EPTWatching their streams to time when you search for a game so that you will go up against them is perfectly fine, and hilarious.
Cruncher Fan club - Page 20
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This isn't a thread about Artosis. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Watching their streams to time when you search for a game so that you will go up against them is perfectly fine, and hilarious. | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
The Idra Anti-fanclub | ||
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TheGreatWhiteHope_
United States335 Posts
On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game. If you can't see what "insert name of fat-polish-protoss player" supposedly did was ethically flawed, then I fear your overall judgment and moral fiber. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Cronium
Australia8 Posts
On May 06 2011 15:39 travis wrote: Watching or listening to another player's stream while laddering against them absolutely isn't acceptable on tl.net. Watching their streams to time when you search for a game so that you will go up against them is perfectly fine, and hilarious. Does anyone else feel that this is a bit over the line? While I am no giant fan of idra, going out of your way to play him with the sole intention of making him rage, all the while he is trying to contribute with some commentary seems like a real dick move to me. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
On May 06 2011 15:51 TheGreatWhiteHope_ wrote: If you can't see what "insert name of fat-polish-protoss player" supposedly did was ethically flawed, then I fear your overall judgment and moral fiber. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul. If you are going to refute my points can you actually quote what I said entirely. I am not interested in your argument at all, as quoting only my intro is just pathetic. I already said that it was morally wrong and bad sportsmanship, all I said was that it was not literally defined as cheating. On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is the right thing to do morally, but honestly let it go, its legitimate in a way and no policies are being broken. By terms it is not cheating, as no specific rules are being broken. Stream is released to public, Cruncher is the public, no rules prohibit him from viewing. Sure Cruncher may not have good sportsmanship, but did he "cheat?" No. Btw really? Ban Cruncher? I understand if people are upset that he did something morally wrong, but ban? What rules did he break exactly? I am not a cruncher fan, I have not even seen a single game he played before making this post, in fact I was always a fan of IdrA since 2008, but I will not make delusional arguments just because my fave player lost 10 ladder points to a legitimate strategy. So if anyone can actually debate this in a sophisticated style instead of just capsing about how he cheated, even though he did not, I would appreciate it. Again I am not doing this in defense of Cruncher, as I barely heard of him, but I cannot stand silent looking at such messed up arguments some people are making. | ||
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Finite
Canada20 Posts
On May 06 2011 13:31 Nu11 wrote: What? there were no zealots, IdrAs Roaches did not die, and CrunCher responded to every single move IdrA did without scouting or any vision. Idra left the second he seen that CrunCher had blind countered him when IdrAs play normally would win agaisnt what he was doing. Not saying he cheated as I said above, but don't make things up. There were zealots and he did lose like 2 roaches to cannons... wth are you talking about. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
That being said he's a great player, and I am rather inspired that such a young guy can become so goddamn good. | ||
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Duoma
United States396 Posts
On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is the right thing to do morally, but honestly let it go, its legitimate in a way and no policies are being broken. By terms it is not cheating, as no specific rules are being broken. Stream is released to public, Cruncher is the public, no rules prohibit him from viewing. Sure Cruncher may not have good sportsmanship, but did he "cheat?" No. Btw really? Ban Cruncher? I understand if people are upset that he did something morally wrong, but ban? What rules did he break exactly? I am not a cruncher fan, I have not even seen a single game he played before making this post, in fact I was always a fan of IdrA since 2008, but I will not make delusional arguments just because my fave player lost 10 ladder points to a legitimate strategy. So if anyone can actually debate this in a sophisticated style instead of just capsing about how he cheated, even though he did not, I would appreciate it. Again I am not doing this in defense of Cruncher, as I barely heard of him, but I cannot stand silent looking at such messed up arguments some people are making. The watching or listening to or "ghosting" of a stream violates the essential rules of the game of Starcraft. This is a game built upon imperfect information. Stream cheating in any fashion obviously violates that law of imperfect information. Stream cheating is cheating the game in the same sense as map hacks are cheating the game. Perhaps it is not quite as active or effective, but it is wrong for the same reason. You raise a somewhat valid point in saying that a stream is public information, and because of this I do not know what Battle.net's stance is on stream watching. However, I don't think anyone is discussing repercussions to Cruncher's Bnet account. We are talking about ramifications of his alleged actions in relation TL.net. Team Liquid is a site dedicated to competitive starcraft. As a featured streamer, Cruncher reflects on the image of team liquid. Stream cheating violates rules of competitive starcraft, and therefore anyone who partakes in those violations should have some punishment(on TL) for their actions. While this case is not quite the same, look back to stream-cheating punishments for past TSL qualifiers to get an idea of how TL feels about stream-watching. If cruncher did in fact cheat, he is reflecting poorly on team liquid as a featured streamer. Hopefully that somewhat clears up how exactly it is "cheating". (to be clear I'm not damning cruncher here. Just trying to answer the quoted question. While I think it is a suspicious situation, I don't see enough evidence pointing towards anything other than stream sniping.) | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
What rules did he break exactly? Do you really have to ask that? Is being able to see what the other person is doing really a "legitimate strategy" to you? I wonder how many people lack common sense on these forums, or maybe people are just playing devil's advocate for the sake of arguing. | ||
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PeZuY
935 Posts
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Lochat
United States270 Posts
On May 06 2011 16:49 PeZuY wrote: If you can't proof that he cheated, SNIPING is allowed as I have understood, then stop whining. If he really did watch his stream/listened while playing it's obviously wrong and should be banned for that kind of stupid behaviour. But if you can't proof anything then it's just probably better keep your mouth shut=) Proof is an incoherent word when used in almost any situation. At best you're going to argue against justified belief and the fact is there's reasonable justification to believe it, even if it's not indisputable proof. Sidenote: Anyone asking for indisputable proof for anything outside mathematical or logical proofs should never be taken seriously. | ||
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Hertingen
Norway13 Posts
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derpidyderp
1 Post
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riboflavin
United States226 Posts
While streaming, Tyler visited some of the various threads on this topic across TL and /r/starcraft. It didn't take long for him to quickly gather the 2 points of view. His comment was that he too had 'stream sniped' in the past like Cruncher and occasionally forgets to close it once in game (and has to tab out to do so). Without quoting directly, his view was that he didn't feel it was conclusive in terms of cheating and was clearly not surprised by the act. There was zero drama in his response. This is a good example of an outsider taking the facts for face value and not freaking out. If you have respect for how much of a level headed a guy he is, I hope that you (I suppose I am just speaking to the Idra defenders) will consider that Cruncher isn't some terrible cheat and was just trying to get a game vs Idra. It's nice to see that he isn't afraid to play him and when he does get matched, we (the viewers) all win. Cruncher doesn't seem to care about the perception people have of him, and that is kinda cool. I know another guy who is like that too... I am a fan of both guys and hope that their drama continues, it's nice when the games matter. Calling him a cheater only devalues the game for fans and really is unjustified. *I do not represent Tyler and in no way am I speaking for him. I am just rehashing a few minutes of his stream as I interpreted it. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 06 2011 16:53 Lochat wrote: Proof is an incoherent word when used in almost any situation. At best you're going to argue against justified belief and the fact is there's reasonable justification to believe it, even if it's not indisputable proof. Sidenote: Anyone asking for indisputable proof for anything outside mathematical or logical proofs should never be taken seriously. Ohh a philosophy major GL with a job. Proof is seeing him do it. He admits to it. KISS. | ||
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CrunchersFatRolls
Chad1 Post
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Crawler
Estonia248 Posts
On May 06 2011 08:03 travis wrote: well if he was actually cheating, any person viewing his stream would be able to screenshot it, right? well maybe not if it was 2nd monitor or some set up i guess. but it doesn't really matter.. it's just speculation. and odds are, as i was saying before in idra's stream, that just doesn't make any sense. this guy is a serious player.. hes playing to be a good and accomplished sc2 player. He is stream sniping players to piss them off. Then makes a troll bait post that will definetly get tons of people banned and also he has been using the most known foreign starcraft player to boost his own efame. Most of the people know cruncher only by TSL bo3 and the ladder drama. So if I throw a bag of shit at Obama during some live event then it makes me serious politician because I abused someones popularity? @cheating whine: It was pretty easy decision for Cruncher in that game (Nexus almost a minute sooner than hatch and IdrA pretty much has only 1 allin build.) so I am pretty sure that he didn't cheat. There wasn't a need for it. Also note that IdrA rarely goes for early pool(6-10) so nexus first is completly viable against him. | ||
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DeathNTaxes
United States79 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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mgl0x9
United States256 Posts
On May 06 2011 18:51 DeathNTaxes wrote: How does this guy have a fan club, hes not even good. THIS he is absolute and utter trash and he plays an OP race to win any amount of games oh and has to stream cheat L O L User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Sandro
897 Posts
On May 06 2011 18:51 DeathNTaxes wrote: How does this guy have a fan club, hes not even good. He beat IdrA one time in tournament, plenty reason enough to have a fan club thread imo | ||
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