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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way.
Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself.
Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons.
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On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons.
Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE!
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On June 08 2013 07:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons. Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE!
I don't think Renly was that kind of a person. Sure, he didn't like Stannis but he wouldn't kill his own brother with cold blood. I belive he considered the whole thing as a slightly bigger family quarrel.
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On June 08 2013 07:27 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons. Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE! I don't think Renly was that kind of a person. Sure, he didn't like Stannis but he wouldn't kill his own brother with cold blood. I belive he treated the whole thing as slightly bigger family quarrel.
Well he was prepared to fight and kill his brother in battle, makes more sense to me if he just did it with out killing thousands of soldiers too! Granted not nearly as honourable but Renly is not Stannis in that he is overly stubborn about honour and duty, the fact he wanted to claim the throne over his older brother in the first place proves that.
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On June 08 2013 07:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:27 Sent. wrote:On June 08 2013 07:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons. Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE! I don't think Renly was that kind of a person. Sure, he didn't like Stannis but he wouldn't kill his own brother with cold blood. I belive he treated the whole thing as slightly bigger family quarrel. Well he was prepared to fight and kill his brother in battle, makes more sense to me if he just did it with out killing thousands of soldiers too! Granted not nearly as honourable but Renly is not Stannis in that he is overly stubborn about honour and duty, the fact he wanted to claim the throne over his older brother in the first place proves that.
Funny that you would say that when it was actually Stannis that went the assassination route. 
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On June 08 2013 07:47 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:27 Sent. wrote:On June 08 2013 07:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons. Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE! I don't think Renly was that kind of a person. Sure, he didn't like Stannis but he wouldn't kill his own brother with cold blood. I belive he treated the whole thing as slightly bigger family quarrel. Well he was prepared to fight and kill his brother in battle, makes more sense to me if he just did it with out killing thousands of soldiers too! Granted not nearly as honourable but Renly is not Stannis in that he is overly stubborn about honour and duty, the fact he wanted to claim the throne over his older brother in the first place proves that. Funny that you would say that when it was actually Stannis that went the assassination route.
Indeed, Honor is not a good descriptor of Stannis. Duty and Justice are, however.
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On June 08 2013 07:27 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons. Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE! I don't think Renly was that kind of a person. Sure, he didn't like Stannis but he wouldn't kill his own brother with cold blood. I belive he considered the whole thing as a slightly bigger family quarrel.
IMO, I think it was more just a matter of intelligence with Renly. He didn't think of a solution that elegant. And his image. He wanted to look cool with all his broknights, gallivanting into battle with much glory and pageantry. Not much to be had with a quiet assassination/succession. Remember, Renly's primary focus was impressing all the cute boys, not actual rulership.
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I don't understand why Stannis named Joffrey, as one of the three usurpers when he knows Tomnen (sp?) would be next in line for the throne. He would still be fighting the Lannisters for the Iron Throne.
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On June 08 2013 09:13 ore0z wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis named Joffrey, as one of the three usurpers when he knows Tomnen (sp?) would be next in line for the throne. He would still be fighting the Lannisters for the Iron Throne.
Tomnen hasn't made claim though? I mean his family might use him but personally he hasn't done anything so I can imagine Stannis thinking that he isn't an usurper yet.
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Hey guys, I was curious if we can discuss book relations between things that HAVE happened? I came across a cool wiki entry with no spoilers that just discuss the subtle differences and I noticed that there was a GRR Martin post earlier (interview) where he discussed Talisa's death and how it's different (even her names different) in the books.
Whether you believe it or not I got 1 chapter into the first book and stopped reading so it's all stuff I don't know much about but the things regarding The Hound's interactions with Sansa are interesting in and of itself and how they're slightly altering his character.
But yeah, up to the thread/mods thought I'd ask before posting the wiki. As I said it has no spoilers, even when it comes to spoilers (like if someone died earlier then they had) they wait until the actual death to say it (like as in the wildling warg)
On June 08 2013 09:17 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 09:13 ore0z wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis named Joffrey, as one of the three usurpers when he knows Tomnen (sp?) would be next in line for the throne. He would still be fighting the Lannisters for the Iron Throne. Tomnen hasn't made claim though? I mean his family might use him but personally he hasn't done anything so I can imagine Stannis thinking that he isn't an usurper yet.
You make claim by being alive. Tomnen has claim immediately after Joffrey dies and so forth just as Bran now has claim to Winterfell as the ward of the north.
On June 08 2013 08:19 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:47 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 07:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:27 Sent. wrote:On June 08 2013 07:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 08 2013 07:11 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:29 Dosey wrote:On June 08 2013 06:21 Redox wrote:On June 08 2013 06:16 Dosey wrote:
While we're on the subject of Renly...
Renly's refusal to join Stannis never made much sense to me. It is pretty well known that Selise hasn't given Stannis a trueborn son (and probably cant) and Shireen has greyscale. In the line of succession after Stannis, Renly would basically be next. So why not just go along with Stannis and arrange for Shireen to die of "complications", effectively making himself the next in line. No one wants a Queen with greyscale anyway, so who would really give a fuck? Hell, there'd probably be a line of potential conspirators to help him out. There is like 5 years or maybe 10 years between them (I do not know exactly). So Renly could maybe have the throne in 40 years for like 10 years if everything goes the natural way. Or he could even die before Stannis in 30 years or whatever. Also Stannis could still get another heir in those 40 remaining years. So your idea does not make much sense for him. Odds are Stannis wouldn't get another heir through Selise and wouldn't conspire to kill her because of his "honor". Renly have the throne in 40 years? Are you mad? Robert had it for ~15 in a time of PEACE and was pretty much well loved by everyone. This is a time of war. Krakens, Lions, and Dragons, oh my. Odds are that if the Stress didn't kill him, one of those three would find a way to do it and Renly could possibly help the plans along the way. Still doesnt make any sense to just wait and hope that his brother will be killed by in some rebellion or whatever and that he can kill his daughter and that Stannis will not get more children and that Renly will not die himself. Simply taking the by far biggest army in the 7 kingdoms that was offered to him (several times bigger than his brothers), and just beat Stannis with that obviously offers much better chances. You can not really fault him for not factoring in random shadow demons. Should have helped Stannis win the throne then assassinate him discreetly right after, no time for a new heir Renly is the rightful king GG no RE! I don't think Renly was that kind of a person. Sure, he didn't like Stannis but he wouldn't kill his own brother with cold blood. I belive he treated the whole thing as slightly bigger family quarrel. Well he was prepared to fight and kill his brother in battle, makes more sense to me if he just did it with out killing thousands of soldiers too! Granted not nearly as honourable but Renly is not Stannis in that he is overly stubborn about honour and duty, the fact he wanted to claim the throne over his older brother in the first place proves that. Funny that you would say that when it was actually Stannis that went the assassination route. Indeed, Honor is not a good descriptor of Stannis. Duty and Justice are, however.
I think it is in how you define honor... I feel as if his "honor" is hardlined within his duty and justice and he feels that that any usurper or anyone who goes against his code of ethics is immediately removable as that is his duty. He is honorable to his code and as such is honorable; just maybe not to others.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
No it's not. It's clearly stated that stuff like 'in the books it happened this way while in the show in the other way' is not allowed.
Imagine in this topic that there are no books, just a tv show. That's how this thread should be approached. If you want to discuss the books, go read them and discuss it in the spoiler thread. If you don't want to read the books, go discuss it elsewhere.
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On June 08 2013 09:13 ore0z wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis named Joffrey, as one of the three usurpers when he knows Tomnen (sp?) would be next in line for the throne. He would still be fighting the Lannisters for the Iron Throne.
He probably named Joffrey instead of say, Tywin, just because the spell doesn't work that way. At least that is how I interpreted it. The spell called for King's blood, and probably only works on those who claim to be King.
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On June 08 2013 09:26 GwSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 09:13 ore0z wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis named Joffrey, as one of the three usurpers when he knows Tomnen (sp?) would be next in line for the throne. He would still be fighting the Lannisters for the Iron Throne. He probably named Joffrey instead of say, Tywin, just because the spell doesn't work that way. At least that is how I interpreted it. The spell called for King's blood, and probably only works on those who claim to be King.
That makes more sense
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On June 08 2013 09:23 Twisted wrote:
No it's not. It's clearly stated that stuff like 'in the books it happened this way while in the show in the other way' is not allowed.
Imagine in this topic that there are no books, just a tv show. That's how this thread should be approached. If you want to discuss the books, go read them and discuss it in the spoiler thread. If you don't want to read the books, go discuss it elsewhere.
Holy passive aggression I was trying to be as polite as possible in asking the thread. A simple "no please" and explain the approach. I only surf this thread briefly from time to time to avoid real spoilers. I won't though thanks
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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I watched season 1 with my friend and she ran out of the room crying when Ned got chopped. She's gonna have a nervous breakdown after this episode kekeke.
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Just went on a fucking binge from s02e09 to s03e09. My Tulissa.....whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
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On June 08 2013 09:54 Hitch-22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 09:23 Twisted wrote:
No it's not. It's clearly stated that stuff like 'in the books it happened this way while in the show in the other way' is not allowed.
Imagine in this topic that there are no books, just a tv show. That's how this thread should be approached. If you want to discuss the books, go read them and discuss it in the spoiler thread. If you don't want to read the books, go discuss it elsewhere. Holy passive aggression I was trying to be as polite as possible in asking the thread. A simple "no please" and explain the approach. I only surf this thread briefly from time to time to avoid real spoilers. I won't though thanks
Read the notes at the top of the thread then. Mod's alrdy have to basically spam refresh on this thread alone to block out people spoiling the story so others don't get ruined. Don't talk about the books period, what is there to think about.
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Late to the party, sir. Excellent video, though. 
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EPT
