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On May 08 2010 12:16 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 12:10 Ace wrote:
You know the one thing I hate about these threads is that for some reason when you don't root for superstar X vs a team idiots think you hate that player. Jeez I wish TL would go back to the days of banning people for being annoying.
edit: and yea read the salary cap rules if you want to begin to understand why small market teams continually suffer without some great luck, and why players really do sometimes GO FOR THE MONEY. NBA owners are fucking raking in cash. Yeah, that owner side incentives needs to be re-worked, looking at you Golden State. Like if your team continually ends in the bottom 3 of your conference (for like 3 seasons), you don't receive any of the luxury tax pie.
GSW actually isnt doing that bad
Attendance: 739,120 (11th of 30)
their teams are the most loyal of all fans in the NBA, aside from the clippers, with lakers being right beside you hard not to bandwagon, but they are still 20th.
Attendance: 670,063 (20th of 30)
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wow one time you get Dunked on by D.Rose and now youre scoring 20+ points in a quarter in the playoffs. MAD PROPS.
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On May 08 2010 09:17 Ace wrote: Watch the games objectively and not from a fan standpoint and you'll realize why some people hate the hype.
As some one who hated the hype for the first 4-5 years he was in the NBA, I think I can say objectively that he now deserves the hype. To complain about his supposed lack of a post game I think is pretty funny, because he's not a PF or C. He's a wing player who plays wing or point as well as any one in the game. He is the best player in basketball, not because Nike says so, but because he proves it any/every time he steps on the court.
Statistics back up what the human eye can already see.
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With Lebron's size and speed it's a relevant point of interest. He plays small forward but is built like a power forward. I'm not saying he is terrible because he doesn't have a post game - I'm saying you can't call him the best when not only is his game not as refined as Kobe or Wade but he doesn't even do what people his size already can do.
Lebron was getting hyped as the best thing since Jordan not only because of his potential but also the shitty situation the NBA was in after the guy left. It's no mistake that as soon as Lebron came from DAY 1 there were Jordan and Kobe comparisons. Nevermind that it wasn't until last year and after the Olympic trip with Kobe that he really started even looking like the hype machine we expected. 2 years of sick stats doesn't make you the best player in the NBA. Otherwise we'd be clamoring for McGrady, Dirk, Timmy and a host of other players to get the NBA MVP award. Overall he still doesn't have the overall ability of Wade or Kobe. Yea he's a better athlete but he isn't even close to a complete basketball player as the other 2.
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If there's one thing that impresses me about the Suns, it's the way that they've slowly developed their bench players into being very solid contributors, way more than a lot of other teams.
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If there is one thing that impresses me about the suns is that they made the playoffs with making next to no changes from last year and are winning alot of games and winning in the playoffs. Ok, well if you think the coach was the problem then problem solved.
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On May 08 2010 20:03 Ace wrote:
With Lebron's size and speed it's a relevant point of interest. He plays small forward but is built like a power forward. I'm not saying he is terrible because he doesn't have a post game - I'm saying you can't call him the best when not only is his game not as refined as Kobe or Wade but he doesn't even do what people his size already can do.
It seems to me that you're holding his size and athleticism against him, rather than realizing that it simply makes him better. Big men develop a low post game because they know they're going to be camped out in that area of the floor looking for rebounds. Lebron can come from the 3 point line to take a rebound. He's never going to be sitting in the block waiting for an entry pass.
As far as his game not being "as refined" I'm sorry but I don't think that's true. He may not be the pure shooter that Kobe is or have quite the same ankle breaking style that Wade does, but he's a much better passer and rebounder than either of those two, and in terms of range and shooting % he's actually a better 3 point shooter than either of them. He's also a better help defender than Kobe (about on par with Wade) and he has a completely unique ability to erase the other team's fast break because he can run down any player in the league and block anything that's not a dunk. Statistically the only area where either of those players has him beat is in Free Throw %, where Kobe beats him 81% to 76%. He's a great leader, well liked and respected by players all around the league, and he's incredibly unselfish on the court.
His game may not always look sophisticated, but partially that's because when you're 6'8" and 260 lbs of solid muscle and you're also the fastest and most athletic player on the court, you don't always need to be cute. Sometimes you can just get a half a step on a guy and then dare defenders to get in your way.
I'm not saying James is perfect. He can still get better as a 1 on 1 defender, and I suspect he's never going to be great against the fastest smallest guards in the league (remember, even Jordan couldn't defend Iverson). He can get better as a pure shooter from all ranges. I'm sure he will get better in all of those areas. HOWEVER, whether he improves or not, he's already the best all around player.
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If you look at that infamous video of Iverson crossover on Jordan, that was more "luck" on Iverson's part. He put up a decently defended jumper and happened to hit it after Jordan clearly cut off his driving lane. Now how many times did we see him do that later on in his career (even in his prime) and miss it?
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On May 09 2010 03:14 Wintermute wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 20:03 Ace wrote:
With Lebron's size and speed it's a relevant point of interest. He plays small forward but is built like a power forward. I'm not saying he is terrible because he doesn't have a post game - I'm saying you can't call him the best when not only is his game not as refined as Kobe or Wade but he doesn't even do what people his size already can do.
It seems to me that you're holding his size and athleticism against him, rather than realizing that it simply makes him better. Big men develop a low post game because they know they're going to be camped out in that area of the floor looking for rebounds. Lebron can come from the 3 point line to take a rebound. He's never going to be sitting in the block waiting for an entry pass.
That's not how it works. Players who are large for their position ALWAYS develop a post game because they will generally be bigger than their defenders, and thus able to shoot over them. In fact, developing a reliable post game and turnaround jumper was what enabled MJ (6'6", extremely strong 2 guard) to continue his dominance well after his physical gifts were gone, especially in the Washington years. The Big O was the first ever big guard in the NBA, and he made a living by backing down smaller guards and easily scoring over them. In the present day, Kobe has started to abuse the hell out of smaller guards with a great post-up game.
LeBron is a huge 3, probably closer to 6'9" than 6'8" and built like a truck. In spite of how big he is, he always gets guarded by someone smaller than him (e.g., Matt Barnes) because his speed is even more dangerous and teams have to try to keep him out of the paint and force him to shoot outside. The obvious counter to that is to simply back the smaller defender up methodically. If the double comes, he can kick it either to someone breaking to the paint or to one of his shooters. If they let him go 1on1, he can get a much closer and higher percentage shot than the usual 18-20 footer.
I'm totally with Ace/Xeris on this. Obviously LeBron is the greatest statistical monster in the game today, but I'm not convinced about him being the league's #1 player.
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On May 09 2010 03:51 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 03:14 Wintermute wrote:On May 08 2010 20:03 Ace wrote:
With Lebron's size and speed it's a relevant point of interest. He plays small forward but is built like a power forward. I'm not saying he is terrible because he doesn't have a post game - I'm saying you can't call him the best when not only is his game not as refined as Kobe or Wade but he doesn't even do what people his size already can do.
It seems to me that you're holding his size and athleticism against him, rather than realizing that it simply makes him better. Big men develop a low post game because they know they're going to be camped out in that area of the floor looking for rebounds. Lebron can come from the 3 point line to take a rebound. He's never going to be sitting in the block waiting for an entry pass. That's not how it works. Players who are large for their position ALWAYS develop a post game because they will generally be bigger than their defenders, and thus able to shoot over them. In fact, developing a reliable post game and turnaround jumper was what enabled MJ (6'6", extremely strong 2 guard) to continue his dominance well after his physical gifts were gone, especially in the Washington years. The Big O was the first ever big guard in the NBA, and he made a living by backing down smaller guards and easily scoring over them. In the present day, Kobe has started to abuse the hell out of smaller guards with a great post-up game. LeBron is a huge 3, probably closer to 6'9" than 6'8" and built like a truck. In spite of how big he is, he always gets guarded by someone smaller than him (e.g., Matt Barnes) because his speed is even more dangerous and teams have to try to keep him out of the paint and force him to shoot outside. The obvious counter to that is to simply back the smaller defender up methodically. If the double comes, he can kick it either to someone breaking to the paint or to one of his shooters. If they let him go 1on1, he can get a much closer and higher percentage shot than the usual 18-20 footer. I'm totally with Ace/Xeris on this. Obviously LeBron is the greatest statistical monster in the game today, but I'm not convinced about him being the league's #1 player.
I just started typing up something along these lines, but this is pretty much exactly the same message I wanted to convey.
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Dragic dragic dragic Dragic dragic dragicDragic dragic dragicDragic dragic dragic
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Spurs  Time for a "reverse all-kill"!
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Fuck the Spurs. This is the Suns year. I mean, fuck, just give Nash a free ring. Honorary championship ring.
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based off of who is left, orlando will take it. This year they have the same team, just with Vince Carter, and So far haven't shown any signs of losing yet.
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Can ESPN stop with Lebron's elbow? There is no problem with it.
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On May 09 2010 07:11 LunarDestiny wrote:
Can ESPN stop with Lebron's elbow? There is no problem with it.
yep. absolutely nothing wrong w/ it
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Orlando 4-0 Bobcats
Orlando 4-0 Hawks
Orlando 4-0 Cavaliers
Orlando 4-0 Lakers
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United States5162 Posts
On May 09 2010 07:35 Kenpachi wrote:
Orlando 4-0 Bobcats
Orlando 4-0 Hawks
Orlando 4-0 Cavaliers
Orlando 4-0 Lakers
Love it! I am a Magic fan, and while I doubt we'll sweep the whole playoff, I am very confidant that we have a good chance to win the championship.
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EPT
