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I guess its not surprising that so many on this site is obsessed with korea and sc1. I think players like Naniwa have showed that you can absolutely crush without having been near starcraft or korea.
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On May 13 2011 06:13 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:
[quote]
Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please. Ok, you just quoted hotbid who said something COMPLETELY different than what the rest of the post was saying, good job. He also said "The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash."
Yes. And that all proves you wrong. yay!
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On May 13 2011 06:13 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:10 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. Ok so I read it, 300 current pros and semi-pros with the potential to come and dominate sc2 at any moment? How is that not saying the top 300 pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched unless you want to argue that he used "have the potential" because if that's the case, a ton more people that just those 300 have the potential to be at the top of sc2 and that means that the previous statement was there for absolutely no reason. Good. Now Learn2read the WHOLE article.
Ok mr condescending, I read the whole article and you clearly seem to have glossed over it so get back to me when you feel like actually posting an argument instead of just spouting shit that is completely irrelevant.
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On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please.
You're quoting Hot_Bid now, who I said I agree with more than the OP, because the OP uses that quote and goes in an entirely different direction.
Holy fuck, for someone as condescending as you, you don't read all that much yourself, I've made a previous statement with regards to that quote, it's out of place because the OP's conclusion is different from Hot_Bid's and most people have agreed with Hot_Bid's statement about the outliers, Flash and Jaedong, just not the other part about the pro BW players being able to trounce the current top SC2 players should they choose to come over.
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While I agree that top tier broodwar players have the potential to do well in SC2, I do not agree that they could come in and 'dominate' at any moment. the game they have been training for over last decade has different mechanics, and units to factor in. thus a lot of the broodwar mechanics become muscle memory that would have to be re-trained/learned.
Sure with there broodwar practice schedules, raw talent and dedication they could do well if they would switch over. but to allude to saying they will be dominating within a weeks span is I feel is a little premature, on top of neglecting to notice just how different the two games really are.
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On May 13 2011 06:13 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:09 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:
[quote]
Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? What you said: the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. What OP says: I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the POTENTIAL to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment God, I am like the best at teaching 3rd graders (I dont judge how many times you have repeated) Why the fuck would he go on to say that it cheapens the competition right now unless he's implying that those 300 BW pros would dominate the current scene. Sure, any number of people have the potential to come into any sports scene and do well, but that wouldn't cheapen the opinion of the current play in that scene unless you're saying the current play is shit compared to the play of the other potential players. Where is your reading comprehension?
"Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. "
This is him saying he can't guarentee shit for 298 of the 300 players. But its likely/they have good potential.
Reading comprehension next lesson. YOU need to learn to walk before you run.
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On May 13 2011 06:15 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:13 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:
[quote]
And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game.
Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please. Ok, you just quoted hotbid who said something COMPLETELY different than what the rest of the post was saying, good job. He also said "The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash." Yes. And that all proves you wrong. yay!
I don't disagree with anything hotbid said, so how does quoting him prove me wrong at all? I disagree with saying the top 300 bw players would be better than any sc2 players which regardless of how you keep trying to spin it is what the op said.
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On May 13 2011 06:17 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:15 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:13 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:
[quote]
The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners.
saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think.
Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10.
But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game"
Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements.
try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please. Ok, you just quoted hotbid who said something COMPLETELY different than what the rest of the post was saying, good job. He also said "The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash." Yes. And that all proves you wrong. yay! I don't disagree with anything hotbid said, so how does quoting him prove me wrong at all? I disagree with saying the top 300 bw players would be better than any sc2 players which regardless of how you keep trying to spin it is what the op said.
OP is clearly letting Hot Bid make his point
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On May 13 2011 06:17 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:13 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:09 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:
[quote]
And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game.
Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? What you said: the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. What OP says: I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the POTENTIAL to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment God, I am like the best at teaching 3rd graders (I dont judge how many times you have repeated) Why the fuck would he go on to say that it cheapens the competition right now unless he's implying that those 300 BW pros would dominate the current scene. Sure, any number of people have the potential to come into any sports scene and do well, but that wouldn't cheapen the opinion of the current play in that scene unless you're saying the current play is shit compared to the play of the other potential players. Where is your reading comprehension? "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. " This is him saying he can't guarentee shit for 298 of the 300 players. But its likely/they have good potential. Reading comprehension next lesson. YOU need to learn to walk before you run.
Hotbid said 99.9% and intrigue said 300, good job at those reading comprehension skills you keep talking about.
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On May 13 2011 06:16 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:
[quote]
Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please. You're quoting Hot_Bid now, who I said I agree with more than the OP, because the OP uses that quote and goes in an entirely different direction. Holy fuck, for someone as condescending as you, you don't read all that much yourself, I've made a previous statement with regards to that quote, it's out of place because the OP's conclusion is different from Hot_Bid's and most people have agreed with Hot_Bid's statement about the outliers, Flash and Jaedong, just not the other part about the pro BW players being able to trounce the current top SC2 players should they choose to come over.
Don't get your panties in a bunch.
Why would he quote Hot Bid if he disagreed with him?
HMMMMMMMM
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On May 13 2011 06:18 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:17 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:13 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:09 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:
[quote]
The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners.
saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think.
Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10.
But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game"
Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements.
try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? What you said: the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. What OP says: I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the POTENTIAL to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment God, I am like the best at teaching 3rd graders (I dont judge how many times you have repeated) Why the fuck would he go on to say that it cheapens the competition right now unless he's implying that those 300 BW pros would dominate the current scene. Sure, any number of people have the potential to come into any sports scene and do well, but that wouldn't cheapen the opinion of the current play in that scene unless you're saying the current play is shit compared to the play of the other potential players. Where is your reading comprehension? "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. " This is him saying he can't guarentee shit for 298 of the 300 players. But its likely/they have good potential. Reading comprehension next lesson. YOU need to learn to walk before you run. Hotbid said 99.9% and intrigue said 300, good job at those reading comprehension skills you keep talking about.
Intrigue said 300 had POTENTIAL. Hot Bid doesn't necessarily disagree, but he says 2 have more than just POTENTIAL. This is getting boring. cmon. Its not that hard.
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SC1 is dying game. Sc1 has been taken out of the WCG and Blizzcon. I really hope BW players move over eventually to face a foreign scene much dedicated than they were in the SC1 era. Only then will find out whether all the shit coming out of intrigue's mouth has some merit to it.
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On May 13 2011 06:17 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:13 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:09 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:
[quote]
And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game.
Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? What you said: the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. What OP says: I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the POTENTIAL to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment God, I am like the best at teaching 3rd graders (I dont judge how many times you have repeated) Why the fuck would he go on to say that it cheapens the competition right now unless he's implying that those 300 BW pros would dominate the current scene. Sure, any number of people have the potential to come into any sports scene and do well, but that wouldn't cheapen the opinion of the current play in that scene unless you're saying the current play is shit compared to the play of the other potential players. Where is your reading comprehension? "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. " This is him saying he can't guarentee shit for 298 of the 300 players. But its likely/they have good potential. Reading comprehension next lesson. YOU need to learn to walk before you run.
I agree with Hot_Bid for the most part, just not with the OP, he's not letting Hot_Bid make his point for him because he then goes on to make his own fucking point which is not what Hot_Bid said, and is something I don't agree with at all.
If you go by Hot_Bid's quote, that would have no effect on the current quality, or bring up the statement that SC2's current competitive scene is a farce.
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Intrigue has single handedly and successfully now split the community. And here I thought BW exclusive fans were starting to stop caring.
Bravo to Intrigue, this article has about as much point as a circle.
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On May 13 2011 06:15 Zaixer wrote:
I guess its not surprising that so many on this site is obsessed with korea and sc1. I think players like Naniwa have showed that you can absolutely crush without having been near starcraft or korea.
He crushed some BW foreigners, the best of which -Idra and Nony- were only on the Korean B-teams.
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The gorilla in the room is the disappointment in SC2 and it's lack of depth.
I'm a C+ Brood War player. When I see SC2 players do things, I'm never impressed. In my mind I think I CAN DO THAT. Which is the mindset that caused the article. There's very little respect for the skill shown so far by the top players. No fault to them, it's just the way the game is designed. I don't feel awed when I see Mvp marine split. I can do that, sorry. Or when someone casts force fields. How is that impressive in any way?
SC2 has produced entertaining games but very few have been due to micro or unit control. It's mainly builds that make SC2 games and decision making. Now recall all the games where player physical skill singlehandedly decided the outcome in Brood War. Vulture drops, wraith control, reaver control, 2 hatch mutas, the list goes on.
The disappointment is players can no longer showcase that sort of skill.
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On May 13 2011 06:19 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:16 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:
[quote]
And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game.
Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please. You're quoting Hot_Bid now, who I said I agree with more than the OP, because the OP uses that quote and goes in an entirely different direction. Holy fuck, for someone as condescending as you, you don't read all that much yourself, I've made a previous statement with regards to that quote, it's out of place because the OP's conclusion is different from Hot_Bid's and most people have agreed with Hot_Bid's statement about the outliers, Flash and Jaedong, just not the other part about the pro BW players being able to trounce the current top SC2 players should they choose to come over. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Why would he quote Hot Bid if he disagreed with him? HMMMMMMMM
"I'll save my arguing energy for responding to your comments. A friend of mine wanted to take this part:"
intrigue made his point and hotbid made his, those 2 points weren't identical and most people agree with what hotbid said but not with what intrigue said. You however seem to be putting those 2 statements together and counting them as 1 when they aren't.
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Absolutely amazing article!
Personally, I never played BW (besides customs as a kid), and the BW games I've seen seem much more boring than SC2 (keep in mind I've probably watched maybe 1 or 2 games, can't seem to figure out what is THE flash game to watch). I know nothing about BW, but I can OBVIOUSLY tell that BW experience translates a lot into SC2 (as someone who's Diamond but never played RTS before).
The article definitely gave me a much deeper sense of... appreciation, perhaps, towards BW. I wish I knew what game to watch or maybe I should research about these guys more, but because of this article I definitely will.
edit: I'm really confused why people are upset about this article at all. Is it controversial or something? Forgive me for not reading every post, but I feel you have to be a bit clueless and almost disrespectful towards BW to not understand this article - and this is coming from someone who IS clueless about BW and lacks almost any respect toward BW (which this article has changed!).
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On May 13 2011 06:20 jacobmarlow wrote:
SC1 is dying game. Sc1 has been taken out of the WCG and Blizzcon. I really hope BW players move over eventually to face a foreign scene much dedicated than they were in the SC1 era. Only then will find out whether all the shit coming out of intrigue's mouth has some merit to it.
Ah, the loss of WCG and Blizzcon, a devestating blow for the BW pro scene indeed. People need to understand that BW has never been big outside of Korea.
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The only thing that really angers me about this post is how ignorant it is to assume that years of experience in a game meant nothing. Saying they could come and dominate within two weeks is ridiculous. There is more to learn than two weeks of time can provide you to be the best at SC2. And by the same token, there could be players who are new to SC2 that are the next Flash and Jaedong. What would you have said before Flash and Jaedong came along?
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EPT
