TL Chess match II - Page 26

15. f3 Qb6 (check) 16. Rf2 Rb8 17. Na4 Qb4 18. b3 d6 19. c5 Qxd2 20. Rxd2 Be6

and we have a pretty good central position from my eyes

15. F3 Qa5 16. g3 g5 17. h4 h6 18. Kh1 d6 19. Rg1 Qc5 20. b4 Qe3 21. gxf4 Qxf4 22. Qxf4 Rxf4 23. hxg5 then hope he makes a mistake.
even if he trades at 21. and 22. we will still be in a good enough position to not lose

i can't stress enough how much better rf1d was than rad1 ,, but to late now ... in the current position f3 is a little passive but at first glance playable , it appears to go together with a plan of a slower build up of our q-side position with b3 and solid moves aimed a q-side expansion . so f3 is just a prevention to stop black counter play before we begin our own q-side play .." but " after the inexactitude of rad1 im not sure if w can afford a slow move like this or not... imo the critical question i would ask is ..is qd4 an active, playable, prevention to f3 . if so it most likely is the better move at this point... i will consider the position from this perspective and provide some analysis i have a little freetime today

Why are people complainig about the moves being passive? All of the possible moves are passive, we just need to decide wich one is better for us...

If we are going to start palying more aggresively then we need to get our K out of that line. Way to vulnarable and a check in the middle of a blitz is like pressing the brakes.

I don't know if it's directed at me or not but I was thinking we can eventually get away with a f3 defense of of e4 so the Rfd1 would allow Rac1 for a defense of the c pawn should that situation ever arises. I also don't think the position is as solid as you think it is. I also tend to play more cautiously so I'm not adverse to some of the more passive plays.

15. b3 was analysed by citi.zen, but I don't see how we are winning after the knight sacrifice in one of the lines. If that is cleared up, I would definitely play 15.b3.
15. Kh1 is okay, but I think removing the threat of Black moving f3 first should be considered first since Kh1 may not even do anything. We can play 16. Kh1 next move.
15. f3 is also okay, not my favorite of moves, but choosing the lesser of evils, this is probably the best option. Although there is an open diagonal, it can be challenged by our queen, and also makes 16. Kh1 a viable choice next move. 15. f3 removes the threat of black moving to f3, which if black does, then that may create an open g-file and a contained bishop, which we don't want.

15. f3 d6 16. c5 Rf6 17. cxd6 exd6 18. Qd4 Bd7 19. b4 and we're back in it

15. f3 d6 16. c5 Rb8 17. cxd6 exd6 18. b4....

15. f3 Rb8 16. c5 Rf6 17. Qd4 d6 18. b4 dxc5 19. Qxc5 Qb6 20. Qxb6 axb6
and i really like our position...

I guess I'll try to clarify the A1 line in my earlier post:

15. b3, f3. 16. gxf3, Nxf3 17. Bxf3, Rxf3 18. Qd4+ , e5 (black could also move the king here, this was another line) 19. Qc5, Rxc3. 20. Rd6 spells trouble for black: no way to defend the e5 pawn and the king is cornered with little support.

Many possibilities now, but for example 20. ... Kg8 can be followed by 21. Qe5 is devastating since checking with the d6 rook threatens black's undefended queen. If instead 20.... Rxc4 or some other move which leaves the king at g7 white still has 21. Qe5, and it is still nasty. If 20. ... Qd8 to try to preempt that pin, 21. Qe5 wins white the c3 rook + a superior position.

To summarize: I think this line looks so good it is unlikely to be played as such. I am merely clarifying why it would be fine to lose the c3 knight in this variation, for the sake of completeness.

Many of the moves we are considering can transpose into much the same situations.

if we do b3, he will be responding with something like d6, a5, Rb8, or Rf6
i don't think it would play out the way you're saying it would

Sorry, little time and no board, but looking at the 15. Kh1 f3 line, I can't see how this gives white the active option while stopping black's active play. I do not see how 15. f3 gives black the best possible option. After f3, what do you think is black's best plan? I would think it would be continuing with kingside play with moves like Be6/Ba6, g6-g5-g4 and Rg8. Although black's queen is a little misplaced on c7, I do not see how he can make any progress with queenside or central play, as white has a pretty solid hold on the d-file and after b3 a queenside attack will be impossible. Black's plan will be delayed by f3, while white is free to attack wherever he chooses. 15. f3 does not seem immediately agressive, but I don't think the position invites agression at this point. what white needs is slow positional maneuvering while stopping black's chances. The last few moves including Qc7 have made me think that black does not have an active plan and is just waiting for the position to open up. White therefore, must concentrate his pieces in a way taht will maximize his advantage when the position opens up. If the center/f file open up right now, I think it will be good for black.

What this boils down to is whether or not 15. ... f3 is a good plan for black. From your post, it seems like you think that f3 would be a bad plan for black. I would disagree. The 15. Kh1 f3 line as given in your post allows black to take control of the a8-h1 diagonal by placing a bishop on b7, and gives black the half open f-file, while white has the d-file which is still unable to be opened because the b7 bishop controls the d5 square. Black can play c5 and stop white from playing c5 himself, while stopping any possible Nd5 moves from white. The 15. Kh1 f3 makes black's pieces active while leaving white's pieces looking out of place. The queen and rook battery on the d-file looks ridiculous when things are now happening on the f-file. (I do not think that black is obligated to trade queens in this line, as it seems to be a very versatile piece that defends the center and can swing over to the kingside after the d7 pawn moves). After Kh1 f3 white has little chances of opening up the d-file. While black's pieces seem currently uncoordinated, the open nature of the board allows him to reorganize his forces better. White's piece placement is no better. So white should build up his piece positions to maximize play when the board opens up. The critical thing is, though, that it is currently white who has the power to open up the board. We need to keep that power in order to maximize our position. Kh1 gives that power over for black to use at his discretion.

Oh also 15. ... Qb6+ should be met by 16. Kh1, not 16. Rf2. Again no board, so if there is something very advantageous (perhaps materially) about 15. Kh1 that overrides any consideration for black's good pieces, let me know. My analysis mainly accounts for piece quality and general active options in the king/queensides and center. After the Kh1 line black's pawn structure seems ok so mainly piece quality and active options are looked at here.

as far as rfd1 being better than rad1 ,, it is just more natural .. we are probably gonna need a rook behind our q-side pawns in the future is the main reason ..and now our q-side rook in on the d-file ..where we also want a rook for future reasons..if we had used the ff-rook we could still achieve both things fluidly i.e a rook on b1 and d1 ..... the f1 rook isn't doing much......As far as the next move is concerned qd4 is active but it can lead to a draw-ish position after blacks response c5 ..( the reason being is this all but forces nd5 by white) .. leading to a trade of queens .. now imo white has a slight edge in this resulting endgame but black should be able to hold for a draw..however if black doesn't find c5 it appears white gets a slight advantage in the resulting lines ( by the way i am merely providing analysis i am not voting) if white plays f3 you must be prepared to meet blacks response qb6! .kh1 .. which gives black the initiative... ..one more thing to add is qd4 prevents f3 with any effect . one likely likely line is qd4 rb8 b3 rf6 f3 c5!!!! (this move prevents black c5 allows our queen to safely stay in the center ,after a future black d6 or d5 to try for expansion we trade pawns leaving black with weak mobile pawns or try to hold the c5 b6 points with na4 .;imo this particular ending favors white...so to continue with the line qd4--rb8 b3--rf6(kg8?!) c5--kg8 f3--(now black is ready to play f3 or even build toward g5 possibly ..) imo white is safe here and controls the center i personally am favoring qd4 becuase it prepares f3 more safely..however an immediate black c5 more or less forces a trade of queens so this should be considered .. an immediate f3 seems a little risky and hands the initiative to black after qb6 ... if your not gonna play qd4 .. b3 would most likely be my second choice

15. b3 d6 16. Qd4 Qb6 17. Na4 Qxd4

15. f3 d6 16. c5 Rf6 17. cxd6 exd6 18. Qd4 Bd7 19. b4 ...

What if: 15. f3 d6 16. c5 Rf6 17. cxd6 exd6 18. Qd4 Bd7 19. a4 ...

If we do that unless Black plays 19... a6 this could happen:

20.Bb5 cxb5 21.axb5 Bxb5 22.Nxb5 Qc6 23.Na3 Qc5 24.Nc4 Qxd4+ 25.Rxd4 g5 26.g3 ...