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TL Chess match II - Page 13

Forum Index > General Games
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TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
December 16 2009 15:05 GMT
#241
8 exf5
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
December 16 2009 15:21 GMT
#242
Why not 8. Nc3? Unless someone convinces me otherwise, that's my vote for now.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Ikari
Profile Joined April 2007
United States176 Posts
December 16 2009 16:05 GMT
#243
8. exf5
God Mode: Alt+F4
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
December 16 2009 16:19 GMT
#244
8. Nc3 is my move at this point, but will think about this more tonight.

+ Show Spoiler +
I don't like the continuations from 8. exf5. For example Nxf5 leaves his knight in a very strong position, so it almost forces 9. Nxf5 and it seems black can now take the initiative with 9... Qa5+ followed by 10... Qxf5. The bishop at g7 remains troublesome, and 11... 0-0 lines up the black rook and queen nicely... I just don't like all the offensive options black has, it seems we lose initiative and play reactively.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
December 16 2009 16:57 GMT
#245
On December 17 2009 01:19 citi.zen wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't like the continuations from 8. exf5. For example Nxf5 leaves his knight in a very strong position, so it almost forces 9. Nxf5 and it seems black can now take the initiative with 9... Qa5+ followed by 10... Qxf5. The bishop at g7 remains troublesome, and 11... 0-0 lines up the black rook and queen nicely... I just don't like all the offensive options black has, it seems we lose initiative and play reactively.


+ Show Spoiler +
Me neither. I don't see any reason to let the knight come to f5 so easily, and after Nc3, the pawn on f5 is harmless as far as I can see. Neither fxe4 or f4 are particularly dangerous.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 16 2009 17:25 GMT
#246
Be3 x Nh6.

+ Show Spoiler +
This will get rid of his knight which could pose a potential threat. Black would have to take out the bishop with one of his own as to safeguard his rook. That leaves us free to take his pawn, as the black bishop can't realy get anywhere.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 16 2009 17:48 GMT
#247
what does everyone think about

8. Nxc6

+ Show Spoiler +
8...dxc6 9.Qxd8+ Kxd8 10.Nc3 Qc7 11.0-0-0 how does that look? we should have winning chances in the edngame,

while

8...bac6!? 9.Qd2 Ng4 10.exf5 gxf5 11.h3 Nxe3 12.Bh5+ Kf8 13.fxe3 and we can castle with pressure down the f-file on the black king, with a central pawn break possible


in accordance with that analysis, i may soon change my vote
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 16 2009 17:50 GMT
#248
Could someone do a compilation of the current votes please?

I'd like to know how futile my vote is.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
December 16 2009 17:58 GMT
#249
eXf5
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 16 2009 18:06 GMT
#250
The current standings are:

exf5 - 4 votes
Bxh6 - 1 vote
Nxc6 - 1 vote
Nc3 - 2 votes
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
December 16 2009 18:41 GMT
#251
On December 17 2009 02:48 jfazz wrote:
what does everyone think about

8. Nxc6

+ Show Spoiler +
8...dxc6 9.Qxd8+ Kxd8 10.Nc3 Qc7 11.0-0-0 how does that look? we should have winning chances in the edngame,

while

8...bac6!? 9.Qd2 Ng4 10.exf5 gxf5 11.h3 Nxe3 12.Bh5+ Kf8 13.fxe3 and we can castle with pressure down the f-file on the black king, with a central pawn break possible


in accordance with that analysis, i may soon change my vote


+ Show Spoiler +
I don't like it. After 8...bac6!? 9.Qd2 Ng4 10.exf5 gxf5 11.h3 Nxe3 12.Bh5+ Kf8 13.fxe3 black can get activity on the queenside, i.e.

13...Rb8 14. Nc3 Qb6 15. b3 Qa5 16. Rc1, and then there are several options for black. He can take the knight for example, after which black might be able to defend against e4 with the queen, and playing e6, Ke7 the king looks quite safe. After a continuation like 16...Bxc3 17. Rxc3 e6 18. O-O Qc5 19. Kh1 Ke7, I don't like our setup.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
December 16 2009 19:20 GMT
#252
On December 17 2009 02:48 jfazz wrote:
what does everyone think about

8. Nxc6

+ Show Spoiler +
8...dxc6 9.Qxd8+ Kxd8 10.Nc3 Qc7 11.0-0-0 how does that look? we should have winning chances in the edngame,

while

8...bac6!? 9.Qd2 Ng4 10.exf5 gxf5 11.h3 Nxe3 12.Bh5+ Kf8 13.fxe3 and we can castle with pressure down the f-file on the black king, with a central pawn break possible


in accordance with that analysis, i may soon change my vote


+ Show Spoiler +
I don't like that it pretty much forces Qd2 or some version thereof after bxc6. It seems like we lose a tempo & black is free to then do whatever, take the initiative. I don't think we should rush to take that f5 pawn for the same reason: why lose a tempo if we don't have to? I'd rather develop a piece or do something more constructive.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
CynanMachae
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Canada1459 Posts
December 16 2009 20:07 GMT
#253
8. Nc3
Jang Yoon Chul hwaiting!
Misder
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1557 Posts
December 16 2009 22:10 GMT
#254
As of right now, I vote 8. Nc3.

+ Show Spoiler +
The only thing that we need to worry about after that is 8...f4. Then, we play 9. Nxc6, and then take on f4.


Reasons why not to prefer any other moves

+ Show Spoiler +
8. exf5 looks bad due to 8... Nxf5 opening the kingside for black to attack. 8. Bxh6 just gives black a big diagonal after 8...Bxh6. 8. Nxc6 looks really risky, especially with the threat of Bxb2 and giving black a long diagonal.


Things to watch out for

+ Show Spoiler +
Black has potential threats: f4, Qa5+, Bxb2, fxe4
Whaaaa?
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 16 2009 23:20 GMT
#255
lets say we do exf5... he will nxf5, we nxf5, we are left open for bxb2
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 16 2009 23:31 GMT
#256
Nc3
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
proberecall
Profile Joined August 2009
United States104 Posts
December 16 2009 23:34 GMT
#257
On December 17 2009 08:20 Bill Murray wrote:
lets say we do exf5... he will nxf5, we nxf5, we are left open for bxb2



he wouldn't

+ Show Spoiler +


if he's a good chess player he wouldn't do bxb2:



+ Show Spoiler +

8. exf5 is met with 8.. Nxf5 9. Nxf5 Bxb2 10. Nd2 gxf5 11 Bb5 Kf8 12 Qb1 Bf6 13 Qxf5 and we have strong position and advantage.


however as of right now I vote 8.Nc3

jcu
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada93 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-17 00:04:54
December 17 2009 00:02 GMT
#258
exf5

Something to think about:

+ Show Spoiler +
Nc3 doesn't really save any tempi since black still has fxe4 nxe4 qa5+ and then the knight must block the check unless you want to play an ugly move like bd2 or kf1. exf5 looks strong to me. one possible line: exf5, nxf5, nxf5, qa5+, nc3, qxf5 c5! All this is pretty much forced and c5 creates problems for the development of the light squared bishop. After this black maybe has some options like qe5 and 0-0 that you guys can look at. qe5 may net him the bishop pair at the cost of further falling behind in development. 0-0 looks weak due to qb3+ and rd1.

I actually like the positions with black's queen "active" in the centre because we can attack it at some points with the three minor pieces and eventually our rooks. Our goal is possibly to use our development advantage to put pressure on his centre and maybe kingside while we keep his queenside hemmed in. He eventually will have to push his central pawns or go for some b6 maneuver and we have to be ready to chop off some pawns when they push and weaken themselves.

Delay moves like nc3 and 0-0 are also interesting with the idea of not allowing him qa5 check. nxc6 leads to an endgame with some winning chances but I prefer to keep the queens on the board. Queens are interesting :D The sharper nature allows us more chances to win.

[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 17 2009 02:58 GMT
#259
now it's:

exf5 - 6 votes
Bxh6 - 1 vote
Nxc6 - 1 vote
Nc3 - 6 votes
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
December 17 2009 09:27 GMT
#260
There is no vote for Nxc6... yet.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
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