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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 06 2013 02:42 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? That episode perfectly showed that she needs to do more than just toss a leech into a fire to kill someone. If she could have just done the leech thing why bother with all this birthing a son etc? Not saying the red god has no power, but I dont think hes almighty in the sense of the Christian god. Also, it can still be "just" magic and no god at all.
because at the time, the only royal blood she had was stannis
On June 06 2013 02:43 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? and thoros resurrecting beric? Being able to do one thing does not always mean you are able to do similar things as well. Still, the Red Woman's powers are pretty strong. To leave a lot open and suggest the viewer/reader to make his own thoughts about the progress beforehand is one of the best things in GoT to me, so feel free to believe what you will!
my comment was in response to "I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent"
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On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? and thoros resurrecting beric?
Yea I don't know. The idea that she "saw" Robb's death and then did the leach ceremony for show is interesting. But for what purpose? To convince the onion knight that she's legit? Why would she care the slightest about his opinion. She already birthed a demon baby that slayed Renly. Also, why would she go through all that trouble to get Robert's bastard then?
The whole bit where Mellisandra was shocked and taken aback by Beric being resurrected is the only thing that would lead me to question her power. Girl seems pretty terrifying O__o
and now for a total shot in the dark -- season 5 show down between Danny and Mellisandra? How epic, the lord of light vs dragons!
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On June 06 2013 02:49 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? and thoros resurrecting beric? Yea I don't know. The idea that she "saw" Robb's death and then did the leach ceremony for show is interesting. But for what purpose? To convince the onion knight that she's legit? Why would she care the slightest about his opinion. She already birthed a demon baby that slayed Renly. Also, why would she go through all that trouble to get Robert's bastard then?
for that part, i'm pretty sure it's because she was basically draining stannis's life away when they did that. he looked pretty rough after that happened.. i think the onion knight commented on it as well
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On June 06 2013 02:42 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? That episode perfectly showed that she needs to do more than just toss a leech into a fire to kill someone. If she could have just done the leech thing why bother with all this birthing a son etc? Not saying the red god has no power, but I dont think hes almighty in the sense of the Christian god. Also, it can still be "just" magic and no god at all.
O shoot, I didn't consider it like that. Well, what if the demon baby did its deed immediately- same night right? where as the leach routine takes more time. (but then you could argue the leach ceremony did nothing and those characters were destined to die anyways) Best show ever... Could literally just talk about this stuff all day :D
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On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? and thoros resurrecting beric?
Yes, did you miss that? Because I don't see how it backs up your point. It backs up my point. We have seen two immediate magical effects and now any sort of mysticism that the red lady talks about is immediately true? The LoL has been proven to be able to a) be involved in creating shadow fiends and b) heal non-limb-separating wounds recently caused to people. No proof or reason to believe he can control the desires and plans of people or go back in time (either of which would be required for him to have been involved in the red wedding).
It might be that the LoL was involved, but it's not particularly clever to assume that now, in fact it's silly.
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Afaik the shadow demon thing and Beric being OP could be just some magic, which don't prove the existence of any godly Lord at all, not even after Thoros speech.
Bran for example can warg into Hodor and animals and that doesn't make anyone think the... Old gods? are real. If he just praised it was because of the old gods are powerful and real, probably some would believe it? 
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On June 06 2013 02:59 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? and thoros resurrecting beric? Yes, did you miss that? Because I don't see how it backs up your point. It backs up my point. We have seen two immediate magical effects and now any sort of mysticism that the red lady talks about is immediately true? The LoL has been proven to be able to a) be involved in creating shadow fiends and b) heal non-limb-separating wounds recently caused to people. No proof or reason to believe he can control the desires and plans of people or go back in time (either of which would be required for him to have been involved in the red wedding). It might be that the LoL was involved, but it's not particularly clever to assume that now, in fact it's silly.
Is it unreasonable to think that perhaps there is no LoL and it's just magic? Everyone knows that since the dragons have come back, magic has been growing increasingly strong in many different forms. The warlocks power was strongest in the presence of the dragons, and Thoros himself said that until the day he ressurected Beric after being killed by Gregor, that the words never did anything.
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On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two
I think you mean Joffery Baratheon.
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On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent.
About as fraudulent as a black demon coming out of a girl that gets pregnant and gives birth within hours and manages to stab a knife threw the false king Renly or revives the leader of the Brotherhood without Banners on six occasions, one which we visually see.
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On June 06 2013 02:49 stokes17 wrote:
and now for a total shot in the dark -- season 5 show down between Danny and Mellisandra? How epic, the lord of light vs dragons!
Don't you think Lord of Light(Light and Fire) is most likely to ally with the whole Dragon shenanigans as they are also an element of fire?
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On June 06 2013 03:08 Salteador Neo wrote:Afaik the shadow demon thing and Beric being OP could be just some magic, which don't prove the existence of any godly Lord at all, not even after Thoros speech. Bran for example can warg into Hodor and animals and that doesn't make anyone think the... Old gods? are real. If he just praised it was because of the old gods are powerful and real, probably some would believe it?
This may be a leap, but it might have to do with the Old Gods. The Starks and some other people in the north are among the few who still believe in the Old Gods (which from the few scenes I've seen is basically a tree). The only people who have demonstrated any magic related to animals is from the North or further north.
Maybe I'm only thinking this because worshipping a tree reminds me of hippie animal lovers.
I have no idea what the New Gods do though, or if they're even real.
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On June 06 2013 03:10 Am0n3r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:49 stokes17 wrote:
and now for a total shot in the dark -- season 5 show down between Danny and Mellisandra? How epic, the lord of light vs dragons! Don't you think Lord of Light(Light and Fire) is most likely to ally with the whole Dragon shenanigans as they are also an element of fire?
Yeah. . . Dragons being fire made flesh, kinda hints toward the Lord of Light's servants, who really like fire being rather friendly with the Mother of Dragons.
Also, why Season 5? isn't it season 3 right now?
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User was warned for this post
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On June 06 2013 03:10 Hitch-22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. About as fraudulent as a black demon coming out of a girl that gets pregnant and gives birth within hours and manages to stab a knife threw the false king Renly or revives the leader of the Brotherhood without Banners on six occasions, one which we visually see.
We have stablished that magic exists and that people like those warlocks have it and they don't seem to be aligned with any god. Melissandre is also shown to be surprissed that Thoros has the power to revive, so it's not like there's a set of powers that all of the red priests have.
Melissandre is also supposed to come from Asshai a place which seems related to shadows:
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Asshai
So it could be that the LoL isn't real but some of the red priests quite simply have unique magical powers.
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On June 06 2013 02:59 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:22 sc4k wrote:On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two That's the same level of classic coincidence as when a voodoo priest in Africa has a 'witch' burned to death to make the rain come and the rain comes the next day. Until we get a second death, believing that the LoL had anything to do with the first death is, imo, silly. I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent. did you miss the episode where the shadow demon crawled out of her vagina? and thoros resurrecting beric? Yes, did you miss that? Because I don't see how it backs up your point. It backs up my point. We have seen two immediate magical effects and now any sort of mysticism that the red lady talks about is immediately true? The LoL has been proven to be able to a) be involved in creating shadow fiends and b) heal non-limb-separating wounds recently caused to people. No proof or reason to believe he can control the desires and plans of people or go back in time (either of which would be required for him to have been involved in the red wedding). It might be that the LoL was involved, but it's not particularly clever to assume that now, in fact it's silly.
let me re-quote you, since you seem to forget what you said
I still get the feeling that this LoL thing is actually fairly fraudulent.
to which i responded with two examples of magic whose only given explanation is the LoL
and maybe soon to be death of kings by melisandre via leeches
that's two things that for sure happened whose only given explanation is LoL, and another that seems to be working so far
pretty sure that "backs up" what i said in response to you
On June 06 2013 03:10 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:20 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 06 2013 02:16 sc4k wrote:
Why is everyone assuming the leech ceremony actually did anything? Frey's treachery was on the cards from the start, way before the ceremony. The LoL has shown he can do some magic, better than parlour tricks, but I have no reason to believe he can shape fate so much...yet. because in episode 8 she used a leech for rob stark, one for balon greyjoy, and one for tywin lannister. then, in the following episode, rob died. we'll have to watch for the other two I think you mean Joffery Baratheon.
you are right, thanks for catching that - fixed
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You can't possibly know that.
Maybe she saw their deaths in the fire and waited for a good time to show off and pretend to kill them. . .
Maybe she only saw Robbs death and tries to frighten the others if word comes to them somehow, MAYBE she just targets kings in a time where too many kings are around, knowing they will die.
After all, in her mind Stannis is the one true king, so obviously all others have to die since Stannis is not willing to accpet a King in the North or anything.
Or, maybe, she actually destined them to die before their time.
I don't know and you don't know either.
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On June 06 2013 03:10 Am0n3r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 02:49 stokes17 wrote:
and now for a total shot in the dark -- season 5 show down between Danny and Mellisandra? How epic, the lord of light vs dragons! Don't you think Lord of Light(Light and Fire) is most likely to ally with the whole Dragon shenanigans as they are also an element of fire?
I don't see mellisandra being #2 in a faction willingly. She is basically the neck that turns Stannis' head at the moment . Why would she take a demotion to work w/ Danny? Mellisandra is so confident in herself, so I doubt she'd make that move out of self preservation.
Idn, in my lil brain I see mellisandra and the LOL fighting back the white walkers in season 4 (they only die when you burn them- fire god can burn them all up right?) And then season 5 Danny will be strong enough to come and try her hand in westeros. Would make those 2 the biggest players left (the lanaster line should fall pretty quickly after Tywin dies I think).
The Tyrells, grey joys, Boltens( Bolten makes power grab against tywin's weaker brother maybe?) figure into all that too I'm sure, and Dorne?
But yea if Mellisandra and Danny team up, that would be absolute terror- demon babies AND dragons- yikes!!!!
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On June 06 2013 03:13 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 03:10 Am0n3r wrote:On June 06 2013 02:49 stokes17 wrote:
and now for a total shot in the dark -- season 5 show down between Danny and Mellisandra? How epic, the lord of light vs dragons! Don't you think Lord of Light(Light and Fire) is most likely to ally with the whole Dragon shenanigans as they are also an element of fire? Yeah. . . Dragons being fire made flesh, kinda hints toward the Lord of Light's servants, who really like fire being rather friendly with the Mother of Dragons. Also, why Season 5? isn't it season 3 right now?
Season 4 I feel like Danny will still be in Essos- Dragons don't grow THAT fast. I bet season 4 will revolve around the Wildling army and the white walkers, (jon leading the nights watch and bran doing some warg shit north of wall) and the Tyrells rise to power after the fall of Tywin, he's basically single handily keeping the Lanaster name relevant, and Magerine is not messing around- girl is going places.
Season 5 is when the dragons come to westeros I bet
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On June 06 2013 03:25 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 03:13 rEalGuapo wrote:On June 06 2013 03:10 Am0n3r wrote:On June 06 2013 02:49 stokes17 wrote:
and now for a total shot in the dark -- season 5 show down between Danny and Mellisandra? How epic, the lord of light vs dragons! Don't you think Lord of Light(Light and Fire) is most likely to ally with the whole Dragon shenanigans as they are also an element of fire? Yeah. . . Dragons being fire made flesh, kinda hints toward the Lord of Light's servants, who really like fire being rather friendly with the Mother of Dragons. Also, why Season 5? isn't it season 3 right now? Season 4 I feel like Danny will still be in Essos- Dragons don't grow THAT fast. I bet season 4 will revolve around the Wildling army and the white walkers, (jon leading the nights watch and bran doing some warg shit north of wall) and the Tyrells rise to power after the fall of Tywin, he's basically single handily keeping the Lanaster name relevant, and Magerine is not messing around- girl is going places. Season 5 is when the dragons come to westeros I bet
Fat fucking chance that happens any time soon... Tywin is a god damn boss! He may be the only Lannister keeping the name relevant but he is so far one of the best at playing the Game, power comes to him naturally.
That being said I agree Margaery is going places, she is smart and is playing Joffrey like a fiddle that plus the backing of her house she is a front runner right now to come out on top as well.
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i'm interested in how these game of gods playout as much the game of thrones.
my guess is that there are magical forces in this world and these gods that people follow are no more than their own way of interpreting this magical force.
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EPT
