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On May 13 2011 05:50 RushWifDietCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. Thats the whole point of the article. Yes, in the foreign scene the bw pros are getting beaten by players from other RTS games. The foreign scene for broodwar was no where as near, let me repeat no where near toned as the Korean scene. Even the best foreign broodwar gamer could do nothing vs a mediocre Korean broodwar progamer. "at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good" Thats the thing you don't realize is that the good players from BW haven't even played SC2. You're using the low-tier broodwar progamers and collectively saying well broodwar players aren't doing very well.
And he's using low-tier Brood War progamers and collectively saying Brood War players are doing very well therefor the good Brood War players are going to shit on everyone.
I'm saying that there good SC2 players from BW and not so good SC2 players from BW, there are players with no BW background competing with them right now, so we can't outright say that 300 pros could come from BW at any time and slaughter the current competition, because it's not a 1-to-1 skill carry over. Also, players are going to be born in the SC2 scene, the next SC2 Flash doesn't have to be Flash from BW, it could be someone right out of the SC2 scene. The cream of the crop from BW like Flash and Jaedong would obviously do well because they're outliers, but not every BW player and their mother would slaughter everyone at the top of SC2, which is what the article suggests and uses to dismiss the current competitive scene in SC2.
It's just a load of rubbish.
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On May 13 2011 05:53 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:46 moopie wrote:On May 13 2011 05:30 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:25 moopie wrote:On May 13 2011 05:23 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:20 Kich wrote:
This is irrelevant but can people stop using the phrase "Have your cake and eat it too."? There is a near 1:1 of "Have Cake" to "Eat it too" ratio and the phrase is incredibly meaningless in the face of such statistics. In what country is it ok to bake someone a cake and explicitly tell them they aren't allowed to have it? No no, you can definitely bake your cake and eat it too. You just can't eat your cake and also have it. Law of conservation of matter and energy, etc. Well technically you will still possess the cake in one form or another, at least for a period of 4-6 hours. Law of bowel movements, etc. But then we come to the philosophical question of at what point does removing a grain of sand from a pile of sand make it no longer a pile? At what point along in the digestion can we conclusively say that, this is no longer cake, it's mush. Yet alas the term 'cake' is loosely defined to be a sweet food made from a mixture of flour, shortening, eggs, sugar etc (and even some of those are not mandatory). Since the initial ingredients are partly arbitrary, who's to say that once partially digested and thus missing some of the ingredients, the object is no longer fit for the definition of cake? But part of what makes a cake a cake is the organized structure of those ingredients. Had I the culinary gumption to throw together flour, shortening, eggs, etc into a heterogeneous sludge, we would not call that a cake.
WTF are you guys talking about here?
(lol)
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On May 13 2011 05:59 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:53 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:46 moopie wrote:On May 13 2011 05:30 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:25 moopie wrote:On May 13 2011 05:23 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:20 Kich wrote:
This is irrelevant but can people stop using the phrase "Have your cake and eat it too."? There is a near 1:1 of "Have Cake" to "Eat it too" ratio and the phrase is incredibly meaningless in the face of such statistics. In what country is it ok to bake someone a cake and explicitly tell them they aren't allowed to have it? No no, you can definitely bake your cake and eat it too. You just can't eat your cake and also have it. Law of conservation of matter and energy, etc. Well technically you will still possess the cake in one form or another, at least for a period of 4-6 hours. Law of bowel movements, etc. But then we come to the philosophical question of at what point does removing a grain of sand from a pile of sand make it no longer a pile? At what point along in the digestion can we conclusively say that, this is no longer cake, it's mush. Yet alas the term 'cake' is loosely defined to be a sweet food made from a mixture of flour, shortening, eggs, sugar etc (and even some of those are not mandatory). Since the initial ingredients are partly arbitrary, who's to say that once partially digested and thus missing some of the ingredients, the object is no longer fit for the definition of cake? But part of what makes a cake a cake is the organized structure of those ingredients. Had I the culinary gumption to throw together flour, shortening, eggs, etc into a heterogeneous sludge, we would not call that a cake. WTF are you guys talking about here? (lol)
Cake obviously, don't try to derail a good conversation!
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On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point.
No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded.
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More people are getting the article than you guys think. Hell, many have acknowledged that by WB standards the top pros here are mediocre.
The thing that is bothering a lot of people is the article calling the current proscene a farce based on the writer feeling that only bad players are playing(debatable since you can say that while some skills may overlap SC2 is still a different game) somewhat makes the competition less legit which is a terrible way of thinking. Does me knowing that the skill level in BW is much higher this days than in the Boxer/Yellow days stops me from enjoying the VODS? Hell no!
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I agree with the OP statistically, but I don't think I feel the same way emotionally. I like the irreverent mayhem of the leagues in SC2. It's kind of nice to have such an unpredictable meta-game. For me, at this point, watching S-class Brood War games with Flash or Jaedong is, for the most part, like watching someone take a free throw in Basketball, or kick an extra point in American Football. It isn't fun or exciting, it's either mundane or kind of horrific. The expectation that Flash or Jaedong should win is so overwhelming, it makes wins boring and losses just kind of sad. But SC2 definately lacks S-class players, a combination of low-skill and the high variance of the game given balance changes and just a general lack of knowledge about the meta game because of how young SC2 still is.
So I guess it comes down to what style you prefer, or at least that is how I see it. What makes starcraft (BW or SC2) interesting and dramatic to you? The rare head-to-head between the best players in the world or the always dramatic always compelling story of two young bucks trying to make a place in the world. For me, BW feels just a little bit predictable, and when it rarely surprises us by knocking out Flash and Jaedong early, a lot of people end up disappointed because they don't get to see the big-time S-class players duke it out in the finals, which was what they were waiting for all along.
And now that SC2 is out, I can't ever imagine that BW is ever going to change and I certainly can't see how it could get better. It is doomed to be inflexible, at this point, no one could possibly dethrone Flash in any serious way until Flash chooses to give up his seat at the top and move on. I say this because Flash has already proven himself to be the best progamer currently playing, right? Well, in that case, he's already got it in the bag, because where is BW gonna find any new talent to come take his title? I have to imagine that SC2 is snapping up all of the 15 year old would-be Flashes with quick fingers and a dream. Who would enter the daunting trenches of BW when, as the OP suggests, glory and riches in SC2 are simply waiting to be plucked by the brave and determined? So even if it's premature as a competitive e-sport and even if it still needs work, yeah, I'm gonna stick to SC2 because what I value most is the chance to watch a new batch of incredible dreamers walk on stage and play incredibly.
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On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded.
"I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue
Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something.
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On May 13 2011 05:58 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:50 RushWifDietCoke wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. Thats the whole point of the article. Yes, in the foreign scene the bw pros are getting beaten by players from other RTS games. The foreign scene for broodwar was no where as near, let me repeat no where near toned as the Korean scene. Even the best foreign broodwar gamer could do nothing vs a mediocre Korean broodwar progamer. "at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good" Thats the thing you don't realize is that the good players from BW haven't even played SC2. You're using the low-tier broodwar progamers and collectively saying well broodwar players aren't doing very well. And he's using low-tier Brood War progamers and collectively saying Brood War players are doing very well therefor the good Brood War players are going to shit on everyone. I'm saying that there good SC2 players from BW and not so good SC2 players from BW, there are players with no BW background competing with them right now, so we can't outright say that 300 pros could come from BW at any time and slaughter the current competition, because it's not a 1-to-1 skill carry over. Also, players are going to be born in the SC2 scene, the next SC2 Flash doesn't have to be Flash from BW, it could be someone right out of the SC2 scene. The cream of the crop from BW like Flash and Jaedong would obviously do well because they're outliers, but not every BW player and their mother would slaughter everyone at the top of SC2, which is what the article suggests and uses to dismiss the current competitive scene in SC2. It's just a load of rubbish.
You also need to learn to read.
You guys are embarrassing.
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On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something.
How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman?
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People underestimate the amount of time it takes to truly reach your potential in a game. I'd estimate that for even the quickest learners of the greatest talent, it would take at least 5000 hours of playing. Consider that playing 12 hours a day since the beta started would still mean you haven't played that much. All the players in the scene have a LOAD of place to improve on in just the mechanical facets of the game. Beyond this, strategy is still extremely volatile, and the metagame is shifting wildly. It will take at least a year before the scene begins to have some order in it.
I think this is way to early to make judgement.
+ Show Spoiler +That being said, Flash and Jaedong are beyond prodigies. They are brilliant tacticians with hand-eye coordination and multitasking that are frankly leagues ahead of anyone else. Prior to watching them play, I couldn't even imagine that kind of game.
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On May 13 2011 05:53 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 05:46 moopie wrote:On May 13 2011 05:30 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:25 moopie wrote:On May 13 2011 05:23 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 13 2011 05:20 Kich wrote:
This is irrelevant but can people stop using the phrase "Have your cake and eat it too."? There is a near 1:1 of "Have Cake" to "Eat it too" ratio and the phrase is incredibly meaningless in the face of such statistics. In what country is it ok to bake someone a cake and explicitly tell them they aren't allowed to have it? No no, you can definitely bake your cake and eat it too. You just can't eat your cake and also have it. Law of conservation of matter and energy, etc. Well technically you will still possess the cake in one form or another, at least for a period of 4-6 hours. Law of bowel movements, etc. But then we come to the philosophical question of at what point does removing a grain of sand from a pile of sand make it no longer a pile? At what point along in the digestion can we conclusively say that, this is no longer cake, it's mush. Yet alas the term 'cake' is loosely defined to be a sweet food made from a mixture of flour, shortening, eggs, sugar etc (and even some of those are not mandatory). Since the initial ingredients are partly arbitrary, who's to say that once partially digested and thus missing some of the ingredients, the object is no longer fit for the definition of cake? But part of what makes a cake a cake is the organized structure of those ingredients. Had I the culinary gumption to throw together flour, shortening, eggs, etc into a heterogeneous sludge, we would not call that a cake.
So then it is more about the shape and presentation than the ingredients, and yet surely there are examples of food-like items who fit into the cake catagory that defy this line of reasoning. I give you exhibit A. This edible object (I shall refrain from calling it cake due to the discussion in question) will likely come out looking similar to the way it goes in. At which point does it lose its 'cakeness', or does it not have it to begin with?
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On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman?
What you said: the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched.
What OP says: I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the POTENTIAL to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment
God, I am like the best at teaching 3rd graders (I dont judge how many times you have repeated)
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On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something.
Ok so I read it, 300 current pros and semi-pros with the potential to come and dominate sc2 at any moment? How is that not saying the top 300 pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched unless you want to argue that he used "have the potential" because if that's the case, a ton more people that just those 300 have the potential to be at the top of sc2 and that means that the previous statement was there for absolutely no reason.
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The whole idea that old bw pros are superior in ANY way other than experience with mechanics (note I didnt say they are better, just more experienced) just because they are old bw pros is crazy.
Pros were chosen for teams because they showed a certain aptitude for rts which may or may not mean better sc2 play.
A much more rational and informed post would have been to simply say that we want to see what korean style discipline can do for sc2 pros. As is this post completely lacks an understanding of the people involved and ignorance of just how intensely some people are already training.
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On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman?
Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year:
"Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. "
Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank.
child please.
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I think that, in the end, this editorial stems from the most common symptom of Newgameitus: Intrigue, you need to be more patient. SC2 came out last August, and people are still figuring out the game. I dare you to show me an example of better BW play in 1999 than MarineKing's marine micro, or IdrA 6-pooling Jinro and bringing all his drones. I dare you to find more entertaining play from BW that close after retail. If you give SC2 time, it will get better. It's literally getting better all the time. If you're looking for crisper, more refined play than SC2 is now, go to BW, where the pro's have had 13 years to figure the game out.
Complaints about balance stem from the same issue: the game is too young for people to say "this unit is imbalanced, it's impossible to beat." The reason Protoss seems so good right now is because the top tier of Protoss players have been innovating and exploring their race with more success than those of Terran or Zerg. With time, the game will balance itself out, even if Blizzard just sits around for the next 10 years, the top level of play will balance. In the same way, the top level of play will improve. It just takes patience.
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On May 13 2011 06:10 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. Ok so I read it, 300 current pros and semi-pros with the potential to come and dominate sc2 at any moment? How is that not saying the top 300 pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched unless you want to argue that he used "have the potential" because if that's the case, a ton more people that just those 300 have the potential to be at the top of sc2 and that means that the previous statement was there for absolutely no reason.
Good. Now Learn2read the WHOLE article.
Heres another line: "The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top.
"
YEP HE IS DEF SAYING D+ ICCUP SCRUBS STOMPING ON SC2 N00BTACULARS. YEP YEP. HERAPDERP
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On May 13 2011 06:09 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? What you said: the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. What OP says: I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the POTENTIAL to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment God, I am like the best at teaching 3rd graders (I dont judge how many times you have repeated)
Why the fuck would he go on to say that it cheapens the competition right now unless he's implying that those 300 BW pros would dominate the current scene. Sure, any number of people have the potential to come into any sports scene and do well, but that wouldn't cheapen the opinion of the current play in that scene unless you're saying the current play is shit compared to the play of the other potential players.
Where is your reading comprehension?
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On May 13 2011 06:11 dangots0ul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 06:07 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 06:04 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 06:01 Cathasaigh wrote:On May 13 2011 05:47 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:33 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:26 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:21 Mordiford wrote:On May 13 2011 05:18 dangots0ul wrote:On May 13 2011 05:17 Darksidius wrote:
Wow, what a douchebag-post (can't find a better word for it). What's the point exactly of this frontpage article? BW-players are better than SC2-players? Even if that is the case, what value adds the article to the community?
The whining levels of the article are comparable to the average imbalance posts, only this time you say SC2 players are underpowered compared to BW players. Because the top SC2 players are BW averages --> fails... And some top SC2 players never played BW, and some of the "above-averages" from BW aren't doing as well as some of the no-names. What's the fucking point? It's a different game. Some people are doing well, some aren't. The only "above-average" from BW is MVP. Don't say some cause there are only guys with less than 50% win average, washed up old pros and B-team trainer partners. saying "its a different game" doesn't auto prove shit - as your petty mind may think. Its a god damn pattern. Of the like 20-30 former BW players than went over They occupy top 8 out of 10. But i guess that means nothing because "its a different game" Please get your "fucking" point together before you try to make sense of it with content less statements. try again Nice try, but if you want to base it on the article in particular, it makes stretches itself when it lists the "above average" BW pros, and I'm referring to the article, here being Rainbow and Ace mentioned in the article. Their success has been middling at best. There are plenty of non-BW players who are up and coming and doing well, obviously players with previous RTS experience are going to be the first to excel in the scene, there isn't some huge clear cut pattern for BW though. In the foreign scene, some BW pros are getting beaten by players from other RTSs or even players with little RTS experience at all. Some basics carry over but it's not a 1 to 1 and there isn't even a seriously visible pattern, at the start obviously the people from BW were going to look good, but now the ones who are actually making an effort to stay relevant are staying relevant. The post actually mentions a number of successful non-BW players, but dismisses them because they don't make his point. It's kind of silly. The article is wrong. Rainbows last game was 08. The three years up to his last game he was 20-31. He was decent way way back, but he would fall into the washed up old pros category with Boxer and Nada. I think the Ace thing is a joke. Or by distinction he doesn't mean distinction in terms of skill. Dude, as far as I can remember, was a B-team scrub and occasional proleague appearences. Now your making more sense. But your proving the OPs point. If Flash come to SC2 now, it would be reasonable, that he would tear it up. A few years from now, he may not tear it up as he would now or even as quickly. THe point is, Flash and JD have general RTS skills that have been cultivated and weeded out through an intense 10 year old system. There is something about these individuals that make them good at RTS (just like now the BW scrubs are tearing it up now). This is OPs point. IF Flash came in the future its not a question of IF but WHEN (assuming SC2 just doesn't cultivate a super-Flash, if i may, by then but seems unlikely with the work ethic SC2 players current have due to team strucutring compaired to BW). Maybe OP is bias, but this doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. No... the OP's point was that the top 300 bw pros and semi-pros would be better than people in sc2 if they switched. Most people don't have a problem with saying that Flash or JD would be at the top of sc2 if they switched but to say that the top 300 would easily be at the top of the sc2 scene if they switched is just retarded. "I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games." - intrigue Learn2read. When is someone who both understands english and stops constructing strawman arguments going to say something. How is that far and away from what he said? 300 Brood War pros have the potential to walk over and shit on the pro scene in SC2 at any moment after a couple of months. He goes on to say that it cheapens the competition right now, further implying that the players right now would just get dominated if the REAL pros got serious about SC2. What the fuck are we not comprehending, where is our strawman? Heres a little extra credit, cause I don't want to see you back here next year: "Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. " Leta and Zero are in this weeks Power Rank. child please.
Ok, you just quoted hotbid who said something COMPLETELY different than what the rest of the post was saying, good job. He also said "The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash."
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interesting post, good read
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EPT
