The MorroW Fan Club

On December 19 2010 10:47 MorroW wrote:
the reason we see so many upsets and such a low win precentage of the top players is because its such a new game so daily new builds and timings come which just throws them offguard forcing them to learn new things

also that the game is new so its not balanced and top players could lose to underdogs for that reason aswell

in sc2 the key part is to have good scouting and see everything thats coming and be ready for everything, most street fighting games u can see everything the opponent is doing so that part is completely different

but ye you cant expect gods like flash or the street fighter top players to exist in sc2 just yet because players need at least another year to figure out more about the game so they can win and play solid

the reason many players talk about "he doesnt deserve a win" etc could be because they are abusing something thats broken in the game or just relying on luck like i also mentioned about the lack of scouting possibilities

im not taking any credits away from anyone who wins alot in sc2. if you get to finals of gsl you clearly know the state of the game and at the moment you know how to play it

i think the reason older starcraft 1 talk so much about who is real players and who are just abusive ppl who dont deserve wins is that they come from sc1 where the game was pretty much figured out so so much came down to detail scouting macro micro mechanics just overall playing beautifully perfect and calculated. when they see players come to top 4 without having an astonishing macro or wellprepered gameplan or perfected gamestructure they cant really approve too much of it since that was a sign of weak and cheesy players in sc1

if you figure out a way "abuse" ur way to top4 in gsl i say cheers to this man is brilliant because its not easy to find broken or imbalanced things to abuse in the game. to do so u need to have prepared and practiced insanely much to figure out the "flaws" in the game that u can use to ur advantage.

now im not talking that any players did this or so im just saying this is the general idea sc1 players think of ppl who dont shine on the qualities which were most important in sc1

id just overall say that its alot more so luck than imbalanced at the state of the game we have now. the maps just scream coinflip because some positions favor some race heavily vise versa could even be on same map...

so yea, short rushdistances with lack of scouting possibilties and a huge variety of opening build orders. its pretty obvious your gonna end up with a dice fest imho

when we get more welldesigned maps that are properly designed for macro games i promise u we will see less of the "wrong player won". majority of the times i do think its pretty stupid to say something like that in general tho



he says the issue is luck

you say if you reduce the luck the actual balance of the game will be more apperent, well whats wrong with that. reduce the luck and lets see if warpgates was imba and then we can work on the balance.
i really dont see how blizzard can even begin to try to balance some things when we see so many coinflip situations in starcraft 2. while when they get crosspos on metalopolis is where they actually can draw conclusions from.

a game thats based on scouting needs possibilities to scout whats necessarily and enough time gap to make it possible to adapt and respond accordingly. most of times in sc2 you cant scout something and once u can its too late anyways, i dont see how they think when they have so small maps :/

On April 29 2011 17:58 MorroW wrote:

there are differnt types of 3warpgate expansions. 1 3warpgate expand is alot different from another. so much depends on how greedy they are with it. but the original 3warpgate expand with forge in natural and cannon behind it is as safe as its gets

protosses has been using the medigame to their advantage by saying, hey zerg never allins me so i can go and fake push every single game, i can delay my forge 10 seconds, or i can delay my next wave of stalkers just to get my stargate quicker. these little timings is called cutting corners to get ahead unless zerg actually allins on you.
and this is exactly how alicia played it, but not only that, he macroed poorly and executed even worse

and losiras build is using the "new" medigame if i can call it that where he says, ok protosses (and alicia) cuts corners these days cause we havent been allining them alot. so im just gonna make this timing attack that only in theory works if they are cutting corners and/or executes badly

this series i saw both take risks both games, by playing mindgames instead of playing it safe. thats why im telling you guys that this thread shouldnt be called "future of pvz" or so.
you should just be impressed by losiras play the way he predicted the toss to cut corners (i dont think he predicted alicia to execute poorly so it worked alot better than he thought i think) and you should rethink alicia as a player if you think hes this solid and great protoss user really...

this build losira did has clear weaknesses and i dont blame him for it and thats the only point i wanted to make

heres a tip for most of u who watched zvp. when u see toss 3warpgate expo and follow up with a stargate and rallys his first voidray to zergs 3rd base instead of moving it in the direct path to the zerg (so you can catch possible roach attacks) it just means hes playing risky.
also another thing to point out if toss 3warpgate expands and puts his forge in his main hes being alittle risky, but more so he puts it there so zerg cant scout it, which gives zerg the impression of a possible cancel nexus into 4-5gates, which the "counter" to that is exactly what losira did, mass units like crazy. basically alicia encouraged him both games to mass units and then he wasnt ready or couldnt even figure out himself that it was coming, twice...
alicia didnt "force" zerg to mass units to this extend but he invited him to do it, without even knowing he was. losira was just a much better player than alicia in every way this series. and i think these games had really much to do with them as players rather than the matchup itself

On April 20 2011 18:23 MorroW wrote:
theory zvp
i think its a combination with 2 things

reason 1
protoss has figured out the early game more, how to expand safely and getting a greater economy than zerg. (forge expand gets more economy than a pool expand or gas pool expand, at the same time it can punish a hatchery first with cannon rush).
so then zergs option to catch up is to take a extremely fast 3rd base but this has been prooven many times to die to 6warpgate +1 timing attacks or the simple voidray +streamline of phoenixes.

the 3warpgate expand has its own beauty on smaller maps but also maps without as wide chokes. the units themselves are sentrys which not only defends any allin zerg does, also they build up energy to be great in mid and late game. on top of this creating these units themselves forces zerg to build defenses. and not a too uncommon strategy is to cancel the nexus and go for an allin, which zerg has no possibility to scout in time to prepare, so zergs only option is to overmake defenses every time he see 3warpgate expand.

so to sum it up the only way you dont fall behind vs a 3warpgate expand on rather small maps is too take huge risks and hope he dont cancel the nexus and did a 4/5gate fake nexus strategy.

and on big maps they can comfortably forge expand without any risk what so ever of cheese if they scout well and always get a unfair lead.

reason 2
protoss used to be this timing attack race off of 2 or 3 bases but recently they have figured out all they have to do is max out on 200 food and only turtle because no matter how many bases zerg has he still cant get a huge economic lead because u cant literally produce over 80 drones.
zerg became the timing attack player instead, using his "economic lead" on 3-4 bases and trying to break down the protoss before his army gets too big, or simply damage it alot and rebuild and go for it again, while expanding. but this is extremely hard when protoss gets an easy 3rd base (tal darim, terminus etc).
zerg is the race that wants to army trade on an even field so protoss has simply realized that there is never a reason to attack unless zerg gets too overgreedy. (and ofcourse toss has even the option to respond with another expansion aswell so again protoss attacking is always a threat to zerg but its never a must for protoss).

and once protoss gets 3 bases up and running for 1-2 minutes the zerg overpower style (attack, rebuild, attack, streamline) doesnt work anymore because protoss can rebuild at an almost equal rate. plus the larger protoss army it gets the less units they lose in fights)



so when it comes to 200 food deathballs. protoss should in theory always win, everyone knows that. so zerg is the race that wants to battle kill the majority of protosses army and then rebuild (using his bigger saved up money to his advantage).

now ive written down the way zvp should be, disregarding how hard it is for each race to execute their play so here comes the skill requiring part
so not only is protoss the stronger race right now in theory. it is also easier to play the race which is widely known for anyone thats high level to know.
to be the aggressor throughout the game and find ways to break the protoss is alot harder for zerg than for protoss to just figure out how to defend.
also mechanically speaking the race is vastly harder aswell.
and when it comes to mistakes you can make it your macro (money growing up, forgetting injects or chronoboost zerg is alot more unforgiving).
if i play vs midlevel protoss users who only play the turtle style i cant even tell a difference from our best protosses in europe, except for maybe the microcontrol.
whenever you see zvp on TSL or NASL or GSL, people are always judging the zerg what he is doing wrong, what he should be doing you can note if he forgets to spread creep or when his money gets high you call thats why he lose. protosses is like 80% of the case the one thats executing more badly than the zerg but nobody is mentioning that because its harder to see and it doesnt matter because the toss end up cleaning up anyway. i know i come off as extremely biased because i havent been doing too well in tournaments lately vs protosses but keep in mind. i dont ladder, all my zvp practice comes from literally only playing progamer protosses and talking to them about the game and how this matchup works (mainly with naniwa).
i wouldnt come here and say toss is alot easier to play than zerg if they wouldnt tell me the same. im not a toss progamer but they say themselves zerg has to be vastly superior to compete on the same level.
i have alot to improve on in zvp but i dont see myself worse than any other zerg in this matchup and i hope you can trust my word for that. ive been practicing this matchup almost exlusivly the past weeks and still my winratio in zvt is about 20% higher than in zvp. ive practiced mutalisk play, ive tried multipromt attacks and nyduses. and high infestor play. but the overpower style is the absolute best way (and most solid imo) to play this matchup