EPTTL Chess match II - Page 11
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
Also lightman, because of glare its really hard to see this board on my laptop. I would suggest using darker colors next time. | ||
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
Im not going by rating (to do so would suggest that Karpov at his peak wouldnt even be world top 10, which is of course, ridiculous). Kramnik HAS very much changed chess culture and fashion. Remember the King's Indian defence? Once one of black's most popular responses to 1.d4? Wiped out from GM play by Kramnik's 9.b4 bayonet attack (scores almost 68%!). Remember the slav? That was the ugly cousin of the QGD until the late 90s and Kramnik. The petroff or berlin defence? He is their hero. The reti opening? No one made better use of 1.Nf3 than Vlad. Kramnik changed the way top players would have to prepare for tournaments. Openings played by players their whole career became useless. He made the anti-QID/Nimzo opening work. The catalan went from relative obscurity to one of the most popular openings at GM level. The level of endgame play has greatly increased under his guidance (he is, without doubt, the greatest endgame player of all time). Vlad is a subtle guy. He won't be remembered for dashing attacks, new openings or memorable quotes. What his legacy will be is difficult to say. But whatever does happen, he beat the commonly held strongest player of all time without losing a game. That has to count for something. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
 I hope it's not connected to those ugly H and N letters6. Be3 is the next move, just by the book. Nothing interesting here. Slightly off-topic / blog-worthy (I don't write blogs though  ): Seems like I'll be playing chess again next year!Blogworthy offtopic in the spoiler below, no analysis this time: + Show Spoiler + A slightly awkward anecdote of how it went: I was walking the girl I'm dating to the bus stop while she received a call from her team's manager (we used to play in the same chess club and have known each other for like 10 years or more) if she was available playing on Sunday this and the next week and after declining the former and accepting the latter she added "Oh and I have great news for you! (Insert my name here) would like to start playing again, could you put us into the same team each week? You know, we're a couple nowadays!" My face must've screamed "WTF" but heh, I guess that makes it official  | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
If you want any help with opening repetoire, PM me, I am very happy to help! | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
if there is a ranking of all the great chess players I would place Fischer, Capablanca, Kasparov, Morphy and Alekhine above them all, and in a second place I would place Kramnik maybe with Karpov and Lasker. On a thrid place I would place all the rest of the players that have been world champs. Why Kramnik is that great (Pretty much jfazz summed it all pretty well): - Maybe the best defensive player of all time, that is the toughest player to beat. - Retook openings once considered dead or useless, QID, Catalan, Slav, Berlin Wall. - Beat Kasparov at his own game with the Berlin Wall. - Beat Kasparov losing no games for the WC (No one before had done that, except Capablanca). - Successfully defended his title twice against the two best players that could challenge him. Why Kramnik isn't in Fischer, Capa's league: - Although I acknowledge it was his style defense that gave him strength, I believe he was a bit excessive on drawing some games. - Although definetly dominant, he didn't really have that "unbeatable" aura Fischer, Kasparov, Capa had during their time. - Yes, he defeated Kasparov 2-0 for the WC, but a review of the championship makes one think that it was more a Kasparov "did not fight to defend his title" rather than Kramnik winning. Don't get me wrong, when Kramnik played white he pushed for the win in all games and when he got black he defended focusing on successfully drawing the Berlin Wall -which he did- which is what almost any WC challenger should do, especially against Kasparov's 1. e4. It was Kasparov that with white never played or pushed for a win, and with black just couldn't do anything against Kramnik, instead kept drawing games with 11, 14 and 24 moves. I think that if anyone should have backed up a rematch for a WC (apart from Capablanca to Alekhine), should have been Kasparov to Kramnik. About losing the title to Anand: First Kramnik is stripped out of his title in some weird round robin format tournament that almost nobody backed up or supported. Then I followed both Kramnik's and Anand's preparation for the WC, and Anand was playing solid chess yes, and Kramnik wasn't, I guess and can understand he was clearly upset of playing a WC match he shouldn't be playing on the first place, and if anything he should have played a WC vs Anand with more time in advance. by the way, 6. Be3 is cleary winning this vote, do you guys want to update today instead of tomorrow ? | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
On December 14 2009 13:06 Athos wrote: Be3 Also lightman, because of glare its really hard to see this board on my laptop. I would suggest using darker colors next time. I'll change it in the next update thanks for asking | ||
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Mista_Masta
Netherlands557 Posts
Also one more vote for Be3 to seal the deal | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
UNIVERSAL: -kasparov -fischer (i am probably giving him more credit than he deserves) -capablanca -spassky -euwe -lasker -steinitz DEFENSIVE: -kramnik -karpov -petrosian (slightly controversial no doubt, but petrosian was crazy strong afterall) -Botvinnik ATTACKING: -tal -alekhine -anand the attacking ones are hard to break up, and all of them were fantastic positional players, Tal especially. Still, Alekhine was "The Attacking Machine", Tal the "Wizard of Riga" and Anand "The Tiger of Madras", so the are more reputed for attacking play than anything else The sad thing is that greats will be forgotton, like Leko, Morozevich, Ivanchuk, Bronstein and Korchnoi, while Fischer will be remembered...sad | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
please let me know if you prefer this board or should I look for another one. Fischer is another controversial case: yes his methods weren't antiics and he chickened out defending his title after he swore he would, but all in all I believe he does deserve the credit. Ironically FIDE eventually adopted the very own rules he himself (Fischer) had proposed to them earlier in his match vs Karpov (only difference was FIDE used 6 instead of 10 wins, draws not counting). On Fischer's accomplishments, let's not forget the "Fischer juggernaut" of 12-0ing two GM. His record during that whole cycle was 23-3=14, unheard of before or since, concluding with obtaining the WC title. 23 wins, only 3 losses and 14 draws (which could have been less, since most of them were him just securing the title vs Spassky), against Taimanov, Larssen, Petrossian and Spassky. Two GM top 5 players, and ex world champion and the world champion himself. That is 23 wins (13 of them in a row, yes 13 straight wins against GMs opponents) only 3 losses and 14 draws against the top 4 chess players of the world: simply unthinkable. That would be something like Kasparov going 12-0 against Topalov and Anand, beating Kramnik 5-1 and beating Karpov 7-2. The only other sick stat that can compare with that would be Capablanca's 8 year undefeated period from 1916 till 1924 holding undefeated records against Tartakower, Nimzowitch, Alekhine, Bogomoljov, Lasker, I mean how sick is that ? with the exception of alekhine and lasker, none of them could beat him ever. How sick is that ? Anyway.... voting open, closes on Wednesday next move for white 7. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
my thoughts:+ Show Spoiler + 1) 7.Be2 and now a)7...d6 8.Nc3 0-0 9.0-0 probably ...f5 or ...Ng4; Ng4 looks like it is refuted by Bxg4, and ...f5 looks dubious after exf5; black lags in development and his kingside is starting to be compromised. edge to white, maybe even big edge. b)7...0-0 8.Nc3 d6 9.0-0 with transposition to the above line; balck could instead try ...f5 on move 8, but this seems to be crushed after 9.Bxh6! Bxh6 10.exf5 gxf5 11.Bh5+ with huge advantage to white. Black could try 9...Bxd4 but after 10.0-0 it is white who has all the time in the world to prove his advantage. c)7...f5 8. exf5 Nxf5 (i think this is lightman's plan) 9.Nxf5 and now: c1) 9...Qa5+ 10.Nc3 Qxf5 and 0-0, Rc1, h4 or Qd2 all look promising. c2) 9...Bxb2!? 10.Nbd2 gxf5 11.Bh5+ and white's attack looks overwhelming, after 11...Kf8, 12.Qc2 forces 12...Bf6 and now 13.Bh6+ followed by Qxf5, nasty! c1 is black's best try, in all other lines white gets a noticable edge. 2) 7.Nc3 a) 7...Ng4 8.Qxg4 Nxd4 9.Qd1 Ne6 10.Rc1 and something like Qa5, b6, 0-0 or d6, but white gets what he wants out of the opening; space edge with some attacking chances. This position REALLY appeals to me as a positional player, but it surely is not as nice as the crazy attacking chances we get in line 1) b) 7...d6 8.Be2 0-0 9.0-0 and everything looks suspect; both ...f5 and ...Ng4 dont look so flash, but what else? Maybe Qa5 or Nxd4 followed by Be6, but white retains a comfortable plus in any line, and the knight of h6 looks stupid. c) 7...0-0 8.Be2 d6 9.0-0 with transposition to above. Resultantly, 7.Be2 just seems more accurate, forcing black to either go passive with line c1, or alternatively make some major concessions for activity with another option. This seems like best play for us, it is VERY easy for black to go wrong, but we will always get a safe castled king with good development. Besides, I want to see wha we can do when attacking! After much analysis, 7.Be2 | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
Be2 Also thanks for changing the board, it's much easier to see now. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Not much difference for me between Nc3 and Be2 but I like the spacing a bit better if we develop the knight + no rush to castle at the moment. Things are getting interesting with black's next move: Ng4? d6? something else? Either way I think we have a pretty strong position. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
Looks like Kramnik is about to grind down Short (go Vlad!) and Carlsen is burning in flames against Adams...tie for first with two rounds to go! | ||
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Ikari
United States176 Posts
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jcu
Canada93 Posts
7. Be2 Capablanca was much more positional and lazy than universal. He just understood the game so much better than his peers. But in the present day, he would be punished for his lack of calculation. And Kasparov has a very agressive/tactical/attacking tendency. He always wants to find the best agressive continuations and calculate everything. His discipline to calculate so much makes him a great player combined with his great understanding of chess. I would say Karpov has a really universal style since he played the game so intuitively. Spassky of course is well known for playing e4 and d4 and basically anything equally well so that makes him pretty universal. He also liked to constrain himself to max 5 min per moves and jokes stuff like that. + Show Spoiler + Be2 is most flexible and accurate since it immediately prevents ng4 and develops the bishop to its most natural square. His Nh6 immediately looks awkward as he will most likely have to reroute it via f7 or g8 or play f5. After Be2 we may be able to do jokes agressive plans like g4 rg1 g5 followed by h4 and h5 and stuff as long as we keep in mind his counterplay and prevent him from breaking in the centre. If we want to be more circumspect, and less agressive, probably Qd2 setups with normal development. With precise play, I'm pretty sure we can abuse his Nh6 and at least make it difficult for him to draw. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
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