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Civilization V + DLC's, G&K, BNW - Page 187

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Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
March 04 2014 07:37 GMT
#3721
Weird, because my "recommended actions" indicators keep telling me to build a road to her city, but that usually only happens to me in solo games between my own cities.

I guess I might as well try; if it doesn't work I'll reload so the gold wasn't wasted.

On an unrelated note, mod civs are lots of fun to play with. Some are pretty imbalanced (All ranged units have indirect fire, a range 3 machine gun and walls that provide happiness and production? Yes please.) but the surreal games that occur are really enjoyable just to play around with.
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
March 04 2014 07:43 GMT
#3722
Meh, the only thing I'd be interested in is in a balance mod. Change nothing of the core game but rebalances some policies and give something to some terrible civs. And a better AI mod I guess.

Especially since this game probably won't get more balance patch.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
March 04 2014 08:24 GMT
#3723
On March 04 2014 16:43 rezoacken wrote:
Meh, the only thing I'd be interested in is in a balance mod. Change nothing of the core game but rebalances some policies and give something to some terrible civs. And a better AI mod I guess.

Especially since this game probably won't get more balance patch.


Pretty sure those mods exist, at least they did for vanilla Civ 5. Most of them added on some tech or policies, but I've seen some that are pretty close to the core game.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
March 05 2014 01:36 GMT
#3724
I've seen a few that rebalance religion and various vanilla civs. I'm hardly a knowledgeable player, though, so I can't vouch for how well they actually do that job.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 04:34:59
March 05 2014 04:32 GMT
#3725
so I won my first civ V game today..turn 309 science victory on Emperor level! :D

I'm guessing the best players can win 100+ turns earlier with science...and on a harder difficulty.... I just don't see how, those later techs are SO DAMN EXPENSIVE! and 1500 hammers for SS parts aint no joke. I guess it probably didn't help that I only managed to grab 3 cities and didn't manage to get any RA's because everybody hated me apparently....
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 04:52:55
March 05 2014 04:50 GMT
#3726
Fastest I've seen for science are around T205 in BNW. My personal best is around 225 on deity with shoshone if I remember correctly.
Getting a T309 for a first game is nothing to be ashamed of.

It's mostly a matter of knowing the game very well, getting the right tech, a lot of little tips to get a few turns here and there etc. Sure the last tech cost a lot but once you get labs they really aren't more expansive turn wise than previous techs. I mean at the start you may need t research a 500 tech at 50 per turn it's not longer than researching a 15000 tech at 1500 per turn.

The strategy for good science per turn is only about getting a high population, rushing science techs and building science buildings asap. Running scientists specialists, getting rationalism fast and getting great scientists.
SS parts are usually easy to make while you research other techs anyway. And most player just take order and rush build the last part with a great engineer to gain a few turns.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Tarias
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands480 Posts
March 05 2014 09:20 GMT
#3727
In my experience it's also actually easier to get science faster on higher difficulties. On emperor an early trade route with your neighbor will get you maybe 2 science if your lucky. On deity these trade routes almost always get you 5 or 6 science per turn, which is better than even like the great library. Other than that you will probably get to steal more tech on deity, and have bigger research agreements as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the people winning science at turn 200 on deity would be unable to do it on emperor
Go big, or go home!
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 20:56:52
March 05 2014 20:47 GMT
#3728
That isn't really true. Tommynt one of the best player on civfanatics has 2 records of a science victory at T207 in the current BNW games of the month. One is at Immortal difficulty the other at Warlord difficulty.

While its true Caravans are very good on Deity and its easier to sell stuff to the AI you also begin the game with a lot more happiness at lower difficulty and the AI take ages to settle allowing you to take the bests spots no problem. You also have a free ride for excellent wonders like GL, HG, Petra, Pisa... And then at King and below you can even demand tribute with only a few units.

And every caravan that you would use for science are used for growth instead.

Deity level has good RA though.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-07 07:47:01
March 07 2014 07:46 GMT
#3729
~140 turns in to my new game! Only just got people to start making friendship agreements with me... (I wonder if I'm doing something wrong?)

So, new question. Does anybody know how Research Agreements work?

I've found a place that says it gives the amount you've researched in the last 8 turns (at the end of the RA) and I've found a place that says it's the median of all the techs available at the end of the agreement. Which one is correct, if either?

Also according to this:

http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?272071-Civilization-V-Brave-New-World-Fall-Patch-Released!

Does that imply that we'll both get the same out of the RA and it'll be whichever is the smaller amount of the 2?
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7584 Posts
March 07 2014 08:43 GMT
#3730
On March 07 2014 16:46 Complete wrote:
~140 turns in to my new game! Only just got people to start making friendship agreements with me... (I wonder if I'm doing something wrong?)

So, new question. Does anybody know how Research Agreements work?

I've found a place that says it gives the amount you've researched in the last 8 turns (at the end of the RA) and I've found a place that says it's the median of all the techs available at the end of the agreement. Which one is correct, if either?

Also according to this:

http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?272071-Civilization-V-Brave-New-World-Fall-Patch-Released!

Does that imply that we'll both get the same out of the RA and it'll be whichever is the smaller amount of the 2?


iirc it's the average of all techs you and your partner researched + modidiers.
Stuck.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
March 07 2014 18:04 GMT
#3731
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=514438

Think I found my answer Thx.
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-07 20:46:16
March 07 2014 20:40 GMT
#3732
On March 07 2014 17:43 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2014 16:46 Complete wrote:
~140 turns in to my new game! Only just got people to start making friendship agreements with me... (I wonder if I'm doing something wrong?)

So, new question. Does anybody know how Research Agreements work?

I've found a place that says it gives the amount you've researched in the last 8 turns (at the end of the RA) and I've found a place that says it's the median of all the techs available at the end of the agreement. Which one is correct, if either?

Also according to this:

http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?272071-Civilization-V-Brave-New-World-Fall-Patch-Released!

Does that imply that we'll both get the same out of the RA and it'll be whichever is the smaller amount of the 2?


iirc it's the average of all techs you and your partner researched + modidiers.


It changed with the latest patch. It's the MINIMUM of both partners that is applied to both (+modifiers).

Let me use some more realistic numbers. Let's say Civ A produces 3,000 beakers over the 30 turns (average is 100 bpt -- maybe their beaker count rose from 75 bpt to 125 bpt over the 30 turns). Civ B is far more advanced, generating 9,000 beakers over the 30 turns, or an average of 300 bpt.

In G&K, and in BNW until the Fall Patch, the formula for base yield of an RA (before taking account of PT or Scientific Revolution bonuses) was
50% * (your beaker count + min(your beaker count, RA partner beaker count))/6
So, for Civ A, that would be 50% * (3000 + 3000)/6, or 500 beakers, while for Civ B, that would be 50% * (9000 + 3000)/6, or 1,000 beakers.

In current BNW, the RA yield is tied to the beaker generation of the "lesser" RA partner. Since there is no more averaging, the RA divisor is now 3, rather than 6, and the formula for both RA partners is
50% * min(Civ A beakers, Civ B beakers)/3
In this example, both parties get base RA yield of 500 beakers (50% * min(3000, 9000)/3). If CivB has PT, then his yield is 750 beakers (another +25%). Adding Scientific Revolution would then yield him the 1000 beakers he would have gotten under the old formula BEFORE accounting for PT and Scientific Revolution bonuses.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2014 21:52 GMT
#3733
Heh.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 04:08:43
March 08 2014 04:08 GMT
#3734
Maybe I should work on those achievements after 600Hours of Civ V

Thhat one looks fairly hard to get.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 05:38:30
March 08 2014 05:33 GMT
#3735
On March 05 2014 13:32 Complete wrote:
so I won my first civ V game today..turn 309 science victory on Emperor level! :D

I'm guessing the best players can win 100+ turns earlier with science...and on a harder difficulty.... I just don't see how, those later techs are SO DAMN EXPENSIVE! and 1500 hammers for SS parts aint no joke. I guess it probably didn't help that I only managed to grab 3 cities and didn't manage to get any RA's because everybody hated me apparently....

Won my 2nd game this evening ^^ turn 273 science victory on Immortal level. improved by 36 turns! not sure how the hell im going to do better than that though...:S maybe getting more than 4 cities will help? not sure.

edit: although that was with poland...cuz i thought rushing through rationalism would help a lot. maybe another civ is better for science victory though.
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 06:42:55
March 08 2014 06:40 GMT
#3736
If you want to improve your science time try the following:
-Settle near mountains for observatories
-Try to get We love the king day bonuses for more growth
-Never go unhappy so to not stop growth
-Get some caravans or cargo going for food (for growth)
-Sometimes 4 cities are enough sometimes you can go as high as 7 if you have a lot of strong spots, especially if you have a lot of coasts to do many cargos.

Basically population = science.

And finally no Poland is considered the current best civ, at everything. If you want only science Mayans, Babylon and Korea are also very strong science civs.

If you can win before turn 300 you can win Deity by science imo. Deity is easier since BNW due to the AI not being as agressive as before. You can have some very peaceful deity games nowadays, making very little units.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 08:53:05
March 08 2014 08:44 GMT
#3737
A few questions in the context of trying to get the quickest science win possible (or at least discussion points):

Do you generally want to send your caravans TO the capital which has the NC/highest multiplier etc. or TO your other cities which will grow more rapidly with the extra food? (lower population will get more out of +4 food than higher). I had a pretty huge capital (purposely) but my other 3 cities really lagged behind in population. Like I think my capital was ~45 at the end of the game and my other 3 were at ~24-27. I'm sort of thinking in this game I made a mistake by not sending caravans to my 2nd/3rd/4th cities until I got my 4th/5th/6th caravans (which was very late) because my non-capital cities had observatories in them and my capital didn't. Not sure though.

Should you concentrate on maritime CS's? I feel one thing I definitely did poorly was managing CS's. I didn't get any ruin archers so I popped very few barb camp CS quests, and I didn't get any maritime allies for a long long time. I also wasted a lot of gold trying to keep some culture CS's which in retrospect probably aren't needed.

When allying a 2nd mercantile CS I kept getting (+0 happiness) in the popup. I guess all mercantile have the same "unique" luxuries (jewelry? and something else) so you only get extra happiness if they have different luxuries within their borders that you don't already own? In summary I'm guessing getting a 2nd mercantile ally is almost always stupid?

For king days sometimes you only have the ability to get a specific resource by paying the AI ridiculous amounts of gold if they only have a single source of it. I paid 28 gold/turn for some crabs because 3 of my 4 cities wanted it for kings day (literally nobody had the luxury for a really long time so they stacked up). 28 gold/turn is a lot though so I'm not really sure it was worth it...

I feel like I could have managed my gold better and done a lot more with it, but I'm not exactly sure what to do with a lot of gold (in the context of getting the quickest science win). I mean I guess I could buy research labs and maybe even public schools instantly in all cities...but they'd be producting them in like ~10 turns anyways so that doesn't seem like it would quicken the pace all that much (although it may squeeze out an extra GS by the end I guess?).

Also, derp. I just realized I forgot to put in the final point in tradition at the end of my game for an extra GS. Whooooooops.
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-09 08:06:33
March 09 2014 08:02 GMT
#3738
On March 08 2014 17:44 Complete wrote:
A few questions in the context of trying to get the quickest science win possible (or at least discussion points):

Do you generally want to send your caravans TO the capital which has the NC/highest multiplier etc. or TO your other cities which will grow more rapidly with the extra food? (lower population will get more out of +4 food than higher). I had a pretty huge capital (purposely) but my other 3 cities really lagged behind in population. Like I think my capital was ~45 at the end of the game and my other 3 were at ~24-27. I'm sort of thinking in this game I made a mistake by not sending caravans to my 2nd/3rd/4th cities until I got my 4th/5th/6th caravans (which was very late) because my non-capital cities had observatories in them and my capital didn't. Not sure though.


If you have observatories in second cities and not in capital I would grow second cities with caravans, the idea is that you'll get an overall higher pop that way since there is diminishing returns on food. If your capital has all the possible bonuses probably there.
I also usually kickstart secondary cities anyway due to how OP caravans are at low pops.

Should you concentrate on maritime CS's? I feel one thing I definitely did poorly was managing CS's. I didn't get any ruin archers so I popped very few barb camp CS quests, and I didn't get any maritime allies for a long long time. I also wasted a lot of gold trying to keep some culture CS's which in retrospect probably aren't needed.


Nope, mercantile and cultural are at least as important, the first one to be able to sustain more cities (and more pop, so more science). The second to rush through rationalism as fast as possible (and then order). Obviously you don't need too much of one thing however. Either way, the more CS you have the better you are.

When allying a 2nd mercantile CS I kept getting (+0 happiness) in the popup. I guess all mercantile have the same "unique" luxuries (jewelry? and something else) so you only get extra happiness if they have different luxuries within their borders that you don't already own? In summary I'm guessing getting a 2nd mercantile ally is almost always stupid?


Some mercantile give porcelain and other jewelry, you also get a basic bonus hapiness of +2 at friend level and can't remember at ally level.

For king days sometimes you only have the ability to get a specific resource by paying the AI ridiculous amounts of gold if they only have a single source of it. I paid 28 gold/turn for some crabs because 3 of my 4 cities wanted it for kings day (literally nobody had the luxury for a really long time so they stacked up). 28 gold/turn is a lot though so I'm not really sure it was worth it...


Yes and no, 28gpt is too much early game but definetly worth it later on. Some players abuse the system by declaring war immediately after though to get back their gpt. See it like costing 840gold if you don't declare war, 840gold isn't even the price of a late building so yes it's worth 25% growth for 20turns.

I feel like I could have managed my gold better and done a lot more with it, but I'm not exactly sure what to do with a lot of gold (in the context of getting the quickest science win). I mean I guess I could buy research labs and maybe even public schools instantly in all cities...but they'd be producting them in like ~10 turns anyways so that doesn't seem like it would quicken the pace all that much (although it may squeeze out an extra GS by the end I guess?).


It's definetely worth it to rush buy science buildings. Skipping those 10 turns can net you easily 5 by the end of the game seeing how high the jumps are each time you build a new science building. If you multiply it by 3 for universities, schools and labs you probably can get 15turns.

And then, more science buildings also means faster great scientists.

Also, derp. I just realized I forgot to put in the final point in tradition at the end of my game for an extra GS. Whooooooops.


You mean liberty (the extra great person is in liberty) ? Tradition is considered the better tree for science. Poland can easily mix liberty into it though, taking the left side for faster settlers.

I think the right side of liberty and the finisher are pretty meh compared to the GOD OP finisher of tradition.

Note that the great people in liberty isn't really free and counts towards your great people generation number.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
March 09 2014 09:23 GMT
#3739
So I've been meaning to get into civ (have it installed on my PC since forever lol) but every time I just keep putting it off because I've never played any of the civs before. I have played a lot of total war tho.
I feel kinda uncomfortable going in blind, I usually prefer getting to know some of the basic mechanics of a game before I jump in. Is the any good guide or YouTube video which goes over the basics, what to do early game etc?
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-09 09:32:15
March 09 2014 09:30 GMT
#3740
Edit : double post sorry
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
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