EPT[Manga] One Piece - Page 728
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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Yoshinaka
New Zealand50 Posts
On March 28 2014 13:54 Forikorder wrote: he was willing to die on Thriller Bark for Luffy his one goal is and always will be to be the number one swordsman but hes still completely loyal to Luffy bowing to mihawk was neccesary in order to become strong enough to protect the crew just like how surrendering to kuma was nesecary to protect luffy not really, sacrificing himself for luffy clearly (well for me anyway) that luffy and the crew is way more important then him achieving his own goals. you cant really become the greatest swordsmen if your dead right? that was the first pretty big clue. second was him kneeling before mihawk.i cant quote but im pretty sure mihawk said something on the lines as (" when you kneel before your enemy means you have found something more important) i think not 100% its the chapter when zoro kneels before him | ||
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GettingIt
1656 Posts
On March 28 2014 14:38 Yoshinaka wrote: not really, sacrificing himself for luffy clearly (well for me anyway) that luffy and the crew is way more important then him achieving his own goals. you cant really become the greatest swordsmen if your dead right? that was the first pretty big clue. second was him kneeling before mihawk.i cant quote but im pretty sure mihawk said something on the lines as (" when you kneel before your enemy means you have found something more important) i think not 100% its the chapter when zoro kneels before him Pretty much this. Making Luffy the Pirate King > becoming greatest swordsman. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Been wondering if Usopp couldn't have been conscious when he ate the grape. Could he have thrown something of his own into Sugar's mouth while she was screaming with her mouth wide open? | ||
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RenSC2
United States1102 Posts
Mihawk owns the title of greatest swordsman in the world and seemingly achieving that title was once his goal. Mihawk does not appear to be evil, but still seems to be selfish and 100% independent. He is out for himself only. Mihawk has a single-minded goal of being the best swordsman and he relies on nobody to get there, nor does he ever ask for help. He seems to think of anything other than complete independence as weakness. He doesn't have any known crew and his closest friend is probably his old sparring partner Shanks. He even seems to have stopped sparring with Shanks because Shanks lost an arm and can no longer be a quality sparring partner for Mihawk. At Marineford, Mihawk apologizes to Shanks, but then attacks Luffy anyways due to his own selfish needs. It seems very doubtful that Mihawk has ever had a true teacher past a basic level and would see it as weakness to ask for one. Zoro also has the goal of becoming the strongest swordsman in the world. However, even his goal is not selfish because it is based on his promise to Kuina. Early in the series, he does selfishly jump into battle against Mihawk; however, he changes throughout the series. His willingness to sacrifice himself for his crew is unmatched and shows up numerous times. Zoro fights for others and has his biggest breakthroughs because he feels the need to protect others. The interdependence with his crew pushes him to become stronger than he ever would while being alone. He still maintains his goal, but he understands that his own goal is a part of the greater picture and putting Luffy's needs above his own may actually help him achieve his goal. When Mihawk sees Zoro bow his head and ask for training, Mihawk sees it as weakness, expresses his disappointment, and assumes Zoro was just beaten by the monkeys. Mihawk can't really understand Zoro's interdependent attitude because he only knows independence. Zoro bows his head to Mihawk because he recognizes that by working with Mihawk, he will become stronger than he ever could become while working alone. By being with Luffy for so long, Zoro has learned to rely on others. Zoro's interdependence is his strength and presumably will eventually help him become even more powerful than Mihawk and his independent attitude. edit TLDR: Mihawk = independent. Zoro = interdependent. Interdependent > independent. Read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People to understand the difference. | ||
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Yoshinaka
New Zealand50 Posts
On March 28 2014 14:49 GettingIt wrote: Pretty much this. Making Luffy the Pirate King > becoming greatest swordsman. but zoro sacrificing himself doesnt make sense if thats the case. it just plain makes no sense. when zoro first joined the crew he told luffy that if he does anything to jeopardize his goal of becoming the strongest swordsmen he will kill luffy himself. straight after that when he lost to mihawk the first time after being saved from the water he acknowledged luffy as the pirate king and that he will never lose a fight again. as if hes declared a new goal then on top of all the other evidence through out the series that hes willing to jeopardize his personal amibtions for the crew and making luffy the pirate king. ill be very dissappointed if hes still chasing the no1 swordsmen after all hes done | ||
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KazeHydra
Japan2788 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On March 28 2014 15:16 KazeHydra wrote: I don't see it as one over the other. Zoro's idea of #1 swordsman is not just being the strongest; it also includes being the most honorable. If he can't help his comrades (especially his captain), he doesn't deserve the title (in his words, it would just be "empty words"). It's not him choosing Luffy's dream over his own. It's that it is a part of what it means to be the best, in his mind. so smart what this makes sense are you sabo? | ||
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sc2holar
Sweden1637 Posts
But he is also somewhat hypocritical sometimes. He wouldnt allow Usopp to rejoin the strawhats because he had attacked the captain, But Zoro himself also fought against Luffy back in Whiskey Peak. | ||
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shark.
593 Posts
On March 28 2014 20:37 sc2holar wrote: His commitment to become the best comes from the promise he made to Kuina, so its based on Honoring a promise to a friend in the first place. Zoro is the most honorable character in the series, along with Shanks IMO. But he is also somewhat hypocritical sometimes. He wouldnt allow Usopp to rejoin the strawhats because he had attacked the captain, But Zoro himself also fought against Luffy back in Whiskey Peak. He wouldn't allow Ussop to rejoin because Ussop said he was leaving. Luffy and Ussop fought for Merry after Ussop had stated he would no longer serve under luffy. | ||
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sc2holar
Sweden1637 Posts
On March 28 2014 20:41 shark. wrote: He wouldn't allow Ussop to rejoin because Ussop said he was leaving. Luffy and Ussop fought for Merry after Ussop had stated he would no longer serve under luffy. Well Yeah, and that is a pretty stupid reason. "You left, so you cant come back!" how do you rejoin unless you leave first, lol. And Usopp made up for his unruly behaviour when he fought bravely in enies lobby. Zoro was just being stubborn and mean, the strawhats are very close to each others and after all they have been through togheter, you would think that Zoro should be able to forgive usopp. Nami betrayed and left the SHs for a while, but Zoro never had an issue with her rejoining. He never complained about Robin coming back after leaving the crew in W7 where she and CP9 made them culprits for their assault on Whiteburg.. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On March 28 2014 20:54 sc2holar wrote: Well Yeah, and that is a pretty stupid reason. "You left, so you cant come back!" how do you rejoin unless you leave first, lol. And Usopp made up for his unruly behaviour when he fought bravely in enies lobby. Zoro was just being stubborn and mean, the strawhats are very close to each others and after all they have been through togheter, you would think that Zoro should be able to forgive usopp. Nami betrayed and left the SHs for a while, but Zoro never had an issue with her rejoining. He never complained about Robin coming back after leaving the crew in W7 where she and CP9 made them culprits for their assault on Whiteburg.. Ussop left SHs for totally selfish reason and disrespected Luffy, Zoro won't allow disrespect toward his captain. Namy left in the early part of the history, and she had reasons, she was mentally broken by Arlong. Robin left SHs because she loved them and wanted to save them sacrificing her own life. | ||
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shark.
593 Posts
On March 28 2014 20:54 sc2holar wrote: Well Yeah, and that is a pretty stupid reason. "You left, so you cant come back!" how do you rejoin unless you leave first, lol. And Usopp made up for his unruly behaviour when he fought bravely in enies lobby. Zoro was just being stubborn and mean, the strawhats are very close to each others and after all they have been through togheter, you would think that Zoro should be able to forgive usopp. Nami betrayed and left the SHs for a while, but Zoro never had an issue with her rejoining. He never complained about Robin coming back after leaving the crew in W7 where she and CP9 made them culprits for their assault on Whiteburg.. Nami and robin were basically forced to leave for their own reasons. Ussop plain out and stated he would not serve under someone like luffy. That is a tonne worse then just leaving. Zoro was right in saying they can't carry on with and trust someone who is willing to undermine luffy's authority over a disagreement. | ||
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
On March 28 2014 20:54 sc2holar wrote: Well Yeah, and that is a pretty stupid reason. "You left, so you cant come back!" how do you rejoin unless you leave first, lol. And Usopp made up for his unruly behaviour when he fought bravely in enies lobby. Zoro was just being stubborn and mean, the strawhats are very close to each others and after all they have been through togheter, you would think that Zoro should be able to forgive usopp. Nami betrayed and left the SHs for a while, but Zoro never had an issue with her rejoining. He never complained about Robin coming back after leaving the crew in W7 where she and CP9 made them culprits for their assault on Whiteburg.. wat. Zoro HAS forgiven Usopp, his point was that Usopp needed to acknowledge that there was something very real to forgive. If you don't understand the difference between "being mean" and making someone responsible for their actions, then I doubt I can explain it to you, but the gist is that Zoro was not allowing Usopp and the others to just pretend nothing had happened. Something had happened, something serious, and it was not going to go away without Usopp making amends and apologizing. After Usopp apologized, everyone on the crew was ready to forgive him, even Zoro. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On March 28 2014 20:37 sc2holar wrote: His commitment to become the best comes from the promise he made to Kuina, so its based on Honoring a promise to a friend in the first place. Zoro is the most honorable character in the series, along with Shanks IMO. But he is also somewhat hypocritical sometimes. He wouldnt allow Usopp to rejoin the strawhats because he had attacked the captain, But Zoro himself also fought against Luffy back in Whiskey Peak. In Whiskey Peak Luffy attacked Zoro. Different than the Usopp situation on many levels. Zoro noticed Whiksey Peak was a bounty hunter trap and began fighting. Luffy didn't quite notice and attack Zoro for "fighting innocent bystanders" Needless to say Zoro was right because the people were bounty hunters. If anything Luffy did apologize to Zoro. Usopp challenged Luffy for captaincy of the Going Merry. Since ownership of the ship is being the captain of the ship. And the SH crew were changing ships anyways. Also he first told everyone he will leave the crew. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On March 28 2014 21:31 Mataza wrote: In Whiskey Peak Luffy attacked Zoro. Different than the Usopp situation on many levels. Zoro noticed Whiksey Peak was a bounty hunter trap and began fighting. Luffy didn't quite notice and attack Zoro for "fighting innocent bystanders" Needless to say Zoro was right because the people were bounty hunters. If anything Luffy did apologize to Zoro. Usopp challenged Luffy for captaincy of the Going Merry. Since ownership of the ship is being the captain of the ship. And the SH crew were changing ships anyways. Also he first told everyone he will leave the crew. thank you for laying it down so people get it | ||
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sc2holar
Sweden1637 Posts
but i can see laughing tulkas point. But even if you agree or disagree with Zoros actions back then, you have to admit that we need to see more of the "Vice Captain" side of Zoro. He doesnt show his personality as often anymore. Especially during dressrosa, it feels like Oda has neglected him during this arc. I dont want Zoro to be a guy who just follows luffy around and takes care of enemies that get in their way so that luffy can run ahead. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
i find things are going GREAT as of right now. i'm really fucking pumped to see what will happen next week and i've been pumped since dressrosa started. it's just a friggin' great arc overall. i personally can't bring myself to find anything wrong with anything at all in one piece. this is oda's story, not mine. i can't be arsed to nitpick details so that i can validate myself as if i were some sort of critic, which i'm not. sigh i could honestly copy/paste this post and change a few words and post in the the fairy tail thread. both are great stories (i do prefer one piece though). i'd rather go for the ride and have fun than try to over-analyze stuff and attempt to give the respective stories a grade. grading is for schoolwork, not having fun | ||
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sc2holar
Sweden1637 Posts
But I agree mostly. I wouldnt be nitpicking with minor complaints if i didnt care for it and love it so much. Damn it, ive been reading this shit for more than a decade, its like a part of me by now. There is nothing wrong with nitpicking something you love. If i had to nitpick dressrosa, id say that Doflamingo is acting wierd right now. He knows Luffy is not in the colusseum. He knows the SHs are going after Sugar, and that they also have Viola with them who can guide then wherever they need to go. Yet he is just sitting in the room of suits and kinda reacts to what is going on without doing anything. That seems kind of wierd to me. He is built up as one of the most intelligent villains in the series, but he must be way to confident in his subordinates. But still, why not just leave law and riku for a second and hunt down the SHs before they create a huge wave of chaos? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 28 2014 14:38 Yoshinaka wrote: not really, sacrificing himself for luffy clearly (well for me anyway) that luffy and the crew is way more important then him achieving his own goals. you cant really become the greatest swordsmen if your dead right? that was the first pretty big clue. second was him kneeling before mihawk.i cant quote but im pretty sure mihawk said something on the lines as (" when you kneel before your enemy means you have found something more important) i think not 100% its the chapter when zoro kneels before him or maybe its "if i cant even protect them then i could never call myself the #1 swordsman even if i beat mihawk" So because Luffy is acting like a captain, Zoro cant give advice or show more personality? But I agree mostly. I wouldnt be nitpicking with minor complaints if i didnt care for it and love it so much. Damn it, ive been reading this shit for more than a decade, its like a part of me by now. There is nothing wrong with nitpicking something you love. If i had to nitpick dressrosa, id say that Doflamingo is acting wierd right now. He knows Luffy is not in the colusseum. He knows the SHs are going after Sugar, and that they also have Viola with them who can guide then wherever they need to go. Yet he is just sitting in the room of suits and kinda reacts to what is going on without doing anything. That seems kind of wierd to me. He is built up as one of the most intelligent villains in the series, but he must be way to confident in his subordinates. But still, why not just leave law and riku for a second and hunt down the SHs before they create a huge wave of chaos? hes got all the hostages with him and trusts his crew to handle the rest he assumes there gonna try to rescue law | ||
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