EPTNot nearly as much of a shock as the first episode. I feel like it should pick up the pace a bit, though, since not much was done this time. Just a bunch of Bal Masque stuff that didn't really do anything other than illustrate the unrest among the Tomogara. Not too disappointing, though, since Yoshida didn't get any screen time :D
Anime Discussion Thread - Page 1507
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:43 Sentenal wrote: Amuro was a little bitch for like 25 episodes of Gundam, and then he was a little bitch again when he showed up in Zeta. I mean, Amuro got salty that Bright slapped him, and that he had to fight, stole the Gundam to run around the desert in an Emo adventure, single handedly made the Battle of Odessa even harder for the Federation, and then expected the White Base to welcome him back with open arms? The dude in GC is an Amuro. Amuro invented an character archetype that TONS of anime MC fall into. Even Shinji in Evangelion is based on Amuro. I still don't see how this is comparable. Amuro definitely has fits in the first part of his first show, but he always manifests it assertively. Insubordination and desertion are stupid, but they take more balls than constant whining and self-pity. In Zeta he refuses to fight for all of 2 or 3 episodes then promptly does some crazy civilian aircraft ram attack shit. And now he's the inspiration for Shinji, who's actually a pussy at all times and essentially has no assertiveness at all? Refusal to fight should also be separated from being too scared to fight. Amuro's insubordination always involved fighting in ways that disobeyed orders so the only times he could possibly have been scared, and thus a pussy, were his one desertion in 79 and his few episodes of house arrest in Zeta. So somehow Amuro possibly manifesting fear for 5 or so episodes out of a much longer career causes him to be the archetype for impotent, cowardly protagonists? I'm not persuaded. If anything, much of his insubordination in 79 resulted in him being cocky and overconfident in his piloting abilities. Confidence and Shinji don't belong in the same sentence. And of course there's zero comparison on a first episode basis. Amuro opens his career with 0% bitch, while Shu's only defining features are his weaknesses. Anyways Shu is definitely archetypical. Everyone has seen the cliches. I have my doubts that they originated with Amuro. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:37 EchOne wrote: I still don't see how this is comparable. Amuro definitely has fits in the first part of his first show, but he always manifests it assertively. Insubordination and desertion are stupid, but they take more balls than constant whining and self-pity. In Zeta he refuses to fight for all of 2 or 3 episodes then promptly does some crazy civilian aircraft ram attack shit. And now he's the inspiration for Shinji, who's actually a pussy at all times and essentially has no assertiveness at all? Refusal to fight should also be separated from being too scared to fight. Amuro's insubordination always involved fighting in ways that disobeyed orders so the only times he could possibly have been scared, and thus a pussy, were his one desertion in 79 and his few episodes of house arrest in Zeta. So somehow Amuro possibly manifesting fear for 5 or so episodes out of a much longer career causes him to be the archetype for impotent, cowardly protagonists? I'm not persuaded. If anything, much of his insubordination in 79 resulted in him being cocky and overconfident in his piloting abilities. Confidence and Shinji don't belong in the same sentence. And of course there's zero comparison on a first episode basis. Amuro opens his career with 0% bitch, while Shu's only defining features are his weaknesses. Anyways Shu is definitely archetypical. Everyone has seen the cliches. I have my doubts that they originated with Amuro. Dude, I can't understand how you can argue this. Amuro invented the type of "unwilling emo teenager thrown into war, who matures over the course of the series". The last part is certainly up in the air since we have only seen episode 1, but it is definitely a safe bet that will happen. There just isn't any arguing that he is the basis for other characters like Shinji, Kira, Banana G, Renton, etc, and now this dude in GC. Yeah, they all have their differences. Thats what makes them different characters. And in Shinji's case, the goal of Eva was to be a "deconstruction", and therefore Amuro got deconstructed. That was Shinji's entire point. Honestly when talking about mecha archetypes of MCs, its not like he is even close to the other "main" types. He isn't anything like Kabuto Kouji. He isn't anything like Nagare Ryoma. He isn't like Kamille. He isn't like Judau. He isn't like Heero. He isn't like Noriko. Can you honestly say he is more like any of those characters, than he is like Amuro in early 0079? | ||
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boon2537
United States905 Posts
On October 15 2011 07:26 NationInArms wrote: Ugh, so complicated with Tsundere, Yandere, and Kuudere. You people are messing up my mind. @_@ Anyways, time to read Mirai Nikki. Would you mind explain their definition ? I've heard them since forever, but never really know what they mean :/ | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:33 boon2537 wrote: Would you mind explain their definition ? I've heard them since forever, but never really know what they mean :/ Yandere = Clingy, psychopath, stalker, crazy. Tsundere/Kuudere = Cold and harsh and bitchy on the outside, but sweet and caring in the inside. | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:35 Emnjay808 wrote: Yandere = Clingy, psychopath, stalker, crazy. Tsundere/Kuudere = Cold and harsh and bitchy on the outside, but sweet and caring in the inside. I thought you were describing Twinkies for a second. | ||
Nagisama
Canada4481 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:33 boon2537 wrote: Would you mind explain their definition ? I've heard them since forever, but never really know what they mean :/ Usually this method yields much more accurate results, much faster too. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=yandere http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tsundere http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kuudere | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:33 boon2537 wrote: Would you mind explain their definition ? I've heard them since forever, but never really know what they mean :/ http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Kuudere Easiest way to define them. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:42 Zeke50100 wrote: I thought you were describing Twinkies for a second. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/kramark808/wallpaper-848726.png) First thing that came to mind when I read ur post. xD | ||
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Gao Xi
Hong Kong5178 Posts
I urge anyone who has time to watch it. The log below is a discussion about penguindrum. However nothing is spoiled, its just to help explain a bit, for those wary of starting to watch it But yea please read the log. + Show Spoiler [Logs] + [23:29:21] <ecael> honestly [23:29:27] <AP0CALYPSE> WHITERA NOOOOO [23:29:29] <ecael> the more you guys get excited over penguin drum [23:29:31] <ecael> the more wary I am [23:29:57] <spazer> penguindrum pulls the most random shit on you [23:30:03] <spazer> but most of it makes sense in retrospect [23:30:12] <ecael> more in the sense that [23:30:16] <spazer> also the penguins are solid comic relief [23:30:19] <spazer> holy crap [23:30:23] <ecael> timing wise [23:30:27] <ecael> being excited [23:30:31] <ecael> at this part of the anime [23:30:33] <ecael> herp [23:30:38] <spazer> oic [23:30:47] <spazer> still 10 eps [23:30:50] <ecael> yes [23:31:03] <spazer> they've done pretty well so far [23:31:10] <spazer> if they can keep it up [23:31:14] <ecael> 10 episodes is a long time [23:31:15] <spazer> it'll be great overall [23:31:23] <ecael> there is that risk [23:31:24] <spazer> 10 eps was long enough for s;g to fuck up [23:31:25] <spazer> lol [23:31:26] <ecael> like shounen [23:31:47] <ecael> s;g was honestly screwed by the presentation [23:31:47] <ecael> lol [23:31:52] <gAOxI> spazer [23:31:56] <gAOxI> the penguins [23:32:04] <gAOxI> seem to be an oversimplification of the whole situation [23:32:09] <gAOxI> which makes it funny [23:32:14] <gAOxI> because in actuality the situation [23:32:16] <gAOxI> is pretty serious [23:32:18] <gAOxI> and dramatic [23:32:55] <gAOxI> and in a sense its not really random shit too [23:33:04] <gAOxI> its like a puzzle [23:33:11] <gAOxI> where they're showing all these random pieces [23:33:18] <gAOxI> and then connected them [23:33:43] <ecael> if that's the case [23:33:44] <gAOxI> but yea 10 eps is a long time [23:33:45] <ecael> I am very [23:33:46] <ecael> very [23:33:47] <ecael> wary [23:34:28] <gAOxI> ok [23:34:32] <gAOxI> seemingly random pieces [23:34:38] <gAOxI> because you cant see the full picture yet [23:34:44] <gAOxI> but they're part of the puzzle [23:34:44] <ecael> no, that's fair [23:34:48] <ecael> that's just a lot [23:34:51] <ecael> to juggle [23:34:53] <ecael> and keep up hype [23:34:57] <ecael> and 10 episodes left [23:34:59] <ecael> thus wary [23:35:04] <kupon3ss__> and sometimes shows try to piece everything together and fail [23:35:12] <gAOxI> thats true [23:35:13] <kupon3ss__> because they set up too many things [23:35:15] <ecael> like at times [23:35:17] <gAOxI> but thus far [23:35:18] <ecael> you'd do better [23:35:20] <gAOxI> has been solid [23:35:23] <ecael> to simply omit information [23:35:35] <ecael> but if they get too into it [23:35:37] <ecael> zz [23:35:51] <ecael> madoka was one of those things where they could've done well w/ omission of information [23:35:55] <ecael> instead they play out their hands [23:36:01] <ecael> then get fucked on broadcast order [23:36:14] <kupon3ss__> they still did a good job tho [23:36:20] <gAOxI> well they're definitely not playing out all their hands [23:36:21] <ecael> yeah they did [23:36:28] <gAOxI> cause theres still a lot of [23:36:31] <gAOxI> missing information [23:36:39] <gAOxI> i cant speculate though [23:36:42] <gAOxI> cause i dont know what to expect [23:36:48] <gAOxI> guess we have to wait and see [23:36:49] <ecael> urg [23:36:52] <ecael> if it is like that [23:36:52] <ecael> then [23:36:58] <ecael> they will probably not omit information [23:37:31] <gAOxI> well [23:37:33] <gAOxI> we'll see [23:37:39] <ecael> indeed [23:37:51] <gAOxI> but thus far [23:37:53] <gAOxI> has been solid | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 15 2011 14:49 Gao Xi wrote: After seeing penguindrum 14. It has been solid thus far. I urge anyone who has time to watch it. The log below is a discussion about penguindrum. However nothing is spoiled, its just to help explain a bit, for those wary of starting to watch it But yea please read the log. + Show Spoiler [Logs] + [23:29:21] <ecael> honestly [23:29:27] <AP0CALYPSE> WHITERA NOOOOO [23:29:29] <ecael> the more you guys get excited over penguin drum [23:29:31] <ecael> the more wary I am [23:29:57] <spazer> penguindrum pulls the most random shit on you [23:30:03] <spazer> but most of it makes sense in retrospect [23:30:12] <ecael> more in the sense that [23:30:16] <spazer> also the penguins are solid comic relief [23:30:19] <spazer> holy crap [23:30:23] <ecael> timing wise [23:30:27] <ecael> being excited [23:30:31] <ecael> at this part of the anime [23:30:33] <ecael> herp [23:30:38] <spazer> oic [23:30:47] <spazer> still 10 eps [23:30:50] <ecael> yes [23:31:03] <spazer> they've done pretty well so far [23:31:10] <spazer> if they can keep it up [23:31:14] <ecael> 10 episodes is a long time [23:31:15] <spazer> it'll be great overall [23:31:23] <ecael> there is that risk [23:31:24] <spazer> 10 eps was long enough for s;g to fuck up [23:31:25] <spazer> lol [23:31:26] <ecael> like shounen [23:31:47] <ecael> s;g was honestly screwed by the presentation [23:31:47] <ecael> lol [23:31:52] <gAOxI> spazer [23:31:56] <gAOxI> the penguins [23:32:04] <gAOxI> seem to be an oversimplification of the whole situation [23:32:09] <gAOxI> which makes it funny [23:32:14] <gAOxI> because in actuality the situation [23:32:16] <gAOxI> is pretty serious [23:32:18] <gAOxI> and dramatic [23:32:55] <gAOxI> and in a sense its not really random shit too [23:33:04] <gAOxI> its like a puzzle [23:33:11] <gAOxI> where they're showing all these random pieces [23:33:18] <gAOxI> and then connected them [23:33:43] <ecael> if that's the case [23:33:44] <gAOxI> but yea 10 eps is a long time [23:33:45] <ecael> I am very [23:33:46] <ecael> very [23:33:47] <ecael> wary [23:34:28] <gAOxI> ok [23:34:32] <gAOxI> seemingly random pieces [23:34:38] <gAOxI> because you cant see the full picture yet [23:34:44] <gAOxI> but they're part of the puzzle [23:34:44] <ecael> no, that's fair [23:34:48] <ecael> that's just a lot [23:34:51] <ecael> to juggle [23:34:53] <ecael> and keep up hype [23:34:57] <ecael> and 10 episodes left [23:34:59] <ecael> thus wary [23:35:04] <kupon3ss__> and sometimes shows try to piece everything together and fail [23:35:12] <gAOxI> thats true [23:35:13] <kupon3ss__> because they set up too many things [23:35:15] <ecael> like at times [23:35:17] <gAOxI> but thus far [23:35:18] <ecael> you'd do better [23:35:20] <gAOxI> has been solid [23:35:23] <ecael> to simply omit information [23:35:35] <ecael> but if they get too into it [23:35:37] <ecael> zz [23:35:51] <ecael> madoka was one of those things where they could've done well w/ omission of information [23:35:55] <ecael> instead they play out their hands [23:36:01] <ecael> then get fucked on broadcast order [23:36:14] <kupon3ss__> they still did a good job tho [23:36:20] <gAOxI> well they're definitely not playing out all their hands [23:36:21] <ecael> yeah they did [23:36:28] <gAOxI> cause theres still a lot of [23:36:31] <gAOxI> missing information [23:36:39] <gAOxI> i cant speculate though [23:36:42] <gAOxI> cause i dont know what to expect [23:36:48] <gAOxI> guess we have to wait and see [23:36:49] <ecael> urg [23:36:52] <ecael> if it is like that [23:36:52] <ecael> then [23:36:58] <ecael> they will probably not omit information [23:37:31] <gAOxI> well [23:37:33] <gAOxI> we'll see [23:37:39] <ecael> indeed [23:37:51] <gAOxI> but thus far [23:37:53] <gAOxI> has been solid Its popping more questions than answers at this point but its not terribly worrying, it looks thought out enough to not trip over itself. I was surprised how its manged to be quirky and deadly serious (pun intended) at the same time. I agree its solid, I was getting worried it was getting lost in the hype of the new seasons shows. + Show Spoiler + yuri rape lolololol | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:20 Sentenal wrote: Dude, I can't understand how you can argue this. Amuro invented the type of "unwilling emo teenager thrown into war, who matures over the course of the series". The last part is certainly up in the air since we have only seen episode 1, but it is definitely a safe bet that will happen. There just isn't any arguing that he is the basis for other characters like Shinji, Kira, Banana G, Renton, etc, and now this dude in GC. Yeah, they all have their differences. Thats what makes them different characters. And in Shinji's case, the goal of Eva was to be a "deconstruction", and therefore Amuro got deconstructed. That was Shinji's entire point. Honestly when talking about mecha archetypes of MCs, its not like he is even close to the other "main" types. He isn't anything like Kabuto Kouji. He isn't anything like Nagare Ryoma. He isn't like Kamille. He isn't like Judau. He isn't like Heero. He isn't like Noriko. Can you honestly say he is more like any of those characters, than he is like Amuro in early 0079? I'm willing to accept Shu being in Amuro's archetype, but let's try to define what exactly that is. After all, they're vastly different characters, which I suppose still allows for them to be of the same archetype if that archetype is sufficiently broad. "unwilling emo teenager thrown into war, who matures over the course of the series" is inadequate. If that was Amuro, even Turn A's Keith the baker would be Amuro. Willingness is a product of situation. Amuro, among many other real robot pilots, initially are gung-ho about piloting, then situations (overwork, finding out you're killing, fighting a friend, fighting a girl, killing a girl etc.) affect that. I suppose initially unwilling could work for Zeta Amuro, but then you get people like Renton or Kira who don't want anything more than to pilot with Eureka or defend his colony. Change unwilling to unwilling to kill... but that doesn't even fit Amuro, who regrets a few deaths, especially Lalah's, but willingly kills plenty without breaking a sweat. Emo... well I identified that with low confidence, passivity, cowardice... traits that only marginally identify Amuro. Teenager isn't even an element of personality, though it can lead to assumptions of maturity. War is a situation. Maturing over the course of the series is an imperative for any series worth watching. "These shows both have characters that are developed... they are therefore of the same mold." The mold of decent writing, maybe. So we have one word identifying the core of a character, his personality, and that is ill-defined. I'd like to know what elements of Amuro's personality created this mold that so many other real robot pilots are to fit into. Not situational elements. Kira's situation of being in an attacked colony then piloting a Gundam as a civilian on a battleship with civilian friends is basically Amuro's, but shouldn't that be an archetype of story, not character? I'll admit that Shu definitely doesn't fit with the other characters you bring up. He indeed fits more with the characters you say are part of Amuro's legacy, Shinji, Kira, Banana G (who is this guy lol), Renton. And really, I think he's closer to Shinji. You say Shinji is a deconstruction of Amuro, therefore part of his archetype? Is The Great Gatsby a celebration of consumerism? Are Nanoha or Madoka magical girl anime? Is Apocalyptica classical? It's not always the case, but this understanding of deconstruction often creates something wildly different. I believe it did in this case, and that the trend of weak heroes since Eva was in fact inspired by Eva. But to be fair, 79 founded the real robot tradition and the premise of an uninvolved hero thrust into and buffeted by events larger than himself. So I'll stop arguing before I waste more time. | ||
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KazeHydra
Japan2788 Posts
On October 15 2011 14:58 Rebs wrote: Its popping more questions than answers at this point but its not terribly worrying, it looks thought out enough to not trip over itself. I was surprised how its manged to be quirky and deadly serious (pun intended) at the same time. I agree its solid, I was getting worried it was getting lost in the hype of the new seasons shows. + Show Spoiler + yuri rape lolololol I actually feel the same as Ecael and I've been following it the whole time. The fact that it just keeps adding questions worries me and I question how they'll be able to answer everything smoothly without rushing it. Granted, 10 episodes is still plenty of time to do so but also plenty to mess it up. Also, while it's been fairly solid throughout, it is lacking in the area of excitement, mainly because so few answers have been revealed. While it's great that it's been able to maintain a constant level of entertainment, the fact that its level does not jump at times, with a couple exceptions, is one of its biggest faults. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
I'm willing to accept Shu being in Amuro's archetype, but let's try to define what exactly that is. After all, they're vastly different characters, which I suppose still allows for them to be of the same archetype if that archetype is sufficiently broad. "unwilling emo teenager thrown into war, who matures over the course of the series" is inadequate. If that was Amuro, even Turn A's Keith the baker would be Amuro. Keith wasn't a pilot or a fighter, and wasn't thrust into war. He was a baker. He made bread, and sold it. Therefore, he isn't an Amuro.This is getting way too long. Amuro initally got into the Gundam because he was mad that Fraw Bow's family just got killed in front of him. But after that initial case, he didn't want to fight. But he had to. This lead to him being a whiny bitch who had to get Bright-slapped many times. And over the course of the series, he matured. People who follow his archetype have things that set them apart, and things like how eager they are, how emo they are, how much they mature, it all changes depending on the character, but they all share that same formula. It isn't even about personality. Amuro and Kira's personality aren't the same. A character's personality doesn't fully define who they are. Banana G is similar to how Banagher is pronounced in Unicorn lol. Shinji is a deconstruction of Amuro because they start of with the same formula, but unlike Amuro, Shinji doesn't mature, and resets at the end. If you really want to say that he isn't the same archetype as Amuro, since hes a deconstruction, just put an * next to his type, or something. Close enough. It is too early to say if this guy in GC is like Shinji, without the anime completing. Both Nanoha and Madoka are magical girl anime, there isn't any way around that one. Bleh, look how much you made me write. Never forgive. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 15 2011 16:06 KazeHydra wrote: I actually feel the same as Ecael and I've been following it the whole time. The fact that it just keeps adding questions worries me and I question how they'll be able to answer everything smoothly without rushing it. Granted, 10 episodes is still plenty of time to do so but also plenty to mess it up. Also, while it's been fairly solid throughout, it is lacking in the area of excitement, mainly because so few answers have been revealed. While it's great that it's been able to maintain a constant level of entertainment, the fact that its level does not jump at times, with a couple exceptions, is one of its biggest faults. yea its a very "mai paisu" kinda show, if were going to talk about any beef with it I guess the stalker bit took to much airtime, of course its relevance is being explored gradually now, (whilst adding questions) but it's becoming a bit difficult to keep track of everything thats unexplained. The relevance and how it all ties in if they dont rush it and hopefully dont unnecessarily add to the mystery I think they can nail it pretty well regardless of how they choose to solve the puzzle. Doesnt really have to be a super mystery either, Id be fine with a Baccano/Drrr type reconciliation as far the plot is concerned as long as its entertaining. | ||
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ForeverAzerG
United Kingdom101 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
On October 15 2011 20:13 ForeverAzerG wrote: any recomendations for some good interresting 17+ anime preferably with quite a bit of violence and romance ^_^ Elfen Lied? Maybe Bakemonogatari? (Not very much violence I think.) | ||
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-y0shi-
Germany994 Posts
Lots of violence, great story, some romance (although its not the focus really), really 17+ | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On October 15 2011 20:13 ForeverAzerG wrote: any recomendations for some good interresting 17+ anime preferably with quite a bit of violence and romance ^_^ Bakemonogatari http://myanimelist.net/anime/5081/Bakemonogatari Its so good, im only caught up to ep 4. Im saving the rest for later... | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 15 2011 20:13 ForeverAzerG wrote: any recomendations for some good interresting 17+ anime preferably with quite a bit of violence and romance ^_^ School Days | ||
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