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On July 07 2010 00:15 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 23:51 Southlight wrote:Edit2:
I still wanna see a Bo5 Smash vs Maknoon. I have no idea what would happen, but the only Panth dittos I've lost over the past month or two have been those where I get raped at an awkward timing by a jungler. It's a pretty dumb matchup though, if you don't open fort, you're screwed and the reason I beat everyone else I've run into has really boiled down to pre-game setup (I just win because of my attrition setup... they're always skimping on spears to keep their combo open when I'm sitting cozy at 260 mana). I mean, I guess I play the matchup tight, but I've never really felt like someone came onto the lane with a fighting chance because of pre-game specs.
I'm not curious about the 1v1, because I'm pretty sure that'll be a stalemate, or would be affected more by a jungler or Soraka ult. I'm more curious about how you two would fare when it comes to ganking and counterganking and all that bizarre shit - as of right now I think Maknoon is less likely to have bizarre ragetilt suicide games than you (ie. more consistent) but I've seen you have more ridiculous games than him (the only time I've seen him roll is when he kicked your TF's ass, ironically enough lolol).
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On July 07 2010 00:20 Slaughter wrote:
Are potions that necessary in later levels? I have yet to use anything outside of hp and mana pots but everyone always talks about using them.
I don't really use Elixirs, except for Oracle's- maybe they're better on some champions than on others.
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On July 07 2010 00 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:18 Southlight wrote:
The difference between having 50 creep kills and having 65 is less than 300 gold. As a trade-off if you get pummeled out of your lane, as Pantheon, by a superior harasser (ie. Kennen, a defensive mastery Pantheon, Kassadin, etc.) then you're pretty fucked out of the game, barring a miracle.
300 gold is 9 hp potions. Do defensive masteries save you 1800 hp in comparison to offensive?
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On July 07 2010 00:20 Slaughter wrote:
Are potions that necessary in later levels? I have yet to use anything outside of hp and mana pots but everyone always talks about using them.
Potions are nice, but very hero dependant, primarily because they're an expensive temporary boost. Pantheon is almost always chugging Forts, because the extra HP (lots of tower diving) and the extra damage (cost-effective) is fantastic. Brilliance Elixirs are a lot more of a toss-up, as the actual AP/CD given by them aren't always that useful. Agility you see a lot on DPS heroes or heroes that're reliant on crits (IE Twitch, Gangplank, etc.)
As a general rule of thumb, if there's a critical fight incoming, it's much better than Pot up as much as possible to break the fight one way or another, because the Pots are definitely game-changing, and winning a crucial teamfight can "pay for itself."
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Speaking of which, Mog, I wanna play you 1v1 Cho vs Pantheon. I really want to see how hard I'm gonna get zoned and if I can prevent it with sick skillshots.
I imagine you'll just level Spear on me and I won't be able to handle it but who knows? I think Cho has a really strong early game and if I can avoid eating a HSS with a well-timed cleanse, mitigate spear damage with passive and regen pendant and get to 6 while landing a few ruptures I'll have a shot.
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On July 07 2010 00:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 00 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:18 Southlight wrote:
The difference between having 50 creep kills and having 65 is less than 300 gold. As a trade-off if you get pummeled out of your lane, as Pantheon, by a superior harasser (ie. Kennen, a defensive mastery Pantheon, Kassadin, etc.) then you're pretty fucked out of the game, barring a miracle. 300 gold is 9 hp potions. Do defensive masteries save you 1800 hp in comparison to offensive?
As Smash said, I'm being generous in giving you a 65 vs 50, because usually if you lose a lane you're not gonna get any creep kills, LOL. Pantheon is one of those heroes that's all-or-nothing - you're either winning a lane and getting as many creep kills as you want, or you're losing the lane and you have to play really safe. At that point, if you're fucked and you're going to die every time you get caught, no, the 9 hp potions is really not gonna help you, because you pose no threat to the other Pantheon. All it means is you're being required to dump 300 gold into potions to stay alive which is really not where you want to be with a snowball champ.
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On July 07 2010 00:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 00 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:18 Southlight wrote:
The difference between having 50 creep kills and having 65 is less than 300 gold. As a trade-off if you get pummeled out of your lane, as Pantheon, by a superior harasser (ie. Kennen, a defensive mastery Pantheon, Kassadin, etc.) then you're pretty fucked out of the game, barring a miracle. 300 gold is 9 hp potions. Do defensive masteries save you 1800 hp in comparison to offensive?
yea, it will, but that's also very much beside the point because a defensive specced Panth is going to last hit more than an offensive specced Panth, simply due to having a bigger lane presence. I mean, comeon, starting at level 3, you auto-crit ANYWAY, so when you're last hitting, it's not like you fall short because you didn't take that brute force and offensive mastery! You overkill the shit out of minions, even with a defensive spec, and if you're halfway decent, you don't even need that to know how to last hit like a champ without extra damage from masteries and runes.
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On July 07 2010 00:25 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Speaking of which, Mog, I wanna play you 1v1 Cho vs Pantheon. I really want to see how hard I'm gonna get zoned and if I can prevent it with sick skillshots.
I imagine you'll just level Spear on me and I won't be able to handle it but who knows? I think Cho has a really strong early game and if I can avoid eating a HSS with a well-timed cleanse, mitigate spear damage with passive and regen pendant and get to 6 while landing a few ruptures I'll have a shot.
By the by it's not uncommon for Smash to not have any kills 1v1 solo mid, as a lot of players at this namedrop level are comfortable playing against Panth and simply play to not die. A lot of the snowballing starts to occur after he gets his ult and ganks people down - then when he comes sauntering back to mid you start seeing this ridiculously strong Panth that gets stronger and stronger and you feel a bit helpless <- it's what happens when I play against Panths solo mid with Ashe. Just be aware about that if/when you 1v1 him 
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On July 07 2010 00:25 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Speaking of which, Mog, I wanna play you 1v1 Cho vs Pantheon. I really want to see how hard I'm gonna get zoned and if I can prevent it with sick skillshots.
I imagine you'll just level Spear on me and I won't be able to handle it but who knows? I think Cho has a really strong early game and if I can avoid eating a HSS with a well-timed cleanse, mitigate spear damage with passive and regen pendant and get to 6 while landing a few ruptures I'll have a shot.
in the abstract, cho has everything needed to be a pain in Pantheon's ass, so I actually wouldn't be surprised to see you at least stick with me :p. I've never had to play the matchup, but again, theorycrafting about it makes me think Cho will do just fine.
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My friend, who plays a damn good cho mid, couldn't handle Kat. I'm not sure if he could handle Pantheon either but I know a well-playd Kat can be a huge pain for pretty much any mid. Never seen Kat vs Panth or Panth vs Cho though.
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On July 07 2010 00 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:04 GenericTerranPlayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 23:50 Mogwai wrote:
well, at least he got ghost + ignite right...
EDIT: I'm over +50 w/l with just Pantheon now and I run into namedrops pretty routinely when I solo queue. sorry, but if you're running boots of mobility on Pantheon, I'm 100% certain that I know better than you on this matter. I suppose you run mercury treads? Not everyone has the fortune of being at a higher elo. It's no use going 14/5/1 with annie (my team had 22 kills) when the ashe, tf and heimer each go 1/13/X unrelated: fuck matchmaking
Hey just wondering, can I know your summoner name?
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Kat's a worse matchup for Cho because it's a bit harder to predict Kat's harassment, while I think you can "predict" a Pantheon a bit more easily (IIRC Aegis range is a bit shorter than Spear, so if he steps in beyond a certain point you can pre-emptive rupture to ruin a combo). Might be wrong, though. Also Kat lowers heals so Cho's laning power passive gets ruined, and Kat can dodge good ruptures with reflex Shunpo.
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Panth beats Kat with a Fort Pot and basically stalemates her with boots, but I think Kat is more abusive vs. the more obscure mids.
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Time to vent:
My W/L record keeps hovering around 50% no matter what I do...I was +4 recently then I lost 6, yes 6 in a row.
It's for about a million different reasons too:
- A Shen who is Summoner level 17, never played another hero except Shen, and has no idea what other champ abilities do. He kept asking me how Garen and Shaco could kill him.
- A Shaco carry on the other team who goes 30/5. He used two snowballs and fed off bad lane opponents until he ripped through me like I was paper on Amumu (or Nasus, I forget which).
- I disconnect for 3 min. We were picking up steam and had just taken the advantage tower-wise. I get back just in time to see our nexus go down.
On the other hand I did have one of my most satisfying wins in a while yesterday. We team-queue only to find out that one of our friends who tried to queue at work obviously had a bad connection. It was 4v5 from the start. I went 5/0/7 or something as Amumu with 2xsunfires, and Rylai's. I love just being able to walk next to champs to kill them.
In conclusion, I'm sick of losing due to things that are beyond my control. How do you guys deal/ what are your horrible experiences?
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On July 07 2010 00:34 Southlight wrote:
Kat's a worse matchup for Cho because it's a bit harder to predict Kat's harassment, while I think you can "predict" a Pantheon a bit more easily (IIRC Aegis range is a bit shorter than Spear, so if he steps in beyond a certain point you can pre-emptive rupture to ruin a combo). Might be wrong, though. Also Kat lowers heals so Cho's laning power passive gets ruined, and Kat can dodge good ruptures with reflex Shunpo.
Aegis range = Spear Shot range. I think a large part of what makes me a better pantheon than most is that I keep my harassment and comboing unpredictable in hopes of baiting responses. I do a lot of shit where I'll just aegis -> auto-attack -> spear shot people to draw their cleanse without wasting HSS mana and sometimes I'll play really tight distance games, catch someone in range and then just run at them to autoattack, which pushes them further off the lane, then I turn and start last hitting minions, which again is just a way that I can push people around without actually spending my mana.
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i kill babies, then hide them in the garage ^^
srsly tho, u just got to assume going into the game that retarded shit is gonna happen, then when good stuff happens its so much better, so u forget the dumbasses.
Edit: this is @ waveofshadow's post if that wasnt obvious
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On July 07 2010 00:10 Shikyo wrote:
Some things for people who ran away off the chat before I could say something:
First, don't build as crit for gang unless you have all the necessary runes and are lvl 30, build tank with 2x heart of gold, then banshees or wardens depending on what they have, get atmas, then get whatever you need to tank them, preferably something that has hp. It's a lot more forgiving.
Second, as Twitch you never get Bloodrazors, your job isn't to kill the tanks in the first place, open 2-3 Avarice blades depending on how fast you can get them(after 10 mins its pretty bad to get any, after 12 mins never get any). After that go for infinity edge, then scepter, and now if they stack armor get Last Whisper, then Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster, and then survivability if you need some or just another Bloodthirster.
Third, just don't play as Heimerdinger if you're new, pick Ashe or Annie or Ryze or something really simple and straight-forward until you understand something about the game.
Shikyo if you're going to jump in a game with a bunch of newbs (me included) and then not get on vent like the rest of your team then please just keep your in game chatter to constructive comments and game-related advice instead of yelling at everyone for our loss. You're just as much to blame for not using the single best tool there is for team games, voice chat.
And I took you off my friends list. I don't care how many wins your main has, I'd rather play with someone that has a good attitude and loses than someone who complains the whole game.
And by the way, I went crit plank at the advice of a teammate. On vent.
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Actually ever since they changed the way XP and IP are rewarded, I don't mind losing when it's clearly not my fault. Back with FWOTD, you'd get around 350 XP and 250 IP for the first win, around 120/90 for other wins, and like 80/50 for losses.
Now, it's ~150 XP / 100 IP for wins (~250 IP for FWOTD) and ~100 / 70 for losses. The difference is negligible. As long as I'm playing well and my skills are improving, the outcome of a solo queue match doesn't phase me.
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On July 06 2010 23:47 Mogwai wrote:
again... misguided. I'm willing to guess you haven't seen nearly as many NuNus as Veigars or Eves, and the sheer numbers of the more popular sucky characters has led to you seeing more competent ones.
you probably just made the yeti angry, I hear people who do that won't like the yeti.
I dunno, maybe every time I see a Nunu play they happen to suck or have a bad game. Whenever there's a Nunu on my team, they have a mediocre laning presence, they're useless as soon as midgame hits, and go on to lose me the game; whenever there's a Nunu on the enemy team, they have a mediocre laning presence, they're useless as soon as midgame hits, and go on to win me the game. Every. Single. Time.
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maybe I should play NuNu on my smurf with you to give you some faith in the yeti. :p
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EPT
