• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:58
CEST 03:58
KST 10:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris31Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
#2: Serral - Greatest Players of All Time #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I hope balance council is prepping final balance Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Aligulac - Europe takes the podium
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL Season 20 Ro24 Groups Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD No Rain in ASL20?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [ASL20] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1058 users

TL Chess match II - Page 10

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 46 Next All
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
December 12 2009 08:25 GMT
#181
On December 12 2009 08:22 jfazz wrote:
Yeah, the Yugoslav type formation will not work here. The accelerated dragon he is entering can actually come from a line in the english (1.c4 c5 2.e4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6 6. Be3).

My thoughts+ Show Spoiler +
I play a lot of games from this position (otherwise you end up in a king's indian, and why would you want to let them use their heavy home prep?). 5.c4 is THE move of choice in this position. Otherwise, black can equalise fairly comfortably after normal developing moves and a quick d5, even if it comes as a sacrifice (black's positions holds A LOT potential engergy).

The real question for us, is, do we want do meet Nc6 with Be3, or a knight retreat (c2 would be standard, to eventually come to e3 later in the game to attack the d5 square). This may seem slow, but it works, given the space advantage white has (and that we can play for b4 and f4 as well).


That's what I was thinking when you overcame with joy at 4. - g6! That "this sure can be developed from an English opening after 1. c4 c5 2. e4" Heh, no wonder you're happy now unlike when we first encountered an open Sicilian variation

+ Show Spoiler +
To answer your question, after reviewing my old theory books, I would recommend Nc2 in that situation. The few Maróczy binds I played, it was doing that and it worked pretty well.

Let's just see if our next move is indeed 5. c4 first though
Complete the cycle!
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-12 13:20:46
December 12 2009 11:45 GMT
#182
Yeah...Sicilians are not my thing. I dabble mostly with 1.d4, but also a small amount with 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 (the former for tournaments, the latter for special prep for certain opponents, mostly Gruenfeld dudes). Getting into a line from the English is like, my backyard, especially this particularly line, which arises out of the symmetrical english AND the reti.

extra thoughts
+ Show Spoiler +
there are really two main versions of the maroczy. the classical with b4 and f4, or the more modern, less ambitious option with b3 and f3, and central expansion. I wouldn't mind saying the classical - I don't think he will know it that well, and regardless, we should be able to squeeze him rather well...the b4 line especially really hurts back on the queenside, which can then lead to a massive kingside attack via the f5 break (f1 rook never moves in this line), once black is tied down on the queenside...that and any endgame is much easier for us due to the space and activity advantage!
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 12 2009 18:28 GMT
#183
if he does Bg7 we *should not* Nc3, correct?
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
proberecall
Profile Joined August 2009
United States104 Posts
December 12 2009 22:49 GMT
#184
I want to vote Nxc6 but I have a question seeing so many people voting c4. Is c4 better than Nxc6 ? Because what I was thinking

+ Show Spoiler +


5 Nxc6 exc6
6 Qxd8 Kxd8 and he can't castle which is good for us.

or

5 Nxc6 bxc6
6 ?



jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 12 2009 23:01 GMT
#185
Nxc6 is the worst move in the position.

Nxc6 bxc6 and black is equal.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
December 13 2009 01:48 GMT
#186
On December 13 2009 07:49 proberecall wrote:
I want to vote Nxc6 but I have a question seeing so many people voting c4. Is c4 better than Nxc6 ? Because what I was thinking

+ Show Spoiler +


5 Nxc6 exc6
6 Qxd8 Kxd8 and he can't castle which is good for us.

or

5 Nxc6 bxc6
6 ?





Brief explanation below.

+ Show Spoiler +
NxC6 leads to bxC6, which leaves black with 3 very strong pawns in the center and makes d5 a real problem. You are basically wasting a move, while black develops a pawn into a stronger position.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 13 2009 03:16 GMT
#187
is our next move likely Be3
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 13 2009 15:29 GMT
#188
Hey guys, you should all make the effort to check out the games from the London Chess Classic:enjoy!
I would reccomend above all others Kramniks most recent two games with the Black pieces - Big Vlad is back and winning!

Also, he is my hero
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
proberecall
Profile Joined August 2009
United States104 Posts
December 13 2009 20:37 GMT
#189
thx for explaining citizen. I vote c4 then
revolover
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada134 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-13 20:51:14
December 13 2009 20:50 GMT
#190
5. c4
lightman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States731 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-13 21:34:02
December 13 2009 21:29 GMT
#191
Just played 5....... Bg7

updated and next voting closes Tuesday.

boy I really want to play Dragon !

jfrazz, I was so angry Kramnik losing to Anand. Back in the 90s my friends and I always said if there was one player who could stop Kasparov that was Kramnik and hold championship throughout the 2000s. Vlad's one of the greatest players in the history of chess, I would like to see him regain the title (although it's hard w Carlsen now).
Chuck Norris owns the greatest Poker Face of all-time. It helped him win the 1983 WSOP holding just a Get out of Jail Free Monopoloy card, and a green #4 card from the game UNO, against an AAA KK flop and his rival folding AK after Chuck raised him ALL-IN
Ikari
Profile Joined April 2007
United States176 Posts
December 13 2009 21:48 GMT
#192
6. Be3
God Mode: Alt+F4
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 13 2009 23:37 GMT
#193
Yeah I doubt Kramnik will ever regain the title now, he just probably does not have it in him to make the needed repetoire and psychological changes. Still, I feel he is the greatest player of all time, and I prefer to look over his games in preference to anyone else.

6.Be3, just following theory.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
jcu
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada93 Posts
December 13 2009 23:58 GMT
#194
While chess is quickly becoming a young player's game, Kramnik is still a top 3 player and will be for a long time if he sticks with chess. He's still quite young by chess standards. What usually stops players from attaining the tile is all the bureaucractic shit. It makes people even leave chess like Kasparov. He couldn't get a rematch versus Kramnik for so long because Kramnik didn't want to play a rematch and no one could force him to. Everything he did was within his rights as well I'm sure. There was so much confusion anyways because the Kasparov-Kramnik match wasn't even FIDE sanctioned yet most of the world recognized it as a world title match.

Also, if people want to know what's going on in the chess world, I recommend chessbase.com It's the "teamliquid" for english chess news and always has games from recent tourneys. You can dig up old games too using the archives. Although, I didn't look at the games, the site has the London Chess Classic games with analysis provided. You can play through them at your leisure and understand some of the ideas by reading the analysis as you go. For example:
http://www.chessbase.com/news/2009/london/games/saunders04.

6. Be3
goldrush
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Canada709 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-13 23:58:57
December 13 2009 23:58 GMT
#195
6. Be3

Not to derail the thread, but why is Kramnik one of the greatest players of all time? He hasn't revolutionized the game, he doesn't display dominance like some of the other world champions showed and his accomplishments aren't all that great either (again, compared to the other world champions).

He's still a really good chess player and one of the best in the world right now, but greatest of all time is a really strong statement.
jcu
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada93 Posts
December 14 2009 00:32 GMT
#196
People say he's the greatest of all time because he beat Kasparov in a match when no one thought it was possible and Kasparov is often said to be one of the all time greats. The greatest of all time title is always debatable since it is hard to compare different eras of the game. It is probably best not to compare them at all and just say that all of these champions were great. How do you measure greatness anyways? Difference in class between your contemporaries? Number of years reigned champion? Raw chess talent? Overall skill? Maybe its a mixture of qualities. Not all chess players have the same environment to nurture their skill. In Fischer's time, he was basically the only person playing chess at the level of the soviets. Anand had little benifit from the russian chess schools.
Arhkangel
Profile Joined August 2007
Argentina769 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-14 00:38:53
December 14 2009 00:38 GMT
#197
JCU thanks for that webpage. I was really looking for a place to start getting acquainted with the current top-players, from my recent research most of the players that are mentioned are gone. Keeping up with the champions is one of the things that keep me interested (that's why I follow and love StarCraft, more so than the gameplay itself).

This thread is a blessing for anyone that want's to get started with playing REAL chess. If you take the time to analyze all the good posts and play out the different scenarios that people predict you learn a lot.

6.Be3

*So now that we got our Maróczy Bind set-up and lightman is playing his accelerated Dragon we start to see the interesting and not by-the-book stuff? I sure hope so! I can learn opening by reading websites I wanna see some deep "strategizing." :p
Part Time Ninja
CynanMachae
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Canada1459 Posts
December 14 2009 00:58 GMT
#198
6. Be3
Jang Yoon Chul hwaiting!
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-14 01:49:12
December 14 2009 01:49 GMT
#199
so i was right


6. Be3
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
December 14 2009 01:54 GMT
#200
6. Be3
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 46 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL S2 Championship: Ro16
CranKy Ducklings116
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft219
SpeCial 155
RuFF_SC2 91
ProTech82
Nina 61
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 853
Nal_rA 244
Sharp 64
Icarus 11
Beast 2
Dota 2
monkeys_forever929
League of Legends
JimRising 445
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K802
taco 176
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox547
Mew2King16
Other Games
tarik_tv15880
summit1g8482
shahzam610
C9.Mang0320
ViBE235
Maynarde134
kaitlyn4
ROOTCatZ1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4128
• Stunt258
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
8h 2m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
9h 2m
herO vs MaxPax
Clem vs Classic
Replay Cast
22h 2m
LiuLi Cup
1d 9h
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
1d 14h
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
Big Brain Bouts
1d 14h
Iba vs GgMaChine
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Reynor vs Classic
Serral vs Clem
BSL Team Wars
1d 17h
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
1d 17h
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
2 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
2 days
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
SC Evo League
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.