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On July 19 2013 12:46 Spicy_Curry wrote: Push vs Pull
But BBs "Pull" also disables any devil fruit powers so the "Push" wouldnt work at all.
might i add that Kumas Devil Fruit is probably the most random and nonsensical out of any "major" character.
his fruit gave him paws, that allows him to push people across the entire world, create bombs of concentrated air and transfer a characters physical pain into another charater. you know, makes sense.
why didnt oda just give him the push push fruit or some kind of general air-oriented paramecia? i mean his actual powers and abilities are in no way related or associated with "Paws". Hence it should not be called the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi/ Paw-Paw fruit. it feels shoehorned in to fit with the characters bear theme. But Oda could have kept the Paws on the character if he really wanted, just not make them the "source" of the characters powers...
You are completely wrong there. Blackbeard's Yami Yami no MI fruit only negates devil fruits if he is directly in contact with them. In a hypothetical situation, Kuma can just "Push" himself in the opposite way or just remove himself from the fight when he is being pulled in by Blackbeard.
Maybe DDs fruit is actually called something like "Plume-Plume Fruit", and that his powers to manipulate strings comes from his Pink Flamingo Plume (that is actually a part of him and not just a piece of clothing)? Makes about as much sense.
Oda could just have made Kumas clothes/design a little more bear oriented for him to live up to his name.
On July 19 2013 12:46 Spicy_Curry wrote: Push vs Pull
But BBs "Pull" also disables any devil fruit powers so the "Push" wouldnt work at all.
might i add that Kumas Devil Fruit is probably the most random and nonsensical out of any "major" character.
his fruit gave him paws, that allows him to push people across the entire world, create bombs of concentrated air and transfer a characters physical pain into another charater. you know, makes sense.
why didnt oda just give him the push push fruit or some kind of general air-oriented paramecia? i mean his actual powers and abilities are in no way related or associated with "Paws". Hence it should not be called the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi/ Paw-Paw fruit. it feels shoehorned in to fit with the characters bear theme. But Oda could have kept the Paws on the character if he really wanted, just not make them the "source" of the characters powers...
You are completely wrong there. Blackbeard's Yami Yami no MI fruit only negates devil fruits if he is directly in contact with them. In a hypothetical situation, Kuma can just "Push" himself in the opposite way or just remove himself from the fight when he is being pulled in by Blackbeard.
when he used Vortex against Ace, i think he instantly grabbed him from a distance (black fog appearing around ace out of thin air) and disabled aces ability to escape by turning into flames without being in physical contact.
edit: 12.20
he grabbed ace and disabled his logia powers without physical contact. So no, you are completley wrong.
On July 19 2013 12:46 Spicy_Curry wrote: Push vs Pull
But BBs "Pull" also disables any devil fruit powers so the "Push" wouldnt work at all.
might i add that Kumas Devil Fruit is probably the most random and nonsensical out of any "major" character.
his fruit gave him paws, that allows him to push people across the entire world, create bombs of concentrated air and transfer a characters physical pain into another charater. you know, makes sense.
why didnt oda just give him the push push fruit or some kind of general air-oriented paramecia? i mean his actual powers and abilities are in no way related or associated with "Paws". Hence it should not be called the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi/ Paw-Paw fruit. it feels shoehorned in to fit with the characters bear theme. But Oda could have kept the Paws on the character if he really wanted, just not make them the "source" of the characters powers...
You are completely wrong there. Blackbeard's Yami Yami no MI fruit only negates devil fruits if he is directly in contact with them. In a hypothetical situation, Kuma can just "Push" himself in the opposite way or just remove himself from the fight when he is being pulled in by Blackbeard.
when he used Vortex against Ace, i think he instantly grabbed him from a distance (black fog appearing around ace out of thin air) and disabled aces ability to escape by turning into flames without being in physical contact.
I can't see that video, but I am assuming it's from the anime. You should know damn well that only things from the manga and Oda are canon. So yes you are completely wrong. Try again.
Ok, i guess you are right there. Well the point is, i still dont think puma could push himself out of a vortex. The darkness sucks everything in, even unintangable objects like logia users. and kuma has to be in pyshical contact with BB to push BB away, but by that time his devil fruit powers are absorbed.
i think a hypotethical confrontantion between Kizarus Light and Blackbeards Darkness would be more interesting. Logically, they should sort of cancel each others out. Kizaru, being able to move at the speed of light, might even be able to dodge blackbeards vortex by teleporting around several times a second while blasting BB with rays of light.
On July 19 2013 21:28 sc2holar wrote: Ok, i guess you are right there. Well the point is, i still dont think puma could push himself out of a vortex. The darkness sucks everything in, even unintangable objects like logia users. and kuma has to be in pyshical contact with BB to push BB away, but by that time his devil fruit powers are absorbed.
You don't have to guess. You can fully believe that I am right there.
On July 19 2013 21:33 sc2holar wrote: i think a hypotethical confrontantion between Kizarus Light and Blackbeards Darkness would be more interesting. Logically, they should sort of cancel each others out.
yeah that fight would be awesome. the logical counter to darkness is light
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it. i think blackbeards logia darkness is a tad too strong for kumas paramecia "paw push transportation" to work, once grabbed.
On July 19 2013 21:33 sc2holar wrote: i think a hypotethical confrontantion between Kizarus Light and Blackbeards Darkness would be more interesting. Logically, they should sort of cancel each others out.
yeah that fight would be awesome. the logical counter to darkness is light
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it.
Note I used quotation mark since I know it's not an actual teleport effect. I say instant effect as in his fruit power will immediately be used to push himself.
Now, I wait for Oda's official confirmation on this particular situation, http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47876-8/one-piece/chapter-576.html But, Whitebeard indeed used his fruit power while in physical contact with Teach and I'll have to credit that to use of Busoshoku Haki. Hypothetically, Kuma's fruit power can do the same if the user is Busoshoku Haki imbued.
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it.
Note I used quotation mark since I know it's not an actual teleport effect. I say instant effect as in his fruit power will immediately be used to push himself.
Now, I wait for Oda's official confirmation on this particular situation, http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47876-8/one-piece/chapter-576.html But, Whitebeard indeed used his fruit power while in physical contact with Teach and I'll have to credit that to use of Busoshoku Haki. Hypothetically, Kuma's fruit power can do the same if the user is Busoshoku Haki imbued.
the point is that Blackbeards vortex essentially works like being dragged by an in incredible force of gravity equal to a black hole, as BB explains to Ace. i think if Kumas push would simply backfire and crush him if he dried to push himself out of a black hole...
all kuma could do is push himself to the other side of the planet the moment he sees blackbeard, because once he is grabbed, he is basicly screwed.
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it.
Note I used quotation mark since I know it's not an actual teleport effect. I say instant effect as in his fruit power will immediately be used to push himself.
Now, I wait for Oda's official confirmation on this particular situation, http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47876-8/one-piece/chapter-576.html But, Whitebeard indeed used his fruit power while in physical contact with Teach and I'll have to credit that to use of Busoshoku Haki. Hypothetically, Kuma's fruit power can do the same if the user is Busoshoku Haki imbued.
the point is that Blackbeards vortex essentially works like being dragged by an in incredible force of gravity equal to a black hole, as BB explains to Ace. i think if Kumas push would simply backfire and crush him if he dried to push himself out of a black hole...
all kuma could do is push himself to the other side of the planet the moment he sees blackbeard, because once he is grabbed, he is basicly screwed.
Going with what we have so far, yes it seems that Kurouzou is irresistible, but we won't know until another Blackbeard vs. ??? happens.
On July 19 2013 09:07 i am plus wrote: blackbeard might have given him a scar but akainu didnt even try to fight shanks even with 1 arm when he stopped his attack..
and akainu was willing to fight blackbeard when they tryed to get a warship for that supernova girl
Fighting Shanks would have ment taking on another Yonkous main crew while they were already fighting Whitebeards pirates and Blackbeard trying to sink the Island.
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it.
Note I used quotation mark since I know it's not an actual teleport effect. I say instant effect as in his fruit power will immediately be used to push himself.
Now, I wait for Oda's official confirmation on this particular situation, http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47876-8/one-piece/chapter-576.html But, Whitebeard indeed used his fruit power while in physical contact with Teach and I'll have to credit that to use of Busoshoku Haki. Hypothetically, Kuma's fruit power can do the same if the user is Busoshoku Haki imbued.
the point is that Blackbeards vortex essentially works like being dragged by an in incredible force of gravity equal to a black hole, as BB explains to Ace. i think if Kumas push would simply backfire and crush him if he dried to push himself out of a black hole...
all kuma could do is push himself to the other side of the planet the moment he sees blackbeard, because once he is grabbed, he is basicly screwed.
Going with what we have so far, yes it seems that Kurouzou is irresistible, but we won't know until another Blackbeard vs. ??? happens.
It also comes down to the vague and quite inconsistent Haki VS DF equation, wich oda himself doesnt seem to have worked out so far.
If Busoshoku Haki simply cancels out the defensive logia powers completlety, then even a paramecia user like DD could theoreticly solo every single character in the series (provided he gets the "surprise advantage") including the admirals and blackbeard, simply by using haki infused strings to slice their heads of (like he almost did to smoker).
i personally think the introduction of Busoshoku Haki has the potential to turn every fight between powerful characters into "whoever gets the first strike/jump wins". its a mess, but it had to be introduced in order for luffy to combat logia users. its a tough spot for Oda.
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it.
Note I used quotation mark since I know it's not an actual teleport effect. I say instant effect as in his fruit power will immediately be used to push himself.
Now, I wait for Oda's official confirmation on this particular situation, http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47876-8/one-piece/chapter-576.html But, Whitebeard indeed used his fruit power while in physical contact with Teach and I'll have to credit that to use of Busoshoku Haki. Hypothetically, Kuma's fruit power can do the same if the user is Busoshoku Haki imbued.
the point is that Blackbeards vortex essentially works like being dragged by an in incredible force of gravity equal to a black hole, as BB explains to Ace. i think if Kumas push would simply backfire and crush him if he dried to push himself out of a black hole...
all kuma could do is push himself to the other side of the planet the moment he sees blackbeard, because once he is grabbed, he is basicly screwed.
Going with what we have so far, yes it seems that Kurouzou is irresistible, but we won't know until another Blackbeard vs. ??? happens.
It also comes down to the vague and quite inconsistent Haki VS DF equation, wich oda himself doesnt seem to have worked out so far.
If Busoshoku Haki simply cancels out the defensive logia powers completlety, then even a paramecia user like DD could theoreticly solo every single character in the series (provided he gets the "surprise advantage") including the admirals and blackbeard, simply by using haki infused strings to slice their heads of (like he almost did to smoker).
i personally think the introduction of Busoshoku Haki has the potential to turn every fight between powerful characters into "whoever gets the first strike/jump wins". its a mess, but it had to be introduced in order for luffy to combat logia users. its a tough spot for Oda.
Then you have completely misread the manga regarding Busoshoku Haki because you can see in Marineford saga, Vista uses Busoshoku Haki on Akainu and slices his neck, but Akainu does not actually get cut.
Oda will definitely explain this situation at some point, but Busoshoku Haki certainly does not make every fight "whoever gets first strike/jump wins" as you believe.
On July 19 2013 21:33 sc2holar wrote: i think a hypotethical confrontantion between Kizarus Light and Blackbeards Darkness would be more interesting. Logically, they should sort of cancel each others out. Kizaru, being able to move at the speed of light, might even be able to dodge blackbeards vortex by teleporting around several times a second while blasting BB with rays of light.
On July 19 2013 21:33 sc2holar wrote: i think a hypotethical confrontantion between Kizarus Light and Blackbeards Darkness would be more interesting. Logically, they should sort of cancel each others out. Kizaru, being able to move at the speed of light, might even be able to dodge blackbeards vortex by teleporting around several times a second while blasting BB with rays of light.
light can not escape blackhole
If BB's fruit was a black hole, then half the solar system would be crushed into it the moment he used it.
It's not a literal black hole. Actually I'd be curious to see how it was actually described in japanese.
As I already showed you, Blackbeard can't negate anything until he touches them. Kuma can just "teleport" himself out.
One misconception about the powers of the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi is that it gives its user the ability to transport at will. However, this assumption is incorrect. Rather than teleport, Kuma uses the incredible speed of his Devil Fruit power to propel himself across certain distances
there is no proof that that he can push himself away if grabbed by vortex. i would definitely not bet on it.
Note I used quotation mark since I know it's not an actual teleport effect. I say instant effect as in his fruit power will immediately be used to push himself.
Now, I wait for Oda's official confirmation on this particular situation, http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47876-8/one-piece/chapter-576.html But, Whitebeard indeed used his fruit power while in physical contact with Teach and I'll have to credit that to use of Busoshoku Haki. Hypothetically, Kuma's fruit power can do the same if the user is Busoshoku Haki imbued.
the point is that Blackbeards vortex essentially works like being dragged by an in incredible force of gravity equal to a black hole, as BB explains to Ace. i think if Kumas push would simply backfire and crush him if he dried to push himself out of a black hole...
all kuma could do is push himself to the other side of the planet the moment he sees blackbeard, because once he is grabbed, he is basicly screwed.
Going with what we have so far, yes it seems that Kurouzou is irresistible, but we won't know until another Blackbeard vs. ??? happens.
It also comes down to the vague and quite inconsistent Haki VS DF equation, wich oda himself doesnt seem to have worked out so far.
If Busoshoku Haki simply cancels out the defensive logia powers completlety, then even a paramecia user like DD could theoreticly solo every single character in the series (provided he gets the "surprise advantage") including the admirals and blackbeard, simply by using haki infused strings to slice their heads of (like he almost did to smoker).
i personally think the introduction of Busoshoku Haki has the potential to turn every fight between powerful characters into "whoever gets the first strike/jump wins". its a mess, but it had to be introduced in order for luffy to combat logia users. its a tough spot for Oda.
Then you have completely misread the manga regarding Busoshoku Haki because you can see in Marineford saga, Vista uses Busoshoku Haki on Akainu and slices his neck, but Akainu does not actually get cut.
Oda will definitely explain this situation at some point, but Busoshoku Haki certainly does not make every fight "whoever gets first strike/jump wins" as you believe.
thats the way Rayleight explained it to luffy, pretty much. It seems to be a question of plot inconsistency. when Jozu used it to tackle Crocodile, it completley neglected his logia powers and he was subjected to the damage like an "ordinary" person.
Busoshoku Haki has been compared to seastone, and even logia users are said to be unable to recover damage taken while under the effect of seastone (as we know marco the phoenix is the only devil fruit user who is an exception to this rule)
EPT
