EPTHere To Stay - Page 7
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timmeh
Austria177 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
BTW, I loved this picture caption: "Jaedong's hands are an essential part of his play style". errr... Thank god he has hands, I guess. My hands are an essential part of my play style as well since I would never be able to play with my feet. Thanks for the write up Plexa, you rule (altough not as much as the Dong). | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
I, too, am a pretty serious JD anti-fan. It's tough to come to terms with just how good/significant he is... | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
it was really insightful into the way jaedong plays | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 19 2009 21:30 Elroi wrote: You're not the only person to talk about ZvZ so I'll try to make a collective justification of my views. Up until the Calm semifinal Jaedong played every ZvZ with the mindset that whomever had the best 'physical' won. Indeed, I can find you interviews which justify this statement (and will do so at your request). Calm raped Jaedong with clever play - and after that Jaedong began to use hidden lings and whatnot in ZvZ and started uses more strategy in his play. So yea, in ZvZ, atleast recently, he has been really creative and strategic but still he's just copying what calm did to him so I don't know what to make of that exactly.I love your write up! But I have to say that fore me JD is one of the most intelligent players around which is most visible in his ZvZ where he sneaks zerglings and really seem to read the opponents mind with superior BOs. I think you tend to fall in the usual trap that consists of thinking that one has to be one of two things like: artistically or mathematically skilled, good at micro or macro, intelligent or beautiful etc.. I think that is a stereotypical way of thinking, though I agree that JDs builds tend to be more macro heavy and "straight up" than those of - say - Fantasy or Boxer. One uf the best write ups I have seen on TL though, great work! And I have to add that I think WCG Korea = 1\2 Starleague at most. A lot less pressure, more active seeding, smaller tournament etc | ||
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okum
France5779 Posts
On September 19 2009 22:22 timmeh wrote: He may be here to stay, but I think he will never reach that status of Boxer or Savior in terms of popularity. Unfortunately he is not very innovative. Quite obviously, on the other hand, his mechanics are second to none. But I think Starcraft lives - at least for me - from innovative, cheese, unexpected play, rather than repetitive perfect execution. Jaedong is definitely not repetitive. He cheeses frequently and uses the full arsenal of zerg strategies in all matchups. Z just doesn't have as many fancy options as T and P in the cheese department. | ||
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4759 Posts
On September 20 2009 00:26 Plexa wrote: You're not the only person to talk about ZvZ so I'll try to make a collective justification of my views. Up until the Calm semifinal Jaedong played every ZvZ with the mindset that whomever had the best 'physical' won. Indeed, I can find you interviews which justify this statement (and will do so at your request). Calm raped Jaedong with clever play - and after that Jaedong began to use hidden lings and whatnot in ZvZ and started uses more strategy in his play. So yea, in ZvZ, atleast recently, he has been really creative and strategic but still he's just copying what calm did to him so I don't know what to make of that exactly. I have to disagree. Jaedong uses hidden lings in ZvZ since forever. Don't have the time to look for all those game, but maybe someone else does or has a better memory than me. I completely agree, that mechanics are the strongest part of his play and the main reason he is the best right now. But I won't underestimate his potential when it comes to strategies. He may not be Boxer-esque, and sometimes he does not adapt too well, but he surely has his moments. Trying to think of some examples, the trap he set for Canata in Game5 of the MSL-quarterfinals was beautiful, there is not a doubt in my mind that it wasn't planned. I also liked his hydra/lurk on RH3 against Flash in the WL-Playoffs. I used to watch nearly every pro game during that time and there was nearly no Hydra/lurk games against terran back then. I also believe that no one expected that he would use Hydra/lurk against Fantasy on Outsider in the semis. He found a counter to Fantasys tvz style on Outsider (which is pretty damn strong) within a week, without a Julyzerg and Savior within his coaching staff. Also the game against Kal on HR in the MSL Ro16 comes to mind. Although I don't remember all the details, I believe he brilliantly faked a 3hatch Hydra all-in and transitioned into heavy macro mode, and Kal could not do anything after warping in too many cannons. Just some examples from the top of my head. I really believe that you underestimate his strategic qualities, but I agree, they are overshadowed by his unbelievable mechanics. | ||
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SuperaddE
Sweden132 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 19 2009 19:30 Polyphasic wrote: i dislike how so many people always say that a person's strength is some sort of psychological thing. though it's true a lot of the cases, it doesn't make them different from many other competitors who are just as strong psychologically. Except in this case it's actually true. His game 1 play is not that much better than Flash or Bisu (arguably, they make better showings in small sets and single matches, given their statistics). Jaedong has the endurance to keep going through a match. There's a reason that he's the comeback champion: you compare the FPVODs of his opponents and competitors through a set, and they make more mistakes in game 3-5 (Fantasy and Bisu epitomize this), when he doesn't. Even opponents like Fantasy who dominate him 1-set games like PL finals just don't have the mental fortitude he does. Like it or not, Jaedong's star factor is something that comes into play late in sets, because that star factor just doesn't show up in 1-set venues. In part, I think this might be why people refuse to believe Jaedong is as good as he is--when they watch a Jaedong Bo5, they don't see him making some epic play, but they see his opponent making some epic fail ("it's called hold position, bro", fantasy's retarded wall-in in RotK, or Flash 14cc-ing into a 9pool for the 23758291857th time). But frankly, that's part of Jaedong's greatness--that he makes so few mistakes, and his opponents can't keep up. The secret to Jaedong is not innovation, like Boxer or Savior, but pure, simple, perfection. | ||
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ArnO-
United States258 Posts
On September 19 2009 21:25 Plexa wrote: I'm not convinced Jaedong is leading any revolution on the ZvP front. Yes he's refining the builds and whatnot, but that's not revolutionary. He's not ahead of the curve, he's right on the curve. Zero is an example of a player who is ahead of the Curve - his use of Queens on Heartbreak for instance. Hyun, as terrible as he is, also is ahead of the curve but is so much weaker in every other area lolol. Again, its the Jaedong formula in use  Jaedong was the one who showed everybody queens are a viable unit making it possible for people like Zero to incorporate it into their play. Although I would still agree that Zero is more of an innovator than Jaedong. | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
 thanks :D | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1782 Posts
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MisteR
Netherlands595 Posts
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
Jaedong? bisu? i think Bisu is better than Jaedong, Jaedong havent invented anything he just play straigh up, and to keep in count he is Zerg user Zerg is 1a2a3a4a EZZ race IMO | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
On September 20 2009 00:52 Malinor wrote: I have to disagree. Jaedong uses hidden lings in ZvZ since forever. Don't have the time to look for all those game, but maybe someone else does or has a better memory than me. I completely agree, that mechanics are the strongest part of his play and the main reason he is the best right now. But I won't underestimate his potential when it comes to strategies. He may not be Boxeresque, and sometimes he does not adapt too well, but he surely has his moments. Trying to think of some examples, the trap he set for Canata in Game5 of the MSL-quarterfinals was beautiful, there is not a doubt in my mind that it wasn't planned. I also liked his hydra/lurk on RH3 against Flash in the WL-Playoffs. I used to watch nearly every pro game during that time and there was nearly no Hydra/lurk games against terran bach then. I also believe that no one expected that he would use Hydra/lurk against Fantasy on Outsider in the semis. He found a counter to Fantasys tvz style on Outsider (which is pretty damn strong) within a week, without a Julyzerg and Savior within his coaching staff. Also the game against Kal on HR in the MSL Ro16 comes to mind. Although I don't remember all the details, I believe he brilliantly faked a 3hatch Hydra all-in and transitioned into heavy macro mode, and Kal could not do anything after warping too many cannons. Just some examples from the top of my head. I really believe that you underestimate his strategic qualities, but I agree, they are overshadowed by his unbelievable mechanics. I would like to add the super fast hidden min-only expo vs FBH on destination, that was just sexy | ||
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Sc2ggRise
United States607 Posts
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