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On July 24 2012 01:08 Lokerek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 01:03 Squeegy wrote:On July 24 2012 00:58 Lokerek wrote:On July 23 2012 19:30 Squeegy wrote:On July 23 2012 10:34 Lokerek wrote:Yeah, Hopefully Jaedong can catch up fast. The elephant in the room theory proves to be false and it was quite obvious. They wont come dominate since they were meant to play BW not SC2 so it's going to be hard to catch up to GSL players. Sad to see Dong playing SC2 since it is not close at all to how amazing his BW play was  . The Elephant in the Room, that is dominate in a couple of months, was about SC2 a long time ago. Everybody realized (except those interpreting the thread wrong, of course) that the level of play has increased by a mile since then. Even then we see many Kespa players being competetive when playing two games and only with couple of months of practise. WCS has definitely shown that the Elephant thread had a point that still stands. I agree. That is also my point. They have potential to become Code S but there is still many people who write that they will dominate easily. Both BW and SC2 players are trained to play the game and bring up the stupidity of the Elephant Theory. You must have misunderstood. I strongly believe that Code S will be dominated by Kespa. It just will take longer than what the elephant thread claimed. That is because the game has evolved a lot from those times, however we are already seeing Kespa players becoming competetive despite little practise and having two games to play. Hmm it is possible in the long run. They have great team setup with people discussing strategies and preparing. In the TSL interview it was said that coach had to force two players to talk to each other (symbol and polt I think) which shows lack of communication. What I was talking is that for example Bisu keeps being terrible at SC2 while Jaedong shows improvement. It really comes down to how GSL players will start preparing (like discussions similar to KESPA teams) rather than being individuals. I'm just tired to see people still living the dream they switch and in 1 week they will dominate ...
Bisu had a period in BW too where he had to take time off, and now he has been very good in BW PL, so chances are he has practised it quite heavily.
Nobody has said they'll switch and dominate in a week. That is some kind of fantasy you constructed. Kespa players are expected to dominate because they have unmatched talent, work ethic and proper environment. GSL players are inferior in all three areas.
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On July 24 2012 00:34 Antimatterz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 23:25 Diizzy wrote:
looking at reality hes already playing code s level i believe. Realistically Jaedong is playing at the high code B level. I HIGHLY doubt that any kespa player atm could take on any code S GSL regular and convincingly beat them in a Bo5. They just don't have the experience and/or the game knowledge to match up with a code S player.
Do you happen to know it has already happened? and remember that they are still practicing both games... Just think for a moment, Code S players have already lost games against KeSPA players and they will start playing Sc2 full time only next season!! When HoTS will be release, GSL players won't have the knowledge advantage anymore...
So like I said before, you have to be clueless if you think that players such as Jaedong (im stating his name again because we are on his thread, but there is others) won't be dominating in Sc2.
Edit : And no way that Jaedong is playing like a Code B level, did you even watch his recent games?! I watched them all and I watch a lot of Sc2 also (GSL, MLG, etc) and he is better than code B. He is inconsistent I can agree with that, but hes way better than code B.
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On July 24 2012 01:03 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 00:58 Lokerek wrote:On July 23 2012 19:30 Squeegy wrote:On July 23 2012 10:34 Lokerek wrote:Yeah, Hopefully Jaedong can catch up fast. The elephant in the room theory proves to be false and it was quite obvious. They wont come dominate since they were meant to play BW not SC2 so it's going to be hard to catch up to GSL players. Sad to see Dong playing SC2 since it is not close at all to how amazing his BW play was . The Elephant in the Room, that is dominate in a couple of months, was about SC2 a long time ago. Everybody realized (except those interpreting the thread wrong, of course) that the level of play has increased by a mile since then. Even then we see many Kespa players being competetive when playing two games and only with couple of months of practise. WCS has definitely shown that the Elephant thread had a point that still stands. I agree. That is also my point. They have potential to become Code S but there is still many people who write that they will dominate easily. Both BW and SC2 players are trained to play the game and bring up the stupidity of the Elephant Theory. You must have misunderstood. I strongly believe that Code S will be dominated by Kespa. It just will take longer than what the elephant thread claimed. That is because the game has evolved a lot from those times, however we are already seeing Kespa players becoming competetive despite little practise and having two games to play.
Nope, I believe this is wrong. The concept behind the Elephant theory is that BW players have an intrinsic advantage because they played BW at the highest level. If it does happen, it will be in a long time and because of hard work and practice, characteristic which are completely unrelated to playing BW or not but rather to work ethics, which is a personal and team issue.
I really support Kespa players a lot and particularly Jaedong, but the Elephant theory is being proven wrong time and time again. In time, most likely scenario is a mixture between GSL and Kespa players dominating, but this mixture contradicts the elephant theory. GSL players and Kespa players and teams will nurture from playing each other and improve accordingly. The only way to prove the Elephant theory right would be to have separate leagues for a very long time and then clashing them in say, a year, and have Kespa dominate, which isn't going to happen.
All in all, it's time to forget about the elephant 
Go JD :D
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On July 24 2012 01:26 sM.Zik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 00:34 Antimatterz wrote:On July 23 2012 23:25 Diizzy wrote:
looking at reality hes already playing code s level i believe. Realistically Jaedong is playing at the high code B level. I HIGHLY doubt that any kespa player atm could take on any code S GSL regular and convincingly beat them in a Bo5. They just don't have the experience and/or the game knowledge to match up with a code S player. Do you happen to know it has already happened? and remember that they are still practicing both games... Just think for a moment, Code S players have already lost games against KeSPA players and they will start playing Sc2 full time only next season!! When HoTS will be release, GSL players won't have the knowledge advantage anymore... So like I said before, you have to be clueless if you think that players such as Jaedong (im stating his name again because we are on his thread, but there is others) won't be dominating in Sc2. Edit : And no way that Jaedong is playing like a Code B level, did you even watch his recent games?! I watched them all and I watch a lot of Sc2 also (GSL, MLG, etc) and he is better than code B. He is inconsistent I can agree with that, but hes way better than code B.
Code B is where the incredibly good, inconsistent players are lol, that is why I'm saying he is a Code B player. Code S players are ALWAYS amazing and consistent.
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On July 24 2012 01:33 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 01:03 Squeegy wrote:On July 24 2012 00:58 Lokerek wrote:On July 23 2012 19:30 Squeegy wrote:On July 23 2012 10:34 Lokerek wrote:Yeah, Hopefully Jaedong can catch up fast. The elephant in the room theory proves to be false and it was quite obvious. They wont come dominate since they were meant to play BW not SC2 so it's going to be hard to catch up to GSL players. Sad to see Dong playing SC2 since it is not close at all to how amazing his BW play was . The Elephant in the Room, that is dominate in a couple of months, was about SC2 a long time ago. Everybody realized (except those interpreting the thread wrong, of course) that the level of play has increased by a mile since then. Even then we see many Kespa players being competetive when playing two games and only with couple of months of practise. WCS has definitely shown that the Elephant thread had a point that still stands. I agree. That is also my point. They have potential to become Code S but there is still many people who write that they will dominate easily. Both BW and SC2 players are trained to play the game and bring up the stupidity of the Elephant Theory. You must have misunderstood. I strongly believe that Code S will be dominated by Kespa. It just will take longer than what the elephant thread claimed. That is because the game has evolved a lot from those times, however we are already seeing Kespa players becoming competetive despite little practise and having two games to play. Nope, I believe this is wrong. The concept behind the Elephant theory is that BW players have an intrinsic advantage because they played BW at the highest level. If it does happen, it will be in a long time and because of hard work and practice, characteristic which are completely unrelated to playing BW or not but rather to work ethics, which is a personal and team issue. I really support Kespa players a lot and particularly Jaedong, but the Elephant theory is being proven wrong time and time again. In time, most likely scenario is a mixture between GSL and Kespa players dominating, but this mixture contradicts the elephant theory. GSL players and Kespa players and teams will nurture from playing each other and improve accordingly. The only way to prove the Elephant theory right would be to have separate leagues for a very long time and then clashing them in say, a year, and have Kespa dominate, which isn't going to happen. All in all, it's time to forget about the elephant Go JD :D
Yep. It really comes down to work ethics. Just because they were in BW and in KESPA does not mean they have 180 IQ.
That would mean SC2 players are dumb - pointless bashing. They just switched since it would take too long for them to get to BW A -team and they can make more money in SC2. It's their team oriented structure that can lead them to success. I don't see teams like Slayers or IM becoming inferior to Kespa teams.
ForGG is the best proof. Big hype and then people started making excuses "he was in slump when he left bw"...
It's Jaedong's fanclub so lets not get off topic here 
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On July 24 2012 01:49 Antimatterz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 01:26 sM.Zik wrote:On July 24 2012 00:34 Antimatterz wrote:On July 23 2012 23:25 Diizzy wrote:
looking at reality hes already playing code s level i believe. Realistically Jaedong is playing at the high code B level. I HIGHLY doubt that any kespa player atm could take on any code S GSL regular and convincingly beat them in a Bo5. They just don't have the experience and/or the game knowledge to match up with a code S player. Do you happen to know it has already happened? and remember that they are still practicing both games... Just think for a moment, Code S players have already lost games against KeSPA players and they will start playing Sc2 full time only next season!! When HoTS will be release, GSL players won't have the knowledge advantage anymore... So like I said before, you have to be clueless if you think that players such as Jaedong (im stating his name again because we are on his thread, but there is others) won't be dominating in Sc2. Edit : And no way that Jaedong is playing like a Code B level, did you even watch his recent games?! I watched them all and I watch a lot of Sc2 also (GSL, MLG, etc) and he is better than code B. He is inconsistent I can agree with that, but hes way better than code B. Code B is where the incredibly good, inconsistent players are lol, that is why I'm saying he is a Code B player. Code S players are ALWAYS amazing and consistent.
... Sorry but no, Code S players aren't ALWAYS amazing and consistent... Anyway I don't know why im arguing with someone who is probably clueless about JD's play. Ive been watching the guy play since 2007 and I can tell without any doubt that he will crush most of your Code S players in max 1 year. With all due respect you probably don't know much about the Dong. He can practice 12 hours a day during years not stop and he won't stop untill he's among the best because that's how he is.
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On July 24 2012 02:22 sM.Zik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 01:49 Antimatterz wrote:On July 24 2012 01:26 sM.Zik wrote:On July 24 2012 00:34 Antimatterz wrote:On July 23 2012 23:25 Diizzy wrote:
looking at reality hes already playing code s level i believe. Realistically Jaedong is playing at the high code B level. I HIGHLY doubt that any kespa player atm could take on any code S GSL regular and convincingly beat them in a Bo5. They just don't have the experience and/or the game knowledge to match up with a code S player. Do you happen to know it has already happened? and remember that they are still practicing both games... Just think for a moment, Code S players have already lost games against KeSPA players and they will start playing Sc2 full time only next season!! When HoTS will be release, GSL players won't have the knowledge advantage anymore... So like I said before, you have to be clueless if you think that players such as Jaedong (im stating his name again because we are on his thread, but there is others) won't be dominating in Sc2. Edit : And no way that Jaedong is playing like a Code B level, did you even watch his recent games?! I watched them all and I watch a lot of Sc2 also (GSL, MLG, etc) and he is better than code B. He is inconsistent I can agree with that, but hes way better than code B. Code B is where the incredibly good, inconsistent players are lol, that is why I'm saying he is a Code B player. Code S players are ALWAYS amazing and consistent. ... Sorry but no, Code S players aren't ALWAYS amazing and consistent... Anyway I don't know why im arguing with someone who is probably clueless about JD's play. Ive been watching the guy play since 2007 and I can tell without any doubt that he will crush most of your Code S players in max 1 year. With all due respect you probably don't know much about the Dong. He can practice 12 hours a day during years not stop and he won't stop untill he's among the best because that's how he is.
Ok always may have been a stretch, but they are far more consistent than Jaedong is atm. Jaedong has had some really really good games, but when you compare him to someone like DRG or NesTea he simply is not there yet. Yes, he can beat them, but not consistently, and that is what matters. Unless Jaedong manages to continually impress me for all of round three then I will still say he is top Code B. Also, in 1 year he could easily become a top player. But that is in a whole year and doesn't change anything about how he plays right now.
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On July 24 2012 02:26 Antimatterz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 02:22 sM.Zik wrote:On July 24 2012 01:49 Antimatterz wrote:On July 24 2012 01:26 sM.Zik wrote:On July 24 2012 00:34 Antimatterz wrote:On July 23 2012 23:25 Diizzy wrote:
looking at reality hes already playing code s level i believe. Realistically Jaedong is playing at the high code B level. I HIGHLY doubt that any kespa player atm could take on any code S GSL regular and convincingly beat them in a Bo5. They just don't have the experience and/or the game knowledge to match up with a code S player. Do you happen to know it has already happened? and remember that they are still practicing both games... Just think for a moment, Code S players have already lost games against KeSPA players and they will start playing Sc2 full time only next season!! When HoTS will be release, GSL players won't have the knowledge advantage anymore... So like I said before, you have to be clueless if you think that players such as Jaedong (im stating his name again because we are on his thread, but there is others) won't be dominating in Sc2. Edit : And no way that Jaedong is playing like a Code B level, did you even watch his recent games?! I watched them all and I watch a lot of Sc2 also (GSL, MLG, etc) and he is better than code B. He is inconsistent I can agree with that, but hes way better than code B. Code B is where the incredibly good, inconsistent players are lol, that is why I'm saying he is a Code B player. Code S players are ALWAYS amazing and consistent. ... Sorry but no, Code S players aren't ALWAYS amazing and consistent... Anyway I don't know why im arguing with someone who is probably clueless about JD's play. Ive been watching the guy play since 2007 and I can tell without any doubt that he will crush most of your Code S players in max 1 year. With all due respect you probably don't know much about the Dong. He can practice 12 hours a day during years not stop and he won't stop untill he's among the best because that's how he is. Ok always may have been a stretch, but they are far more consistent than Jaedong is atm. Jaedong has had some really really good games, but when you compare him to someone like DRG or NesTea he simply is not there yet. Yes, he can beat them, but not consistently, and that is what matters. Unless Jaedong manages to continually impress me for all of round three then I will still say he is top Code B. Also, in 1 year he could easily become a top player. But that is in a whole year and doesn't change anything about how he plays right now.
I always said that he will be among the best in one year, I never said he was currently among the best so I don't get your point. People seem to forget that they switched only a few months ago and that they are still practicing 2 games.
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On July 24 2012 02:26 Antimatterz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 02:22 sM.Zik wrote:On July 24 2012 01:49 Antimatterz wrote:On July 24 2012 01:26 sM.Zik wrote:On July 24 2012 00:34 Antimatterz wrote:On July 23 2012 23:25 Diizzy wrote:
looking at reality hes already playing code s level i believe. Realistically Jaedong is playing at the high code B level. I HIGHLY doubt that any kespa player atm could take on any code S GSL regular and convincingly beat them in a Bo5. They just don't have the experience and/or the game knowledge to match up with a code S player. Do you happen to know it has already happened? and remember that they are still practicing both games... Just think for a moment, Code S players have already lost games against KeSPA players and they will start playing Sc2 full time only next season!! When HoTS will be release, GSL players won't have the knowledge advantage anymore... So like I said before, you have to be clueless if you think that players such as Jaedong (im stating his name again because we are on his thread, but there is others) won't be dominating in Sc2. Edit : And no way that Jaedong is playing like a Code B level, did you even watch his recent games?! I watched them all and I watch a lot of Sc2 also (GSL, MLG, etc) and he is better than code B. He is inconsistent I can agree with that, but hes way better than code B. Code B is where the incredibly good, inconsistent players are lol, that is why I'm saying he is a Code B player. Code S players are ALWAYS amazing and consistent. ... Sorry but no, Code S players aren't ALWAYS amazing and consistent... Anyway I don't know why im arguing with someone who is probably clueless about JD's play. Ive been watching the guy play since 2007 and I can tell without any doubt that he will crush most of your Code S players in max 1 year. With all due respect you probably don't know much about the Dong. He can practice 12 hours a day during years not stop and he won't stop untill he's among the best because that's how he is. Ok always may have been a stretch, but they are far more consistent than Jaedong is atm. Jaedong has had some really really good games, but when you compare him to someone like DRG or NesTea he simply is not there yet. Yes, he can beat them, but not consistently, and that is what matters. Unless Jaedong manages to continually impress me for all of round three then I will still say he is top Code B. Also, in 1 year he could easily become a top player. But that is in a whole year and doesn't change anything about how he plays right now.
??? I don't actually have an opinion on the matter, but I have to point out your logical flaw here.
When you compare people to DRG, almost no one is "there yet", even most of the code S zergs. Why are you using the top of code S as a measuring stick on whether someone is "Code S" or not. Wouldn't you use the bottom of Code S? If he's better than this person, then he is Code S material. If he is worse, then he isn't. Using the top of Code S proves nothing, as if he is better than the top of Code S, he is probably a potential GSL winner. [I don't think anyone is arguing that he a potential GSL winner]. However, if he is worse than the top of Code S, that means he could be.... mid Code S? Bottom code S? Code A? etc. DRG is arguably the best Zerg right now. By your logic, everyone else in Code S is "top Code B".
But anyways, this argument is a moot point. It doesn't matter where he is, and the only reason anyone debates his skill is so they can feel proud about being a fan of such a talented player.
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On July 24 2012 01:33 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 01:03 Squeegy wrote:On July 24 2012 00:58 Lokerek wrote:On July 23 2012 19:30 Squeegy wrote:On July 23 2012 10:34 Lokerek wrote:Yeah, Hopefully Jaedong can catch up fast. The elephant in the room theory proves to be false and it was quite obvious. They wont come dominate since they were meant to play BW not SC2 so it's going to be hard to catch up to GSL players. Sad to see Dong playing SC2 since it is not close at all to how amazing his BW play was . The Elephant in the Room, that is dominate in a couple of months, was about SC2 a long time ago. Everybody realized (except those interpreting the thread wrong, of course) that the level of play has increased by a mile since then. Even then we see many Kespa players being competetive when playing two games and only with couple of months of practise. WCS has definitely shown that the Elephant thread had a point that still stands. I agree. That is also my point. They have potential to become Code S but there is still many people who write that they will dominate easily. Both BW and SC2 players are trained to play the game and bring up the stupidity of the Elephant Theory. You must have misunderstood. I strongly believe that Code S will be dominated by Kespa. It just will take longer than what the elephant thread claimed. That is because the game has evolved a lot from those times, however we are already seeing Kespa players becoming competetive despite little practise and having two games to play. Nope, I believe this is wrong. The concept behind the Elephant theory is that BW players have an intrinsic advantage because they played BW at the highest level. If it does happen, it will be in a long time and because of hard work and practice, characteristic which are completely unrelated to playing BW or not but rather to work ethics, which is a personal and team issue. I really support Kespa players a lot and particularly Jaedong, but the Elephant theory is being proven wrong time and time again. In time, most likely scenario is a mixture between GSL and Kespa players dominating, but this mixture contradicts the elephant theory. GSL players and Kespa players and teams will nurture from playing each other and improve accordingly. The only way to prove the Elephant theory right would be to have separate leagues for a very long time and then clashing them in say, a year, and have Kespa dominate, which isn't going to happen. All in all, it's time to forget about the elephant Go JD :D
No, you have misunderstood the Elephant thread. The idea is that BW had a scene that was by far the most difficult to succeed in all esports. Those people who dominated SC2 didn't make it there for example. Because the scene is so difficult, it must mean that only those with the most talent and hardest work ethic would succeed. These are people like Jaedong. Nobody ever claimed there is some magical quality to BW that makes them succeed. And of course the Elephant is being proven wrong by Kespa players dominating. They won't be doing it as quickly as the Elephant thread claimed because the game has evolved a lot from since then. But as long as they do, I am afraid, the Elephant is proven true. And I of course have no doubt in my mind that it will happen. It won't even take that long I dare say, perhaps a year.
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On July 24 2012 00:55 Squeegy wrote:
Nestea got 2-0d today by Snow.
Hes turned total Zergbong.
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On July 23 2012 23:29 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 23:17 sM.Zik wrote:
Seriously, just wait. Probably around HoTS release, Jaedong and some others KeSPA players will most likely dominate the scene. You have to be clueless about Starcraft to ignore that possibilty. I don't think so. Mechanics and multitasking may have been the most important thing in BW but it isn't in SC2. They will probably be near the top but they won't dominate.
a masters can beat a diamond by jsut macroing and completely overruning a diamond even if the diamond has the better army comp
mechanics might not be the be all end all but unless Jaedongs startegy is diamond level with good mechanics hell be code S
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Interesting ZvT in the ace match, using his infestors and a group of lings to hold the terran push while he countered with his whole army. NEED MORE ZVT FROM JAEDONG!
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Fucking sick man seeing him win that ace match put the biggest smile on my face rofl. He played that so beautifully it's just insane ^^
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Jaedong is Team 8's ultimate weapon...never losing an ace match sign me up!!
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wow, impressive play in the ace match, good job!:D
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Really impressive play in the ace match. That game was so one sided, I actually felt bad for Bogus. Jeadong counter attacking with the lings and blings and destroying Bogus's base while still stopping the push.
Jaedong is really developing nicely in Sc2, it's not going to be long until he'll be able to keep up with the current top sc2 pros.
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someone needs to get a picture of that smirk after winning the acematch
EDIT: Here it is, from BW LR thread
![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/15gw8ra.png)
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I read some articles and get statistics. Why Jaedong is not bonjwa?
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On July 24 2012 19:15 Prince_Stranger wrote:
I read some articles and get statistics. Why Jaedong is not bonjwa?
That title is only given to someone who dominated an era. He performed well but could not be called one due to existence of Flash. Well since bonjwa has the connotation of an emperor, i would rather call him "The Tyrant" because being evil is 10x cooler.
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EPT
