EPTEdit:
For the record, Nunu Soraka is a terrible lane because Nunu doesn't use mana enough to make laning with Soraka worth it.
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Edit: For the record, Nunu Soraka is a terrible lane because Nunu doesn't use mana enough to make laning with Soraka worth it. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:33 Mogwai wrote: I think it's really misguided to talk about him at the same level of fail as Veigar or Eve. I consider him to be flat out worse than Veigar and Eve, actually. I've seen a good Eve win games- repeatedly. All I ever see Nunu doing is losing games. | ||
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:15 Mogwai wrote: i'm pretty much the best pantheon ever and my most recent shift in pantheon setup is running: 0/18/12 masteries (3 armor, 3 magic resist, 3 strength of spirit, 2 defensive mastery, 3 harden skin, 4 veteran's scars, 3 perserverence, 1 haste, 4 awareness, 3 meditation, 1 utility mastery) Armor Pen on both Marks and Quints, Mp5pL on both Glyphs and Seals In other words, you don't forego mana regen runes and masteries, because if you do, you get screwed on items because you simply need to get mana regen there to keep up and masteries and runes are much better at replacing the need for a meki pendant than they are at replacing the need for a long sword. Maknoon runs the same rune setup, but has more in defensive masteries and less in utility than I do, but I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that my setup is optimal for early game. I disagree dude. 9/0/21 Ghost/Ignite is probably a better way to play Panth. And i'm not talking out of my butt i usually go 16+/1/X on my games, on top of landing firstblood and likely the next two kills. I use Armor pen quints and marks, mp regen/lvl seals and magicresist/lvl glyphs. And i get (normally) get a kill a minute from about lvl 6 onwards. The point of the build is that you're definitely landing a kill every time you aegis or jump someone, and ignite + ghost helps kill anyone thick/getting away. I love short cooldowns and I practise prudent fighting. IMHO taking defensive masteries is a waste: if you're picking your fights properly and ganking often, you won't be needing that damage migitation. As long as every fight starts on your terms with a jump or aegis+hss people won't be able to react. and fyi i use boots of mobility. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:37 Southlight wrote: Why does Nunu need someone to keep heroes away? It's the same thing I do with Taric, you just go bash creep and soak up whatever damage they decide to throw my way. He'll falter to overwhelming damage if his lanemate sucks, but so does Taric. If his lanemate is any decent offensively then he can just beat on the creep, soak up any damage he takes (waste enemy time), and pewpew them with the snowball. Taric has better burst damage, a longer range nuke, a heal with half as much CD, bonus armor for himself and his teammate, and he can keep his teammate healed up. Taric can go for the kill with Shatter + Dazzle + a good teammate, he doesn't run oom because he doesn't have to spam his offensive abilities- the threat of comboing them into a kill is enough to keep enemies at bay. Nunu can beat you up with Ice Blast, but it's just not very scary in terms of getting you killed during the laning phase- hence he doesn't keep enemies at bay, he doesn't get to take advantage of his passive, and all he does is stay back and eat a minion every now and then. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:41 GenericTerranPlayer wrote: I disagree dude. 9/0/21 Ghost/Ignite is probably a better way to play Panth. And i'm not talking out of my butt i usually go 16+/1/X on my games, on top of landing firstblood and likely the next two kills. I use Armor pen quints and marks, mp regen/lvl seals and magicresist/lvl glyphs. And i get (normally) get a kill a minute from about lvl 6 onwards. The point of the build is that you're definitely landing a kill every time you aegis or jump someone, and ignite + ghost helps kill anyone thick/getting away. I love short cooldowns and I practise prudent fighting. IMHO taking defensive masteries is a waste: if you're picking your fights properly and ganking often, you won't be needing that damage migitation. As long as every fight starts on your terms with a jump or aegis+hss people won't be able to react. and fyi i use boots of mobility. I disagree, dude, 21/9/0 Cleanse/Flash is probably a better way to play Panth. And i'm not talking out of my butt i usually go 16+/1/X on my games, on top of landing first blood and likely the next ten kills. I use Magic pen quints and marks, hp regen/level seals and cooldown glyphs. And I get (normally) a kill a minute from lvl 6 onwards. The point of the build is to get a lot of AP by opening Philosopher's Stone so you don't get buttfucked by harassing champions, then making Rylai and Zhonya so you can slow people will your skills and you take advantage of Rylai's HP. Then you get Will of the Ancients so you're a good teamfight help, then make Hextech Gunblade so you can snare people. Because he's got a nice auto-attack building hybrid late-game is very good. As long as you Ult -> Gunblade -> Aegis -> HSS you'll always land a kill, and they can't run from you because your spear slows them, and you have a lot of HP and damage. I run Boots of Swiftness, FYI. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
you probably just made the yeti angry, I hear people who do that won't like the yeti. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
EDIT: I'm over +50 w/l with just Pantheon now and I run into namedrops pretty routinely when I solo queue. sorry, but if you're running boots of mobility on Pantheon, I'm 100% certain that I know better than you on this matter. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
They had a solid team of ashe, trist, warwick, annie and shen. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
As the game goes on Taric does significantly less damage than Nunu. Incomparably worse damage. And when it comes to position control in teamfights Taric hardly touches Nunu, as all Taric can do is stun and run in and hope people beat on him (hint: no one really does). Nunu, on the other hand, does what's almost unthinkable on a tank: in tandem with Banshee's Veil he forces at least two CCs on him, and/or forces people to Flash/Cleanse/Ghost out of his ult, and/or gets his ult off and takes off a huge chunk of HP. If the other team messes up their teamwork, you'll often get results like one guy CCs him, 2 guys blow a Flash to get out pronto, and he still catches 2 ppl with a huge nuke. Edit: In other words, Nunu forces bad decisions, and his laning presence is one of the best for a tank - only Taric and Shen have really comparable laning power (I would rate Nunu more annoying in lane than Shen though). He also adds the most aggregate DPS in teamfights because an Ashe with IE buffed by Nunu is a whole lot of pain, and he himself provides a lot of nuke damage while also causing the other team to have to scurry around a bit - time spent moving is more time spent taking damage and less time spent DOING damage. Edit2: I still wanna see a Bo5 Smash vs Maknoon. | ||
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:50 Mogwai wrote: well, at least he got ghost + ignite right... EDIT: I'm over +50 w/l with just Pantheon now and I run into namedrops pretty routinely when I solo queue. sorry, but if you're running boots of mobility on Pantheon, I'm 100% certain that I know better than you on this matter. I suppose you run mercury treads? Not everyone has the fortune of being at a higher elo. It's no use going 14/5/1 with annie (my team had 22 kills) when the ashe, tf and heimer each go 1/13/X unrelated: fuck matchmaking | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
you should find a few half-decent people to premade with to farm ELO up until the point where not everyone sucks and then you should solo queue a bunch. The lower levels blow enough dick that I think taking the ELO-gain hit is well worth being able to trust at least a couple of your teammates. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
First, don't build as crit for gang unless you have all the necessary runes and are lvl 30, build tank with 2x heart of gold, then banshees or wardens depending on what they have, get atmas, then get whatever you need to tank them, preferably something that has hp. It's a lot more forgiving. Second, as Twitch you never get Bloodrazors, your job isn't to kill the tanks in the first place, open 2-3 Avarice blades depending on how fast you can get them(after 10 mins its pretty bad to get any, after 12 mins never get any). After that go for infinity edge, then scepter, and now if they stack armor get Last Whisper, then Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster, and then survivability if you need some or just another Bloodthirster. Third, just don't play as Heimerdinger if you're new, pick Ashe or Annie or Ryze or something really simple and straight-forward until you understand something about the game. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
http://www.lolbase.net/matches/view/US28007195  Just so we're clear, though, defensive masteries make a huge, HUGE difference early-game, and a 21/0/9 Pantheon will always lose out in attrition to a 0/21/9 Pantheon, for instance, if both are of equal skill level. An example of the display of defensive masteries is jungling Rammus - with defensive masteries you can take down Golem and be at 300 hp. If you go without, you skirt with death. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 07 2010 00 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:10 Southlight wrote: He does indeed appear to go Merc Treads, because he's a kill-hogging ass http://www.lolbase.net/matches/view/US28007195 Just so we're clear, though, defensive masteries make a huge, HUGE difference early-game, and a 21/0/9 Pantheon will always lose out in attrition to a 0/21/9 Pantheon, for instance, if both are of equal skill level. An example of the display of defensive masteries is jungling Rammus - with defensive masteries you can take down Golem and be at 300 hp. If you go without, you skirt with death. A 21-0-9 pantheon will get some more lasthits in most cases, though, which is quite significant. On July 07 2010 00 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 00 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:12 Slaughter wrote: Whats with all the Veigar sucks stuff? He is an awesome support/nuker who fucks team fights up for the enemy a lot with event horizon. I love him. Maybe at level 16 his failings just haven't shown? He's absolute garbage until like lvl 18 or so because before that he has to use all his mana on farming and can't harrass or lane control at all. And at lvl 16 the failings especially show, it's around lvl 30 with full runeset that it becomes bearable, unless you run clarity. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:51 Southlight wrote:Edit2: I still wanna see a Bo5 Smash vs Maknoon. I have no idea what would happen, but the only Panth dittos I've lost over the past month or two have been those where I get raped at an awkward timing by a jungler. It's a pretty dumb matchup though, if you don't open fort, you're screwed and the reason I beat everyone else I've run into has really boiled down to pre-game setup (I just win because of my attrition setup... they're always skimping on spears to keep their combo open when I'm sitting cozy at 260 mana). I mean, I guess I play the matchup tight, but I've never really felt like someone came onto the lane with a fighting chance because of pre-game specs. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Re: Veigar The reason why I find him terrible is he has ZERO laning presence. He cannot and will not win any solo mid fights, and in a 2v2 aside from his nice big round stun circle he doesn't DO anything. All he does is sit there and last-hit creep for like 30 minutes. So what happens if you enter combat at level 4 via a gank? Well you can stun, and then you can hit someone for like 100 damage. Oooh, ahhh, so he's useless early-game, aside from the stun (at which point you might as well have like, Sion or something). Well then how long does it take for him to start killing people? Before, you used to be able to do like 800 damage with his ult at level 6 against a caster. Now he'll do like 300, if that much. Plus his weak-ass Q at early-levels. So he's got a nice big stun (if they run into it) and nothing else. If you're going to pick a hero that has obnoxious area control why not play Janna, who on top of her obnoxious area control gives everyone a passive movement speed buff, has a great shield, and heals? I mean for a long time all Veigar basically will do is do less damage than almost every other hero in the game, and have a big stun circle. ????? | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:41 GenericTerranPlayer wrote: I disagree dude. 9/0/21 Ghost/Ignite is probably a better way to play Panth. And i'm not talking out of my butt i usually go 16+/1/X on my games, on top of landing firstblood and likely the next two kills. I use Armor pen quints and marks, mp regen/lvl seals and magicresist/lvl glyphs. And i get (normally) get a kill a minute from about lvl 6 onwards. The point of the build is that you're definitely landing a kill every time you aegis or jump someone, and ignite + ghost helps kill anyone thick/getting away. I love short cooldowns and I practise prudent fighting. IMHO taking defensive masteries is a waste: if you're picking your fights properly and ganking often, you won't be needing that damage migitation. As long as every fight starts on your terms with a jump or aegis+hss people won't be able to react. and fyi i use boots of mobility. Trust us, we've all been where you are and we all know where you're going. Listen to Mogwai, he's got a lot of experience here seeing as he plays against really, really good players and you play against a combination of feeders, baddies, and smurfs. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 07 2010 00:13 Shikyo wrote: A 21-0-9 pantheon will get some more lasthits in most cases, though, which is quite significant. errrr... no... not even close. you come out on the lane with 21/0/9 vs. me, I guarantee you'll be staring at at least 10 less CS by the time of your first back... and tbh, that's being really generous to you and assuming I'm fucking up my last hitting. Zoning them out of the lane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hitting for like 10 extra damage vs. creeps when it comes to last hitting. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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