really care about the rest. If the witch doctor is anything like a necro then i will hate it and wizard looks good except i dont it is much different from a sorceress.
I anticipate they've created a one handed crossbow which deals significantly less damage than a regular one.
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Thats actually one of the biggest parts I'm looking forward in D3, two-handed and dual wield to be acceptable choice. Dual wield in D2 was utterly useless and two handed weapons were barely any good. Diablo 3 will have that part balanced out at some point, quite possibly
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On May 25 2011 02:14 gosublade wrote:
Thats actually one of the biggest parts I'm looking forward in D3, two-handed and dual wield to be acceptable choice. Dual wield in D2 was utterly useless and two handed weapons were barely any good. Diablo 3 will have that part balanced out at some point, quite possibly
Dual wield was not useless...I made a fury barb (that dual wields) and it was able to clear ubers without much problem. Though, I agree, most of the time 1h + shield was more effective.
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well even game developers like JAGEX managed to make every weapon type pretty viable, 2h or not.
so it's pretty clear then that diablo 3 will have this covered.
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I played waited in line last year at blizzcon for like an hour and a half to play d3 for like 15 minutes. This year I expect more wait time and less play time. Gonna be epic!!! Cant wait 
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On May 25 2011 02:17 Bairemuth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:14 gosublade wrote:
Thats actually one of the biggest parts I'm looking forward in D3, two-handed and dual wield to be acceptable choice. Dual wield in D2 was utterly useless and two handed weapons were barely any good. Diablo 3 will have that part balanced out at some point, quite possibly Dual wield was not useless...I made a fury barb (that dual wields) and it was able to clear ubers without much problem. Though, I agree, most of the time 1h + shield was more effective.
It was sub-optimal and therefore useless in a game where min-maxing is so important. Unless you want to play an inefficient build for the challenge.
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On May 25 2011 03:53 waterglen wrote:I played waited in line last year at blizzcon for like an hour and a half to play d3 for like 15 minutes. This year I expect more wait time and less play time. Gonna be epic!!! Cant wait
an hour and a half?
i think i waited nearly 3 hours at gamescom in cologne last year ._.
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1h+shield is almost always better than dual wielding. You're welcome to find rare situations where this isn't the case, but generally this holds true. The fact that you even brought up the barbarian from classic just baffles me. Yeah, he was overpowered congrats and then he got nerf batted into oblivion.
I haven't played d2 online seriously since before skill synergies (1.09) and yes I did dupe and map hack just like everybody else who played at the time. My favorite thing to play was single player /players 64 (or 8 since they ended up removing 64) hardcore whatever I could find and see how far I could get. Not the most optimal thing to do, but I always found it fun.
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In a min/max game there will always be one class / build that is better at ONE particular thing. It's nearly impossible to balance a game where all builds are equally efficient in all regards. The only way to balance the game like that would be to make all classes and all builds do exactly the same damage, the only difference being different animations and different spells (but what fun would that be?). Also, a lot of the times its not even the builds themselves that are unbalnced, just some of the gear that is available in the game. It's impossible to account for every single gear combination in the game and how it will impact each individual build of the game.
This is exactly why Blizzard has stated that they are not going to try and balance the game for PvP...simply because it's unreasonable with the amount of randomization in the game. Therefore, I've often had more fun experimenting with non-cookie cutter builds and trying to make them work in PvE situations. And generally, most builds will be effective enough so that they can complete the full game.
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You don't want equal balance between every build, anyway. If there aren't any wrong answers, your choices don't matter, and then getting the right answer doesn't feel rewarding. You just want enough balance that no one build completely overshadows the rest, and/or has no disadvantages to it.
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On May 25 2011 05:52 Bibdy wrote:
You don't want equal balance between every build, anyway. If there aren't any wrong answers, your choices don't matter, and then getting the right answer doesn't feel rewarding. You just want enough balance that no one build completely overshadows the rest, and/or has no disadvantages to it.
Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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On May 25 2011 05:41 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
1h+shield is almost always better than dual wielding. You're welcome to find rare situations where this isn't the case, but generally this holds true. The fact that you even brought up the barbarian from classic just baffles me. Yeah, he was overpowered congrats and then he got nerf batted into oblivion.
I haven't played d2 online seriously since before skill synergies (1.09) and yes I did dupe and map hack just like everybody else who played at the time. My favorite thing to play was single player /players 64 (or 8 since they ended up removing 64) hardcore whatever I could find and see how far I could get. Not the most optimal thing to do, but I always found it fun.
It sounds like you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Why you are talking like such an authority when you haven't played since before skill synergies is beyond my comprehension... and somehow in the SAME post you are 'baffled' as to how somebody could bring up a classic build...
Saying that there aren't viable builds that dual wield or use two-handed weapons is laughable.
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On May 25 2011 05:52 Bibdy wrote:
You don't want equal balance between every build, anyway. If there aren't any wrong answers, your choices don't matter, and then getting the right answer doesn't feel rewarding. You just want enough balance that no one build completely overshadows the rest, and/or has no disadvantages to it.
Thats the most invalid state a game can exist in. Let me lay it out in D2 style:
You have two hand slots, 2 handed weapons take both slots, weapon and a shield each take 1 slot.
If you use 2 handed weapons, you sacrifice the second slot of shield or dual wield to have massive damage output.
If you use 2 weapons, you sacrifice the second slot for the second weapon. By not going for the shield, you also are going for more damage.
The main aspect here is that by making both slots offensive, you should be able to get higher damage output to compensate for the lack of a shield.
If you choose weapon and a shield, you sacrifice the second slot against another weapon or a 2 handed weapon, having extra defense and armor, survivability.
The biggest problem here is that dual wield nor 2 handed weapon choice doesn't come close to being viable, since the microscopic edge you get vs choosing the shield isn't worth it. The shield is just so much superior choice.
Everyone should be able to choose what they wan't without a penalty. I don't have the least bit of doubt that Blizzard agrees with me.
In D2, dual wield was so horribly BAD. It's basically using a single one handed weapon and leaving the second slot blank. I'm not even exaggerating.
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My Fury barb was one of my stronger, and best characters  Great PVM, really helped with dclone and the ubers, never had the gear to be a great PVP, invested to much into my zealadin.
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On May 25 2011 07:21 Barrin wrote:
Do you not realize that there are only two classes that even have the option of dual wielding? It's like you ignore this fact while putting the 1h+shield vs dual wield in the context of all of the classes together. No. Just two classes we're looking at here.
Fury barbs are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shielding.
WW assassins are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shielding.
Hybrid assassins are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shielding.
Melee assassins in general are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shield.
Fury babs got raped in pvp
WW assas got raped in pvp
Hybrid assas got raped in pvp
Melee assas got raped in pvp
Overall, I explained pretty clearly why weapon+shield is better. And I stated everything at a pvp point of view since with any little skill you can rape everything in pve with /players 8 np.
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On May 25 2011 07:21 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 05:41 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
1h+shield is almost always better than dual wielding. You're welcome to find rare situations where this isn't the case, but generally this holds true. The fact that you even brought up the barbarian from classic just baffles me. Yeah, he was overpowered congrats and then he got nerf batted into oblivion. Fury barbs are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shielding. WW assassins are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shielding. Hybrid assassins are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shielding. Melee assassins in general are always better dual wielding instead of 1h+shield.
I know playing "devils advocate" is fun for the "niche master of D2" crowd, but really, way too many of the high-end classbuilds were 1h +shield. Naming off a few exceptions (and even a few that aren't really high-performing classbuilds) does not change this.
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True, its not a matter of opinion
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Favorite act in D2? Gotta be Act 2. Everyone's least favorite? Act 3. Learn from this blizzard! Don't make tiny enemies that constantly run from you at mock 3! NO DEAD ENDS IN THE SWAMP!
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EPT
