provided by dastollepeer provided by Rasky Provided by sohighandmighty on page 288 of the idra fan club Provided by AmiPolizeiFunk TSL3 Cheerfuls + Show Spoiler +
provided by mister.bubbles Provided by Papajan By Korred
Edit: Wow, I'm the first legit poster and member besides the OP and troll on this fanclub :D Cruncher has became my fourth favorite SC2 player! CRUNCHER FIGHTING!
That was really all I saw from today's TSL matches. I saw the best part of the day fortunately. Sign me up please. I thought he could beat Idra, I knew it was a good possibility.
On March 28 2011 12:55 Ezze wrote: Has he not streamed since Jan. 23? That's the last recorded video I see on his livestream.com. Anything more recent? I need more CrunCher!!
He has streamed since then just no recordings I guess.
After he vs idra in that last match in the day4 of the TSL i laughed so hard i almost fell out of my chair. I know thats pretty BM but after the display from IdrA i think he had it coming to him. Though i do like when players support good manners in matches that are being streamed ;P
Look at the screenshot from IdrA's insults between games. IdrA is basically taunting him and insulting him. The smiley face as he stomps him was such a perfect response it gives me nerd chills all over!!!
absolutely hated playing this guy in WC3 due to him being human.. but the series vs IdrA makes me a fan. Awesome when nerdragers get a taste of their own medicine for once.
I've been a half-half fan since 09 actually, since a game I watched of him playing an epic HvN on Melting Valley where he went a very fascinating and refreshing MK solo/Hawk play which opened my eyes for him. In team games such as WC3L he always performed well and as I usually did, I cheered for the underdogs so cheering for Cruncher at that time came naturally.
I'll be interested to follow his continued progress :>
Sign me up, I like him winning with let's say basic tactics (might seem cheesy or unskilled to some) Especially I like him as I see him as a underdog of this TSL.
“I’ll use whatever it takes to win,” said Cruncher. “If that means using an ‘imbalanced’ unit then so be it. Find another game or complain to Blizzard.”
What amazing words from this guy.
This is amazing attitude over IdrA's cocky "Im approaching this as if it were a walkover"
On March 28 2011 15:46 tdt wrote: Some recent wins tell me he's way underrated and prolly #1 or #2 USA protoss:
4-1 vs PainUser 4-1 vs Sjow 4-1 vs LzGamer 4-0 vs StrifeCro 2-1 vs "Walkover" EG.IdrA. 2-0 vs oGsInca. 2-0 vs CheckPrime 2-0 vs MarineKingPrime
Hell yeah I'm a fan!
That list is so fucking sick.
Is there replays available for any of these sets? Really hard to say he was the underdog after knowing how good he is in his TSL match.
Yeah all the replays are in tournament catagory. First 4 search his name, nest one tsl, next 3 FX open thread. They all within last couple weeks, I dont have time to sift or I do it for you.
Yeah, I took that last game against IdrA in the TSL pretty hard when I saw it. IdrA's still my favortie player, and the day afterwards I thought back to MorroW v Jinro, and looked at it from that perspective: It's 35.000$ at stake, and if the opportuinty is there, you'd be an idiot not to take it. I still think it's boring to see games ended really early in due to a couple of good (ok, great) forcefields, but CrunCher has grown on me since then. I sincerely hope that IdrA, his fans and I are wrong about him being a guy with 15 minutes of fame.
On March 30 2011 02:05 diverzee wrote: Or perhaps you could join a fan club of a player who isn't famous for just one small undeserved victory vs a legend.
Perhaps you should get your info straight before posting.
I just want to say, make sure you guys are joining this fanclub because you are fans of Cruncher, not because you like seeing IdrA rage. If you don't like IdrA, w/e, but make sure you actually are a fan of Cruncher, otherwise it's almost an insult to him.
On March 30 2011 06:56 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote: i like how there are more idra pictures on the front page then crunchers more like idra hateclub if you ask me :S
On March 30 2011 06:56 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote: i like how there are more idra pictures on the front page then crunchers more like idra hateclub if you ask me :S
That is because Cruncher is a nobody...
Seriously, I'm upset about the IdrA-game too, but this is leading nowhere.
On March 30 2011 07:18 teamsolid wrote: Way too early for a fanclub, wait till he wins something big at least, or this is like Silver all over again.
Well people can still be fans of his playstyle or past games, but i agree, just beating one player in a best of 3 is pretty silly then to start a fanclub. /// and besides from most of the posts on here i would argue that this is just the idra-hateclub. @ the post above me, silver didnt really produce any results after a while and dropped from sc2.
On March 30 2011 07:18 teamsolid wrote: Way too early for a fanclub, wait till he wins something big at least, or this is like Silver all over again.
Well people can still be fans of his playstyle or past games, but i agree, just beating one player in a best of 3 is pretty silly then to start a fanclub. /// and besides from most of the posts on here i would argue that this is just the idra-hateclub. @ the post above me, silver didnt really produce any results after a while and dropped from sc2.
He has beaten more than Idra. Just the fact that Idra fanboys are here ruining this thread with their crying. He has beaten far better players than Idra such as MarineKing, Check and Inca.
Really like Cruncher's style, hope he keeps winning no matter what it takes!
I have nothing against Cruncher. I just want to say that the original post consists to a huge extent of the Cruncher - IdrA drama. This will just attract haters and discussion which can't be a good thing imo.
I don't know if Cruncher is good enough to "deserve" a fan thread (considering how Destiny's fan club got closed due to lack of importance), so I let that to the admins to decide. I just feel like this is a thread circulating around the recent events rather than the person itself, the "fan club" thread name being a mere disguise.
edit > To be precise: the "memorable quotes", "lore" and "fan art" sections are 100% IdrA material. And then the "to the haters" part contains (quote) "Walkover" EG.IdrA (unquote). That's ASKING for a battle of the fan communities.
I remember when Masq beat Idra and was the toast of the town, this will be more of the same. Cruncher is one more nobody who edged a best of 3 from his better. This fanclub is going to 100% idrA haters, and is going byebye as soon as Cruncher is outed as a nobody. Colossi//Vray pre-1.3 and a bad impression of HuK's sentry idiocy =/= skill. Hate on, haters.
Sign me up. He may not be very well known but anybody capable of both solid play, defeating many well known pros such as Kiwikaki, Sjow and MarineKingPrime and even forcefielding the Gracken to the point of IdrA Rage deserves my respect.
On March 31 2011 02:06 Clbull wrote: Sign me up. He may not be very well known but anybody capable of both solid play, defeating many well known pros such as Kiwikaki, Sjow and MarineKingPrime and even forcefielding the Gracken to the point of IdrA Rage deserves my respect.
I know right?
Solid play - turtling to death til you get an invincible deathball, which is arguably the most boring and abusive strategy a protoss can execute - CHECK Getting massively raped in game 2, thus showing how FLAWED his game is and how superior his opponent was compared to him - CHECK Realising he can't overpower his adversary and finally resorting to an early push with what's most retarded about this game - FORCEFIELDS - CHECK
As a protoss player, i was incredibly embarassed to see a fellow gamer play this way. Whatever, shit happens
I feel that Cruncher's success in the TSL was due to Idra's poor decision making which stemmed from Idra underestimating him. He is definitely a humble guy and endured a lot of bm from Idra while remaining calm and gg'ing in game 2 when he lost.
We need more players like him on NA...
Good luck to Cruncher in the TSL! I hope his hard work gets him far!
On March 31 2011 02:06 Clbull wrote: Sign me up. He may not be very well known but anybody capable of both solid play, defeating many well known pros such as Kiwikaki, Sjow and MarineKingPrime and even forcefielding the Gracken to the point of IdrA Rage deserves my respect.
I know right?
Solid play - turtling to death til you get an invincible deathball, which is arguably the most boring and abusive strategy a protoss can execute - CHECK Getting massively raped in game 2, thus showing how FLAWED his game is and how superior his opponent was compared to him - CHECK Realising he can't overpower his adversary and finally resorting to an early push with what's most retarded about this game - FORCEFIELDS - CHECK
As a protoss player, i was incredibly embarassed to see a fellow gamer play this way. Whatever, shit happens
Quality second post. It's a tournament brah, one in which they are playing for money. Strategy is strategy however you want to look at it. Not Crunchers fault that IdrA is weak against people who don't play to his expected playstyle. If everyone played the same standard boring way, then this game would be just that, boring.
On March 31 2011 02:06 Clbull wrote: Sign me up. He may not be very well known but anybody capable of both solid play, defeating many well known pros such as Kiwikaki, Sjow and MarineKingPrime and even forcefielding the Gracken to the point of IdrA Rage deserves my respect.
I know right?
Solid play - turtling to death til you get an invincible deathball, which is arguably the most boring and abusive strategy a protoss can execute - CHECK Getting massively raped in game 2, thus showing how FLAWED his game is and how superior his opponent was compared to him - CHECK Realising he can't overpower his adversary and finally resorting to an early push with what's most retarded about this game - FORCEFIELDS - CHECK
As a protoss player, i was incredibly embarassed to see a fellow gamer play this way. Whatever, shit happens
Quality second post. It's a tournament brah, one in which they are playing for money. Strategy is strategy however you want to look at it. Not Crunchers fault that IdrA is weak against people who don't play to his expected playstyle. If everyone played the same standard boring way, then this game would be just that, boring.
You vastly misunderstood my point.
I agree that every strategy is viable when it comes to a tournament with monetary gain up the line. I'm suprised a whole fanclub was erected on CrunCher's performance, and said performance was actually poor. He defeated a very strong opponent using very strong (let's not get delusional, it is beyond "very" strong) builds, and IdrA surely expected what CrunCher showed us last weekend as build possibilities. When it comes to different ways to play, to being creative, protoss favorably comes first, but if you, as a player, can only demonstrate standard ways to play(yea well what the eff? How was CrunCher's style of play not the "same standard boring way"?), then you've not shown anything impressive and, in this case, are getting way more recognition for something you've realised by bullshitting your way through the tournament.
On March 28 2011 12:46 ClockToweR wrote: His eyes in that picture.... they are staring into my soul!! Sign me up BTW. Anyone who makes idra rage (read: everyone) im a fan of
He is not even looking at you...
4-1 vs PainUser 4-1 vs Sjow 4-1 vs LzGamer 4-0 vs StrifeCro 2-1 vs EG.IdrA. 2-0 vs oGsInca. 2-0 vs CheckPrime 2-0 vs MarineKingPrime
These games are just flawfests.
Good job making this thread a idra-hate club rather than CrunCher fanclub. This thread was created after he beat IdrA which is just.. roflmfao. I don't like idra haters, I despise people who hide it.
Good job making this thread a idra-hate club rather than CrunCher fanclub. This thread was created after he beat IdrA which is just.. roflmfao. I don't like idra haters, I despise people who hide it.
Cruncher is a new guy on the scene, he had not done that much before those showmathes/FXO and TSLs first round. After he made it to ro16 as a huge underdog (not an underdog skillwise, but rather popularity wise, votes were vastly in idras favor) when lots of great players could NOT make it into ro16 people opened up their eyes for Cruncher more.
Hint: Players are appreciated after reaching out more and more to the public.
Did you know that adelscott also received his fanclub after beating MVP? Why aren't you in his thread saying "Lawl at u guys, this is just an MVP-hate thread!!" ?
On March 31 2011 04:06 Hypemeup wrote: Are IdrA fanboys really this stupid? A guy just got banned 5 post above of you for hating in a fanclub and you go and do the same thing?
Just let them... Some people only learn one way...
Awesome results/games Cruncher :-) good luck against Mondragon.
On March 31 2011 02:06 Clbull wrote: Sign me up. He may not be very well known but anybody capable of both solid play, defeating many well known pros such as Kiwikaki, Sjow and MarineKingPrime and even forcefielding the Gracken to the point of IdrA Rage deserves my respect.
I know right?
Solid play - turtling to death til you get an invincible deathball, which is arguably the most boring and abusive strategy a protoss can execute - CHECK Getting massively raped in game 2, thus showing how FLAWED his game is and how superior his opponent was compared to him - CHECK Realising he can't overpower his adversary and finally resorting to an early push with what's most retarded about this game - FORCEFIELDS - CHECK
As a protoss player, i was incredibly embarassed to see a fellow gamer play this way. Whatever, shit happens
User was temp banned for this post.
I know, how dare this guy use viable tactics and whatever it takes to win, whether that is a long macro game, cheese or other things.
Solid play - turtling to death til you get an invincible deathball, which is arguably the most boring and abusive strategy a protoss can execute - CHECK
IdrA's play in game 1 was flawed. He attacked far too late and pretty much let CrunCher get his Protoss ball of death constructed, and furthermore let him ignite it into something almost truly indestructible..
Getting massively raped in game 2, thus showing how FLAWED his game is and how superior his opponent was compared to him - CHECK
How many Zerg players do you see in reality use drops to the extent IdrA did in game 2? Not many because of the research costs in terms of both minerals, time and vespene gas required to research both Overlord speed and the ability to transport units via Overlord as upgrades.
The same goes for Protoss. Why would they want to pump out some expensive Warp Prisms when they could pump out an Observer, Immortal or Collossus at this time instead and bolster their forces up?
In fact, the only build that really uses drops the way they were meant to be used are Terran Bio builds. This is because the Medivac is usually the best unit to support a Stimpack-fuelled drop of marines and marauders.
CrunCher got caught off guard by something truly unexpected and if I recall, IdrA was really on the offensive in that game, something which he is not known for at all. This doesn't necessarily mean that his game is flawed.
So what? Shit happens, he lost a game in a Bo3 against IdrA. It doesn't take away the fact that he is worthy of being a professional gamer that could be a force to be reckoned with in both later rounds of the TSL3, the NASL and any future tournaments he enters.
Realising he can't overpower his adversary and finally resorting to an early push with what's most retarded about this game - FORCEFIELDS - CHECK
1) IdrA knew there was an army approaching when a unit of his got killed between the two bases What did he decide to do with his large amount of outstanding larvae in response to this?
DRONE THE HELL UP!!
2) It's not THAT easy to wall off Roaches via Forcefields.
3) IdrA could have come out of that battle better than he did, had he spread his roaches to form a more effective concave around his opponent. It was the fact that many of them were clumped into one spot that resulted in the Gracken being surrounded and outranged.
4) Most retarded about this game? If you ask me, when players get denied by forcefields, they were pretty much asking for it in most situations by not doing a spread of their army, or attacking from several fronts. You know? A certain viable military tactic known as flanking
By the way, I can see a massive amount of flaws with your arguments that CrunCher sucks.
For one, you're basing his gameplay purely on his performance against IdrA which I would say is far from him playing at his best. He also won one of the TL Opens to secure his spot in the tournament, and he has also won victories against notable pros such as MarineKingPrime, Sjow, Kiwikaki, Fenix etc. And his performance in the TL Open proves that he is not just all about stilton.
On March 31 2011 04:06 Hypemeup wrote: Are IdrA fanboys really this stupid? A guy just got banned 5 post above of you for hating in a fanclub and you go and do the same thing?
Just let them... Some people only learn one way...
Awesome results/games Cruncher :-) good luck against Mondragon.
Did you know that adelscott also received his fanclub after beating MVP? Why aren't you in his thread saying "Lawl at u guys, this is just an MVP-hate thread!!" ?
Get a clue.[/QUOTE]
Because if you look at the Adelscott fanclub thread you can clearly see there is 0 hate towards his opponent. Unlike this thread.
I really hope CrunCher picks up his game and get to the top level tho. Kinda tired of those mondaine nice guy personalities. CrunCher MC and IdrA interviews are the best.
Sign me up! CrunCher is def illy off the manilly yo!
ps. idra if you read this, im new to sc and dont give a fuck what youve done in the past for this game. with that said, you are a tiny little bitch and will never be considered an accomplished person in this life you live. have some respect and sportsmanship rather than little man syndrome.
It's pretty sad how many people are bashing Cruncher in his FANclub, not HATEclub. That said, I came here because I wanted to know a bit more about Cruncher, his playstyle etc but almost everything I see is about IdrA :/ Try to take your fanclub serious and praise your idol instead of bashing a random player no one really cares about.
On March 31 2011 10:54 Nothingtosay wrote: Idra haters/Lovers Ruining my thread yo.... I don't want to not add the fan content to the OP but all i'm getting is this idra stuff.
Thats probably becayse 90% of this thread is in some way related to IdrA. Make it about Cruncher achievements as a player, not just beating IdrA in a bo3. (Which btw, afterwords, Cruncher lost 1-2 to IdrA in the Justin TV, so I mean...) This is an IdrA hate club, plain and simple. Be fair to Cruncher and make it about him, not IdrA
well given that he became popular after beating idra its kinda inevitable, im sure he will get fans for him rather than idra losing after MLG and other such events
I watch cruncher absolutely crush an entire tournament worth of people in a team liquid open and it = no fans. He wins one game against idrA and you have 8 pages. That being said I saw much better play in the TLOpen than against idrA and I think he might deserve the hate a little bit. Those forcefields were retarded
I really hope CrunCher steps his game up and starts competing at the high levels. When he gave the interview after beating IdrA, you could smell the ego-ness trough every crack of each question :D I have kinda love-hate thing for him right now. I really wanna see someone else with an attitude ripping their way to the top.
CrunCher's out of the lower round 6,a nd the tournament, I think. Like I said before, I seriously hope that the IdrA-game isn't going to be his only time in the spotlight.
When I first read his name I didn't know that the "coL" stood for a clan, so I assumed it was short for Colonel. "Oh, sure," I thought, "sounds like a breakfast cereal mascot or something. Makes sense."
So to this day I always think of him as Colonel Cruncher.
On April 18 2011 05:36 Mataza wrote: TSL games against Mondragon just make me speechless.
Yeah, I'm impressed, the zerg is all over the map but he stays calm and simply moves from base to base and then moves to the zerg base and wins! WOW, I would have lost for sure. Sarcasm? Maybe....
Imho Cruncher is only a symptom of the imbalance of protoss. You can only play abusively when there is something to abuse. And there is a lot to abuse about Protoss....
On April 18 2011 05:36 Mataza wrote: TSL games against Mondragon just make me speechless.
Yeah, I'm impressed, the zerg is all over the map but he stays calm and simply moves from base to base and then moves to the zerg base and wins! WOW, I would have lost for sure. Sarcasm? Maybe....
On April 18 2011 05:52 Mataza wrote: Imho Cruncher is only a symptom of the imbalance of protoss. You can only play abusively when there is something to abuse. And there is a lot to abuse about Protoss....
Agreed. Mondragon was all over the map game 2 shutting down expos, and cruncher just A-moves for the win.
Edit:
Really that comment doesn't have much to do with Cruncher, more about protoss as a race.
LMFAO at all the Cruncher hate, Mondragon played poorly in many of the games. Pulling that many drones to counter a cannon rush? Massing mutas when you see the toss has that many phoenixes on the field? Zerg players can qq about imba all the want but Cruncher defended well and kept several of his units alive and upgraded throughout the game, even in Game 2 I think Mondragon played very well but he was overly aggressive, sacrificing too many units to take out expos. They are both good players and both made their mistakes, but Cruncher came out on top this time. Can we get mods to clean up this thread
I'm usually don't talk about balance, like at all, but I need to post here to tell you that Mondragon completely outplayed you and to be honest I don't think you deserved winning this series. We'll see how you do against Naniwa though.
On April 18 2011 06:04 SilverWolfe wrote: LMFAO at all the Cruncher hate, Mondragon played poorly in many of the games. Pulling that many drones to counter a cannon rush? Massing mutas when you see the toss has that many phoenixes on the field? Zerg players can qq about imba all the want but Cruncher defended well and kept several of his units alive and upgraded throughout the game, even in Game 2 I think Mondragon played very well but he was overly aggressive, sacrificing too many units to take out expos. They are both good players and both made their mistakes, but Cruncher came out on top this time. Can we get mods to clean up this thread
Do you really think its okay to not harass or do a single thing outside of getting to three bases until the 24 minute mark? 5 pheonixes being on the field also doesn't mean you can no longer go mutas, just look at how much damage they still did to cruncher's base whenever he moved out. I have no problem admitting Cruncher played pretty damn well in game 4 (because really, he handled mutas and had good storms etc.) and the cannon rush was very ballsy, but I just can't agree that game 2 was an example of cruncher outplaying him or anything even close to that.
On April 18 2011 06:04 SilverWolfe wrote: LMFAO at all the Cruncher hate, Mondragon played poorly in many of the games. Pulling that many drones to counter a cannon rush? Massing mutas when you see the toss has that many phoenixes on the field? Zerg players can qq about imba all the want but Cruncher defended well and kept several of his units alive and upgraded throughout the game, even in Game 2 I think Mondragon played very well but he was overly aggressive, sacrificing too many units to take out expos. They are both good players and both made their mistakes, but Cruncher came out on top this time. Can we get mods to clean up this thread
Do you really think its okay to not harass or do a single thing outside of getting to three bases until the 24 minute mark? 5 pheonixes being on the field also doesn't mean you can no longer go mutas, just look at how much damage they still did to cruncher's base whenever he moved out. I have no problem admitting Cruncher played pretty damn well in game 4 (because really, he handled mutas and had good storms etc.) and the cannon rush was very ballsy, but I just can't agree that game 2 was an example of cruncher outplaying him or anything even close to that.
I definitely agree with you here. Mondragon played pretty badly for the better part of game 4 and played brilliantly too late. Props to Cruncher for this win, he showed some really great games today!
Just to say this, as information from the FanClub of Mondi indicate, he wasnt aware of how good Infestors are now against a toss...so thats why he didnt use them...and, oh, still he managed to play sooo good only with lair tech...its sad he lost, really... well, Cruncher, good luck agains NaNi...
On April 18 2011 06:39 Lambertus wrote: Just to say this, as information from the FanClub of Mondi indicate, he wasnt aware of how good Infestors are now against a toss...so thats why he didnt use them...and, oh, still he managed to play sooo good only with lair tech...its sad he lost, really... well, Cruncher, good luck agains NaNi...
Really is a shame, 3 or 4 fungals at any point in that last game could've made it look pretty different ;/
I really don't like how he plays. I think kiwikaki is a way better protoss than cruncher because cruncher always seems to do some type of voidray cheese.
On April 18 2011 06:39 Lambertus wrote: Just to say this, as information from the FanClub of Mondi indicate, he wasnt aware of how good Infestors are now against a toss...so thats why he didnt use them...and, oh, still he managed to play sooo good only with lair tech...its sad he lost, really... well, Cruncher, good luck agains NaNi...
Really is a shame, 3 or 4 fungals at any point in that last game could've made it look pretty different ;/
It's Cruncher fanclub, not other way around. Personally, I find his play in the fourth set admirable, especially after his convincing lose in the first game
On April 18 2011 06:54 Crazysane wrote: I really don't like how he plays. I think kiwikaki is a way better protoss than cruncher because cruncher always seems to do some type of voidray cheese.
I'm not the biggest cruncher fan, but what voidray cheese are you talking about?
Building voidrays is cheese? Is there stalker cheese? Roach cheese? Marine cheese? etc etc etc.
The most one dimentional player i have ever seen taken part in such a big event as a TSL. I think it was a discrace that he could win Mondragon and god only knows why people would be fans of a player that has more holes in hes game play that swiss cheese. Just for making Idra rage ill join it tho
He does seem like a fairly 1 dimensional player. I think he might do ok for a short time now but he will soon be "solved" and fall back into obscurity. Mondragon showed how to beat him today but just wasn't himself in games 3 or 4 and lost to the map in game 2 imo.
On April 18 2011 07:29 TrANCE, wrote: The most one dimentional player i have ever seen taken part in such a big event as a TSL. I think it was a discrace that he could win Mondragon and god only knows why people would be fans of a player that has more holes in hes game play that swiss cheese. Just for making Idra rage ill join it tho
On April 19 2011 22:33 Nothingtosay wrote: If Cruncher beats Nani trolls will say "ITS PVP LOL" If Nani beats Cruncher trolls will say "SEE I KNEW HE WAS BAD"
But these two scenarios are logical for someone who thinks that Nani is better than Cruncher and don't contradict themselves at all?
If your premise is that Nani is better than Cruncher, this is the normal reaction to both events.
On April 19 2011 22:33 Nothingtosay wrote: If Cruncher beats Nani trolls will say "ITS PVP LOL" If Nani beats Cruncher trolls will say "SEE I KNEW HE WAS BAD"
But these two scenarios are logical for someone who thinks that Nani is better than Cruncher and don't contradict themselves at all?
If your premise is that Nani is better than Cruncher, this is the normal reaction to both events.
No it's not. I think Naniwa is better and will win it, but I don't think that Cruncher is bad, he is just worse than Nani (like every other non-korean protoss nowadays) .
I agree, but it undoubtedly gained him some fans/notoriety and there's nothing else I'm aware of to put in the "lore" section (it's not like those were created for this thread, they were taken from other threads). I'll admit the comic seems a little out of place since it doesn't reference Cruncher at all.
(Predicting Naniwa 3-1, but rooting for Cruncher. He has beaten Kiwikaki and Inca so it's not impossible)
Sorry to break the bad news but Naniwa isn't gonna lose a single game to CrunCher. PvP is very mechanical and its gonna be a transformer vs a screwdriver.
On April 20 2011 13:59 frucisky wrote: Well said by Tyler on Mondragon vs Cruncher. More props to amazing defense by Cruncher.
He did give him props for his good defence but still acknowledged that he got outplayed. It was interesting to see Tylers PoV
He didn't acknowledge that Cruncher got "outplayed" overall, he said something like you can outplay someone, but then lose because of one mistake (i.e. you were outplaying them before the mistake but not after).
That whole segment was so ridiculous. I can't believe how many people are saying Mondragon outplayed Cruncher in game 2 when Mondragon sacrificed about 45 roaches to do almost no damage until he finally got those nexus snipes late in the game (by then it was too late). It was a classic rope-a-dope situation: people think the aggressive guy is winning, while he's actually not doing nearly enough damage to make up for his expenditure... and then he simply gets knocked out. I challenge anyone who disagrees to re-watch the game and pay careful attention to how each attack works out for Mondragon. Much of it will look something like "kill destructable rocks - lose 5 roaches", "kill forge - lose 7 roaches", "kill 2 cannons and a pylon - lose 10 roaches & 2 overlords".
On April 20 2011 13:59 frucisky wrote: Well said by Tyler on Mondragon vs Cruncher. More props to amazing defense by Cruncher.
He did give him props for his good defence but still acknowledged that he got outplayed. It was interesting to see Tylers PoV
He didn't acknowledge that Cruncher got "outplayed" overall, he said something like you can outplay someone, but then lose because of one mistake (i.e. you were outplaying them before the mistake but not after).
That whole segment was so ridiculous. I can't believe how many people are saying Mondragon outplayed Cruncher in game 2 when Mondragon sacrificed about 45 roaches to do almost no damage until he finally got those nexus snipes late in the game (by then it was too late). It was a classic rope-a-dope situation: people think the aggressive guy is winning, while he's actually not doing nearly enough damage to make up for his expenditure... and then he simply gets knocked out. I challenge anyone who disagrees to re-watch the game and pay careful attention to how each attack works out for Mondragon. Much of it will look something like "kill destructable rocks - lose 5 roaches", "kill forge - lose 7 roaches", "kill 2 cannons and a pylon - lose 10 roaches & 2 overlords".
Wow, this is so full of bias I don't even know what to say. I saw the games, let me tell you what you saw, and what actually happened.
Much of it will look something like "kill destructable rocks - lose 5 roaches", "kill forge - lose 7 roaches"
What actually happened was that Mondragon distracted Cruncher by attacking the backdoor rocks so that his army would be displaced. Then Mondragon attacks with a more sizable roach army to break the front wall while the main air army of Cruncher is all the way on the other side of the map killing 5 roaches. Mondragon snipes a forge before the upgrade is complete. Don't take my word for it, the commentators acknowledge it too. It was smart, and clearly more then Cruncher could handle to stop. (hint: outplayed)
The reason why people are on the "he got outplayed" boat is because Cruncher didn't do anything out of the ordinary (herp derp deathball) while Mondragon was all over the place. The "outplayed" part came by virtue of comparing two people, one who clearly showed that he worked harder then the other player. Outplaying someone doesn't necessarily mean beating someone (as we can see from this example), it just means demonstrating more talent and skill. In the end, even Mondragon realized after the matches that he lost because he didn't tech infestors. That doesn't change the fact that he didn't outplay Cruncher, he just wasn't aware of how good infestors really are.
Some people argue that Cruncher "defended well" but I don't even agree that Cruncher defended well at all. Defending is supposed to be easier then attacking in the first place due to defender's advantage. It's so stupid when people argue "His drops were shit, he didn't kill enough" because you could easily say "Cruncher's defense was so shit, he shouldn't have lost anything". With defender's advantage, why couldn't we expect Cruncher to not lose a Nexus from all that harass if he defense was "so good?". Again, flawed argument.
The old version Shakuras Plateau makes defending 3 bases for protoss very easy, because all entrances are very narrow.
The way Mondragon played in game 2 would have killed Cruncher on any other map in the mappool. Watch game 1 again. Terminus Re is a map where you can defend 3 bases with 1 choke pretty easily and it was even the version without the rockblocked entrance to the third. Both played pretty much the exact same as game 2 but Mondragon won that pretty safely. Now what does that tell you about Shakuras Plateau? There was no way to kill the cannons at the backdoor in any acceptable way. Natural has a very small choke which when walled off with cannons behind is very hard to break, too. Also there is no air space behind any of that bases.
That is partly why Blizzard changed the map. The other reasons are related to the backdoor expansion, too.
Anyway props to cruncher for taking game 3 and 4. I may not like the way he did win, but he did and it would still have worked on other maps.
On April 21 2011 09:04 Jojo131 wrote: Wow, this is so full of bias I don't even know what to say. I saw the games, let me tell you what you saw, and what actually happened.
Much of it will look something like "kill destructable rocks - lose 5 roaches", "kill forge - lose 7 roaches"
What actually happened was that Mondragon distracted Cruncher by attacking the backdoor rocks so that his army would be displaced. Then Mondragon attacks with a more sizable roach army to break the front wall while the main air army of Cruncher is all the way on the other side of the map killing 5 roaches. Mondragon snipes a forge before the upgrade is complete. Don't take my word for it, the commentators acknowledge it too. It was smart, and clearly more then Cruncher could handle to stop. (hint: outplayed)
That doesn't contradict anything I said. Yes, preventing the upgrade was also nice. It simply wasn't worth all the units he lost to pull it off in my opinion. Don't forget all the units he lost after this as well. Engaging in disadvantageous trades isn't "outplaying". Appealing to the commentators is a poor argument -- commentators don't always get things right.
The reason why people are on the "he got outplayed" boat is because Cruncher didn't do anything out of the ordinary (herp derp deathball) while Mondragon was all over the place. The "outplayed" part came by virtue of comparing two people, one who clearly showed that he worked harder then the other player. Outplaying someone doesn't necessarily mean beating someone (as we can see from this example), it just means demonstrating more talent and skill.
Being "all over the place" and playing "out of the ordinary" doesn't mean you're playing better. It sounds like you just assume having a flashier style makes you the better player. I have a hard time taking your arguments seriously at this point, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
In the end, even Mondragon realized after the matches that he lost because he didn't tech infestors. That doesn't change the fact that he didn't outplay Cruncher, he just wasn't aware of how good infestors really are.
Part of playing well is making good tech decisions and knowing what units are effective in what situations.... This is almost as nonsensical as saying "Player X outplayed Player Y, he just lost because he had terrible micro".
Some people argue that Cruncher "defended well" but I don't even agree that Cruncher defended well at all. Defending is supposed to be easier then attacking in the first place due to defender's advantage. It's so stupid when people argue "His drops were shit, he didn't kill enough" because you could easily say "Cruncher's defense was so shit, he shouldn't have lost anything". With defender's advantage, why couldn't we expect Cruncher to not lose a Nexus from all that harass if he defense was "so good?". Again, flawed argument.
The attacks hurt the attacker more than the defender, that's all that matters. The bolded portion above is almost too silly to respond to.
Man I love this guy. Say what you will about him but I think he's a really fun Protoss to watch. I can't wait to see him try to upset Naniwa tomorrow. Count me in.
On April 25 2011 04:32 Mitchlew wrote: Even if cruncher won the whiners would still whine. Naniwa wins - "skill" if cruncher wins - "PvP is broke"
Someone who can take 2 games off Naniwa in a BO 5 isn't "bad"
Not aggreeing with anyone that cruncher is bad, but his 2 game wins did come of BO wins (i.e He blind countered Naniwa which can make a bad playe beat a good player in pvp) and his Micro is deff. not "stellar" by any means, but both him and naniwa did provide some pretty good games today. We'll see how cruncher does in NASL now.
I'm not a fan, but there is definitely to much hate for him going on. He plays pretty solid, good mechanics (not the best, but something he can work on), good decisionmaking, far superior intelligence to Idra and definitely a player to watch in the future.
On April 25 2011 04:32 Mitchlew wrote: Even if cruncher won the whiners would still whine. Naniwa wins - "skill" if cruncher wins - "PvP is broke"
Someone who can take 2 games off Naniwa in a BO 5 isn't "bad"
Not aggreeing with anyone that cruncher is bad, but his 2 game wins did come of BO wins (i.e He blind countered Naniwa which can make a bad playe beat a good player in pvp) and his Micro is deff. not "stellar" by any means, but both him and naniwa did provide some pretty good games today. We'll see how cruncher does in NASL now.
this is just so dumb... seriously do you even know how the game works the entire point is to use a build order that will work vs your opponent's build order. it was no more "blind" than in any matchup any game ever where u don't get to scout absolutely everything.
it was actually less blind than what happens in most games given that nani took his gas he had a good idea what naniwa's options were at that point
and also game 4 wasn't even a win based on build orders lol. naniwa made a mistake not to finish him with a 4gate and cruncher intelligently capitalized on it by taking advantage of naniwa trying to expand quickly
it's so annoying reading these clueless posts over and over and worst of all in the losing players fanclub completely taking away from his 2 wins
cruncher you're an awesome player ignore the idiots they don't know anything
cruncher has posted great results again and again and again and again
and biased people just love to ignore empirical evidence again and again and again and again
you know, i'd be a lot nicer about how i posted this if it wasn't for the fact that you come into HIS fanclub right after he LOSES and post this absolute nonsense
Well at least this fan club proves how pathetic a lot of people are on the internet and will go to any means to have their opinion heard on why they think someone is bad even though they themselves have jack shit for accomplishments and probably never will
Cruncher played a good series against Naniwa today. It was much closer than most people anticipated/predicted.
Yeah, so many 'clever' people. -_-
I must say that today's match was certainly the most entertaining PvP series I've ever watched. Thanks for that Cruncher, you certainly have impressed me today.
Cruncher's micro in game 4 when defending that 4gate was amazing. It gave me chills the way whitera did against MC. I was completely baffled by how he held that. Based on his performance today, and how close it was against an amazing micro toss like naniwa I'd put my money on him in a pvp against everyone but a handful of P's out there (MC, whitera, naniwa) and even against those it'd be super close.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to Cruncher after people start saying PvZ is "balanced". At the moment he's getting a lot of hate for abusing Protoss, but maybe all of those people are wrong? We'll have to see
Have some respect for God's sake... This is a Fan club page. Save your hate for somebody who's actually bad mannered. You know, people who don't gg, for example.
On April 25 2011 04:38 Moonling wrote: Not aggreeing with anyone that cruncher is bad, but his 2 game wins did come of BO wins (i.e He blind countered Naniwa which can make a bad playe beat a good player in pvp) and his Micro is deff. not "stellar" by any means, but both him and naniwa did provide some pretty good games today. We'll see how cruncher does in NASL now.
lol I love it when people try to be subtle with their trolling in an attempt to appear objective. You'd look smarter if you just resorted to fat jokes like the other trolls TBH.
In fact, in game 2, Artosis and DJWheat kind of dropped the ball. Cruncher's build wasn't a blind counter at all. Cruncher most certainly prepared this build in response to Naniwa's patented gas steal + ramp block with buildings + colossus rush build. He pulled the exact same build twice against Kiwikaki at MSL if I remember correctly. This is definitively where Cruncher impressed me the most, even though Naniwa deserved the win overall.
Well played cruncher! Nani is a beast and he came close to winning a bo5 vrs him. First game was a very bad decision though, if there is one player who owns cheese it is Nani. To me this series was much more impressive than beating Idra. Keep it up in the future.
Yea, I wasn't convinced after his series with IdrA, and after the first game I was gonna jump the ball and call him a scrub; however he played some great 4 games afterward. Definitely got respect for this kid; maybe if he didn't attempt a proxy that first game he could have won the series (I mean proxying naniwa... gl with that!) Definitely a fan now
Wow so much hate toward Cruncher I really don't get it ... You may not like him but what's the point of coming in his fan club and BMing him ? GL Cruncher don't listen to the noobs haters
haha cruncher didnt gg when idrA wiped the floor with him infact 1 game he deliberatly dc'd from what i heard soo maybee cruncher does deserve some of the hate for being a hypocrite
On April 27 2011 11:53 Iro wrote: haha cruncher didnt gg when idrA wiped the floor with him infact 1 game he deliberatly dc'd from what i heard soo maybee cruncher does deserve some of the hate for being a hypocrite
You are such a moron. People like you are turning me into a Cruncher fan even though I play zerg and hate toss >.<
You have to like Cruncher after seeing the idiots he has to put up with.
@Iro You seem like a very smart and educated person from ur comments above... Why dont u go back to that hole u came out of and continue fapping on Idra and Destiny like u do on daily bases.
Some strong words from Artosis. This is the same guy who was defending MC's proxy gates because "you play to win" something he's said while casting the GSL many times.
We like you artosis but theres no need to take shots at cruncher.
Some strong words from Artosis. This is the same guy who was defending MC's proxy gates because "you play to win" something he's said while casting the GSL many times.
We like you artosis but theres no need to take shots at cruncher.
Some strong words from Artosis. This is the same guy who was defending MC's proxy gates because "you play to win" something he's said while casting the GSL many times.
We like you artosis but theres no need to take shots at cruncher.
You gonna deny its true ? Oh well
Also, I think it's quite clear that MC is proven to be good, where Cruncher has not. So i think mc is allowed to do some risky builds when he pleases.
Some strong words from Artosis. This is the same guy who was defending MC's proxy gates because "you play to win" something he's said while casting the GSL many times.
We like you artosis but theres no need to take shots at cruncher.
I'm pretty sure he would also defend Cruncher if he was casting him and Cruncher would just wait for his deathball and a-move if that would win him the game. That doesn't mean he has to like that style (or that player). It's also not comparable to MCs proxy gates because he doesn't use them every other game, while Cruncher does only interrupt his 3base deathball push if he sees an opportunity for a 6gate. €dit: Sorry for talking down Cruncher in his Fanclub, didn't mean to be rude. But Fanclub or not, there's no place to hate on Artosis!
So ridiculous from Artosis. Just trying to fnd excuses for not winning shit with the race he perceived as OP before playing it. Now playing on 2 or 3 bases is somehow a lame and op strat?
Also Artosis tried the exact "lame" stuff in his NASL games, only that he failed at placing force fields and controlling colossus or focussing corruptor with stalker. He was working hard on showing that protoss is not that OP if your play sucks. Guess losing is now called "doing interesting strats".
And then he has the nerves to call out a player who is tons better than him.
On April 28 2011 21:27 Redox wrote: So ridiculous from Artosis. Just trying to fnd excuses for not winning shit with the race he perceived as OP before playing it. Now playing on 2 or 3 bases is somehow a lame and op strat?
Also Artosis tried the exact "lame" stuff in his NASL games, only that he failed at placing force fields and controlling colossus or focussing corruptor with stalker. He was working hard on showing that protoss is not that OP if your play sucks. Guess losing is now called "doing interesting strats".
And then he has the nerves to call out a player who is tons better than him.
There's a true core to what Artosis said, but I won't join the balance whining that has grown pretty popular in this thread. What you said is true after all, Artosis should know better than talking smack like this. Makes me kind of sad, I always had great respect for him.
On April 28 2011 21:27 Redox wrote: So ridiculous from Artosis. Just trying to fnd excuses for not winning shit with the race he perceived as OP before playing it. Now playing on 2 or 3 bases is somehow a lame and op strat?
Also Artosis tried the exact "lame" stuff in his NASL games, only that he failed at placing force fields and controlling colossus or focussing corruptor with stalker. He was working hard on showing that protoss is not that OP if your play sucks. Guess losing is now called "doing interesting strats".
And then he has the nerves to call out a player who is tons better than him.
There's a true core to what Artosis said, but I won't join the balance whining that has grown pretty popular in this thread. What you said is true after all, Artosis should know better than talking smack like this. Makes me kind of sad, I always had great respect for him.
Upon reading again what i wrote I think its worded somewhat too harsh. I guess Artosis was just raging somewhat because of his losses. Happens to everyone. Still shouldnt it let out on better players.
You're also conveniently leaving out the part where he was addressing that to all the people trying to troll him in his stream. Quit trying to start drama where there isn't any.
On April 29 2011 04:29 Loki57 wrote: You're also conveniently leaving out the part where he was addressing that to all the people trying to troll him in his stream. Quit trying to start drama where there isn't any.
How did I leave that out? if you can read that's obvious. Anyway that's beside the point that he chose to involve cruncher I'm not creating drama where there isn't any.
On April 29 2011 04:29 Loki57 wrote: You're also conveniently leaving out the part where he was addressing that to all the people trying to troll him in his stream. Quit trying to start drama where there isn't any.
How did I leave that out? if you can read that's obvious. Anyway that's beside the point that he chose to involve cruncher I'm not creating drama where there isn't any.
By... Not mentioning it? Lol. Where at any point here have you said he was addressing the trolls in his stream and that he was joking around in general? Like I said you're just trying to stir shit up when it really isn't necessary at all.
Lets all listen to artosis. This is the same guy that gave naniwa a whole heap for being bad, now look at naniwa, favourite to win the TSL 3. Now back to artosis, making calls about how OP a race is against Z and how easy you can beat a Z he then loses twice in a row in extremely convincing fashion to two zergs. It is clear here artosis is just upset that he is clearly not as good as he thinks he is at this game. No GM for artosis is there.
On April 29 2011 11:58 Mitchlew wrote: Lets all listen to artosis. This is the same guy that gave naniwa a whole heap for being bad, now look at naniwa, favourite to win the TSL 3. Now back to artosis, making calls about how OP a race is against Z and how easy you can beat a Z he then loses twice in a row in extremely convincing fashion to two zergs. It is clear here artosis is just upset that he is clearly not as good as he thinks he is at this game. No GM for artosis is there.
1. I thought this thread was about Cruncher?
2. Naniwa used to warp gate all in all the time, Artosis admitted he was wrong and said he was really good now.
3. Artosis losing PvZ is a horrible example of PvZ being balanced, Artosis switched to Protoss only a few months ago
4. Artosis is good you clown, he would be a lot better if he had played Protoss from the start in SC2 AND if he didn't have to work at GOM and could devote all his time to playing.
5. As for people saying Cruncher > Artosis, we'll see where they are in say three months yes?
On April 29 2011 11:58 Mitchlew wrote: Lets all listen to artosis. This is the same guy that gave naniwa a whole heap for being bad, now look at naniwa, favourite to win the TSL 3. Now back to artosis, making calls about how OP a race is against Z and how easy you can beat a Z he then loses twice in a row in extremely convincing fashion to two zergs. It is clear here artosis is just upset that he is clearly not as good as he thinks he is at this game. No GM for artosis is there.
1. I thought this thread was about Cruncher?
2. Naniwa used to warp gate all in all the time, Artosis admitted he was wrong and said he was really good now.
3. Artosis losing PvZ is a horrible example of PvZ being balanced, Artosis switched to Protoss only a few months ago
4. Artosis is good you clown, he would be a lot better if he had played Protoss from the start in SC2 AND if he didn't have to work at GOM and could devote all his time to playing.
5. As for people saying Cruncher > Artosis, we'll see where they are in say three months yes?
1. This thread was created and gets responded too entirely because of other players =P
On April 29 2011 12:51 JediGamer wrote: Considering that CrunCher plays about 11-13 hours a day don't expect Artosis to even come close.
I don't play anywhere near 11 hours a day...maybe 11 hours a week. Only time I practice is when I stream (expect for like TSL). And yes, I am in college.
And guys, can we please stop bringing up other people...I don't care if X says Y about this situation, leave it to other threads, and please let people who support me in tourneys and so forth post in this thread in peace.
On April 29 2011 12:51 JediGamer wrote: Considering that CrunCher plays about 11-13 hours a day don't expect Artosis to even come close.
I don't play anywhere near 11 hours a day...maybe 11 hours a week. Only time I practice is when I stream (expect for like TSL). And yes, I am in college.
What are you studying and gl in the rest of your tournies.
Cruncher is just shameless. He got caught today sneaking into Idra's stream while they were playing each other on ladder. He forgot to log-in to justin.tv with a ghost account, and accidentally used his real account instead.
Makes me wonder how many times he has done this against other high profile streamers.
On May 06 2011 06:43 dunc wrote: It's a fanclub, not a club for Idra fanboys to come in and hate. I agree what he did is stupid but no need to start flamewars.
It's unprofessional for a 'pro gamer'. Just sayin'.
On May 06 2011 06:43 dunc wrote: It's a fanclub, not a club for Idra fanboys to come in and hate. I agree what he did is stupid but no need to start flamewars.
What do you mean flamewars? He got caught Streamwatching Idra it's not as if he should not take flak for it.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
On May 06 2011 06:55 travis wrote: just keep it out of this thread you guys, it's already being discussed in both the idra fan club and the idra stream thread, so go there
Just gonna quote this before a shitstorm breaks loose. Take it somewhere else. Flaming him here is not the way to go.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
i am sooo glad to have my suspicions that you wouldn't do something that retarded be confirmed
it's hard to be civil when you're talking about some guy who has the clear intention of just being a dick. like, he knows a lot of fanboys dislike him for trolling idra, but the fact that he continuously does shit like this is laaaaaame
like, not just for idra fans, but the pro players being dicks to one another publicly doesnt make for a good image.
Since when did having sound muted mean he wasn't streamhacking? you dont need sound to see hes going roach and it only takes like 1-2 seconds of tabbing to confirm it ;/ whatever, whats done is done
On May 06 2011 07:57 Maliris wrote: Since when did having sound muted mean he wasn't streamhacking? you dont need sound to see hes going roach and it only takes like 1-2 seconds of tabbing to confirm it ;/ whatever, whats done is done
well if he was actually cheating, any person viewing his stream would be able to screenshot it, right? well maybe not if it was 2nd monitor or some set up i guess.
but it doesn't really matter.. it's just speculation. and odds are, as i was saying before in idra's stream, that just doesn't make any sense.
this guy is a serious player.. hes playing to be a good and accomplished sc2 player.
Don't read this the wrong way but I find he's kinda like Flash in that some people hate him because of long, turtley games and others hate him for his fast, bs cheeses. But I think more total people hate him than people who hate Flash.
On May 06 2011 07:57 Maliris wrote: Since when did having sound muted mean he wasn't streamhacking? you dont need sound to see hes going roach and it only takes like 1-2 seconds of tabbing to confirm it ;/ whatever, whats done is done
well if he was actually cheating, any person viewing his stream would be able to screenshot it, right? well maybe not if it was 2nd monitor or some set up i guess.
but it doesn't really matter.. it's just speculation. and odds are, as i was saying before in idra's stream, that just doesn't make any sense.
this guy is a serious player.. hes playing to be a good and accomplished sc2 player.
yeah well, i agree with your last point. its pretty suspicious at any rate... but pretty much the evidence isn't strong enough to make serious accusations. guess we will never know
lol why are ppl talking about evidence and screenshots is this a court room? is there some judge going to arrest him? this is the internet, if he did something or not is up to each person to decide upon what he sees lol there's no changing a persons opinion in the internet everyone is right all the time.
I think he (idra) should have gotten more then a 2 day ban. permaban the kid, Esports would be better with out him. Picture someone watching starcraft for the first time just to listen to this guy complain about how terrible the game is... Which is weird considering his life is devoted to it. IMO
On May 06 2011 08:31 SC2Joker wrote: I think he (idra) should have gotten more then a 2 day ban. permaban the kid, Esports would be better with out him. Picture someone watching starcraft for the first time just to listen to this guy complain about how terrible the game is... Which is weird considering his life is devoted to it. IMO
Lol without idra esports would be much more boring, you need somebody like him to troll noobs
On May 06 2011 08:31 SC2Joker wrote: I think he (idra) should have gotten more then a 2 day ban. permaban the kid, Esports would be better with out him. Picture someone watching starcraft for the first time just to listen to this guy complain about how terrible the game is... Which is weird considering his life is devoted to it. IMO
Not trying to turn the thread into an Idra/Cruncher debate, but I feel that this is a kneejerk reaction. IdrA is one of the best players in the world and brings a lot of viewers to events. Whether you like him or not, that's undeniable. He's had his stake in the TL community for a long time and that has earned his some preference over your average bad poster when it comes to bans. His life is devoted to it and that's why he is so critical of the game. Wouldn't you be mentioning your quarrels with your occupation if things weren't as they should be?
Sorry for the interruption again. Best of luck in future endeavors, Cruncher and co.
It is really sad that so many people are so easily influenced by a certain person to an extent where people have the urge to harass someone else. I watched his stream today and it was like a kindergarden. The chat was filthy and fueled by Idra's behaviour and arrogance...his personality. I respect idra for his accomplishment but he has some issues.
I'm not a fan of cruncher per se, but I am anti idra, especially after his latest little whine fest on the latest SOTG, so I'm glad Cruncher puts him in his place and makes him rage so much. Good job on the snipe, and good job with the smiley!
On May 06 2011 08:31 SC2Joker wrote: I think he (idra) should have gotten more then a 2 day ban. permaban the kid, Esports would be better with out him. Picture someone watching starcraft for the first time just to listen to this guy complain about how terrible the game is... Which is weird considering his life is devoted to it. IMO
idra has 70% more viewers than TL has active members he will never be perma banned unless he literally has sex with a mods mum.
im not condoning either idra or crunchers behaviour, im only interested in watching the games but banning idra does nothing good for the site, he isnt the only person special allowances are made for.
On May 06 2011 08:53 dxong wrote: It is really sad that so many people are so easily influenced by a certain person to an extent where people have the urge to harass someone else. I watched his stream today and it was like a kindergarden. The chat was filthy and fueled by Idra's behaviour and arrogance...his personality. I respect idra for his accomplishment but he has some issues.
Anyway good fight Cruncher, and keep it up!
Calling IdrA arrogant was last year, now most people realized they talked about someone they don't know shit about (there's a huge difference between objectivity + honesty and arrogance, by the way). Keep up with the times. (edit: "rage" also has lost its meaning long ago when people who dislike IdrA talk about IdrA, see shitty Husky fans present in this thread)
He also gives us all a great show, and actually likes his fanbase. There's nothing wrong with letting commercials run and support him by harassing someone else (though he probably does not care at all) in return.
On May 06 2011 08:31 SC2Joker wrote: I think he (idra) should have gotten more then a 2 day ban. permaban the kid, Esports would be better with out him. Picture someone watching starcraft for the first time just to listen to this guy complain about how terrible the game is... Which is weird considering his life is devoted to it. IMO
Good point, permaban the best american Starcraft 2 player.. esports would not be better without him. He has one of the biggest Fanbases of NA and Europe so I think he is rather helping esports
On May 06 2011 08:20 fahid wrote: lol why are ppl talking about evidence and screenshots is this a court room? is there some judge going to arrest him? this is the internet, if he did something or not is up to each person to decide upon what he sees lol there's no changing a persons opinion in the internet everyone is right all the time.
Are you serious? accusing someone of cheating is a pretty serious allegation, especially in eSports, where your reputation is pretty important. Also no, not everyone is right all the time on the internet. Not sure how you came to that conclusion
On May 06 2011 08:20 fahid wrote: lol why are ppl talking about evidence and screenshots is this a court room? is there some judge going to arrest him? this is the internet, if he did something or not is up to each person to decide upon what he sees lol there's no changing a persons opinion in the internet everyone is right all the time.
Are you serious? accusing someone of cheating is a pretty serious allegation, especially in eSports, where your reputation is pretty important. Also no, not everyone is right all the time on the internet. Not sure how you came to that conclusion
you're right, this isn't a court room. nothing's been proven yet.
There's nothing wrong with letting commercials run and support him by harassing someone else
People have made some good counter points he brings a large fanbase, mostly i like to think they're Starcraft fans in general not just idra fans, but when people like the guy i quoted says its okay to support him by harassing other people in his name is fucking absurd. That hurts the game more then it helps when idras ignorant (real definition) fans listen to his every word without thinking for themselves and attack anyone who questions him.
Lol without idra esports would be much more boring, you need somebody like him to troll noobs
Very true. he does make it entertaining to a degree. I actually dont dislike idra all that much. His fans on the other hand. thats a different story. Ever make fun of justin bieber in the presence of some preteen girls/talk about idra in front of his fans...same reaction from both parties.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I watched both streams and you are totally right. You sniped Idra, which is not cheating in any way whatsoever, and you checked his stream in order to do this but you had it muted. Idras spontaneous reaction in-game was "he is cheating" even though he had no proof of that. Very BM by Idra, and not in a cool and awesome way but just in a "sore loser" kind of way. You don't deserve the rage you get from Idra fans, and you deserve credit for beating the best Zerg in the world.
I used to be a bit of a Cruncher fan because he was so willing to play an effective, annoying, abusive style--that's exactly what you should do if given the opportunity! But watching his series versus July... what's happened? The cannon placement in that FFE was absolute trash; it wouldn't work against any diamond Zerg. This makes his TSL run even more incongruous, really.
I may sound like a complete n00b but... what the hell does sniping (the term used for the past few pages) mean? I really want to know, as it seems to be Cruncher's valid excuse for watching Idra's stream. Also, I still love you Cruncher <3
I may sound like a complete n00b but... what the hell does sniping (the term used for the past few pages) mean? I really want to know, as it seems to be Cruncher's valid excuse for watching Idra's stream. Also, I still love you Cruncher <3
If you have a hardon for a specific player you can watch their stream and see when they queue up for ladder and try and queue at the exact same time. It gives you a higher chance of playing them. Most people don't do it as they don't care too much about who they play as its just ladder.
I may sound like a complete n00b but... what the hell does sniping (the term used for the past few pages) mean? I really want to know, as it seems to be Cruncher's valid excuse for watching Idra's stream. Also, I still love you Cruncher <3
If you have a hardon for a specific player you can watch their stream and see when they queue up for ladder and try and queue at the exact same time. It gives you a higher chance of playing them. Most people don't do it as they don't care too much about who they play as its just ladder.
I dont even like this i dont feel like its appropriate he is acting like a 14 year old who has a chip on his shoulder
Cruncher wins the award for most boring playstyle of all time. Nothing against the guy but anyone who 3 base turtles->acquire deathball->1 battle after 20:00 of turtling the majority of his/her games is not very entertaining.
I may sound like a complete n00b but... what the hell does sniping (the term used for the past few pages) mean? I really want to know, as it seems to be Cruncher's valid excuse for watching Idra's stream. Also, I still love you Cruncher <3
If you have a hardon for a specific player you can watch their stream and see when they queue up for ladder and try and queue at the exact same time. It gives you a higher chance of playing them. Most people don't do it as they don't care too much about who they play as its just ladder.
I dont even like this i dont feel like its appropriate he is acting like a 14 year old who has a chip on his shoulder
as with Idra he shouldn't make personal attacks
As much as I do agree with you (I really do, the personal attacks are unnecessary and idra deserved a little ban for that), I find Cruncher's undeserved self righteousness about this whole issue really, really sad.
Heres what happens:
Cruncher gets himself in an EXTREMELY sticky situation (even having another stream open is highly unprofessional and tbh should be considered cheating on its own unless you turn it off the moment you enter the game), and crunchers response is to laugh at idra's understandably upset fans, insult idra himself, and assert he did absolutely nothing wrong.
Consider by analogy when geoff got caught in a a sticky situation on his stream (restreaming gomtv) . He acted like a professional, apologized, made a giant thread inviting discussion about it and promising to do better. That is how a professional handles issues like these. Cruncher needs to learn that, the self righteous attitude has to go.
Just so everyone in here knows, it is incredibly easy to control what sound gets output'd to your stream.
All we know is CrunCher was in the stream, and that he reacted to things he could not see instantly after IdrA said them.
Does that mean he cheated? no, though its very unlikely he did not. The point is, it's impossible to prove whether or not it was a legitimate cheat or not. Even if the evidence drastically points towards cheating, there's no solid concrete proof.
Furthermore, its a ladder game and means little to nothing and the over reaction on both sides is childish.
IdrA streams willingly knowing people he is playing against could watch his stream. There's nothing on the line and if he suspects that it is the case he can just leave the game.
He is making money off his stream, and he is also providing a service to his fans. IdrAs record vs. CrunCher is 3 losses 20 wins. He has no reason to get upset and his actions were uncalled for. CrunCher was stream sitting, that's a fact, and that's all anyone can prove. Drop it there, shitting up the community is not going to fix anything. if this was a tournament or a money game it would matter. Point being it's not.
On May 06 2011 13:16 RQShatter wrote: 1.) Idra "Oh look he is stream cheating he went 2 gate chronoing stalkers"
2.) zealots pop out and all his roaches die to cannons
3/) Idra rage quits obviously mad that cruncher outplayed him
What? there were no zealots, IdrAs Roaches did not die, and CrunCher responded to every single move IdrA did without scouting or any vision. Idra left the second he seen that CrunCher had blind countered him when IdrAs play normally would win agaisnt what he was doing.
Not saying he cheated as I said above, but don't make things up.
Remember way back when IdrA was caught checking peoples' build orders by going into their bnet profile? That doesn't provide a whole lot of information, no, but it's an example of someone doing everything they can to collect information on his opponent. I say more power to them both.
Anyway, this was a ladder game we're talking about, right? If so, who cares about stream cheating. People who stream should assume the risk of having others look at what they're broadcasting to the world. Otherwise, IdrA owes Cruncher $.002
Edit: Just read Nu11's post above and completely agree.
On May 06 2011 14:46 Montezuma wrote: Remember way back when IdrA was caught checking peoples' build orders by going into their bnet profile? That doesn't provide a whole lot of information, no, but it's an example of someone doing everything they can to collect information on his opponent. I say more power to them both.
Anyway, this was a ladder game we're talking about, right? If so, who cares about stream cheating. People who stream should assume the risk of having others look at what they're broadcasting to the world. Otherwise, IdrA owes Cruncher $.002
Edit: Just read Nu11's post above and completely agree.
Did you just say you don't care about cheating in SC2? Really?
Not to mention you think that the opportunity to allow cheating is somehow making it acceptable? No even remotely serious ethical theory in the world would possibly render that reasonable.
Time to hug logic and tell it that somewhere people actually still loves it.
On May 06 2011 14:46 Montezuma wrote: Remember way back when IdrA was caught checking peoples' build orders by going into their bnet profile? That doesn't provide a whole lot of information, no, but it's an example of someone doing everything they can to collect information on his opponent. I say more power to them both.
Anyway, this was a ladder game we're talking about, right? If so, who cares about stream cheating. People who stream should assume the risk of having others look at what they're broadcasting to the world. Otherwise, IdrA owes Cruncher $.002
Edit: Just read Nu11's post above and completely agree.
Did you just say you don't care about cheating in SC2? Really?
Not to mention you think that the opportunity to allow cheating is somehow making it acceptable? No even remotely serious ethical theory in the world would possibly render that reasonable.
Time to hug logic and tell it that somewhere people actually still loves it.
ROFL. Can just picture a curled up little furry animal quivering with fear.
Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game.
Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is the right thing to do morally, but honestly let it go, its legitimate in a way and no policies are being broken.
By terms it is not cheating, as no specific rules are being broken. Stream is released to public, Cruncher is the public, no rules prohibit him from viewing. Sure Cruncher may not have good sportsmanship, but did he "cheat?" No.
Btw really? Ban Cruncher? I understand if people are upset that he did something morally wrong, but ban? What rules did he break exactly?
I am not a cruncher fan, I have not even seen a single game he played before making this post, in fact I was always a fan of IdrA since 2008, but I will not make delusional arguments just because my fave player lost 10 ladder points to a legitimate strategy.
So if anyone can actually debate this in a sophisticated style instead of just capsing about how he cheated, even though he did not, I would appreciate it. Again I am not doing this in defense of Cruncher, as I barely heard of him, but I cannot stand silent looking at such messed up arguments some people are making.
On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game.
If you can't see what "insert name of fat-polish-protoss player" supposedly did was ethically flawed, then I fear your overall judgment and moral fiber. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
On May 06 2011 15:39 travis wrote: Watching or listening to another player's stream while laddering against them absolutely isn't acceptable on tl.net.
Watching their streams to time when you search for a game so that you will go up against them is perfectly fine, and hilarious.
Does anyone else feel that this is a bit over the line? While I am no giant fan of idra, going out of your way to play him with the sole intention of making him rage, all the while he is trying to contribute with some commentary seems like a real dick move to me.
On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game.
If you can't see what "insert name of fat-polish-protoss player" supposedly did was ethically flawed, then I fear your overall judgment and moral fiber. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
If you are going to refute my points can you actually quote what I said entirely. I am not interested in your argument at all, as quoting only my intro is just pathetic. I already said that it was morally wrong and bad sportsmanship, all I said was that it was not literally defined as cheating.
On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game.
Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is the right thing to do morally, but honestly let it go, its legitimate in a way and no policies are being broken.
By terms it is not cheating, as no specific rules are being broken. Stream is released to public, Cruncher is the public, no rules prohibit him from viewing. Sure Cruncher may not have good sportsmanship, but did he "cheat?" No.
Btw really? Ban Cruncher? I understand if people are upset that he did something morally wrong, but ban? What rules did he break exactly?
I am not a cruncher fan, I have not even seen a single game he played before making this post, in fact I was always a fan of IdrA since 2008, but I will not make delusional arguments just because my fave player lost 10 ladder points to a legitimate strategy.
So if anyone can actually debate this in a sophisticated style instead of just capsing about how he cheated, even though he did not, I would appreciate it. Again I am not doing this in defense of Cruncher, as I barely heard of him, but I cannot stand silent looking at such messed up arguments some people are making.
On May 06 2011 13:16 RQShatter wrote: 1.) Idra "Oh look he is stream cheating he went 2 gate chronoing stalkers"
2.) zealots pop out and all his roaches die to cannons
3/) Idra rage quits obviously mad that cruncher outplayed him
What? there were no zealots, IdrAs Roaches did not die, and CrunCher responded to every single move IdrA did without scouting or any vision. Idra left the second he seen that CrunCher had blind countered him when IdrAs play normally would win agaisnt what he was doing.
Not saying he cheated as I said above, but don't make things up.
There were zealots and he did lose like 2 roaches to cannons... wth are you talking about.
I'm actually disturbed by how many bans there are in the ABL about how this guy is supposedly hacking or is an easytoss n00b who got past the TSL3 early rounds on shear luck. *Shudders*
That being said he's a great player, and I am rather inspired that such a young guy can become so goddamn good.
On May 06 2011 15:29 iTzAnglory wrote: Viewing someone's stream in a ladder game is legitimate. Unless I see rules on why you cannot during ladder, I do not see any reason to cry. Please link me to a TL rule or Battle.net rule that says you may not use streaming to your own advantage in-game.
Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is the right thing to do morally, but honestly let it go, its legitimate in a way and no policies are being broken.
By terms it is not cheating, as no specific rules are being broken. Stream is released to public, Cruncher is the public, no rules prohibit him from viewing. Sure Cruncher may not have good sportsmanship, but did he "cheat?" No.
Btw really? Ban Cruncher? I understand if people are upset that he did something morally wrong, but ban? What rules did he break exactly?
I am not a cruncher fan, I have not even seen a single game he played before making this post, in fact I was always a fan of IdrA since 2008, but I will not make delusional arguments just because my fave player lost 10 ladder points to a legitimate strategy.
So if anyone can actually debate this in a sophisticated style instead of just capsing about how he cheated, even though he did not, I would appreciate it. Again I am not doing this in defense of Cruncher, as I barely heard of him, but I cannot stand silent looking at such messed up arguments some people are making.
The watching or listening to or "ghosting" of a stream violates the essential rules of the game of Starcraft. This is a game built upon imperfect information. Stream cheating in any fashion obviously violates that law of imperfect information.
Stream cheating is cheating the game in the same sense as map hacks are cheating the game. Perhaps it is not quite as active or effective, but it is wrong for the same reason.
You raise a somewhat valid point in saying that a stream is public information, and because of this I do not know what Battle.net's stance is on stream watching. However, I don't think anyone is discussing repercussions to Cruncher's Bnet account.
We are talking about ramifications of his alleged actions in relation TL.net. Team Liquid is a site dedicated to competitive starcraft. As a featured streamer, Cruncher reflects on the image of team liquid. Stream cheating violates rules of competitive starcraft, and therefore anyone who partakes in those violations should have some punishment(on TL) for their actions.
While this case is not quite the same, look back to stream-cheating punishments for past TSL qualifiers to get an idea of how TL feels about stream-watching. If cruncher did in fact cheat, he is reflecting poorly on team liquid as a featured streamer.
Hopefully that somewhat clears up how exactly it is "cheating".
(to be clear I'm not damning cruncher here. Just trying to answer the quoted question. While I think it is a suspicious situation, I don't see enough evidence pointing towards anything other than stream sniping.)
Wow, I can't believe people are defending stream-cheating.
What rules did he break exactly?
Do you really have to ask that? Is being able to see what the other person is doing really a "legitimate strategy" to you? I wonder how many people lack common sense on these forums, or maybe people are just playing devil's advocate for the sake of arguing.
If you can't proof that he cheated, SNIPING is allowed as I have understood, then stop whining. If he really did watch his stream/listened while playing it's obviously wrong and should be banned for that kind of stupid behaviour. But if you can't proof anything then it's just probably better keep your mouth shut=)
On May 06 2011 16:49 PeZuY wrote: If you can't proof that he cheated, SNIPING is allowed as I have understood, then stop whining. If he really did watch his stream/listened while playing it's obviously wrong and should be banned for that kind of stupid behaviour. But if you can't proof anything then it's just probably better keep your mouth shut=)
Proof is an incoherent word when used in almost any situation. At best you're going to argue against justified belief and the fact is there's reasonable justification to believe it, even if it's not indisputable proof. Sidenote: Anyone asking for indisputable proof for anything outside mathematical or logical proofs should never be taken seriously.
Although not officially, Liquid`Tyler made some off hand *comments about the Cruncher/Idra situation on his stream a few minutes ago.
While streaming, Tyler visited some of the various threads on this topic across TL and /r/starcraft. It didn't take long for him to quickly gather the 2 points of view. His comment was that he too had 'stream sniped' in the past like Cruncher and occasionally forgets to close it once in game (and has to tab out to do so). Without quoting directly, his view was that he didn't feel it was conclusive in terms of cheating and was clearly not surprised by the act. There was zero drama in his response.
This is a good example of an outsider taking the facts for face value and not freaking out. If you have respect for how much of a level headed a guy he is, I hope that you (I suppose I am just speaking to the Idra defenders) will consider that Cruncher isn't some terrible cheat and was just trying to get a game vs Idra. It's nice to see that he isn't afraid to play him and when he does get matched, we (the viewers) all win.
Cruncher doesn't seem to care about the perception people have of him, and that is kinda cool. I know another guy who is like that too...
I am a fan of both guys and hope that their drama continues, it's nice when the games matter. Calling him a cheater only devalues the game for fans and really is unjustified.
*I do not represent Tyler and in no way am I speaking for him. I am just rehashing a few minutes of his stream as I interpreted it.
On May 06 2011 16:49 PeZuY wrote: If you can't proof that he cheated, SNIPING is allowed as I have understood, then stop whining. If he really did watch his stream/listened while playing it's obviously wrong and should be banned for that kind of stupid behaviour. But if you can't proof anything then it's just probably better keep your mouth shut=)
Proof is an incoherent word when used in almost any situation. At best you're going to argue against justified belief and the fact is there's reasonable justification to believe it, even if it's not indisputable proof. Sidenote: Anyone asking for indisputable proof for anything outside mathematical or logical proofs should never be taken seriously.
On May 06 2011 07:57 Maliris wrote: Since when did having sound muted mean he wasn't streamhacking? you dont need sound to see hes going roach and it only takes like 1-2 seconds of tabbing to confirm it ;/ whatever, whats done is done
well if he was actually cheating, any person viewing his stream would be able to screenshot it, right? well maybe not if it was 2nd monitor or some set up i guess.
but it doesn't really matter.. it's just speculation. and odds are, as i was saying before in idra's stream, that just doesn't make any sense.
this guy is a serious player.. hes playing to be a good and accomplished sc2 player.
He is stream sniping players to piss them off. Then makes a troll bait post that will definetly get tons of people banned and also he has been using the most known foreign starcraft player to boost his own efame. Most of the people know cruncher only by TSL bo3 and the ladder drama. So if I throw a bag of shit at Obama during some live event then it makes me serious politician because I abused someones popularity?
@cheating whine: It was pretty easy decision for Cruncher in that game (Nexus almost a minute sooner than hatch and IdrA pretty much has only 1 allin build.) so I am pretty sure that he didn't cheat. There wasn't a need for it. Also note that IdrA rarely goes for early pool(6-10) so nexus first is completly viable against him.
On May 06 2011 18:51 DeathNTaxes wrote: How does this guy have a fan club, hes not even good.
He is actually good but some people don't like his personality. You could easily compare him with Thorzain. When he has to play many top players in a row then he doesn't do well but when you give him time to prepare he will find so many weaknesses in his opponent. Check Cruncher's stream and TSL games ( not qualification but his games against idra and naniwa ). He is overall a great player but he shouldn't make a name by trolling idra.
On May 06 2011 16:12 Kinetik_Inferno wrote: I'm actually disturbed by how many bans there are in the ABL about how this guy is supposedly hacking or is an easytoss n00b who got past the TSL3 early rounds on shear luck. *Shudders*
That being said he's a great player, and I am rather inspired that such a young guy can become so goddamn good.
Same, I actually started to avoid reading about it yesterdat because it was sickening to read people behave this disrespectful towards someone, especially when it isn't based on anything. Now that it's still going on and people still spout hate I feel I need to put my foot down.
To respond on the controversy: First off you cannot say that he cheated. There is no evidence what so ever that he did. The screenshot has the stream muted, he's already a high level player regardless if you like his style he produces results, you would have to say that he is stupid for streaming himself cheating and not trying to hide it in anyway also means you think he wouldn't be aware if he's cheating. So, it's based on nothing and using nothing to tarnish someones name is in my book a way worse offense. Also if he had the stream sound on, or he had a second monitor, or he had someone watching for him, all of which you can literally say about anybody in everycase, then if it was just one ladder match I could understand and would have no problem with it. It's like when you play with your friends but you "cheat" one time not to be unfair, but just to stir them up. In that sense, for me atleast, the integrity of the competition part of cheating doesn't apply as being broken so I don't care.
Second point is already contained in the first one or I forgot it. How dare you be so disrespectful and arrogant, assuming things left and right, implicating foul judgements, blackening ones name in the community, spitting hatred, insighting hatred etc. You realise that in the spirit of freedom of speech, that is the only thing that is not allowed? You can say whatever you want but you cannot malicously manipulate like that.
For CrunCher, I really liked it when djWheat tells the story of how you did in wc3 and how it was at the end and you made the swap, especially because you have been able to get to a high level in starcraft too. I do think in general the style feels a bit too safe for my taste, I'm a big fan of really aggresive play but from the state of the game episode where Nony shed some light on this, I actually came to respect it more and see the good things about it. Stay strong and make sure the disrespectful haters don't get you down, I actually feel ashamed they have an equally strong voice as me.
On May 06 2011 15:39 travis wrote: Watching or listening to another player's stream while laddering against them absolutely isn't acceptable on tl.net.
Watching their streams to time when you search for a game so that you will go up against them is perfectly fine, and hilarious.
Wisest words ever written on tl.net. Keep up the entertainment value, Cruncher! If IdrA isnt around to supply it, his "fanbase" is!
Thats too bad about your games Vs July. That neutral supply depot really screwed you over, but its pretty easily killable and you had a cannon right there. Oh well, I guess thats a downside to changing the maps to prevent 2-pylon walloffs.
On May 06 2011 18:51 DeathNTaxes wrote: How does this guy have a fan club, hes not even good.
He is actually good but some people don't like his personality. You could easily compare him with Thorzain. When he has to play many top players in a row then he doesn't do well but when you give him time to prepare he will find so many weaknesses in his opponent. Check Cruncher's stream and TSL games ( not qualification but his games against idra and naniwa ). He is overall a great player but he shouldn't make a name by trolling idra.
Not really comparable to Thorzain
Thorzains more mannered, better innovative strats, good grasp of macro and actually a good player where Cruncer is only good due to op fotm strats
On May 06 2011 18:51 DeathNTaxes wrote: How does this guy have a fan club, hes not even good.
He is actually good but some people don't like his personality. You could easily compare him with Thorzain.
wtf? how is this what thorzain is like at all? no one has a problem with thorzains personality, apart from the fact that they are both good players that haven't really been in the limelight...
anyway pretty lame that everyone just trolls this fanclub ;/ if u dont like a player don't post in their fanclub
If you're gonna one-up IdrA, do it without cheating...once the dust settles, I think Cruncher's the only one who people are gonna remember.
If you call someone a "waste of life" in professional sport people will talk about you for a week. You get busted taking performance enhancing drugs (read: cheating), people won't ever respect you in competition.
Edit: modified to prevent being gassed by TL mod reich
On May 06 2011 22:40 Ruscour wrote: If you're gonna one-up IdrA, do it without cheating...once the dust settles, I think Cruncher's the only one who people are gonna remember.
If you call someone a "waste of life" in professional sport people will talk about you for a week. You get busted taking performance enhancing drugs (read: cheating), people won't ever respect you in competition.
Edit: modified to prevent being gassed by TL mod reich
People will remember Idra way longer then they will cruncher as things are now. And i'm not saying that with any disrespect to either.
you may want to look at improving long term rather than abusing short term possibilities. I don't know anyone who is liked less than this guy, at least in terms of ratio, theres like 10 people that call this guy terrible, and 1 person who says "he's ok" From what i've heard so far anyway, withholding any of my own opinion about him as a person, but his play is reminiscent of platinum toss players who havent figured out hotkey/multi tasking yet.
Anyway, hope you improve and show people that you can do more than /afk and wait for colo to come out
On May 06 2011 23:52 Eleaven wrote: Good luck with your.. career.... cruncher..
you may want to look at improving long term rather than abusing short term possibilities. I don't know anyone who is liked less than this guy, at least in terms of ratio, theres like 10 people that call this guy terrible, and 1 person who says "he's ok" From what i've heard so far anyway, withholding any of my own opinion about him as a person, but his play is reminiscent of platinum toss players who havent figured out hotkey/multi tasking yet.
Anyway, hope you improve and show people that you can do more than /afk and wait for colo to come out
On May 07 2011 00:45 aDd3z wrote: Why are people giving him so much hate? This is a fanclub and not a haterclub And they should know that they will get banned/warned....
gogo Cruncher
Because their idol was beaten and they cant accept it.
On May 07 2011 00:45 aDd3z wrote: Why are people giving him so much hate? This is a fanclub and not a haterclub And they should know that they will get banned/warned....
gogo Cruncher
Because their idol was beaten and they cant accept it.
No. People are allowed to call someone out objectively because they saw a possible star on the rise respond in an immature way to a controversial issue that happened on his stream. Don't discredit everyone who is trying to say cruncher needs to shape up by saying 'oh they are all clearly butthurt fanboys of idra' No, they could be just people who saw the situation and felt obligated to call cruncher out....
On May 07 2011 00:45 aDd3z wrote: Why are people giving him so much hate? This is a fanclub and not a haterclub And they should know that they will get banned/warned....
gogo Cruncher
Because their idol was beaten and they cant accept it.
No. People are allowed to call someone out objectively because they saw a possible star on the rise respond in an immature way to a controversial issue that happened on his stream. Don't discredit everyone who is trying to say cruncher needs to shape up by saying 'oh they are all clearly butthurt fanboys of idra' No, they could be just people who saw the situation and felt obligated to call cruncher out....
Have you even read the posts he was talking about? Thats hate, and it started way before yesterday.
On May 07 2011 00:45 aDd3z wrote: Why are people giving him so much hate? This is a fanclub and not a haterclub And they should know that they will get banned/warned....
gogo Cruncher
Because their idol was beaten and they cant accept it.
No. People are allowed to call someone out objectively because they saw a possible star on the rise respond in an immature way to a controversial issue that happened on his stream. Don't discredit everyone who is trying to say cruncher needs to shape up by saying 'oh they are all clearly butthurt fanboys of idra' No, they could be just people who saw the situation and felt obligated to call cruncher out....
Have you even read the posts he was talking about? Thats hate, and it started way before yesterday.
It's hilarious how many people claim Cruncher is only where he is due to 'abusing op fotm strats' - if it were so easy, why is he winning games of that caliber and not you, your grandma, or any other of the thousands of Protoss players out there?
And don't give me this bs about 'self respect' and people who want a 'challenge', anyone who even TRIES to play competitively but doesn't use the most powerful strategies is simply retarded and not worthy of being called a 'pro' player.
Fyi, I hate Cruncher for knocking Mondy out of TSL but damn, the stupidity levels of this whine are astonishing. He's certainly by no means a terrible player.
Thorzains more mannered, better innovative strats, good grasp of macro and actually a good player where Cruncer is only good due to op fotm strats
wtf? how is this what thorzain is like at all? no one has a problem with thorzains personality, apart from the fact that they are both good players that haven't really been in the limelight...
anyway pretty lame that everyone just trolls this fanclub ;/ if u dont like a player don't post in their fanclub
Sorry for bad wording. I didn't compare their personalities... Both players are really smart and have similar ability to beat quite strong opponents due to their effective practice. Their personalities are completly different tho.
Requote:
Cruncer is only good due to op fotm strats
Picking a right strategy to win makes player bad? Tell me what "op fotm strats" protoss has? Before you answer I'll remind you that infestors and broodlords are really good and 200/200 roach only army indeed sucks against protoss "op strats".
That's my last post in this thread as I don't want to discuss this issue in someone's fanclub anymore. As a random player thorzain, idra and cruncher (ofc there are many other players who's style I copy) have all been incredibly helpful in certain matchups with their streams. Please stop bashing top players skill level just because of their personality. Rivalry between players isn't a bad thing but flaming and raging in forum won't get you anywhere.
A bit offtopic but.. lastly I'd like to add that people seem to forget everything really fast. When Jinro performered well he was so popular and considered best foreign terran. His fanclub thread got spammed constantly but after underperforming in last few events, he has been forgotten by a lot of these fans. Probably like quarter of them don't even watch his games anymore who signed up in fanclub. Same story applies to HuK, White-Ra, Dimaga, IdrA and many other top players who have had low points. Message to all the fans: keep supporting your favourite players so they would come out of the slump faster! (Insulting other top players isn't a good way to support)
On May 07 2011 00:45 aDd3z wrote: Why are people giving him so much hate? This is a fanclub and not a haterclub And they should know that they will get banned/warned....
gogo Cruncher
Typical Idra fanboy-zealots and forum martyrs, nothing new really.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering.
First, here are some pictures.
In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod.
On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54
On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things..
Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that.
Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game.
Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay.
Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast.
As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA.
This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over.
And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard.
As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot?
What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over.
This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game.
What i think happened:
I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room.
You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended.
So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
I too would like all of those points you raised to be answered. It looks very suspicious to say the least when Cruncher submits a screenshot of him viewing idra's stream LONG after their game as proof that he had it muted.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering.
First, here are some pictures.
In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod.
On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54
On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things..
Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that.
Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game.
Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay.
Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast.
As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA.
This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over.
And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard.
As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot?
What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over.
This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game.
What i think happened:
I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room.
You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended.
So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
Ok, so you can prove that he was logged onto IdrA's stream 40mins after his game with him. What is the significance of that? Also what's with the green circle around the replay, is there any point you're trying to make here? None of the "evidence" you've provided here shows anything we didn't already have available to us.
On May 07 2011 06:00 Nagano wrote: DaggothReborn, nice work!
I too would like all of those points you raised to be answered. It looks very suspicious to say the least when Cruncher submits a screenshot of him viewing idra's stream LONG after their game as proof that he had it muted.
Seriously, amazing catch. Sherlock over here :D
So you expect Cruncher to just have a screenshot available at every moment he plays? It's likely that the screenshot was taken after he read of TL or w/e he was accused of cheating. IMO it neither proves him innocent nor guilty
Of course he's not going to randomly spam prt sc whenever he's playing..
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering.
First, here are some pictures.
In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod.
On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54
On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things..
Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that.
Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game.
Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay.
Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast.
As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA.
This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over.
And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard.
As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot?
What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over.
This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game.
What i think happened:
I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room.
You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended.
So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
Ok, so you can prove that he was logged onto IdrA's stream 40mins after his game with him. What is the significance of that? Also what's with the green circle around the replay, is there any point you're trying to make here? None of the "evidence" you've provided here shows anything we didn't already have available to us.
The significance of that is Cruncher uploaded that screenshot to show he had idra's stream muted during his game. With Daggoth's detective work, we can now see that Cruncher took a screenshot of the stream 30 minutes after their game together, therefore we can no longer trust Cruncher's screenshot as evidence that he was not streamcheating.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering.
First, here are some pictures.
In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod.
On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54
On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things..
Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that.
Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game.
Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay.
Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast.
As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA.
This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over.
And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard.
As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot?
What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over.
This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game.
What i think happened:
I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room.
You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended.
So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
Ok, so you can prove that he was logged onto IdrA's stream 40mins after his game with him. What is the significance of that? Also what's with the green circle around the replay, is there any point you're trying to make here? None of the "evidence" you've provided here shows anything we didn't already have available to us.
The significance of that is Cruncher uploaded that screenshot to show he had idra's stream muted during his game. With Daggoth's detective work, we can now see that Cruncher took a screenshot of the stream 30 minutes after their game together, therefore we can no longer trust Cruncher's screenshot as evidence that he was not streamcheating.
Please re-read the last two or so posts of this thread.
you guys realize cruncher didn't even take the screen shot right?
gj though detectives
A third party took the screenshot. It does not matter though because the muted status of idra's stream is shown within Cruncher's own stream and not the screen of the third party, making everything daggoth stated remain true. Cruncher then referred to this very picture as evidence that he had it muted during his game against Idra. Nothing changes due to the fact that it was taken by another person because Cruncher's screen is in plain view via the stream window. I.E. that is Cruncher watching the stream 30 minutes later with the sound muted while watching a replay.
On May 07 2011 03:48 Sethronu wrote: It's hilarious how many people claim Cruncher is only where he is due to 'abusing op fotm strats' - if it were so easy, why is he winning games of that caliber and not you, your grandma, or any other of the thousands of Protoss players out there?
And don't give me this bs about 'self respect' and people who want a 'challenge', anyone who even TRIES to play competitively but doesn't use the most powerful strategies is simply retarded and not worthy of being called a 'pro' player.
Fyi, I hate Cruncher for knocking Mondy out of TSL but damn, the stupidity levels of this whine are astonishing. He's certainly by no means a terrible player.
Yeah whatever that means. I didnt watch games but games I have seen him in he displays remarkable strategy. For example, G1 in TSL vs IdrA Cruncher played it very safe knowing that was good map to get 3 easy defensible bases. Building fast stargate is great because the quick void allowed for defense against 2 base roach attacks and phoenix for great scouting so he could continue with his plan. Then Cruncher actually stopped making probes to save supply for more army for his death ball he was building. Idra wavered whole game with indecision because he expected 4gate as opposed to macro and not knowing where to attack threw many units away, and excellent defense by Cruncher IdrA lost his advantage. Cruncher had a plan and executed IdrA did not. G3 IdrA already saw 2 macro games from Cruncher when he was expecting "all he knows how to do is 4gate" Cruncher fooled IdrA again with a 5/6 gate while showing a nominal expansion fooling IdrA to make drones. IdrA also failed to minimize the effects of forcefields by baiting with smaller groups of units or spreading out his units. With NaNi Cruncher displayed similar genius in what people call build order loses which is nothing further from truth. Bottom line Chrucher is very good, results speak for themselves no matter what WhineRa's fanbois say.
On May 07 2011 06:16 travis wrote: So then WTF is your point? That the screenshot doesn't matter? Woopdy shit, no one ever said it did.
The point is Cruncher used this screenshot, uploaded by another person, to show he was not stream cheating during his game, when AT BEST, we can say this screenshot shows absolutely zero in support of Cruncher's statement. i.e., Cruncher cannot use this screenshot as evidence he did not stream cheat (which is what he is currently doing).
Pretty sure Cruncher used this screenshot as proof to Chill that he was not listening in. Take your conflict to Cruncher because he said this screenshot mattered.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering.
First, here are some pictures.
In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod.
On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54
On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things..
Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that.
Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game.
Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay.
Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast.
As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA.
This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over.
And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard.
As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot?
What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over.
This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game.
What i think happened:
I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room.
You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended.
So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, Cruncher didn't take that screenshot, one of his viewers did. He even says it in his original message, "as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)". You could tell this because if it was Cruncher on his own channel right next to the "Speak" button in chat you'd have the "Time from last commercial" prompt on his own channel.
So your "deconstruction" of Cruncher trying to hide things by using the "sniping tool" is all BS since he didn't even take that screenshot. Gotta love it when people are frothing at the mouth so much that they don't even read to try to destroy someone. Blind hate is good!
On May 07 2011 06:19 Nagano wrote: The point is Cruncher used this screenshot, uploaded by another person, to show he was not stream cheating during his game, when AT BEST, we can say this screenshot shows absolutely zero in support of Cruncher's statement. i.e., Cruncher cannot use this screenshot as evidence he did not stream cheat (which is what he is currently doing).
No... someone else used the screenshot as evidence that cruncher was cheating. Cruncher then showed the fact that in the screenshot the sound is muted, and he was just using the stream to snipe idra (as said by cruncher's viewers in the chat as well).
I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe.
The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again")
i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots.
i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in
go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3.
hint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5?
edit2: you guys can also go check my eu account, and see how often zergs do 1 base/2base all ins against me
edit3: you guys can also go check out my wc3 history, which i played for 4~ years, 2 which i played on top levels and attended multiple lans, playing top 3 in more than 1.
I think his point is that people have been using the SS as proof the stream was muted when he played IdrA, which as we now know the SS is 30 minutes after he played IdrA. The SS doesn't show us anything other than he was in IdrA's stream at some point.
So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter. I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad.
On May 07 2011 06:19 Nagano wrote: The point is Cruncher used this screenshot, uploaded by another person, to show he was not stream cheating during his game, when AT BEST, we can say this screenshot shows absolutely zero in support of Cruncher's statement. i.e., Cruncher cannot use this screenshot as evidence he did not stream cheat (which is what he is currently doing).
No... someone else used the screenshot as evidence that cruncher was cheating. Cruncher then showed the fact that in the screenshot the sound is muted, and he was just using the stream to snipe idra (as said by cruncher's viewers in the chat as well).
Getchoor facts straight.
Tell me what facts in my quote are wrong? I said Cruncher referred to that screenshot to show that he had the stream muted, but like Daggoth and I mentioned, the screenshot does not prove anything of the sort because it was taken 30 minutes after Cruncher's game with Idra? What am I missing?
On May 06 2011 07:30 Chill wrote: Original Message From CrunCher: sniping=waiting till he searches to search
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
Business as usual. Recommend no action and warning people flaming his fanclub.
That is Cruncher stating "as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)" -- 30 minutes later. Does not prove the same for when he was actually playing against Idra.
On May 07 2011 06:25 Swineflew wrote: So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter. I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad.
On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote: I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe.
The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again")
i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots.
i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in
go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3.
hint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
Yeah, It's actually really funny. The part when he accuses you of stream cheating you had two ZEALOTS rallied outside your wall to combat a ROACH all in. Idk where people get these ideas.
On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote: I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe.
The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again")
i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots.
i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in
go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3.
hint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5?
I don't think the evidence was strong enough to show you were stream cheating. And I think people need to respect that. The discussion the past 2 pages was of the screenshot posted and it's inability to show you were NOT stream cheating during the game vs Idra because it was taken at a much later time, that's all.
On May 07 2011 06:25 Swineflew wrote: So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter. I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad.
in what way is sniping cheating?
I'm not a big fan of using an outside source/third party/whatever to manipulate how the game works.
On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote: I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe.
The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again")
i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots.
i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in
go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3.
hint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5?
edit2: you guys can also go check my eu account, and see how often zergs do 1 base/2base all ins against me
edit3: you guys can also go check out my wc3 history, which i played for 4~ years, 2 which i played on top levels and attended multiple lans, playing top 3 in more than 1.
On May 06 2011 07:30 Chill wrote: Original Message From CrunCher: sniping=waiting till he searches to search
This might be totally unrelated but why does what do on battle.net impact what you do on teamliquid? Do the teamliquid administrators also govern battle.net?
Obviously I totally respect the right of teamliquid to ban anyone for any reason (it is their site afterall, this is not a public area owned by some governement etc) - I probably would have done the same on my own sites.
And obviously I recognize idra was banned for what he posted on TL.
It's the fact that chill pm'd cruncher to question him about it.
I suppose since many team liquid members receive the content by visiting the embedded streams on TL, if they are viewing people cheating it can reflect poorly on TL indirectly.
However, in my view, if you're going to stream these are the kinds of risks you may run into. Ultimately, this is not some major tournament with thousands of dollars on the line, it's a couple of elo points on battle.net. This whole drama may help increase viewership so maybe a few dozen dollars are on the line (justin.tv ads etc). Big whoooop. So even if Cruncher did cheat, who really cares? Would it make a difference if it was a custom game? What if me and my friend agree that I feel i'm so much better than him, I invite him to watch my stream to make it more challenging for myself? (not implying cruncher/idra did this, just hypothetically) - would this result in being PM'd by a TL mod / being warned?
Does this only apply to really popular players? What is the threshold? What if say...-orb- (picking him randomly off the list because I don't know him... sorry -orb- i'm sure you're gosu) was the one who "may have been cheating", would that invoke the same reactions?
On May 07 2011 06:52 fubusama wrote: This might be totally unrelated but why does what do on battle.net impact what you do on teamliquid? Do the teamliquid administrators also govern battle.net?
Obviously I totally respect the right of teamliquid to ban anyone for any reason (it is their site afterall, this is not a public area owned by some governement etc) - I probably would have done the same on my own sites.
And obviously I recognize idra was banned for what he posted on TL.
It's the fact that chill pm'd cruncher to question him about it.
I suppose since many team liquid members receive the content by visiting the embedded streams on TL, if they are viewing people cheating it can reflect poorly on TL indirectly.
However, in my view, if you're going to stream these are the kinds of risks you may run into. Ultimately, this is not some major tournament with thousands of dollars on the line, it's a couple of elo points on battle.net. This whole drama may help increase viewership so maybe a few dozen dollars are on the line (justin.tv ads etc). Big whoooop. So even if Cruncher did cheat, who really cares? Would it make a difference if it was a custom game? What if me and my friend agree that I feel i'm so much better than him, I invite him to watch my stream to make it more challenging for myself? (not implying cruncher/idra did this, just hypothetically) - would this result in being PM'd by a TL mod / being warned?
Does this only apply to really popular players? What is the threshold? What if say...-orb- (picking him randomly off the list because I don't know him... sorry -orb- i'm sure you're gosu) was the one who "may have been cheating", would that invoke the same reactions?
Cruncher has a fanclub thread, a stream thread, many followers, participates in important tournaments (TSL etc) and you're asking who cares if he cheats?
To answer your question, I doubt the mods would care if you stream cheated, or even maphacked on your stream, simply because you are not a progamer, are not a significant player in the SC2 community, and the mods probably have better things to do with their time. (I assume)
Cruncher has a fanclub thread, a stream thread, many followers, participates in important tournaments (TSL etc) and you're asking who cares if he cheats?
To answer your question, I doubt the mods would care if you stream cheated, or even maphacked on your stream, simply because you are not a progamer, are not a significant player in the SC2 community, and the mods probably have better things to do with their time. (I assume)
Clearly I've offended you to take a stab at me. I'm trying to invoke a discussion about it. I don't see why my play/stream goes here when I made no such reference. Regardless...
My main point is, it's not like he's cheating in the GSL/TSL/MLG major tournament (and I am not suggesting he cheated on the laddeR) - but if he DID, why does that matter? What if Artosis and Tasteless were playing at eachothers houses, and tasteless peaked at artosis screen during a game, that's definitely cheating! But, the game they are playing doesn't matter - it's just for fun. In theory, games on the ladder are for fun since they do not have any bearing on anything... (unless I am mistaken about ladder being important)
Cruncher has a fanclub thread, a stream thread, many followers, participates in important tournaments (TSL etc) and you're asking who cares if he cheats?
To answer your question, I doubt the mods would care if you stream cheated, or even maphacked on your stream, simply because you are not a progamer, are not a significant player in the SC2 community, and the mods probably have better things to do with their time. (I assume)
Clearly I've offended you to take a stab at me. I'm trying to invoke a discussion about it. I don't see why my play/stream goes here when I made no such reference. Regardless...
My main point is, it's not like he's cheating in the GSL/TSL/MLG major tournament (and I am not suggesting he cheated on the laddeR) - but if he DID, why does that matter? What if Artosis and Tasteless were playing at eachothers houses, and tasteless peaked at artosis screen during a game, that's definitely cheating! But, the game they are playing doesn't matter - it's just for fun. In theory, games on the ladder are for fun since they do not have any bearing on anything... (unless I am mistaken about ladder being important)
I would say that when it comes to cheating it doesn't just matter what you think is important, but what your opponent thinks is important as well.
Cruncher has a fanclub thread, a stream thread, many followers, participates in important tournaments (TSL etc) and you're asking who cares if he cheats?
To answer your question, I doubt the mods would care if you stream cheated, or even maphacked on your stream, simply because you are not a progamer, are not a significant player in the SC2 community, and the mods probably have better things to do with their time. (I assume)
Clearly I've offended you to take a stab at me. I'm trying to invoke a discussion about it. I don't see why my play/stream goes here when I made no such reference. Regardless...
My main point is, it's not like he's cheating in the GSL/TSL/MLG major tournament (and I am not suggesting he cheated on the laddeR) - but if he DID, why does that matter? What if Artosis and Tasteless were playing at eachothers houses, and tasteless peaked at artosis screen during a game, that's definitely cheating! But, the game they are playing doesn't matter - it's just for fun. In theory, games on the ladder are for fun since they do not have any bearing on anything... (unless I am mistaken about ladder being important)
I would say that when it comes to cheating it doesn't just matter what you think is important, but what your opponent thinks is important as well.
Worth nothing that after the game idra didn't even check the replay, look at his viewer list, or even pause before going to the next game. GSL Code-S player among a billion other accolades lends me to believe he's not too concerned about ladder.
On May 07 2011 06:28 travis wrote: lol cruncher im amazed at how collected u stay
On May 07 2011 06:25 Swineflew wrote: So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter. I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad.
in what way is sniping cheating?
I'm not a big fan of using an outside source/third party/whatever to manipulate how the game works.
How is it manipulating how the game works. All it does is give him a better chance to get matched up with the person you are sniping. I think it's more than fine and actually a bit funny.
I hope you realize that you just answered your own question.
Idra fans are starting to act like babies just like Idra is Theres no evidence whatsoever that cuncher cheated, and for the matter there isn't even a valid reason to suspect he did other than the fact that he won the game...Are these people the same who are convinced that bin laden is still alive?
Sniping a player is totally within the rules and is actually quite lulzy btw at what time does cuncher usually stream? I rarely catch him
On May 07 2011 08:12 awesomo0O wrote: Idra fans are starting to act like babies just like Idra is Theres no evidence whatsoever that cuncher cheated, and for the matter there isn't even a valid reason to suspect he did other than the fact that he won the game...Are these people the same who are convinced that bin laden is still alive?
Sniping a player is totally within the rules and is actually quite lulzy btw at what time does cuncher usually stream? I rarely catch him
It's quite random. I believe though that you can watch VODs of his stream on his Justin.tv page.
I am not an "IdrA" fan boy. I am not anyones fan boy. But everything I do, I like to take seriously, even if its relating to Starcraft.
I have nothing against you, as you can see from my post on your stream forum. I wish you luck in anything you do! :D
I cannot "prove" that you could see his screen or hear him talk. But you were logged into his stream chat during the entire game.
I think, with all the drama between you to (as entertaining as it is :D ) i think it would be very hard to resist not un-muting him.
BUT
The point of my post, where all this is coming from, is the screenshot you added to defend yourself. It made no sense to me when i seen it.
TL;DR The screen shot you attached showing you watching his stream was taken 40 minutes after the game, thus rendering the screenshot useless, and leaving us back to square one.
I respect you Cruncher, as I respect IdrA. But it was kinda shady.
Sign me up for sure! Even though i don't think hes the best player in the world, he is definitly better than 90% of people give him credit for! Gogo Cruncher!
Edit: Btw this whole "cheating" thing is absolutely ridiculous. Ive watched quite a few different player streams lately, and EVERYONE stream snipes pretty much. And the only "evidence" there is against cruncher in this case is that he was in the stream chat, and that he won a game.
Being in the stream chat is not indicative of anything other than possible stream sniping. So that only leaves us with winning a game. Afaik cruncher went for a fast nexus, and idra went for some sort of all-in. Even I know that idra has been punishing fast expands with various roach rushes vs P lately, so i can only assume cruncher knows as well. Also, i believe crucher actually scouted that idra had not expanded, and then threw down the extra cannons. This is something that even i would do in respone to Z 1 base play, and i think most people would do the same thing.
Idra fan-boys need to stop listening to everything idra says tbh, most of the time hes just a butt-hurt little kid that is venting his frustration. (I do think idra is both intelligent, and an awesome player, but he is still a kid).
On May 07 2011 08:34 DaggothReborn wrote: Alright.
Straight up.
I am not an "IdrA" fan boy. I am not anyones fan boy. But everything I do, I like to take seriously, even if its relating to Starcraft.
I have nothing against you, as you can see from my post on your stream forum. I wish you luck in anything you do! :D
I cannot "prove" that you could see his screen or hear him talk. But you were logged into his stream chat during the entire game.
I think, with all the drama between you to (as entertaining as it is :D ) i think it would be very hard to resist not un-muting him.
BUT
The point of my post, where all this is coming from, is the screenshot you added to defend yourself. It made no sense to me when i seen it.
TL;DR The screen shot you attached showing you watching his stream was taken 40 minutes after the game, thus rendering the screenshot useless, and leaving us back to square one.
I respect you Cruncher, as I respect IdrA. But it was kinda shady.
I'm curious, does anyone ever read when it comes to drama?
Cruncher did absolutely nothing shady, please read the post where he absolutely obliterated your middle school detective work.
On May 07 2011 06:16 travis wrote: So then WTF is your point? That the screenshot doesn't matter? Woopdy shit, no one ever said it did.
Umm...Cruncher did? Lol, Cruncher tried to use this as evidence to prove himself innocent, if you missed that post, I don't know what to tell you, otherwise you failed pretty hard there.
On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote: I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe.
The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again")
i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots.
i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in
go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3.
hint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5?
edit2: you guys can also go check my eu account, and see how often zergs do 1 base/2base all ins against me
edit3: you guys can also go check out my wc3 history, which i played for 4~ years, 2 which i played on top levels and attended multiple lans, playing top 3 in more than 1.
People all in you because you do a greedy turtle build. People who beat you, are either going to out multitask/macro you pretty easily later in the game, or come at you early while you are playing greedy, but before you start turtling. There is no doubt you are a mediocre pro right now, with better mechanics coupled with abusive strats, you could do a lot better.
On May 07 2011 06:16 travis wrote: So then WTF is your point? That the screenshot doesn't matter? Woopdy shit, no one ever said it did.
Umm...Cruncher did? Lol, Cruncher tried to use this as evidence to prove himself innocent, if you missed that post, I don't know what to tell you, otherwise you failed pretty hard there.
wow, seriously, just wow
how long does this have to go on
lets look at a quick timeline:
bullshit o'clock: some guy posts the screenshot as proof that cruncher was cheating
15 after bullshit: cruncher shows the screenshot and points out that it was muted and he was just trying to snipe idra, so it's definitely not proof he was cheating
On May 07 2011 08:34 DaggothReborn wrote: Alright.
Straight up.
I am not an "IdrA" fan boy. I am not anyones fan boy. But everything I do, I like to take seriously, even if its relating to Starcraft.
I have nothing against you, as you can see from my post on your stream forum. I wish you luck in anything you do! :D
I cannot "prove" that you could see his screen or hear him talk. But you were logged into his stream chat during the entire game.
I think, with all the drama between you to (as entertaining as it is :D ) i think it would be very hard to resist not un-muting him.
BUT
The point of my post, where all this is coming from, is the screenshot you added to defend yourself. It made no sense to me when i seen it.
TL;DR The screen shot you attached showing you watching his stream was taken 40 minutes after the game, thus rendering the screenshot useless, and leaving us back to square one.
I respect you Cruncher, as I respect IdrA. But it was kinda shady.
I'm curious, does anyone ever read when it comes to drama?
Cruncher did absolutely nothing shady, please read the post where he absolutely obliterated your middle school detective work.
I'm sorry if I have made you mad. I just wanted to prove to everyone that the screen shot he attached merely showed him with IdrAs stream muted nearly an hour after the game ended. It seemed as he played it off as proof that he wasn't watching his stream.
Maybe it's just me. But if I am playing vs IdrA, I wouldn't be logged in his stream during the game.
On May 07 2011 06:16 travis wrote: So then WTF is your point? That the screenshot doesn't matter? Woopdy shit, no one ever said it did.
Umm...Cruncher did? Lol, Cruncher tried to use this as evidence to prove himself innocent, if you missed that post, I don't know what to tell you, otherwise you failed pretty hard there.
GOD, HOW STUPID ARE YOU PEOPLE, SERIOUSLY
how long does this have to go on
lets look at a quick timeline:
bullshit o'clock: some guy posts the screenshot as proof that cruncher was cheating
15 after bullshit: cruncher shows the screenshot and points out that it was muted and he was just trying to snipe idra, so it's definitely not proof he was cheating
... understand now?
Stay classy man...
YOU just agreed with me, Cruncher showed the screenshot and claimed it was proof he wasn't cheating because it was muted 15 minutes later. There is no proof either way, I think the point you are missing is cruncher tried to claim it as proof of his innocence.
there is a very big difference between saying that something proves innocence, and saying that it doesn't prove guilt.
as for staying classy, do you not realize you are coming here and smearing your bullshit all over the walls of cruncher's fan club? you're making it smell like you, leave please
On May 07 2011 06:16 travis wrote: So then WTF is your point? That the screenshot doesn't matter? Woopdy shit, no one ever said it did.
Umm...Cruncher did? Lol, Cruncher tried to use this as evidence to prove himself innocent, if you missed that post, I don't know what to tell you, otherwise you failed pretty hard there.
wow, seriously, just wow
how long does this have to go on
lets look at a quick timeline:
bullshit o'clock: some guy posts the screenshot as proof that cruncher was cheating
15 after bullshit: cruncher shows the screenshot and points out that it was muted and he was just trying to snipe idra, so it's definitely not proof he was cheating
... understand now?
Sorry Travis. I did go back and read my post on page 82 of IdrAs stream thread. I did use the word "cheating". That was an error. I should of said something to the effect that "he was logged in before and after the game".
But I am afraid that you are confused. The picture i posted show him in IdrAs chat immediately after the game ended.
The screenshot that cruncher provided was merely a screenshot took an hour after the game took place.
But all in all, I am done talking about this here. The evidence i have provided is proof, and everyone can infer their own opinions how they wish. If you wish to have an educated discussion where you go into it with an open mind, feel free to message me.
cruncher was saying the image was bullshit and didn't mean anything, just like travis is saying.
I know i've watched his stream before and he's sniped idra before, but he's never cheated. I dont see any reason why he would do anything different this time.
daggoth, at no point did I care about the screenshot you posted, and I don't think cruncher did either. the screenshot cruncher posted was a reply to this one:
On May 07 2011 09:16 travis wrote: ok kvothe, here is a little lesson in logic
there is a very big difference between saying that something proves innocence, and saying that it doesn't prove guilt.
as for staying classy, do you not realize you are coming here and smearing your bullshit all over the walls of cruncher's fan club? you're making it smell like you, leave please
Here's a lesson in logic for you, there is no reason for him to show the screenshot, highlighting the fact Idra's stream was muted. What else was he trying to prove by bringing that up, he deliberately went out of his way to say the stream was muted. When that had zero bearing on proof or not, yet he tried to claim it as such.
Hey guys I heard that in a fanclub thread we generally talk about how we are fans of the player that the fanclub is associated with. But maybe I'm crazy.
Stream sniping has always been perfectly fine and encouraged most of the time. There are a few notable instances where it's not (ie. SixJaxTerran vs FXOSheth, and this one) but most of the time it's laughed off.
Is it technically wrong? Yes. I'm also guessing it's against the ToS for Blizzard as well (something related to using 3rd party programs to circumvent the matchmaking system), but at the end of the day Cruncher didn't do anything catastrophically bad, he was forced to edit his post (being that this is a first offense), and IdrA got a 2 day ban (a light sentence IMO).
IdrA completely went over the line and should have been punished, and IMO should probably be perma-banned for what he did to Chill(I'm not a mod and I make no decisions don't kill me). Either way keep up the good work Cruncher....I'm not a huge fan but that's only because you play protoss, but I can say you have accomplished one goal, IdrA has lost a fan.
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering.
First, here are some pictures.
In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod.
On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54
On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things..
Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that.
Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game.
Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay.
Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast.
As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA.
This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over.
And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard.
As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot?
What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over.
This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game.
What i think happened:
I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room.
You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended.
So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
Ladies and gentlemen, world's greatest detective.
That being said, I'm now a fan of cruncher. Anyone who gets Idra to temper tantrum this hard has to be a fairly legit guy to me.
CrunCher and Idra are both very good players and I like their competition. Truth is, no one really knows what they've done or what their reasons are. And no one has to prove their innocence. When you little scamps get together, you're worse than a sewing circle.
I do believe, I would like to watch a showmatch. But these guys have their own lives and I'll just have to content myself with CrunCher's PvZ on his stream. Can't complain. :D
Hahahaha! So pathetic. I have been following teamliquid for about half a year now and I love starcraft. I did not decide to make an account until now. Cruncher is not cheating rofl. IdrA all-ins all the time to compensate for his lack of skills (I mean, come on lol. ZvP on Tal'Darim Altar vs a Protoss you think is "shit" and you still think your best shot for a win is an all-in... rofl). He went forge expand, put 2cannons behind it (OH MY GOD. HE WENT FORGE EXPAND AND MADE CANNONS? HACKER! CHEATER! STREAMGHOSTER!) vs. a Zerg he knows is bad and often goes for all-ins (GSL4- 6pool with drones vs Jinro, NASL- Roach/Ling all-in vs Socke, Dreamhack- 6pool vs MC etc. etc. etc. Let's face it, he all-ins A-friggin-LOT). . Shortly after, IdrA predicts 2 stalkers comming out of the gateways to prove that he's ghosting. Wops, appears 2 zealots that got kited to death popped up. Surely Zealots are the counter to roaches . Now, what really makes me laugh is the stories people are making up. "He made 4-5 cannons, chronoed out 2stalkers, prepared like crazy without any vision of the all-in.".. like... shut up. If you wanna fanboy that socially disabled douchebag- fine. But stop jumpin on his bandwagon when he goes around calling everybody who goes forge expand "cheaters", just really fcking sad.
On May 07 2011 12:43 HealingproofX wrote: Hahahaha! So pathetic. I have been following teamliquid for about half a year now and I love starcraft. I did not decide to make an account until now. Cruncher is not cheating rofl. IdrA all-ins all the time to compensate for his lack of skills (I mean, come on lol. ZvP on Tal'Darim Altar vs a Protoss you think is "shit" and you still think your best shot for a win is an all-in... rofl). He went forge expand, put 2cannons behind it (OH MY GOD. HE WENT FORGE EXPAND AND MADE CANNONS? HACKER! CHEATER! STREAMGHOSTER!) vs. a Zerg he knows is bad and often goes for all-ins (GSL4- 6pool with drones vs Jinro, NASL- Roach/Ling all-in vs Socke, Dreamhack- 6pool vs MC etc. etc. etc. Let's face it, he all-ins A-friggin-LOT). . Shortly after, IdrA predicts 2 stalkers comming out of the gateways to prove that he's ghosting. Wops, appears 2 zealots that got kited to death popped up. Surely Zealots are the counter to roaches . Now, what really makes me laugh is the stories people are making up. "He made 4-5 cannons, chronoed out 2stalkers, prepared like crazy without any vision of the all-in.".. like... shut up. If you wanna fanboy that socially disabled douchebag- fine. But stop jumpin on his bandwagon when he goes around calling everybody who goes forge expand "cheaters", just really fcking sad.
Also, sign me up for the fanclub =)
If you followed TL for a year, you would realize that people like it when paragraphs are used.
Are the Idra fans implying that EVERY single person watching Cruncher's stream are all conspiring some elaborate plan when they say he muted Idra's stream?
The word of so many different people is more than enough evidence for me.
On May 07 2011 12:43 HealingproofX wrote: Hahahaha! So pathetic. I have been following teamliquid for about half a year now and I love starcraft. I did not decide to make an account until now. Cruncher is not cheating rofl. IdrA all-ins all the time to compensate for his lack of skills (I mean, come on lol. ZvP on Tal'Darim Altar vs a Protoss you think is "shit" and you still think your best shot for a win is an all-in... rofl). He went forge expand, put 2cannons behind it (OH MY GOD. HE WENT FORGE EXPAND AND MADE CANNONS? HACKER! CHEATER! STREAMGHOSTER!) vs. a Zerg he knows is bad and often goes for all-ins (GSL4- 6pool with drones vs Jinro, NASL- Roach/Ling all-in vs Socke, Dreamhack- 6pool vs MC etc. etc. etc. Let's face it, he all-ins A-friggin-LOT). . Shortly after, IdrA predicts 2 stalkers comming out of the gateways to prove that he's ghosting. Wops, appears 2 zealots that got kited to death popped up. Surely Zealots are the counter to roaches . Now, what really makes me laugh is the stories people are making up. "He made 4-5 cannons, chronoed out 2stalkers, prepared like crazy without any vision of the all-in.".. like... shut up. If you wanna fanboy that socially disabled douchebag- fine. But stop jumpin on his bandwagon when he goes around calling everybody who goes forge expand "cheaters", just really fcking sad.
Also, sign me up for the fanclub =)
Either you are trolling or you are just an idiot. Regardless, you should just leave. In fact, the last few pages of this thread shuld really just be burned... so much shit.
Here is what has been established:
1. There is no solid evidence to suggest anything other than stream-sniping
2. Neither player is especially concerned about this. Idra doesn't care about ladder games and is clearly a much more successful player than cruncher, no need for him to care either way. Cruncher has clearly stated that he did not cheat, and since there is no evidence to really suggest otherwise... can we drop this?
3. The only people who seem to still be involved in this are the fanboys and antifanboys of Idra. Just stop fucking talking about it.
Just for the record, I'm not a fan of either idra or cruncher, but i think cruncher is hilarious. Its funny because hes actually good enough to beat idra half the time also.
On May 07 2011 14:22 m3rciless wrote: Just for the record, I'm not a fan of either idra or cruncher, but i think cruncher is hilarious. Its funny because hes actually good enough to beat idra half the time also.
He is actually 3/20 with idra or something like that...
On May 07 2011 14:22 m3rciless wrote: Just for the record, I'm not a fan of either idra or cruncher, but i think cruncher is hilarious. Its funny because hes actually good enough to beat idra half the time also.
He is actually 3/20 with idra or something like that...
Pretty sure he has a positive winrate vs Idra No offence to Idra, but Cruncher is better.
On May 07 2011 14:22 m3rciless wrote: Just for the record, I'm not a fan of either idra or cruncher, but i think cruncher is hilarious. Its funny because hes actually good enough to beat idra half the time also.
He is actually 3/20 with idra or something like that...
Pretty sure he has a positive winrate vs Idra No offence to Idra, but Cruncher is better.
He does not, it's vastly in IdrAs favor. (Unless you only count tournaments where I think Cruncher has the edge)
On May 07 2011 14:22 m3rciless wrote: Just for the record, I'm not a fan of either idra or cruncher, but i think cruncher is hilarious. Its funny because hes actually good enough to beat idra half the time also.
He is actually 3/20 with idra or something like that...
Pretty sure he has a positive winrate vs Idra No offence to Idra, but Cruncher is better.
Cruncher better than idra ?
If it's not a troll, I think you should stop follow the scene...
On May 07 2011 21:43 HealingproofX wrote: Pretty sure Cruncher is dominating idra ^_^ If you disagree, please provide proof. Until then, Cruncher is just dominating IdrA
I'm sorry, horrible WoW players shouldn't even try trolling, especially in TL.
On May 07 2011 21:43 HealingproofX wrote: Pretty sure Cruncher is dominating idra ^_^ If you disagree, please provide proof. Until then, Cruncher is just dominating IdrA
I'm sorry, horrible WoW players shouldn't even try trolling, especially in TL.
I am reassured..
I could not beleave someone think cruncher > idra ):
Guys, dont feed the troll, an account with 3 posts, a name taht includes "proof" and calls people douchebag, he sure got banned on his other account and made this to keep talking shit.
This thread has doubled in size since the stream incident. Are any of you actually fans of cruncher or do you just come here to hate idra and troll people?
On May 08 2011 03:00 Loki57 wrote: This thread has doubled in size since the stream incident. Are any of you actually fans of cruncher or do you just come here to hate idra and troll people?
On May 07 2011 21:43 HealingproofX wrote: Pretty sure Cruncher is dominating idra ^_^ If you disagree, please provide proof. Until then, Cruncher is just dominating IdrA
I'm sorry, horrible WoW players shouldn't even try trolling, especially in TL.
I am reassured..
I could not beleave someone think cruncher > idra ):
Ladder games are meaningless. Who cares if you win or lose a ladder game? Literally nothing depends on it. Games testing someone's mental fortitude under pressure are a much better indicator of skill.
And as far as it goes, I think that Cruncher would beat Idra in most BoX series due to his ability to play on Idra's style and lack of willingness to adapt.
On May 07 2011 21:43 HealingproofX wrote: Pretty sure Cruncher is dominating idra ^_^ If you disagree, please provide proof. Until then, Cruncher is just dominating IdrA
I'm sorry, horrible WoW players shouldn't even try trolling, especially in TL.
I am reassured..
I could not beleave someone think cruncher > idra ):
Ladder games are meaningless. Who cares if you win or lose a ladder game? Literally nothing depends on it. Games testing someone's mental fortitude under pressure are a much better indicator of skill.
And as far as it goes, I think that Cruncher would beat Idra in most BoX series due to his ability to play on Idra's style and lack of willingness to adapt.
Um, they are both at 3-3 vs eachother in tournaments, and since the last time they played the strats Cruncher have used were nerfed and Idra has been on a tear, where as Cruncher hasn't done much. Don't see how you could think Cruncher could beat him a b.o w/e. (doesn't help he's 1-8 vs Idra on ladder too)
On May 07 2011 21:43 HealingproofX wrote: Pretty sure Cruncher is dominating idra ^_^ If you disagree, please provide proof. Until then, Cruncher is just dominating IdrA
I'm sorry, horrible WoW players shouldn't even try trolling, especially in TL.
I am reassured..
I could not beleave someone think cruncher > idra ):
Ladder games are meaningless. Who cares if you win or lose a ladder game? Literally nothing depends on it. Games testing someone's mental fortitude under pressure are a much better indicator of skill.
And as far as it goes, I think that Cruncher would beat Idra in most BoX series due to his ability to play on Idra's style and lack of willingness to adapt.
dont forget that the games in TSL were played post patch 1.3, after the patch most of the ladder games idra played with cruncher was nearly a win for idra. saying cruncher wasnt serious in the ladder games against idrA imo is just makeing exuses for his loses.
and you cant just say ladder games are meaningless, they are an essential practice method, if they were meaningless then why investing in them so much time and effort, not only by the players, but also by blizzard (like adding the grandmasters league and such).
On May 07 2011 21:43 HealingproofX wrote: Pretty sure Cruncher is dominating idra ^_^ If you disagree, please provide proof. Until then, Cruncher is just dominating IdrA
I'm sorry, horrible WoW players shouldn't even try trolling, especially in TL.
I am reassured..
I could not beleave someone think cruncher > idra ):
Ladder games are meaningless. Who cares if you win or lose a ladder game? Literally nothing depends on it. Games testing someone's mental fortitude under pressure are a much better indicator of skill.
And as far as it goes, I think that Cruncher would beat Idra in most BoX series due to his ability to play on Idra's style and lack of willingness to adapt.
dont forget that the games in TSL were played post patch 1.3, after the patch most of the ladder games idra played with cruncher was nearly a win for idra. saying cruncher wasnt serious in the ladder games against idrA imo is just makeing exuses for his loses.
and you cant just say ladder games are meaningless, they are an essential practice method, if they were meaningless then why investing in them so much time and effort, not only by the players, but also by blizzard (like adding the grandmasters league and such).
They're meaningless, no money is actually on the line. Ladder games are about practicing vs Opponents of a similar or better skill level. This is why grandmasters is implemented - Blizzard thought that they needed more skill level distinctions in order for grandmaster-level players to more frequently meet. If blizzard was handing out thousands of dollars to Grandmaster players for making top of the list then laddering would mean something. But #1 on a ladder means nothing, even Athene can do that.
People practice new builds all the time on the ladder, builds that they aren't sure of their effectiveness, etc. People aren't going to play to LOSE in a ladder, but they sometimes aren't playing with winning being the primary motivating factor. The one game of Idra vs Cruncher on ladder that I've seen was one where Cruncher did nothing but troll idra from the 5th minute of the game on, chatting instead of microing units and running up 1000+ minerals on two bases so that he could ask him if he was his best buddy.
Ladder games may be meaningless, and Cruncher may not have been actually cheating, but keeping a stream up while you play the person is a bad idea anyways. It means that he could have been cheating - maybe he was/maybe he wasn't, and we can't prove whether he did or didn't, but the fact that he COULD have been is enough that he should be wiser and close the stream when the game is starting.
Whether it's in a tournament or not, cheating is serious business if you're a professional because it affects your reputation. Whether Cruncher was cheating eor not cheating, he now has to deal with the reality that people are going to look at him differently, and even people who say "you can't prove anything" have to acknowledge that it might have happened.
I don't think he was cheating (not that it matters what I think) but I still think it's foolish to have someone's stream open while you play them.
On May 07 2011 10:00 Klogbert wrote: but at the end of the day Cruncher didn't do anything catastrophically bad, he was forced to edit his post (being that this is a first offense), and IdrA got a 2 day ban (a light sentence IMO).
On May 07 2011 10:00 Klogbert wrote: but at the end of the day Cruncher didn't do anything catastrophically bad, he was forced to edit his post (being that this is a first offense), and IdrA got a 2 day ban (a light sentence IMO).
what did cruncher do wrong? did I miss something?
trolled idras fanclub thread, essentially, after winning
On May 07 2011 12:43 HealingproofX wrote: Hahahaha! So pathetic. I have been following teamliquid for about half a year now and I love starcraft. I did not decide to make an account until now. Cruncher is not cheating rofl. IdrA all-ins all the time to compensate for his lack of skills (I mean, come on lol. ZvP on Tal'Darim Altar vs a Protoss you think is "shit" and you still think your best shot for a win is an all-in... rofl). He went forge expand, put 2cannons behind it (OH MY GOD. HE WENT FORGE EXPAND AND MADE CANNONS? HACKER! CHEATER! STREAMGHOSTER!) vs. a Zerg he knows is bad and often goes for all-ins (GSL4- 6pool with drones vs Jinro, NASL- Roach/Ling all-in vs Socke, Dreamhack- 6pool vs MC etc. etc. etc. Let's face it, he all-ins A-friggin-LOT). . Shortly after, IdrA predicts 2 stalkers comming out of the gateways to prove that he's ghosting. Wops, appears 2 zealots that got kited to death popped up. Surely Zealots are the counter to roaches . Now, what really makes me laugh is the stories people are making up. "He made 4-5 cannons, chronoed out 2stalkers, prepared like crazy without any vision of the all-in.".. like... shut up. If you wanna fanboy that socially disabled douchebag- fine. But stop jumpin on his bandwagon when he goes around calling everybody who goes forge expand "cheaters", just really fcking sad.
Also, sign me up for the fanclub =)
haha yea, I too had to make an account just for this xD I guess it's actually a good thing for TL lol
Sign me in, I love it when thinking players rape guys who just practice 24/7. He's relies purely on brains so he won't be around for too much, which is too bad, yet let us show some support. He needs it after IdrA got his whole family to troll him on tl :D
I actually watched Chruncher stream before he got any e-fame and I thought many other people did as well. So I imagined TL would like him for streaming and shit, and instead he gets a buttload of hate an jealousy. Oh well.
On May 08 2011 06:02 Salteador Neo wrote: I actually watched Chruncher stream before he got any e-fame and I thought many other people did as well. So I imagined TL would like him for streaming and shit, and instead he gets a buttload of hate an jealousy. Oh well.
The hate is because he isn't a creative player comparatively speaking.
On May 08 2011 06:02 Salteador Neo wrote: I actually watched Chruncher stream before he got any e-fame and I thought many other people did as well. So I imagined TL would like him for streaming and shit, and instead he gets a buttload of hate an jealousy. Oh well.
The hate is because he isn't a creative player comparatively speaking.
You mean compared to other creative NA toss like Incontrol or TT1?
Actually the variety in his play is one of Crunchers biggest strengths, so I am not sure what you are talking about.
On May 08 2011 05:31 CycoManiac wrote: Ladder games may be meaningless, and Cruncher may not have been actually cheating, but keeping a stream up while you play the person is a bad idea anyways. It means that he could have been cheating - maybe he was/maybe he wasn't, and we can't prove whether he did or didn't, but the fact that he COULD have been is enough that he should be wiser and close the stream when the game is starting.
Whether it's in a tournament or not, cheating is serious business if you're a professional because it affects your reputation. Whether Cruncher was cheating eor not cheating, he now has to deal with the reality that people are going to look at him differently, and even people who say "you can't prove anything" have to acknowledge that it might have happened.
I don't think he was cheating (not that it matters what I think) but I still think it's foolish to have someone's stream open while you play them.
Says who? Pros do it all the time, according to Tyler in another discussion. Please don't make things up when you aren't certain, and assume it's a "bad idea" just because it may be logical. While that may be so, you will make false assumptions.
Stream sniping isn't cheating is it? I like Idra as a player. But so many of his fans take him way too seriously : / Guys it's just one game. No need to go all gungho to defend someone who doesn't need defending.
As for the ban, that's between idra and TL. Not idrafans/idra and TL. None of our business. As far as i'm concerned, Cruncher is a good player; he won an entire TSL qualifier. IMO that's harder than actually playing in the TSL. The guy deserves all the props that he gets.
Cruncher is a good player but many people including me hates what he has done to the mu with the voidray colossi build and that is where all the hate is coming from.
Did Cruncher get eliminated from the IGN pro league 2 qualifiers for not showing up? Just curious, says he lost to Luckyfool? Anyways I think cruncher is great, he is on par with Silver and Masq.
On May 08 2011 03:00 Loki57 wrote: This thread has doubled in size since the stream incident. Are any of you actually fans of cruncher or do you just come here to hate idra and troll people?
0/10's, 0/10's everywhere.jpg
To be fair, 90% of the content in this thread is Idra-related. They're all from Idra haters, or from Idra defenders. This was true even before the cheating/sniping debate began. In fact, this entire "fan club" began exactly at the moment Idra lost to Cruncher in the TSL3 --- read all the posts in the first few pages. It would be fair to say that this "fan club" would not exist at all if it wasn't for Idra.
It's a bit disingenuous to complain about all the Idra discussions in Cruncher's fan club, when ironically this "fan club" has more to do with Idra than Cruncher himself. It's a place where Idra haters and Idra defenders wage their little wars, and Cruncher himself is just some guy who got caught in between.
If mods pared this thread down to posts only from non-Idra content.... you'd have maybe 2 pages, not 27. And half of what little content remains would be talking about Artosis rather than Cruncher.
Hey folks! I just recently got my live stream up and running at http://www.justin.tv/joshsuth and an anonymous donor has decided to help me get some content up as soon as possible!
Who: Root.drewbie(T) and coL.CrunCher(P)
What: A best of 5 series being played for $50! Win three games, win $50, that's all there is to it. =)
When: (Tonight!) Tuesday, May 10th, at 8:00 p.m. EDT, 5:00 p.m. PDT, and 2 a.m. (May 11th) CEST!
The map pool will be the same as the TSL 3: Crevasse, Cross Fire SE, Shakuras Plateau, Tal'Darim Altar, Xel'Naga Caverns, Metalopolis, and Terminus RE. The MLG versions of Shakuras, Xel'Naga, and Metalopolis will be used to disallow close spawning positions. The rest will be the GSL versions as published by Szomoru on North America. We'll start on Cross Fire SE and the loser will pick the next map!
Come join us tonight at the time listed above for some good old fashioned showmatch action between two of North America's best players. Drewbie will be featured for this week and the next at around the same time in showmatches, and the VODs will end up on my YouTube channel, http://www.youtube.com/AskJoshy
Very great style of PvZ, you definitely have potential. Just get out of the way of fan wars lol =D Hope your reputation cleans up and everyone forgets in a couple of months! I try to mimic your Void Ray Colossi style but I always get roflstomped by good Zerg players that max out so fast and attack me.
I think that CrunCher has a very distinct playstyle, it's very Wc3-esce in my opinion. People think it's cheesy/abusive in Sc2. You need to understand that it's a style that works and nets him wins, it's what Progaming is all about.
On May 13 2011 10:35 GlocKomA wrote: I think that CrunCher has a very distinct playstyle, it's very Wc3-esce in my opinion. People think it's cheesy/abusive in Sc2. You need to understand that it's a style that works and nets him wins, it's what Progaming is all about.
I don't think that most detractors actually "think" that. They're just imitating Idra.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
Oh, so you've heard the cast? He insulted him? I was under the impression that it hasn't been broadcasted yet, unless you're clairvoyant.
On May 13 2011 10:35 GlocKomA wrote: I think that CrunCher has a very distinct playstyle, it's very Wc3-esce in my opinion. People think it's cheesy/abusive in Sc2. You need to understand that it's a style that works and nets him wins, it's what Progaming is all about.
I don't think that most detractors actually "think" that. They're just imitating Idra.
No, they probably do "think" that. I can't say anything about what that style is like in the context of WC3, but as an old broodwar player I definitely see it as cheesy/turtle-y. It doesn't mean I hate him for it, but other styles are definitely more... i guess, likable?
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
Oh, so you've heard the cast? He insulted him? I was under the impression that it hasn't been broadcasted yet, unless you're clairvoyant.
On May 13 2011 10:35 GlocKomA wrote: I think that CrunCher has a very distinct playstyle, it's very Wc3-esce in my opinion. People think it's cheesy/abusive in Sc2. You need to understand that it's a style that works and nets him wins, it's what Progaming is all about.
I don't think that most detractors actually "think" that. They're just imitating Idra.
No, they probably do "think" that. I can't say anything about what that style is like in the context of WC3, but as an old broodwar player I definitely see it as cheesy/turtle-y. It doesn't mean I hate him for it, but other styles are definitely more... i guess, likable?
Sorry, I don't believe its genuine because he does not cheese all the time. He actually does a variety of things.
And he doesn't turtle all the time when he is not cheesing.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
Oh, so you've heard the cast? He insulted him? I was under the impression that it hasn't been broadcasted yet, unless you're clairvoyant.
Wow, jeez, wow, Idra just insulted him. Who could have predicted that.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
That's completely irrational. He has every right to express his opinion, it's no different than Cruncher expressing his.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
That's completely irrational. He has every right to express his opinion, it's no different than Cruncher expressing his.
Oh, god seriously? Good casters moderate what they say on air. Competent organizations prevent people from "expressing" their opinions when their opinions are detestable.
This is not a news organization trying to figure out what Idra thinks. We already know what Idra thinks, about Cruncher.
It is completely irrational to suggest that that sort of behavior is acceptable in any serious tournament.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
That's completely irrational. He has every right to express his opinion, it's no different than Cruncher expressing his.
Oh, god seriously? Good casters moderate what they say on air. Competent organizations prevent people from "expressing" their opinions when their opinions are detestable.
This is not a news organization trying to figure out what Idra thinks. We already know what Idra thinks, about Cruncher.
It is completely irrational to suggest that that sort of behavior is acceptable in any serious tournament.
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
That's completely irrational. He has every right to express his opinion, it's no different than Cruncher expressing his.
Oh, god seriously? Good casters moderate what they say on air. Competent organizations prevent people from "expressing" their opinions when their opinions are detestable.
This is not a news organization trying to figure out what Idra thinks. We already know what Idra thinks, about Cruncher.
It is completely irrational to suggest that that sort of behavior is acceptable in any serious tournament.
I didn't get to see the cast, but it couldn't have been any worse than Gretorp calling barracks "bin laden killers".
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
That's completely irrational. He has every right to express his opinion, it's no different than Cruncher expressing his.
Oh, god seriously? Good casters moderate what they say on air. Competent organizations prevent people from "expressing" their opinions when their opinions are detestable.
This is not a news organization trying to figure out what Idra thinks. We already know what Idra thinks, about Cruncher.
It is completely irrational to suggest that that sort of behavior is acceptable in any serious tournament.
I didn't get to see the cast, but it couldn't have been any worse than Gretorp calling barracks "bin laden killers".
are you serious? hes making a joke about a world hated terrorist by playing on the president's name. Versus one of the casters of a tournament trashing a player .
And I totally agree with Evandi, very unprofessional. Having a caster call a competitor "a flash in the pan" and fat, etc. and then not saying. "No, greg. stop it. Act like an adult" just makes NASL adopt his statements and that makes their organization fail and they look like a "flash in the pan."
Also -to try and say that it's free speech is not relevant. It's unprofessional. Imagine if an announcer at a MLB game said, "I saw this player at a bar, and his wife was an ugly, dumb, ____". Think they'd put up with it? Would you?
greg/idra acts like a spoiled jealous little girl when he sees Cruncher play. On some level, I guess I enjoyed seeing the awkward uncomfortable look on greg's bug-life face when Cruncher out-micro'd and out-played Ensnare but ultimately, it is just disappointing. I'm not watching NASL anymore.
Respect for Cruncher. I will just watch his steam and replays. Peace.
On May 14 2011 04:10 Mob.scene wrote: GGs vs. Ensnare Cruncher. Classic.
And I totally agree with Evandi, very unprofessional. Having a caster call a competitor "a flash in the pan" and fat, etc. and then not saying. "No, greg. stop it. Act like an adult" just makes NASL adopt his statements and that makes their organization fail and they look like a "flash in the pan."
Also -to try and say that it's free speech is not relevant. It's unprofessional. Imagine if an announcer at a MLB game said, "I saw this player at a bar, and his wife was an ugly, dumb, ____". Think they'd put up with it? Would you?
greg/idra acts like a spoiled jealous little girl when he sees Cruncher play. On some level, I guess I enjoyed seeing the awkward uncomfortable look on greg's bug-life face when Cruncher out-micro'd and out-played Ensnare but ultimately, it is just disappointing. I'm not watching NASL anymore.
Respect for Cruncher. I will just watch his steam and replays. Peace.
well beside the introduction idra did a good casting of the matches, even admitting that cruncher played well , the introduction was to add some spice in the show as it was intended but the overall casting was hateful or nasty towards cruncher
On May 13 2011 10:23 evandi wrote: Very professional of NASL to have Idra cast Cruncher...
He's casting all 50 players buddy, get your head out of the gutter.
So? What is your point? Obviously if Idra is going to insult one of the players he either shouldn't be casting at all or should be removed for this series.
That's completely irrational. He has every right to express his opinion, it's no different than Cruncher expressing his.
Oh, god seriously? Good casters moderate what they say on air. Competent organizations prevent people from "expressing" their opinions when their opinions are detestable.
This is not a news organization trying to figure out what Idra thinks. We already know what Idra thinks, about Cruncher.
It is completely irrational to suggest that that sort of behavior is acceptable in any serious tournament.
If you believe this you should probably stop supporting the NASL by watching it. And one day when you start your own league you will instruct your casters not to do it. But in terms of real criticisms you have to answer is it: bad for the league? bad for the organizations? bad for eSports?
I think if you answer honestly you would be hard-pressed to answer yes honestly to any of those questions. Controversy is good, lack of controversy is boring.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
When someone BM's the most popular and famous foreigner out there right now people get pretty pissed off. It's not a case of one random thing in a tournament, it's a case of him just trying to piss off Idra as much as possible and stream snipe him and all that in every waking moment of his life. That's probably why people hate him, myself included.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
When someone BM's the most popular and famous foreigner out there right now people get pretty pissed off. It's not a case of one random thing in a tournament, it's a case of him just trying to piss off Idra as much as possible and stream snipe him and all that in every waking moment of his life. That's probably why people hate him, myself included.
The irony is awe inspiring.
Also, I haven't ever seen cruncher say anything negative to or about Idra (which frankly is amazing).
"every waking moment of his life". lol, what a joke
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
People are getting so uptight...Every little thing is HUGE bm nowadays. It seems like everyone wont be happy till we are all sitting around a campfire singing Kumbaya. Alot of these peoples heads would expload if they had to play on the old USeast and USwest bnet, now THAT was bm.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
When someone BM's the most popular and famous foreigner out there right now people get pretty pissed off. It's not a case of one random thing in a tournament, it's a case of him just trying to piss off Idra as much as possible and stream snipe him and all that in every waking moment of his life. That's probably why people hate him, myself included.
The irony is awe inspiring.
Also, I haven't ever seen cruncher say anything negative to or about Idra (which frankly is amazing).
"every waking moment of his life". lol, what a joke
Go read the post game interview with crunch after his match with Idra in the TSL. Also do you watch his stream? Usually says some BM stuff ,toward idra, on there but not a big deal its his stream can say what he wants.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
My point was more:
Anti-Idra fans try to portray Cruncher as literally the best protoss in NA. Idra Fans portray his as the worst professional player in the game
Truth is, he's neither. And he's not close to either.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
My point was more:
Anti-Idra fans try to portray Cruncher as literally the best protoss in NA. Idra Fans portray his as the worst professional player in the game
Truth is, he's neither. And he's not close to either.
And this is just wrong. There are some anti-Idra trolls here, but I would claim there are much more pro-Idra trolls. Just look at the people with their first post in this thread.
Have a look at Crunchers stream thread, there were so many people that liked his play before he beat Idra. Or look at the TSL qualifier thread. I myself called him second best protoss in NA in the NASL invite thread, before he beat Idra. It clearly had nothing to do with Idra. Now thats a personal opinion of course, but I stand by it. Many would agree that he is the best protoss in USA, so why not be a fan of him?
Yes Cruncher got his fan club after beating Idra, but so did many others after TSL wins, like Adelscott after beating MVP and Thorzain after beating Fruitdealer.
Basically there were only positive comments about Cruncher until he beat Idra. From then on he was suddenly "bad" and played "abusive" and "cheesy" and what not. WTF? And this is clearly a consequence of Idras comments. I bet he is laughing his ass off about the influence he has on all the trolls. All Cruncher did "wrong" was talking back after all of Idras BM and after beating him. Most people at the time liked though that he didnt put up with all this nonsense when you have a look at the TSL threads.
Aynway I dont think Cruncher cares much about all of this, he always seemed pretty relaxed on his stream. It also helped him to become more known. But I myself feel bad after reading all the troll comments. It makes me feel somewhat embarassed for being a fellow sc2 fan.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
My point was more:
Anti-Idra fans try to portray Cruncher as literally the best protoss in NA. Idra Fans portray his as the worst professional player in the game
Truth is, he's neither. And he's not close to either.
And this is just wrong. There are some anti-Idra trolls here, but I would claim there are much more pro-Idra trolls. Just look at the people with their first post in this thread.
Have a look at Crunchers stream thread, there were so many people that liked his play before he beat Idra. Or look at the TSL qualifier thread. I myself called him second best protoss in NA in the NASL invite thread, before he beat Idra. It clearly had nothing to do with Idra. Now thats a personal opinion of course, but I stand by it. Many would agree that he is the best protoss in USA, so why not be a fan of him?
Yes Cruncher got his fan club after beating Idra, but so did many others after TSL wins, like Adelscott after beating MVP and Thorzain after beating Fruitdealer.
Basically there were only positive comments about Cruncher until he beat Idra. From then on he was suddenly "bad" and played "abusive" and "cheesy" and what not. WTF? And this is clearly a consequence of Idras comments. I bet he is laughing his ass off about the influence he has on all the trolls. All Cruncher did "wrong" was talking back after all of Idras BM and after beating him. Most people at the time liked though that he didnt put up with all this nonsense when you have a look at the TSL threads.
Aynway I dont think Cruncher cares much about all of this, he always seemed pretty relaxed on his stream. It also helped him to become more known. But I myself feel bad after reading all the troll comments. It makes me feel somewhat embarassed for being a fellow sc2 fan.
Really? His stream tripled in popularity after the whole IdrA affair. Why is the front page littered with IdrA related material? I'm not arguing against Cruncher, but as it happens, a huge portion of his "fanbase" is Idra-haters. You can argue all you want. But when Cruncher wins a series, he gets 3-5 posts in this thread. When he does something IdrA related, bam 3-5 if not more pages.
I guess I'm arguing this is just a bad fanclub. It'd be a lot better if this was renamed to the Anti-Idra Fanclub or prefferable deleted and another was made for Cruncher.
It doesn't matter if Cruncher goes 0-100 in his next 100 games or wins 10 GSLs in a row, at this point, it's just a battleground.
all this pointless drama between pro idra and anti idra fanboys gives me more reason to start thinking that SC2's community is a bunch of whiney 12 year olds
idra hates cruncher so what, doesn't mean you need to hate cruncher just because idra hates him / like cruncher because cruncher hates idra
On May 14 2011 08:18 askTeivospy wrote: all this pointless drama between pro idra and anti idra fanboys gives me more reason to start thinking that SC2's community is a bunch of whiney 12 year olds
idra hates cruncher so what, doesn't mean you need to hate cruncher just because idra hates him / like cruncher because cruncher hates idra
You make a wonderful point except for the fact that you KNOW the SC2 fanbase isn't a bunch of whiny 12 year olds because that would make you a whiny 12 year old.
And yes, we don't have to hate Cruncher because IdrA hates him but we do because we like IdrA and think he's hilarious and awesome so we like agreeing with his views which, currently, are that Cruncher is a total faggot.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
My point was more:
Anti-Idra fans try to portray Cruncher as literally the best protoss in NA. Idra Fans portray his as the worst professional player in the game
Truth is, he's neither. And he's not close to either.
And this is just wrong. There are some anti-Idra trolls here, but I would claim there are much more pro-Idra trolls. Just look at the people with their first post in this thread.
Have a look at Crunchers stream thread, there were so many people that liked his play before he beat Idra. Or look at the TSL qualifier thread. I myself called him second best protoss in NA in the NASL invite thread, before he beat Idra. It clearly had nothing to do with Idra. Now thats a personal opinion of course, but I stand by it. Many would agree that he is the best protoss in USA, so why not be a fan of him?
Yes Cruncher got his fan club after beating Idra, but so did many others after TSL wins, like Adelscott after beating MVP and Thorzain after beating Fruitdealer.
Basically there were only positive comments about Cruncher until he beat Idra. From then on he was suddenly "bad" and played "abusive" and "cheesy" and what not. WTF? And this is clearly a consequence of Idras comments. I bet he is laughing his ass off about the influence he has on all the trolls. All Cruncher did "wrong" was talking back after all of Idras BM and after beating him. Most people at the time liked though that he didnt put up with all this nonsense when you have a look at the TSL threads.
Aynway I dont think Cruncher cares much about all of this, he always seemed pretty relaxed on his stream. It also helped him to become more known. But I myself feel bad after reading all the troll comments. It makes me feel somewhat embarassed for being a fellow sc2 fan.
Really? His stream tripled in popularity after the whole IdrA affair. Why is the front page littered with IdrA related material? I'm not arguing against Cruncher, but as it happens, a huge portion of his "fanbase" is Idra-haters. You can argue all you want. But when Cruncher wins a series, he gets 3-5 posts in this thread. When he does something IdrA related, bam 3-5 if not more pages.
I guess I'm arguing this is just a bad fanclub. It'd be a lot better if this was renamed to the Anti-Idra Fanclub or prefferable deleted and another was made for Cruncher.
It doesn't matter if Cruncher goes 0-100 in his next 100 games or wins 10 GSLs in a row, at this point, it's just a battleground.
Just to expand on this, this "fan" club doesn't even have the team cruncher plays for or any other personal outside info about him other than his real life name. The OP is littered with IdrA pictures and this entire thread has literally just turned into a cesspool of people trolling each other. I'd heavily support the option to just close this thread and actually have a proper one made for him so his actual FANS can praise/talk about him there instead of all the post-TSL and stream-sniping atrocity that this thread has turned into.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
When someone BM's the most popular and famous foreigner out there right now people get pretty pissed off. It's not a case of one random thing in a tournament, it's a case of him just trying to piss off Idra as much as possible and stream snipe him and all that in every waking moment of his life. That's probably why people hate him, myself included.
The irony is awe inspiring.
Also, I haven't ever seen cruncher say anything negative to or about Idra (which frankly is amazing).
"every waking moment of his life". lol, what a joke
You should watch the games on IdrA's stream when he plays cruncher. He outplays him totally while cruncher is trying to troll/bm him.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
My point was more:
Anti-Idra fans try to portray Cruncher as literally the best protoss in NA. Idra Fans portray his as the worst professional player in the game
Truth is, he's neither. And he's not close to either.
On May 14 2011 05:48 GeneralissimoNero wrote: I'm sure this fan club will go a long way, supporting one of the most hated players in eSports.
I don't know why people hate him, he seems to have become the bad guy ... I'm not sure its justified.
Because this isn't actually a Cruncher fan club. It's an Idra-hate club. The fans that don't like IdrA are trying to rally behind Cruncher, so all the hate gets directed at him.
I happen to love idra's play, and I love his analysis. I certainly don't hate him. But he can be a ridiculous whiny asshole, and a lot of his fans tend to be equally whiny and even more ridiculous.
Also, cruncher is a great player, and he's demonstrated it time and time again.
My point was more:
Anti-Idra fans try to portray Cruncher as literally the best protoss in NA. Idra Fans portray his as the worst professional player in the game
Truth is, he's neither. And he's not close to either.
this is such a true post. completely agree. I think it would be a bit foolish to say he is one of the best NA protoss, give it a few months, see how he does at some MLG's etc and in NASL.
Just got done watching CrunCher's macro games vs MoMaN in NASL week 7 day 2... daaaaamn man! CrunCher out expo'd the zerg and defended the mass ling roach!
He seemed to make a ninja expo's in the other mains at the ~time the zerg was taking his 3rd. Then going on to make his fourth, which looked like his third because it was at the normal time and location. HOW!? does he defend!?
i saw cannons... i saw zerg not attacking...
was MoMaN outclassed? or did CrunCher break PvZ while no one was looking?
On May 27 2011 12:56 CoffeeToss wrote: Just got done watching CrunCher's macro games vs MoMaN in NASL week 7 day 2... daaaaamn man! CrunCher out expo'd the zerg and defended the mass ling roach!
He seemed to make a ninja expo's in the other mains at the ~time the zerg was taking his 3rd. Then going on to make his fourth, which looked like his third because it was at the normal time and location. HOW!? does he defend!?
i saw cannons... i saw zerg not attacking...
was MoMaN outclassed? or did CrunCher break PvZ while no one was looking?
No, Cruncher didn't break anything because you can't make revolutionary play with deathballs and sub-par opponents. Cruncher just plays like any other NA protoss and gets a deathball with a few HT's or voidrays and attacks. It has nothing to do with skill, just standard play by an average NA player which doesn't really say alot about how good he is.
i think cruncher is an excellent player!!! but i think the death ball is soooo boring to watch nowadays. (which makes it had to root for a protoss when they play this style) it is almost as worst as MMM for terran.
i think cruncher would be much more accepted by the community if he throw in some "special tactics" if you will.
All the negative Cruncher comments really piss me off. People in Master thinks that it gives them a free pass to talk trash. People really have no idea the ammount of skill and practice that go into playing like Cruncher. I've seen first hand the different skill levels that are in SC2- and their are many. The skill ceiling is quite high- and Cruncher easily represents well within the top 1%.
Anyone who talks shit should be forced to play Cruncher in some kinna TL Attack. See what the real difference is between "high masters" and top 200 players. It's huge, trust me. Me and a few of my "high masters" friends have been consistently stomped out by players like Kawaii, Machine, Ryze, Azz and others, when we are fortunate to get a few games in with these types. As in like, 100% of the time, doing any strategy they feel like. Criticism of both players and personalities on the internet is always so, so overblown.
Just a little bit of a nod is needed to counteract all the bullshit this guy gets, I feel.
On May 29 2011 18:30 cursor wrote: All the negative Cruncher comments really piss me off. People in Master thinks that it gives them a free pass to talk trash. People really have no idea the ammount of skill and practice that go into playing like Cruncher. I've seen first hand the different skill levels that are in SC2- and their are many. The skill ceiling is quite high- and Cruncher easily represents well within the top 1%.
Anyone who talks shit should be forced to play Cruncher in some kinna TL Attack. See what the real difference is between "high masters" and top 200 players. It's huge, trust me. Me and a few of my "high masters" friends have been consistently stomped out by players like Kawaii, Machine, Ryze, Azz and others, when we are fortunate to get a few games in with these types. As in like, 100% of the time, doing any strategy they feel like. Criticism of both players and personalities on the internet is always so, so overblown.
Just a little bit of a nod is needed to counteract all the bullshit this guy gets, I feel.
really good post
from the neutral point of view I think the whole hate on Cruncher is just a farce.
Im not particular fan of Cruncher playstyle, however very few people has balls to play "Idra" on Idra himself. And thats the farce i mentioned, Idra fanboys cannot comprehend that the one who lost the battle of wits was Idra not Cruncher, than the defensive mechanisms of Idra's worst troll-fans awaken to find any holes they can exploit (oh look he was ghosting, he is using abusive play, he is trash). But guess who was the one who first spoke these things, it was none other than idra himself. Thats called manipulation.
Idra said in TSL interview :"Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show."
Yet he is playing the card of personality attacks all over, not being able to just say in that particular match i lost, he was better or i played bad.
Believe me or not but i would watch any idra match over cruncher match, i find idra's play brilliant in its own way but the whole thing is just too childish to be even funny anymore.
On May 29 2011 18:30 cursor wrote: All the negative Cruncher comments really piss me off. People in Master thinks that it gives them a free pass to talk trash. People really have no idea the ammount of skill and practice that go into playing like Cruncher. I've seen first hand the different skill levels that are in SC2- and their are many. The skill ceiling is quite high- and Cruncher easily represents well within the top 1%.
Anyone who talks shit should be forced to play Cruncher in some kinna TL Attack. See what the real difference is between "high masters" and top 200 players. It's huge, trust me. Me and a few of my "high masters" friends have been consistently stomped out by players like Kawaii, Machine, Ryze, Azz and others, when we are fortunate to get a few games in with these types. As in like, 100% of the time, doing any strategy they feel like. Criticism of both players and personalities on the internet is always so, so overblown.
Just a little bit of a nod is needed to counteract all the bullshit this guy gets, I feel.
that a funny stance to have about e-sports or sports in general. do you realize how many ppl talk shit about pro basketball player like Dwyane wade? or how much European "soccer" fan talk soooo much trash about the actual pros. i can garrantee you none of them are on there level when it comes to basketball or soccer. so why is it that someone who probably doesn't even play starcraft or is a lesser player, stupid because they critique players? huh...
as a side note.. i live in Texas (where ppl think about nothing but god and football) you better believe that EVERYONE has an opinion on how much Tony Romo (starting quarterback for Dallas cowboys) sucks.
It would be cool if he went to Korea, I imagine he could be very good if he played starcraft fulltime in a practice house, since he does very well off just laddering as it is.
Really nice run through the open bracket and really far into the championship bracket! Hope you come back for a similar run or better next time and get yourself a seed!
hey cruncher, im new to SC but would just like to say thx because ur stream is awesome, i was watching the other night 4v4 when u guys lost to peter and was seriously crying i was laughing so hard, keep up the good work GL HF
Congrats to Cruncher taking the North American Champions Trophy over Catz! Anyone know where I can find the VODs or Replays for this tournament? I couldn't find anything in the tourney section.
Anyone remember what tournament it was where CrunCher played SeleCT sometime last week or so? Those games were pretty good, was wondering where I could find them.
On August 02 2011 14:50 CrunCher wrote: hey guys, thanks for the support. <3 to all the fans. you guys make it awesome
hope i can do better at my next event!
Hey been a long time fan definitely #1 toss on NA server. I had a couple questions that you or someone else might be able to answer.
you had two pretty good runs through the open bracket even getting the seed this time. Do you think you might have qualified for pool play next time without going through the open bracket.
secondly do you ever do coaching and if so what are the rates
On August 02 2011 14:50 CrunCher wrote: hey guys, thanks for the support. <3 to all the fans. you guys make it awesome
hope i can do better at my next event!
yeah, well making it through the open bracket was pretty sick and quite a accomplishment since i don't think anyone would of predicted it given the players.
Hey man i just posted on your stream thread but now that i think about it it's more likely you check this thread more.
I just wanted to say that you are a great player and I'm really sorry about those assholes in the crowd at MLG. Congratulations on your amazing run. Keep crunching them!
I have to admit I wasent a fan at start of TSL3 but the more I watched him play and get BM:d by idrA the more I liked him. Welcome back Cruncher! And hope you do well.
sign me up, actually been a fan since i managed to get a replay of him (pre tsl3) and saw some sick storm drops/warpins as well as a lot of other solid play that just had the aura of a high level starcrafter
welcome back buddy and best of luck adjusting to the new state of the game
Top Protoss play and handled the 'idra' situation with pure class.
I find it hilarious and predictable that some in the SC2 community calling Cruncher's play 'abusive' yet , this is exactly how IMMvp won his last GSL. Go figure.
sorry to bumb this thread, but this is a fan club,
i just wanted to know what happen to cruncher that he never return to starcraft? i think the way protoss is played on hots would do better for his style.
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/5/51/Cruncher.jpg)
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By Korred
I need more CrunCher!!
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