On May 01 2013 08:52 killa_robot wrote: I think the biggest issue with the Unsullied is how hot of an environment they're used to. Sure, they can STAND the cold (because of training), but they naturally won't be able to fight as effective as those who have lived in it their whole lives. At this rate Dany will probably hit Westeros as the winter comes, giving her army a severe disadvantage compared to those native of the land (IMO).
In the end, she'll probably just become another player in the game of thrones, not a powerhouse that can stomp all the lands into submission like her ancestors. That being said there's no telling how many people will accept her anyway, given how the last king of her kin was.
There probably won't be that many unsullied left by the time she reaches Westeros, she will have recruited new kinds of infantry. And the col won't be an issue if she is in any way practically minded, like I dunno, putting on wool over their armour?
On May 01 2013 08:52 killa_robot wrote: I think the biggest issue with the Unsullied is how hot of an environment they're used to. Sure, they can STAND the cold (because of training), but they naturally won't be able to fight as effective as those who have lived in it their whole lives. At this rate Dany will probably hit Westeros as the winter comes, giving her army a severe disadvantage compared to those native of the land (IMO).
In the end, she'll probably just become another player in the game of thrones, not a powerhouse that can stomp all the lands into submission like her ancestors. That being said there's no telling how many people will accept her anyway, given how the last king of her kin was.
There probably won't be that many unsullied left by the time she reaches Westeros, she will have recruited new kinds of infantry. And the col won't be an issue if she is in any way practically minded, like I dunno, putting on wool over their armour?
That won't make it any warmer, you need isolation. wind would still kill them
Cut Daenerys hair and make clothes out of it and you will be protected from fire. Because of this she will get prisonned by the Lannisters and they will lock her in a tower. Her hair will grow so much it will touch the ground and they will cut it. With clothes and armors made with her hair, the king's army will be able to defeat stanice and his fire sorceress.
On May 01 2013 23:46 Golondrin wrote: After all that he pushed Bran, killed Ned's men just to make a point, killed Kastark son and even his own nephew.
Killing Karstark's son doesn't make him a bad person. They're at war. Osha killed men to break Bran/Rickon out - that's not treachery, it's bravery. The 'point' he was making by killing Ned's men was 'you're kidnapping and trying to execute my innocent brother, what the fuck'. Pushing Bran, on the other hand, is a hideous act - but not because he's a monstrous person so much as because he's not very subtle where his passions come into it. As he said to Cersei later, he'd kill anyone that threatened to come between them.
Killing the cousin is an act that doesn't seem to fit him, because it comes out of nowhere, is never mentioned again, and was entirely unnecessary.
Not a good person, but his dishonorable attributes are being redeemed heavily: respect for opponents, upholding of vows (remember all the others, to obey one's father and protect the innocent).
I think he is more on the good side, but is corrupted by all the hate and negativity he receives for his legacy as the kingslayer. He has basically been labeled as a traitor and dishonorable man without anyone considering his extreme circumstances with the mad king. And yeah the killing the cousin thing was really random and when I first saw that scene, I guess they were trying to show Jaime as a completely heartless and ruthless person. But then they never touch that again, so I will just pretend that never happened
Jaime has a lot of contempt for society in general and it's hypocritical moral code, so he doesn't always pretend to be "honorable" or "good".
Many people are ignoring a lots of facts about the kingslayer, i can't even begin to comprehend how people can feel sympathetic for him. I'm actually enjoying all the shit he's enduring, and to my eyes he's far from redemption yet.
Not only Jaime broke the oath, spared him of fighting against the rebels to protect his king, and robbed Ned and Robert from his vengeance. He was waiting sitting on the throne, and presumptuously said "he saved them the trouble to kill the king". And you expect people to thank him?
Go watch the bath scene again.
Jaime did a lot of things wrong, but killing the mad king was not one of them.
Also where in the show did they explain that he was sat on the throne?
I believe Ned said that when he had walked in Jaime was sitting on the throne. I forget now who he was talking to, maybe his wife.
It's also in the bonus content found on Season 1 and 2 (you can find them on Youtube) where it describes the scene during Roberts rebellion.
Oh ok. I remember it from reading, but never recalled the show making much of it.
this is all pure speculation (I haven't read the books) what I think could happen!
-The whitewalker invasion of westeros is going to coincide with Dany arriving. Because the houses have been fractured due to all of the conflicts going on with lannister/stark/baratheon etc., the houses won't be able to fight back against the walkers and dany's invasion simultaneously.
-The whitewalkers need to be burned to be fully defeated. Dany will have 3 big ass dragons by then. Dany will seize the throne and then save westeros from the walkers by using her dragons to burn the shit out of them. This will leave her revered as the hero of the seven realms and she will rule over the land justly and honorably.
He killed a bunch of stark important people and just think about it, if you were the bodyguard of a mad president and if you killed him on your own, would you expect people to thank you?
I would. I would expect everyone to acknowledge my contribution to saving thousands of lives and I certainly wouldn't expect to be hated for it.
Many people are ignoring a lots of facts about the kingslayer, i can't even begin to comprehend how people can feel sympathetic for him. I'm actually enjoying all the shit he's enduring, and to my eyes he's far from redemption yet.
To start off, he was a sworn kingsguard. He made an oath, much like crows swear their lifes to the wall, but to the king on Jaime's case. No matter what the king does or commands, the kingsguard only mission is to protect him with their own life.
This part is lightly referenced on the first episodes, when Robert visits the crypts on Winterfell, when Ned meets Jaime on kings landing, and further explained on the youtube videos of lore and history. No book spoilers here, didn't read them
The mad king's son kidnapped Ned sister. The mad king sentence as traitors and kills Ned father and brother for complaining about his son behaviour. Nobody is more eager to have vengeance by his own hand than Ned, and even Robert as he is more temperamental. After a long rebellion, when the victory it's at hand and they arrive to King's landing, Lannisters already swept the city, and the mad king already is slain. Not only Jaime broke the oath, spared him of fighting against the rebels to protect his king, and robbed Ned and Robert from his vengeance. He was waiting sitting on the throne, and presumptuously said "he saved them the trouble to kill the king". And you expect people to thank him?
After all that he pushed Bran, killed Ned's men just to make a point, killed Kastark son and even his own nephew.
Too bad i'm smelling his scourge will end soon, seems like Bolton is treating Jaime as neutral as he can, so he can switch sides and help the Lannisters if things go south with Robbs rebellion.
I'm sorry, but you're being ridiculous. If you worked for an insane psychopath who liked to burn people alive, and then he asked you to cut your fathers head off while he massacred an entire city what would you do?
Jaime's done a lot of bad things, but killing the mad king wasn't one of them.
I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
On May 01 2013 23:46 Golondrin wrote: After all that he pushed Bran, killed Ned's men just to make a point, killed Kastark son and even his own nephew.
Killing Karstark's son doesn't make him a bad person. They're at war. Osha killed men to break Bran/Rickon out - that's not treachery, it's bravery. The 'point' he was making by killing Ned's men was 'you're kidnapping and trying to execute my innocent brother, what the fuck'. Pushing Bran, on the other hand, is a hideous act - but not because he's a monstrous person so much as because he's not very subtle where his passions come into it. As he said to Cersei later, he'd kill anyone that threatened to come between them.
Killing the cousin is an act that doesn't seem to fit him, because it comes out of nowhere, is never mentioned again, and was entirely unnecessary.
Not a good person, but his dishonorable attributes are being redeemed heavily: respect for opponents, upholding of vows (remember all the others, to obey one's father and protect the innocent).
Was it really his cousin? Or was it some relative being a Lannister like a cousin of a cousin or something like that? Still a horrible move. But perhaps he knew he was more important a Lannister and decided to free himself because it would be better for the Lannisters?
The only thing I really hate him for is pushing Bran that was evil...
On May 01 2013 23:46 Golondrin wrote: After all that he pushed Bran, killed Ned's men just to make a point, killed Kastark son and even his own nephew.
Killing Karstark's son doesn't make him a bad person. They're at war. Osha killed men to break Bran/Rickon out - that's not treachery, it's bravery. The 'point' he was making by killing Ned's men was 'you're kidnapping and trying to execute my innocent brother, what the fuck'. Pushing Bran, on the other hand, is a hideous act - but not because he's a monstrous person so much as because he's not very subtle where his passions come into it. As he said to Cersei later, he'd kill anyone that threatened to come between them.
Killing the cousin is an act that doesn't seem to fit him, because it comes out of nowhere, is never mentioned again, and was entirely unnecessary.
Not a good person, but his dishonorable attributes are being redeemed heavily: respect for opponents, upholding of vows (remember all the others, to obey one's father and protect the innocent).
Was it really his cousin? Or was it some relative being a Lannister like a cousin of a cousin or something like that? Still a horrible move. But perhaps he knew he was more important a Lannister and decided to free himself because it would be better for the Lannisters?
The only thing I really hate him for is pushing Bran that was evil...
Some random relative. He could have just as easily faked the situation, I imagine - even if his cousin was executed the blood wouldn't be on his hands and I doubt he was taking that into consideration. It didn't seem very in-character except to show how desperate he was to escape and not be subjugated (he fights Brienne even though Brienne is helping him get to safety, out of principle).
On May 02 2013 04:28 frontliner2 wrote: I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
The Lannisters chopped Ned's head off, harassed Sansa, lost Arya, and tried to kill Bran twice.
If theres one thing we learned about the Starks: its that they live by honor and justice. No fucking way will they EVER make peace, even if it is to fight against Danny and her dragons.
On May 02 2013 04:28 frontliner2 wrote: I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
The Lannisters chopped Ned's head off, harassed Sansa, lost Arya, and tried to kill Bran twice.
If theres one thing we learned about the Starks: its that they live by honor and justice. No fucking way will they EVER make peace, even if it is to fight against Danny and her dragons.
Starks have killed two young Lannisters and chopped the heirs hand off in return so far. It's making it's way towards "balance". They might still hold grudges though, but I personally don't think they would.
On May 02 2013 04:28 frontliner2 wrote: I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
The Lannisters chopped Ned's head off, harassed Sansa, lost Arya, and tried to kill Bran twice.
If theres one thing we learned about the Starks: its that they live by honor and justice. No fucking way will they EVER make peace, even if it is to fight against Danny and her dragons.
Starks have killed two young Lannisters and chopped the heirs hand off in return so far. It's making it's way towards "balance". They might still hold grudges though, but I personally don't think they would.
Starks actually didn't do any of that stuff. Stark bannermen did, so indirectly I suppose but the Lannisters directly committed the harassment and execution of the Starks in your post.
On May 02 2013 04:28 frontliner2 wrote: I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
The Lannisters chopped Ned's head off, harassed Sansa, lost Arya, and tried to kill Bran twice.
If theres one thing we learned about the Starks: its that they live by honor and justice. No fucking way will they EVER make peace, even if it is to fight against Danny and her dragons.
Starks have killed two young Lannisters and chopped the heirs hand off in return so far. It's making it's way towards "balance". They might still hold grudges though, but I personally don't think they would.
Starks actually didn't do any of that stuff. Stark bannermen did, so indirectly I suppose but the Lannisters directly committed the harassment and execution of the Starks in your post.
If you go like that then its only Joffrey who is responsible for Neds death. No other Lannister wanted him dead.
On May 02 2013 04:28 frontliner2 wrote: I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
The Lannisters chopped Ned's head off, harassed Sansa, lost Arya, and tried to kill Bran twice.
If theres one thing we learned about the Starks: its that they live by honor and justice. No fucking way will they EVER make peace, even if it is to fight against Danny and her dragons.
Starks have killed two young Lannisters and chopped the heirs hand off in return so far. It's making it's way towards "balance". They might still hold grudges though, but I personally don't think they would.
Starks actually didn't do any of that stuff. Stark bannermen did, so indirectly I suppose but the Lannisters directly committed the harassment and execution of the Starks in your post.
True, but everyone except the Starks will see it like it was them though. If the Starks consider beheading Ned etc. an act of war I'd say it's classified the same as their underlings killing the enemy lords during war. Lannisters are holding the Stark children captive because of the war as well.
I guess it all comes down to what Rob believes is war or not.
On May 02 2013 04:28 frontliner2 wrote: I somehow hope that the Starks and Lannisters somehow reconcile and excange their captive relatives and fight Dany together :D Tywin and Rob commanding together would be epic :D
The Lannisters chopped Ned's head off, harassed Sansa, lost Arya, and tried to kill Bran twice.
If theres one thing we learned about the Starks: its that they live by honor and justice. No fucking way will they EVER make peace, even if it is to fight against Danny and her dragons.
Starks have killed two young Lannisters and chopped the heirs hand off in return so far. It's making it's way towards "balance". They might still hold grudges though, but I personally don't think they would.
Starks actually didn't do any of that stuff. Stark bannermen did, so indirectly I suppose but the Lannisters directly committed the harassment and execution of the Starks in your post.
If you go like that then its only Joffrey who is responsible for Neds death. No other Lannister wanted him dead.
meh i think there is actually a much bigger difference.
Joffrey is a Lannister, there is less distinction between family members than Bannermen. Also, when Stark Bannermen got out of line (killing the nephews) Rob punished the culprits and executed them for their wrongdoings. Lannister's aren't going to hand over Joffrey, he is family, he is the king, he is a Lannister.
On May 01 2013 23:46 Golondrin wrote: After all that he pushed Bran, killed Ned's men just to make a point, killed Kastark son and even his own nephew.
Killing Karstark's son doesn't make him a bad person. They're at war. Osha killed men to break Bran/Rickon out - that's not treachery, it's bravery. The 'point' he was making by killing Ned's men was 'you're kidnapping and trying to execute my innocent brother, what the fuck'. Pushing Bran, on the other hand, is a hideous act - but not because he's a monstrous person so much as because he's not very subtle where his passions come into it. As he said to Cersei later, he'd kill anyone that threatened to come between them.
Killing the cousin is an act that doesn't seem to fit him, because it comes out of nowhere, is never mentioned again, and was entirely unnecessary.
Not a good person, but his dishonorable attributes are being redeemed heavily: respect for opponents, upholding of vows (remember all the others, to obey one's father and protect the innocent).
Was it really his cousin? Or was it some relative being a Lannister like a cousin of a cousin or something like that? Still a horrible move. But perhaps he knew he was more important a Lannister and decided to free himself because it would be better for the Lannisters?
The only thing I really hate him for is pushing Bran that was evil...
Actually, pushing Bran really wasnt evil. I mean clearly it was an immoral action, but I think the evil of hurting a child is outweighed in this case by what it avoids. If Bran didnt die [or at least lost his memory] he would expose Jaimes incest. Which means his three children would be put to death, who are innocents in all this, and his sister and himself would be branded traitors. Thus sparking a civil war against the Lannisters, resulting, ultimately, in his death, his brothers death, his father and his sisters, nevermind the tens of thousands from combat and disease. I'd of pushed the fucker out the window too.
EPT
