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I think if Blizzard takes no "taxes" on items being traded in that RMAH, I wouldn't mind. They should also cap / contain the value of items to certain limits so people don't go over the hedge with this (maybe even cap the amount of items for sale per account per day or something like that, not sure of this one though).
I didn't read the full details on this yet, but I don't see it as SUCH a bad thing since as we know, items were already sold for (edit: money), just that it was not official, illegal(?), and only a little portion of people were getting benefits from it. If they do it this way everyone will be able to get his little share, and it'll all be legit.
One of the negative point I can see is if items are too easily obtainable by hardcore players, playing Diablo 3 PvE will become a career where you hunt items and sell them on that RMAH. There has to be something to balance it all...
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On August 11 2011 05:11 Names wrote:
I think if Blizzard takes no "taxes" on items being traded in that RMAH, I wouldn't mind. They should also cap / contain the value of items to certain limits so people don't go over the hedge with this (maybe even cap the amount of items for sale per account per day or something like that, not sure of this one though).
I didn't read the full details on this yet, but I don't see it as SUCH a bad thing since as we know, items were already sold for gold, just that it was not official, illegal(?), and only a little portion of people were getting benefits from it. If they do it this way everyone will be able to get his little share, and it'll all be legit.
One of the negative point I can see is if items are too easily obtainable by hardcore players, playing Diablo 3 PvE will become a career where you hunt items and sell them on that RMAH. There has to be something to balance it all...
There is no RMAH in hardcore, unless of course you mean hardcore players as in people with no jobs outside of the game.
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On August 11 2011 04:47 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 03:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Well once again this thread taught me that the kind of people that call my opinions retarded generally have no idea what they're talking about to begin with XD
You cannot buy power in LoL, anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue what they're talking about. Boosts are not the same thing. Exp boosts for instance are actually DETRIMENTAL to your play, since they'll get you up to higher levels quicker but you won't have the IP to buy your runes properly if you rush. That and people sorely overestimate how important runes actually are. Even at level 3 across the board they are minor stat increases. Necessary, but not game-breaking. You cannot buy runes, nor can you make yourself anymore powerful than any other player with cash.
Do learn about the thing you're discussing before bashing me for my opinion on it, hmm? For a limited amount of time, IP boosts provide a power advantage. If you take two equally skilled people that have both been playing LoL for 2 weeks and let them face off in a duel, both will have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of these two has been using an IP boost, then the guy who has been using the IP boost will have a better chance at winning. That's assuming they only pick mirror heroes because if they're allowed to freely pick heroes, the guy that pays $$ is much more likely to be able to counter pick. You might argue that this is irrelevant because it's not a 1on1 game and I will disagree because if I, as a team captain, have to recruit one of these two, I will always recruit the guy that spends $$ because his laning phase will be better and he's gonna be more versatile. If, by your definition, you're unable to buy power in LoL then, also by your definition, you're unable to buy power in D3.
Don't play much LoL I take it? Nothing in LoL matters competative wise until lvl 30. They used to allow lvl 20 people in ranked. The result? EVERYONE hated it. Even if a lvl 29 showed up in your ranked, the other players would be pissed as hell. Then again, the 1-29 phase is like a rite of passage and consists of only about 5-15% of the total games played by people who are at all competative. Having more IP may also get you more champs, but I would never ever pick one person over another because he has more champions. I would pick laning ability first and from there have the person buy what ever champs he/she needs in order to be useful for the team.
Another thing that people should realize is that the true hardcore D2 players were the ones trading in games, on D2JSP or whatever forum/site out there in order to accrue wealth. No one was impressed if you had a lvl 88 character. Any idiot could do that by being rushed and doing runs. What was impressive were the guys that had characters full of items.
And you know what? Those were the guys who every revered as the good players. If its the same in D3, its very likely that a smart/good/dedicated/hardcore player will utilize all options possible in order to optimize their trading. This means that they'll use either gold or money auctions along with in game trading in order to churn out a profit. In the end though, these true players will eventually generate a wealth that is 50 times larger than the average players (without putting money into the system!)
A person who hops on the game and purchases an item won't spend that much in order to have a full trading inventory. These people will buy the bare minimum; enough to equip their characters with the best. And then after they're done doing that, the rest of the "real" players will look at them and say, "nothing to trade? you must suck". And if someone tries to just buy their way into the auction and trading system, my guess would be that they'll learn a hard lesson in economics. I know I would. I sucked at this aspect of the game, but my friends were very good. If i buy my items, what happens if I no longer care about my character or what not? A good player would trade them for a profit, thus making more money. Bad players like me (or spoiled little kids) will just end up losing the money i paid in order to get those items.
To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!).
I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer.
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On August 11 2011 05:13 DrBoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 05:11 Names wrote:
I think if Blizzard takes no "taxes" on items being traded in that RMAH, I wouldn't mind. They should also cap / contain the value of items to certain limits so people don't go over the hedge with this (maybe even cap the amount of items for sale per account per day or something like that, not sure of this one though).
I didn't read the full details on this yet, but I don't see it as SUCH a bad thing since as we know, items were already sold for gold, just that it was not official, illegal(?), and only a little portion of people were getting benefits from it. If they do it this way everyone will be able to get his little share, and it'll all be legit.
One of the negative point I can see is if items are too easily obtainable by hardcore players, playing Diablo 3 PvE will become a career where you hunt items and sell them on that RMAH. There has to be something to balance it all... There is no RMAH in hardcore, unless of course you mean hardcore players as in people with no jobs outside of the game.
Sorry I meant people that play the game all day everyday. So yeah, the latter.
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I've still yet to see any real argument against RMAH besides people saying someone, far far away paying for items, somehow devalues their own gaming experience.
On another note, DrBoo is an elaborate troll, just read his post history in the PoE and this thread, we should probably stop quoting and replying to things he says.
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On August 11 2011 05:13 [Agony]x90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 04:47 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On August 11 2011 03:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Well once again this thread taught me that the kind of people that call my opinions retarded generally have no idea what they're talking about to begin with XD
You cannot buy power in LoL, anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue what they're talking about. Boosts are not the same thing. Exp boosts for instance are actually DETRIMENTAL to your play, since they'll get you up to higher levels quicker but you won't have the IP to buy your runes properly if you rush. That and people sorely overestimate how important runes actually are. Even at level 3 across the board they are minor stat increases. Necessary, but not game-breaking. You cannot buy runes, nor can you make yourself anymore powerful than any other player with cash.
Do learn about the thing you're discussing before bashing me for my opinion on it, hmm? For a limited amount of time, IP boosts provide a power advantage. If you take two equally skilled people that have both been playing LoL for 2 weeks and let them face off in a duel, both will have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of these two has been using an IP boost, then the guy who has been using the IP boost will have a better chance at winning. That's assuming they only pick mirror heroes because if they're allowed to freely pick heroes, the guy that pays $$ is much more likely to be able to counter pick. You might argue that this is irrelevant because it's not a 1on1 game and I will disagree because if I, as a team captain, have to recruit one of these two, I will always recruit the guy that spends $$ because his laning phase will be better and he's gonna be more versatile. If, by your definition, you're unable to buy power in LoL then, also by your definition, you're unable to buy power in D3. Don't play much LoL I take it? Nothing in LoL matters competative wise until lvl 30. They used to allow lvl 20 people in ranked. The result? EVERYONE hated it. Even if a lvl 29 showed up in your ranked, the other players would be pissed as hell. Then again, the 1-29 phase is like a rite of passage and consists of only about 5-15% of the total games played by people who are at all competative. Having more IP may also get you more champs, but I would never ever pick one person over another because he has more champions. I would pick laning ability first and from there have the person buy what ever champs he/she needs in order to be useful for the team. Another thing that people should realize is that the true hardcore D2 players were the ones trading in games, on D2JSP or whatever forum/site out there in order to accrue wealth. No one was impressed if you had a lvl 88 character. Any idiot could do that by being rushed and doing runs. What was impressive were the guys that had characters full of items. And you know what? Those were the guys who every revered as the good players. If its the same in D3, its very likely that a smart/good/dedicated/hardcore player will utilize all options possible in order to optimize their trading. This means that they'll use either gold or money auctions along with in game trading in order to churn out a profit. In the end though, these true players will eventually generate a wealth that is 50 times larger than the average players (without putting money into the system!) A person who hops on the game and purchases an item won't spend that much in order to have a full trading inventory. These people will buy the bare minimum; enough to equip their characters with the best. And then after they're done doing that, the rest of the "real" players will look at them and say, "nothing to trade? you must suck". And if someone tries to just buy their way into the auction and trading system, my guess would be that they'll learn a hard lesson in economics. I know I would. I sucked at this aspect of the game, but my friends were very good. If i buy my items, what happens if I no longer care about my character or what not? A good player would trade them for a profit, thus making more money. Bad players like me (or spoiled little kids) will just end up losing the money i paid in order to get those items. To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!). I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer.
I played D2 for years and I never 'revered' anybody. I can't believe anyone could. It's a PvE game that rewards you the more time you put into it, after you get yourself a decent character by pummeling your way through the trial-and-error skill system (to figure out what sucked and what didn't). I'm not going to be any more impressed by someone that completed the first Tal Rasha set in D2 as I will be the guy sells the first mega unique sword for a bunch of cash in D3. I'll be jealous, but I'm not going to revere them. Very different emotions.
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On August 11 2011 05:08 DrBoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 05:04 Bibdy wrote:On August 11 2011 02:55 STS17 wrote:On August 11 2011 02:28 jimmyjingle wrote:On August 11 2011 02:22 Brad wrote:On August 11 2011 02:18 iNSiPiD1 wrote:On August 11 2011 01:20 Belial88 wrote:
Wow that totalbiscuit video was fucking retarded. That guy....
I guess he isn't aware that people had transactions and 'cheated with cash' D2 all day long. People still do that with Wow. I sold my toon for $480 on WoW on ebay, even after my listing was removed, and another $100 on a dedicated gold website (lvl 60 that had t.05 gear... but it was the day before BC).
And then there's sites like d2jsp, where you use 'forum gold' to trade, which you could also conveniently buy from the forum as well. Which is, gasp, money used to buy items. Although you COULD just use in-game resources to buy items.
The RMAH is just taking the model of D2jsp, the most successful blizzard trading site to ever exist. It's an amazing idea, most people will stick to using in-game resources, a select few will pay cash, but have a neglible effect on the community.
And modding did NOT keep d2 alive 'for ages'. That is so ridiculous, only little kids played on open.
And we obviously see how SC2 benefits from online only. It prevents hacks and bots from ruining the server, and keeps money in the pocket of Blizz, as it should. I had (actually still have) over 2,000 CD keys for D2 (only used it for bots). That translates to a LOT of lost money to blizz.
It's funny how much he hates on bots/hackers/dupes, and then cries about online-only.
Blizzard is not taking 'cuts' from the community. You don't HAVE to use the RMAH, it's only for the kids with rich parents or the adults who could care less about spending $5 on the most epic gear in the game. It's a small fee, that players have to pay just as if they were to use ebay or paypal.
Most retaded video ever. Just like a lot of what he says, why doesn't he just stick with wow.
User was temp banned for this post. I agree with this. TotalBiscuit was speaking out of ignorance on several things. The biggest of which was him talking about Blizzard being complete morons for adding this system into D3 instead of WoW. One doesn't have to look far to find Blizzard comments specific to why they believe this system is better for D3 than WoW. Also, he completely ignores the difference between selling power through a store like LoL (where the content is created and sold by Riot) and the RMAH in D3 (where the content is FOUND by the players). I used to think TB had a reasonable opinion on things, but this video is making me question whether that's true in general or not. You can buy power in LoL? it becomes necessary at a high level of play. Thing is though there is nothing in LoL you can buy with real money you can't buy with the in game currency. At a high level of play you may "have" to buy tons of champions but that is a choice made out of impatience (you could grind out the IP for them if you wanted to, or you could save the time and just buy it) not a requirement of the play. If I pay real cash for Miss Fortune (pun intended) that MF is no stronger or weaker than if I used IP to buy her. You don't buy power in LoL, you buy the ability to get things faster. How is this different to D3, where you could find some awesome item you don't need, then trade it for the one you want? When the RMAH enters the equation, aren't you simply 'purchasing the ability to gear up faster'? D3 is not a competitive game, so why the hell should I care that some dude bought the first Grandfather for $500, rather than found it himself? Shit, I only hope I'm the guy that finds the first one so I can make bank. What freaking 'competitive edge' are we even talking about here? Blizzard has already stated that they plan on making the PvP competitive which in turn is going to force people to buy items from the RMAH because all the good items are going to be on RMAH since people would much rather trade a high level item for cash as compared to in game gold.
What they actually said was the exact opposite. They are not implementing features that would make people feel like PvP is competitive, like a ladder. They want it to be a PvE game, they won't balance it for PvP and they don't want it to be competitive at all.
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On August 11 2011 05:13 [Agony]x90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 04:47 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On August 11 2011 03:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Well once again this thread taught me that the kind of people that call my opinions retarded generally have no idea what they're talking about to begin with XD
You cannot buy power in LoL, anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue what they're talking about. Boosts are not the same thing. Exp boosts for instance are actually DETRIMENTAL to your play, since they'll get you up to higher levels quicker but you won't have the IP to buy your runes properly if you rush. That and people sorely overestimate how important runes actually are. Even at level 3 across the board they are minor stat increases. Necessary, but not game-breaking. You cannot buy runes, nor can you make yourself anymore powerful than any other player with cash.
Do learn about the thing you're discussing before bashing me for my opinion on it, hmm? For a limited amount of time, IP boosts provide a power advantage. If you take two equally skilled people that have both been playing LoL for 2 weeks and let them face off in a duel, both will have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of these two has been using an IP boost, then the guy who has been using the IP boost will have a better chance at winning. That's assuming they only pick mirror heroes because if they're allowed to freely pick heroes, the guy that pays $$ is much more likely to be able to counter pick. You might argue that this is irrelevant because it's not a 1on1 game and I will disagree because if I, as a team captain, have to recruit one of these two, I will always recruit the guy that spends $$ because his laning phase will be better and he's gonna be more versatile. If, by your definition, you're unable to buy power in LoL then, also by your definition, you're unable to buy power in D3. Don't play much LoL I take it? Nothing in LoL matters competative wise until lvl 30. They used to allow lvl 20 people in ranked. The result? EVERYONE hated it. Even if a lvl 29 showed up in your ranked, the other players would be pissed as hell. Then again, the 1-29 phase is like a rite of passage and consists of only about 5-15% of the total games played by people who are at all competative. Having more IP may also get you more champs, but I would never ever pick one person over another because he has more champions. I would pick laning ability first and from there have the person buy what ever champs he/she needs in order to be useful for the team. + Show Spoiler +Another thing that people should realize is that the true hardcore D2 players were the ones trading in games, on D2JSP or whatever forum/site out there in order to accrue wealth. No one was impressed if you had a lvl 88 character. Any idiot could do that by being rushed and doing runs. What was impressive were the guys that had characters full of items.
And you know what? Those were the guys who every revered as the good players. If its the same in D3, its very likely that a smart/good/dedicated/hardcore player will utilize all options possible in order to optimize their trading. This means that they'll use either gold or money auctions along with in game trading in order to churn out a profit. In the end though, these true players will eventually generate a wealth that is 50 times larger than the average players (without putting money into the system!)
A person who hops on the game and purchases an item won't spend that much in order to have a full trading inventory. These people will buy the bare minimum; enough to equip their characters with the best. And then after they're done doing that, the rest of the "real" players will look at them and say, "nothing to trade? you must suck". And if someone tries to just buy their way into the auction and trading system, my guess would be that they'll learn a hard lesson in economics. I know I would. I sucked at this aspect of the game, but my friends were very good. If i buy my items, what happens if I no longer care about my character or what not? A good player would trade them for a profit, thus making more money. Bad players like me (or spoiled little kids) will just end up losing the money i paid in order to get those items.
To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!).
I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer.
Cool. Where's the counter argument to me saying that for a limited amount of time, money buys power in LoL?
For a limited amount of time, my argument still holds true even after hitting level 30. If you have 2 equally skilled teams that only just recently hit level 30 and let them face off, both have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of those teams uses IP boosts then, the team that uses IP boosts has a better chance at winning. That's all assuming both teams mirror their picks because if they can freely pick heroes, the team that pays $$ will be much more likely to be able to outpick the opposing team.
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On August 11 2011 05:13 [Agony]x90 wrote:
Another thing that people should realize is that the true hardcore D2 players were the ones trading in games, on D2JSP or whatever forum/site out there in order to accrue wealth. No one was impressed if you had a lvl 88 character. Any idiot could do that by being rushed and doing runs. What was impressive were the guys that had characters full of items.
And you know what? Those were the guys who every revered as the good players. If its the same in D3, its very likely that a smart/good/dedicated/hardcore player will utilize all options possible in order to optimize their trading. This means that they'll use either gold or money auctions along with in game trading in order to churn out a profit. In the end though, these true players will eventually generate a wealth that is 50 times larger than the average players (without putting money into the system!)
A person who hops on the game and purchases an item won't spend that much in order to have a full trading inventory. These people will buy the bare minimum; enough to equip their characters with the best. And then after they're done doing that, the rest of the "real" players will look at them and say, "nothing to trade? you must suck". And if someone tries to just buy their way into the auction and trading system, my guess would be that they'll learn a hard lesson in economics. I know I would. I sucked at this aspect of the game, but my friends were very good. If i buy my items, what happens if I no longer care about my character or what not? A good player would trade them for a profit, thus making more money. Bad players like me (or spoiled little kids) will just end up losing the money i paid in order to get those items.
To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!).
I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer.
Wow this is such a good point.
What you said absolutely echoes my experiences playing D2 for years. In D2, there was without a doubt a definable upper echelon of players. They distinguished themselves in a few ways: they were extremely efficient in their builds/runs, they had a keen understanding of the economy and of item values, and they possessed trading savvy. I don't care how many times you reset the ladder, these were the guys who rose to the top in terms of wealth every time. You can't buy that kind of status. Like Agony says above, some rich dude can drop down $1k to deck out his character in the best shit, but then what? He won't possess the intangibles you need to continue growing your wealth in the game. RMAH or not, the players with these traits, the best players, they will rise to the top no matter what.
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On August 11 2011 05:33 Pufftrees wrote:
I've still yet to see any real argument against RMAH besides people saying someone, far far away paying for items, somehow devalues their own gaming experience.
On another note, DrBoo is an elaborate troll, just read his post history in the PoE and this thread, we should probably stop quoting and replying to things he says.
People are going to BOT and farm items to sell for real money, highly damaging both the real money and gold AH's.
Also, the best items that for some poeple will just be un-findable due to how rareity works in diablo games (think zod rune people), are going to be 99% of the time listed on the RMAH due to their worth. So for the extreme rare items, that people like ot build up a base value with smaller items and grow their wealth to eventually get said item, cannot, but someone with $20 to spend on an in-game item can.
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On August 11 2011 05:13 [Agony]x90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 04:47 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On August 11 2011 03:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Well once again this thread taught me that the kind of people that call my opinions retarded generally have no idea what they're talking about to begin with XD
You cannot buy power in LoL, anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue what they're talking about. Boosts are not the same thing. Exp boosts for instance are actually DETRIMENTAL to your play, since they'll get you up to higher levels quicker but you won't have the IP to buy your runes properly if you rush. That and people sorely overestimate how important runes actually are. Even at level 3 across the board they are minor stat increases. Necessary, but not game-breaking. You cannot buy runes, nor can you make yourself anymore powerful than any other player with cash.
Do learn about the thing you're discussing before bashing me for my opinion on it, hmm? For a limited amount of time, IP boosts provide a power advantage. If you take two equally skilled people that have both been playing LoL for 2 weeks and let them face off in a duel, both will have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of these two has been using an IP boost, then the guy who has been using the IP boost will have a better chance at winning. That's assuming they only pick mirror heroes because if they're allowed to freely pick heroes, the guy that pays $$ is much more likely to be able to counter pick. You might argue that this is irrelevant because it's not a 1on1 game and I will disagree because if I, as a team captain, have to recruit one of these two, I will always recruit the guy that spends $$ because his laning phase will be better and he's gonna be more versatile. If, by your definition, you're unable to buy power in LoL then, also by your definition, you're unable to buy power in D3. Don't play much LoL I take it? Nothing in LoL matters competative wise until lvl 30. They used to allow lvl 20 people in ranked. The result? EVERYONE hated it. Even if a lvl 29 showed up in your ranked, the other players would be pissed as hell. Then again, the 1-29 phase is like a rite of passage and consists of only about 5-15% of the total games played by people who are at all competative. Having more IP may also get you more champs, but I would never ever pick one person over another because he has more champions. I would pick laning ability first and from there have the person buy what ever champs he/she needs in order to be useful for the team. Another thing that people should realize is that the true hardcore D2 players were the ones trading in games, on D2JSP or whatever forum/site out there in order to accrue wealth. No one was impressed if you had a lvl 88 character. Any idiot could do that by being rushed and doing runs. What was impressive were the guys that had characters full of items. And you know what? Those were the guys who every revered as the good players. If its the same in D3, its very likely that a smart/good/dedicated/hardcore player will utilize all options possible in order to optimize their trading. This means that they'll use either gold or money auctions along with in game trading in order to churn out a profit. In the end though, these true players will eventually generate a wealth that is 50 times larger than the average players (without putting money into the system!) A person who hops on the game and purchases an item won't spend that much in order to have a full trading inventory. These people will buy the bare minimum; enough to equip their characters with the best. And then after they're done doing that, the rest of the "real" players will look at them and say, "nothing to trade? you must suck". And if someone tries to just buy their way into the auction and trading system, my guess would be that they'll learn a hard lesson in economics. I know I would. I sucked at this aspect of the game, but my friends were very good. If i buy my items, what happens if I no longer care about my character or what not? A good player would trade them for a profit, thus making more money. Bad players like me (or spoiled little kids) will just end up losing the money i paid in order to get those items. To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!). I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer.
I don't know if revered is the right term, but yeah, pretty much what this guy said.
The good D2 players were the ones able to consistently make increase their wealth week in and week out. Even a level 99 character isn't really impressive, it is much more impressive to be able to go through account after account full of mules littered with items most players would think godly. Not saying I was that good at Diablo 2, but I remember times when me and my buddies used to go to random Normal games and just give away things like HoZ, Shako, Occy, arachs, mages... etc just because they suddenly had no value to us.
I remember people thinking we were just being so kind and generous in a normally cruel HC environment (yeah, I suppose you could use the word "revered" but it seems like a stretch to me.) but to us it wasn't really a big deal because we just had fun going in random trading games and increasing our net worth.
In later days I'm sure bots did about the same thing, but we would spend most of our time either Baaling, Mfing ourselfs, or sitting in a trade game looking for the coolest stuff we could get our hands on. This was before D2JSP was real popular ofcourse... while it streamlined things, I think it did make me stop being so entrepreneurial about things.
I've never seen a Zod drop in my life, but at one point in time I had a mule with almost ten of them.
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On August 11 2011 05:13 [Agony]x90 wrote:
To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!).
I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer.
The probalem with the SC2 example is "buying" your way into GM is not the same as RMAH. Rather it would be akin to lowering a build time of a marine by 2 seconds for 20 bucks. The idea is people can earn and find items to PvP... or people can just buy items that are better for real money. So two people, of equal skill end up having lob sided win rates because one guy has better gear, due to real money transcations.
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On August 11 2011 05:43 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Cool. Where's the counter argument to me saying that for a limited amount of time, money buys power in LoL?
For a limited amount of time, my argument still holds true even after hitting level 30. If you have 2 equally skilled teams that only just recently hit level 30 and let them face off, both have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of those teams uses IP boosts then, the team that uses IP boosts has a better chance at winning. That's all assuming both teams mirror their picks because if they can freely pick heroes, the team that pays $$ will be much more likely to be able to outpick the opposing team.
That's just not like that in reality. In LoL you need about 300 games to get to lvl 30. In those 300 games you'll get enough IP to get couple of good heroes and all runes. So there's no need for any kind of boosts.
Also, while you're leveling to 30 you don't really care about runes because more important thing is what level are you because if you're level 10 vs lvl 20 you lack talent points. But more important than all that is your skill because runes aren't that strong tbh.
You're just wrong and you obviously haven't played LoL enough to understand how system works and what's important. Most of the people play LoL exactly because they don't have to pay anything to stay competitive.
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On August 11 2011 05:57 B00ts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 05:13 [Agony]x90 wrote:
To use another person's example earlier, if I could buy my way into grand masters in SC2, I would never do it in a million years. Wanna know why? Because if i didn't earn it, i would never survive there. I would dish out the money to buy my spot there and lose it within 30 games. I can't counterfit skill, meaning that even if I buy my way into status, I cannot keep it unless I truly deserve it, or continuously dish out money on a weekly basis, which is just downright idiotic and pathetic (and everyone will know it too!).
I'm not afraid to admit there's a stigma on microtransactions, but I wouldn't say it's because I'm afraid spoiled kids will be able to match me in "skill" just by doing so. If this happens to be the case, only then would Blizzard lose my respect as a consumer. The probalem with the SC2 example is "buying" your way into GM is not the same as RMAH. Rather it would be akin to lowering a build time of a marine by 2 seconds for 20 bucks. The idea is people can earn and find items to PvP... or people can just buy items that are better for real money. So two people, of equal skill end up having lob sided win rates because one guy has better gear, due to real money transcations.
I'm still having a REALLY hard time figuring out how you can compare the impact of purchasable items in a competitive PvP, 1v1 game like Starcraft 2, and a PvE free-for-all, monster killfest with no significant end-game or goal to achieve except what you yourself decide like Diablo 3.
D3 is not competitive. So the fuck what if my Single-Player campaign Marines get built 2 seconds faster than your single-player marines? Are we both going to start a head-to-head race to see who can kill the first boss in Act 1 the quickest? Will that be our little measure of 'skill' by which you can point at someone that 'cheats' by buying stuff and ruining our stupid little 'competition'?
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I'm interested in how this will pan out. I think that in the worst case scenario, it can't possibly be worse than the illicit items for gold market of D2. On the other hand, it will allow for the average joe a chance to cash in on good finds, even if it's just for in-game benefits.
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On August 11 2011 04:56 DrBoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 04:51 andrewlt wrote:On August 11 2011 02:11 DrBoo wrote:On August 11 2011 01:55 Bibdy wrote:On August 11 2011 01:39 howerpower wrote:
I'm really surprised by how many people think that real money trading is okay, even after years of Blizzard stance against it. It's the difference between an underground, black market and having everything out in the open, regulated and controlled. Anyone who supports the legalization of marijuana should be able to see the parallels. What? I never knew Marijuana could make me more powerful in the real world... I can see how you can put the two together but the thing is buying items off the RMAH causes my character to become stronger and more powerful then yours just because I have more money they you. I agree having it as a black market thing isn't good but it also limits the people who are going to do it and for the most part people get caught and banned for doing it. There might be the few people walking around with bought gear but for the most part its going to be legit people playing the game without advantage from having more money then another person. Sure some people can get all that good gear without paying but they actually have to spend a good amount of time in the game to actually get better and earn it. I have a fulltime job and I could easily buy anything I wanted in Diablo 3 from the RMAH but I just don't like the idea of being able to buy my self towards being better. Its like saying in starcraft 2 I won't bother playing for more then 30minutes a day then just buy lessons everyday instead of actually playing longer. It will probably make you better then the average person who simply plays for a few hours a day instead of only a short amount of time. Should dedication and time spent playing be eliminated by simply just paying your way to greatness instead of working hard at something to achieve it? So, basically, your entire argument against RMAH is that in Diablo 2, you can cover your eyes and pretend that nobody else is doing it. And Diablo 3 is terrible because the official RMAH shattered your illusions about how easy and widespread buying items on unofficial channels really is. What? No... not at all my argument is that you're buying power in Diablo 3 and blizzard is actively supporting it. I know people bought power in Diablo 2 but then again they never had a competitive PvP system which they're trying to implement in Diablo 3.
There is no competitive PvP in Diablo 3. That's why they're not supporting it with a ladder. It's meant to be a side game, not an e-sports.
People bought power in Diablo 2. It's better for the game that Blizzard will be regulating it somewhat rather than not paying attention at all.
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On August 11 2011 05:59 bLah. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 05:43 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Cool. Where's the counter argument to me saying that for a limited amount of time, money buys power in LoL?
For a limited amount of time, my argument still holds true even after hitting level 30. If you have 2 equally skilled teams that only just recently hit level 30 and let them face off, both have an equal chance at winning. If, however, one of those teams uses IP boosts then, the team that uses IP boosts has a better chance at winning. That's all assuming both teams mirror their picks because if they can freely pick heroes, the team that pays $$ will be much more likely to be able to outpick the opposing team. That's just not like that in reality. In LoL you need about 300 games to get to lvl 30. In those 300 games you'll get enough IP to get couple of good heroes and all runes. So there's no need for any kind of boosts. Also, while you're leveling to 30 you don't really care about runes because more important thing is what level are you because if you're level 10 vs lvl 20 you lack talent points. But more important than all that is your skill because runes aren't that strong tbh. You're just wrong and you obviously haven't played LoL enough to understand how system works and what's important. Most of the people play LoL exactly because they don't have to pay anything to stay competitive.
Sure, if you're bad a LoL, runes have no impact on your play because the gamedeciding mistakes happen somewhere else. However, if you reach a certain skilllevel, these few points you gain from runes will make a difference. Boosts also increase the value of your time in the same way that buying items in diablo 3 will increase the value of your time, it's the exact same concept.
+ Show Spoiler +
From now, please save yourself the trouble of quoting me unless you can properly explain to me why boosts in LoL don't provide power. Afterall,this isn't the LoL thread.
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On August 11 2011 05:33 Pufftrees wrote:
I've still yet to see any real argument against RMAH besides people saying someone, far far away paying for items, somehow devalues their own gaming experience.
On another note, DrBoo is an elaborate troll, just read his post history in the PoE and this thread, we should probably stop quoting and replying to things he says.
I'm glad you added "elaborate" I think of my self as a sophisticated person.
I do enjoy having straw man arguments.
I'm not always a troll I do post serious information in serious threads about serious topics. This thread on the other hand is quite ridiculous at this point.
I still do feel very passionate about the RMAH and I think its a terrible idea.
edit: oh and about the PoE thread I was just having a bit of fun poking fun at people who felt entitled to be in the beta because they signed up.
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On August 11 2011 06:44 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 04:56 DrBoo wrote:On August 11 2011 04:51 andrewlt wrote:On August 11 2011 02:11 DrBoo wrote:On August 11 2011 01:55 Bibdy wrote:On August 11 2011 01:39 howerpower wrote:
I'm really surprised by how many people think that real money trading is okay, even after years of Blizzard stance against it. It's the difference between an underground, black market and having everything out in the open, regulated and controlled. Anyone who supports the legalization of marijuana should be able to see the parallels. What? I never knew Marijuana could make me more powerful in the real world... I can see how you can put the two together but the thing is buying items off the RMAH causes my character to become stronger and more powerful then yours just because I have more money they you. I agree having it as a black market thing isn't good but it also limits the people who are going to do it and for the most part people get caught and banned for doing it. There might be the few people walking around with bought gear but for the most part its going to be legit people playing the game without advantage from having more money then another person. Sure some people can get all that good gear without paying but they actually have to spend a good amount of time in the game to actually get better and earn it. I have a fulltime job and I could easily buy anything I wanted in Diablo 3 from the RMAH but I just don't like the idea of being able to buy my self towards being better. Its like saying in starcraft 2 I won't bother playing for more then 30minutes a day then just buy lessons everyday instead of actually playing longer. It will probably make you better then the average person who simply plays for a few hours a day instead of only a short amount of time. Should dedication and time spent playing be eliminated by simply just paying your way to greatness instead of working hard at something to achieve it? So, basically, your entire argument against RMAH is that in Diablo 2, you can cover your eyes and pretend that nobody else is doing it. And Diablo 3 is terrible because the official RMAH shattered your illusions about how easy and widespread buying items on unofficial channels really is. What? No... not at all my argument is that you're buying power in Diablo 3 and blizzard is actively supporting it. I know people bought power in Diablo 2 but then again they never had a competitive PvP system which they're trying to implement in Diablo 3. There is no competitive PvP in Diablo 3. That's why they're not supporting it with a ladder. It's meant to be a side game, not an e-sports. People bought power in Diablo 2. It's better for the game that Blizzard will be regulating it somewhat rather than not paying attention at all.
Well when they boast about their PvP system to me it seems like they're trying to make it competitive. WoW has a PvP system which is essentially the same as Diablo 3's PvP system.
The WoW one isn't really a E-Sport but its still competitive just like the Diablo 3 one is going to be.
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On August 11 2011 06:54 DrBoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:44 andrewlt wrote:On August 11 2011 04:56 DrBoo wrote:On August 11 2011 04:51 andrewlt wrote:On August 11 2011 02:11 DrBoo wrote:On August 11 2011 01:55 Bibdy wrote:On August 11 2011 01:39 howerpower wrote:
I'm really surprised by how many people think that real money trading is okay, even after years of Blizzard stance against it. It's the difference between an underground, black market and having everything out in the open, regulated and controlled. Anyone who supports the legalization of marijuana should be able to see the parallels. What? I never knew Marijuana could make me more powerful in the real world... I can see how you can put the two together but the thing is buying items off the RMAH causes my character to become stronger and more powerful then yours just because I have more money they you. I agree having it as a black market thing isn't good but it also limits the people who are going to do it and for the most part people get caught and banned for doing it. There might be the few people walking around with bought gear but for the most part its going to be legit people playing the game without advantage from having more money then another person. Sure some people can get all that good gear without paying but they actually have to spend a good amount of time in the game to actually get better and earn it. I have a fulltime job and I could easily buy anything I wanted in Diablo 3 from the RMAH but I just don't like the idea of being able to buy my self towards being better. Its like saying in starcraft 2 I won't bother playing for more then 30minutes a day then just buy lessons everyday instead of actually playing longer. It will probably make you better then the average person who simply plays for a few hours a day instead of only a short amount of time. Should dedication and time spent playing be eliminated by simply just paying your way to greatness instead of working hard at something to achieve it? So, basically, your entire argument against RMAH is that in Diablo 2, you can cover your eyes and pretend that nobody else is doing it. And Diablo 3 is terrible because the official RMAH shattered your illusions about how easy and widespread buying items on unofficial channels really is. What? No... not at all my argument is that you're buying power in Diablo 3 and blizzard is actively supporting it. I know people bought power in Diablo 2 but then again they never had a competitive PvP system which they're trying to implement in Diablo 3. There is no competitive PvP in Diablo 3. That's why they're not supporting it with a ladder. It's meant to be a side game, not an e-sports. People bought power in Diablo 2. It's better for the game that Blizzard will be regulating it somewhat rather than not paying attention at all. Well when they boast about their PvP system to me it seems like they're trying to make it competitive. WoW has a PvP system which is essentially the same as Diablo 3's PvP system. The WoW one isn't really a E-Sport but its still competitive just like the Diablo 3 one is going to be.
Diablo 3 won't be competitive because people will buy their way into dominating other people
this would happen whether there was RMAH or not though
WoW had arena gear creating equipment parity at least. I'm not sure if Diablo 3 will have a similar system.
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