EPTGod of the Battlefield: Part 1 - Page 29
| Forum Index > Final Edits |
|
sinjitsu_
Australia196 Posts
| ||
|
nepeta
1872 Posts
The IloveOov game on RotV can hardly be commended because of Savior's tactics in delaying Oov's army; at the start of the conflict he has 4 vs 2 bases, at the end of it he still has the same ratio as Oov's main and nat have by then been mined out. Oov just doesn't have the army/economy advantage to make his push work. After Savior's initial holding back of Oov's push, it's basically a stalemate, which lasts until a a maxed zerg army hits the tank lines with swarm and plague. Oov doesn't harass with vessels enough, he just lets Savior set up his zerg tsunami. Savior creates a beautiful distraction with the drop in Oov's main, but ultimately it's a macro victory. The OSL game vs Iris is, while a somewhat better example, not as much a tribute to Savior's delaying tactics as it is to Iris' flawed vessel control. He loses so many vessels, that when defilers finally arrive, he only has one left. Small wonder a push vs a lurker heavy zerg doesn't work without vessels. From then on, Iris doesn't expand aymore, until he has just lost his entire army, and it's the hard to defend terran 3rd vs a zerg which has map control. In the later stages Iris keeps positioning his vessels in a horrible way, usually at least one screen away from any anti-air capacity. Savior invented or perfected certain builds, his defiler usage was certainly new and much feared, his adversaries could for a long time not deal with it in any sufficient way. He had an uncanny game sense, his scouting could outmatch the best map hacks any day, and his daring minimalism took zerg on a power trip it hadn't seen for a while. Still, not everything should be attributed to his genius; there has always been a gradual changing of the guard, old pro's unable to keep up with the hunger or build orders or execution of the younger generation. And however much I, as a card-carrying Savior fan, appreciate this article, for there are many valid points raised in it, I think it's a bit too much of a eulogy. | ||
|
Gruv
United Kingdom379 Posts
| ||
|
Loanshark
China3094 Posts
| ||
|
bastqq
Ukraine12 Posts
| ||
|
Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On May 25 2011 15:39 Waxangel wrote: can't believe you're all falling for our elaborate trap, where we round up all the remaining Brood War fans and ban them so we can focus on SC II What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger. | ||
|
drlame
Sweden574 Posts
(P.S best gamer ever) | ||
|
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 25 2011 15:39 Waxangel wrote: can't believe you're all falling for our elaborate trap, where we round up all the remaining Brood War fans and ban them so we can focus on SC II Too bad, I'm an SC2 fan who dabbles in BW, and very much enjoyed this article. I'm sure there are others like me, and you cannot ban us all! :p | ||
|
corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On May 25 2011 16:52 nepeta wrote: Yesterday I read this article, today I've seen some of the match videos, on which argument is built, and it seems to me you've made some errors in the interpretation of causality; 'Savior does X, it causes his T opponent to do Y', could also be reversed into 'His opponent does Y, therefore Savior (wisely) did X'. The IloveOov game on RotV can hardly be commended because of Savior's tactics in delaying Oov's army; at the start of the conflict he has 4 vs 2 bases, at the end of it he still has the same ratio as Oov's main and nat have by then been mined out. Oov just doesn't have the army/economy advantage to make his push work. After Savior's initial holding back of Oov's push, it's basically a stalemate, which lasts until a a maxed zerg army hits the tank lines with swarm and plague. Oov doesn't harass with vessels enough, he just lets Savior set up his zerg tsunami. Savior creates a beautiful distraction with the drop in Oov's main, but ultimately it's a macro victory. I don't understand your point about the delayed push. How did savior not delay it ? And when the fight happens, Oov still has two base to mine, and sAviOr barely starts mining his 4th... And even if you were right, how does it not show how savior delayed the push ? It exactly enbales him to get the macro advantage that wins him the game. And breaking that was hardly easy, and cannot just be explained by a low vessel count. I mean, most of the modern mech (transition or lategame) have a low vessel count because gas goes into tanks, and before queens, zerg had quite a hard time breaking those... As for Iris, you have a point, though being aggressive with his vessels was part of his strat (you've never seen Flash send squadron of vessels to their death to preventivly irradiate the zerg army ?), and was a mostly correct decision given the advantage he had. And then again, was it is obviously a part of his overall defeat, this has nothing to do about the point Ver made in that game on the (extremely famous) defense of that expo, which was achieved exactly by denying the expo you claimed Iris did not take. BTW, one of the reason of that late expo was because Iris could be on 3 base so much earlier on this map. And again, because of his advantage, he felt (pretty wisely) that keeping savior on the back foot by being aggressive was the right thing to do. As Iris was the closest to defeat savior at his prime (and note some of those "better" terran with better control), I'll have to agree with his choice. | ||
|
Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
But... I just will never be able to forgive Savior, no matter what a great player he was. :/ | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On May 25 2011 15:39 Waxangel wrote: can't believe you're all falling for our elaborate trap, where we round up all the remaining Brood War fans and ban them so we can focus on SC II Oh no. I do not know this savior guy or this game called brood war. Honest. XDD | ||
|
538
Hungary3932 Posts
I would have critiqued this article for not emphasizing the importance of the match-fixing, but I understand it was written before that, and it indeed would be a shame to let it not see the light of publication just due to the events past. As for Savior, my heart still doesn't let me to speak of him kindly. The fact that he was the unparalleled bonjwa of the scene, one of the very few who showcased gameplay perfection in this game we love, just makes his betrayal all the worse. | ||
|
Loanshark
China3094 Posts
On May 25 2011 17:03 Caladbolg wrote: What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger. Nice Song of Ice and Fire reference right there! | ||
|
Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/17q9d.jpg) On May 25 2011 17:03 Caladbolg wrote: What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger. Gonna tattoo this on my penis brb On May 25 2011 17:32 corumjhaelen wrote: As Iris was the closest to defeat savior at his prime (and note some of those "better" terran with better control), I'll have to agree with his choice. I personally thought Midas brought more to the table but Neo Arka made the Iris series more memorable | ||
|
5FDP
Germany44 Posts
great article | ||
|
scrubtastic
1166 Posts
This is one of the most enlightening articles I've ever read regarding BW by far - I also wasn't around for Savior but this really helps me understand part of the reason why his legacy is valued. Thank you for writing this - I eagerly await more articles and analysis. | ||
|
Applecakes
Australia319 Posts
| ||
|
Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 25 2011 15:18 LaughingTulkas wrote: To be honest, I think it has to be the matchfixing mostly. Thought I hate saying it, I don't think he could have fallen so far with just a "slump." But the betters made a killing because people would always still believe Savior would pull out of it and would bet on him, but with inside information that he'd lose you'd make so much money. Dude, he was just a broker. He didn't throw his own matches, as far as I know. | ||
|
Koka-kola
241 Posts
Thank you for your work | ||
|
konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
On May 25 2011 13:31 Mystlord wrote: Absolutely sick write up Ver. Major props! Can't wait for the next installment <3 Though it does make you wonder that if Savior understood the game to such a degree, exactly why did he start slumping? i can identify a few, but mainly these two: 1) confidence - after being smashed 0-3 against someone with an expected 1-digit winning chance, who wouldn't lose confidence? 2) mechanics - savior's apm was definitely slow. his micro (at least his muta micro) was bad, to say the very least. his multitasking makes modern progamers laugh. he made up for it with insane understanding of the game and great unit utilization (such as lurkers, defilers and lings). once the average playing field stepped up, fast multitasking and apm eventually took over. he couldn't catch up. | ||
| ||
