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On September 26 2010 02:39 myopia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:33 Crucifix wrote:On September 26 2010 02:29 myopia wrote:On September 26 2010 02:24 redtooth wrote:
shen's not viable? news to me. yeah viable isn't the right word, he's still useable. He's just not good at much of anything, and there's 5-10 other champs that can tank better than he can. List me better tanks other than Shen. At least 5, gogog. Alistair / Amumu / Galio / Nasus / Rammus / Singed / Taric / Udyr Shen is better than these in some areas, but when it comes to teamfights where dealing damage / disabling is just as/more important than absorbing damage, I'd rather have any of these guys on my team. again, I don't HATE Shen. I still play him. I just want to see him reworked/buffed a bit.
are you crazy?
alistar is not better, he's worse. he was the shit (cream of the crop t1) back in the healing days but nerf to heal and metagame shift = bad.
amumu - yeah but he's banned a ton
galio - kinda, he does a good amount of damage but if you build ap/magic pen he just gets blown up if you build tank then he doesn't do much damage, and his ulti can get interrupted easily. he's either a beast or doesn't do much
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
rammus - quite good, same level imo
singed - how to farm all game and carry, different story worse in organized games
taric - not a tank really, more of a support
udyr - same level different story
shen's still a beast and wins games due to having great cc/global ult/good damage
you're thinking of only team fights. in that case the best team would be kayle/zilean/twitch/kogmaw/amumu or something retarded, but fortunately there are many other factors. the only beef with shen i have is how squishy he is and how reliant on items. if he gets farmed theres no easy way to get around a good shen.
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![[image loading]](http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7516/panthsonasogood.png)
poppy soloed, we started out down 1-8 and they just started 5 man pushing us at like 10 minutes. then the absurd power of late game tanktheon powered with sona support rapestroyed their face. games are stupid at this elo.
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On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams.
Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around.
Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff.
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I don't like shizuhara, he is sometimes incredibly terrible or very average and almost always plays poppy.
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On September 26 2010 04:51 Iplaythings wrote:
which elo? :o
The late-15 early 1600 elo hell.
Zing!
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On September 26 2010 04:50 myopia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams. Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around. Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff.
he doesn't have a global ult.
by building sheen you're forgoing crucial tank items imo, i'd prefer a sunfire over sheen. triforce is even more eh, i'd only get it late game.
he's better in team fights not doubt but that's about it
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First rated game, went 4-0-6 with 250 creep kills as Anivia while a 0-10-2 Xin Zhao (25min game) fed Miss Fortune. This games fun! (Like 13-25 kill game at the end)
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On September 26 2010 05:03 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 04:50 myopia wrote:On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams. Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around. Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff. he doesn't have a global ult. by building sheen you're forgoing crucial tank items imo, i'd prefer a sunfire over sheen. triforce is even more eh, i'd only get it late game. he's better in team fights not doubt but that's about it
Do you play Nasus much? I main him, building sheen-tank-triforce-more tank. He's a hard-to-kill killing machine. (Sunfire is bad on him btw, it's mostly redundant after E+R, items like Aegis, Randuins, and Banshees give him more of what he needs.)
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On September 26 2010 05:03 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 04:50 myopia wrote:On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams. Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around. Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff. he doesn't have a global ult. by building sheen you're forgoing crucial tank items imo, i'd prefer a sunfire over sheen. triforce is even more eh, i'd only get it late game. he's better in team fights not doubt but that's about it
why do people constantly say stuff like this? of course you will prefer a sunfire to a sheen, it costs double.... its like saying youd prefer a sunfire to a heart of gold....
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On September 26 2010 05:23 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 05:03 shawster wrote:On September 26 2010 04:50 myopia wrote:On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams. Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around. Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff. he doesn't have a global ult. by building sheen you're forgoing crucial tank items imo, i'd prefer a sunfire over sheen. triforce is even more eh, i'd only get it late game. he's better in team fights not doubt but that's about it why do people constantly say stuff like this? of course you will prefer a sunfire to a sheen, it costs double.... its like saying youd prefer a sunfire to a heart of gold....
here i'll reword it to bother you less since you seem to be annoyed alot
i would rather have a chain vest(or w/e it's called 700 gold) and a null magic mantle on nasus then a sheen.
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On September 26 2010 05:25 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 05:23 Rice wrote:On September 26 2010 05:03 shawster wrote:On September 26 2010 04:50 myopia wrote:On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams. Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around. Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff. he doesn't have a global ult. by building sheen you're forgoing crucial tank items imo, i'd prefer a sunfire over sheen. triforce is even more eh, i'd only get it late game. he's better in team fights not doubt but that's about it why do people constantly say stuff like this? of course you will prefer a sunfire to a sheen, it costs double.... its like saying youd prefer a sunfire to a heart of gold.... here i'll reword it to bother you less since you seem to be annoyed alot i would rather have a chain vest(or w/e it's called 700 gold) and a null magic mantle on nasus then a sheen.
well thats probably why your nasus somehow does less damage than shen.....
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On September 26 2010 04:48 Mogwai wrote:poppy soloed, we started out down 1-8 and they just started 5 man pushing us at like 10 minutes. then the absurd power of late game tanktheon powered with sona support rapestroyed their face. games are stupid at this elo.
Tanktheon? Ok, you have Mercs and I have Swifties, and I would be working towards IE instead of getting a HoG, but I get GB/B/Veil/Atmas on Ashe too. Am I actually playing Tank Ashe?
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Why the hell would you have swifities.
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England2670 Posts
In my long time experience of playing Nasus, with Preferred Boots, Aegis, Tri-Force you don't do a whole lot of dying. I've quite often gone straight for a Starks afterwards and still tanked entire teams as effectively as any other tank. Nasus doesn't need many items to tank on the grounds that he just doesn't give a fuck.
Shen is a great tank as well. Both of them are really good at what they do and they do things differently. Both good intitiators, both do good damage (Nasus does more) and both have good control (Shen has better).
As for Shawster saying he'd rather have defence over a sheen. Well, it's your choice, but I would rarely consider skipping Sheen on Nasus. The extra mana and damage is crucial to how Nasus should be played.
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I know a lot of people feel strongly about Shen either way. I play him occasionally and find him very fun and effective on the right team but with some bad weaknesses.
Biggest strengths:
1. Very strong laning phase. Not Garen or Taric strong, but you can definitely enable your lane partner. Level Q and E, and you can babysit and be a legitimate threat.
2. Damage control. The degree to which Shen can turn things around from bad to WTFPWNED in the early/mid game is his strongest asset. If you don't have map awareness, you will suck hard with Shen because he shines here.
3. Midgame farming ability. You can just sit in a lane and farm while your team runs around doing whatever. If someone ganks you, you can escape easily or even kill them (if they autoattack). If your team enters a fight, just ult the right person, taunt, and turn it all around. This one is a seriously overlooked advantage by a lot of people. Not many tanks except Singed get to just farm to their heart's content away from the team.
Biggest Weaknesses:
1. Energy
2. Energy
3. Energy
If Shen was purely a CD hero like Garen or Kat, he would own so fucking hard in lane and would be impressively strong lategame imo. His energy is especially crippling in lategame, where you WANT to spam all your abilities in a teamfight, but you have to pick between E and some other skill instead of being able to use all 3 + ult.
If they made his energy costs like 5 less at every rank, it would do him a lot of good, though I don't think that would be enough lategame. If you play Shen, make sure you rape in the midgame or you will have trouble lategame.
Sidenote: I used to think his W was pure trash, but now I kind of like it since it lasts such a long time. I use it frequently lategame as a turtle stance shield.
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On September 26 2010 05:41 Flicky wrote:
In my long time experience of playing Nasus, with Preferred Boots, Aegis, Tri-Force you don't do a whole lot of dying. I've quite often gone straight for a Starks afterwards and still tanked entire teams as effectively as any other tank. Nasus doesn't need many items to tank on the grounds that he just doesn't give a fuck.
Shen is a great tank as well. Both of them are really good at what they do and they do things differently. Both good intitiators, both do good damage (Nasus does more) and both have good control (Shen has better).
As for Shawster saying he'd rather have defence over a sheen. Well, it's your choice, but I would rarely consider skipping Sheen on Nasus. The extra mana and damage is crucial to how Nasus should be played.
I'm curious how Nasus should be played? I tried him a few times and i can't figure out how to tank with him. Isn't he squishy if you forgo tank items for a sheen later triforce? How can he tank with only an aegis?
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On September 26 2010 05:41 HazMat wrote:
Why the hell would you have swifities.
1) Ashe has very low base speed, many champs that are dangerous for her start off with 10-20 more MSpd than her. With Swifties you can even that out because most of them will take Mercs.
2) If you are CC'd and can't cleanse it (or avoid it in the first place), then you will most likely die even with Mercs because of how squishy Ashe is. I run Ghost/Cleanse, the only other setup I would consider is Ghost/Flash.
3) You can flee much easier if you are about to be ganked while pushing a sidelane etc.
4) Zerkers are pretty much useless in my Volley-centered build.
5) Mobilities will not help you during a fight, Swifties allow you to place better Volleys and avoid danger.
I have tried Mercs, but the loss of speed really makes a huge difference from my experience.
Banshee's Veil also helps avoid CC and is usually the item I get right after GB/B.
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On September 26 2010 05:32 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 05:25 shawster wrote:On September 26 2010 05:23 Rice wrote:On September 26 2010 05:03 shawster wrote:On September 26 2010 04:50 myopia wrote:On September 26 2010 04:41 shawster wrote:
nasus - nasus doesn't do as much damage without ult isn't as mobile doesn't have hard cc
Are you sure? Nasus doesn't do as much damage as Shen? Without the ult, Q + Triforce hits for 700+ every few seconds. With the ult, Nasus is a slayer of entire teams. Mobility, Nasus has 10 more base ms and I run him with utility and MS quints. He gets around. Yeah he doesn't have hard CC but he does have a 5 second slow and an AOE armor debuff. he doesn't have a global ult. by building sheen you're forgoing crucial tank items imo, i'd prefer a sunfire over sheen. triforce is even more eh, i'd only get it late game. he's better in team fights not doubt but that's about it why do people constantly say stuff like this? of course you will prefer a sunfire to a sheen, it costs double.... its like saying youd prefer a sunfire to a heart of gold.... here i'll reword it to bother you less since you seem to be annoyed alot i would rather have a chain vest(or w/e it's called 700 gold) and a null magic mantle on nasus then a sheen. well thats probably why your nasus somehow does less damage than shen.....
nasus will always do less damage then shen without his ulti on, with or without his sheen. once he gets triforce then that's another story
anyways that's just my way of thought we'll agree to disagree
anyways stream going on lulz www.livestream.com/shawz
i wish i livestream worked today wow it crashes every 2mins
i was 22-2-16 carry yi, team was somthing like 0-15 then i carried and we won was an amazing game  oh well
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EPT
