[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 606

On July 24 2012 01:24 starfries wrote:


edit: Now that I think of it, this might be a stroke of brilliance on Tywin's part. If they had just brought the prisoners to him straight away, then she'd probably off him without a second thought. But after being terrorized by the Tickler, most of the prisoners' anger and hatred is directed at him, while Tywin is cast as a savior figure. So any good guys in there who happen to hold the power of life and death will, being good guys, think twice about killing someone who just saved their lives.

On July 30 2012 22:34 Mr.Faces wrote:
Top idiots are surely the Starks, captained by Neddy and closely followed by his wife and son.

King Robert was not very wise either...

On July 30 2012 22:56 Toadesstern wrote:

I actually consider the female starks to be way more stupid. Ned is more of a naive guy imo, which obviously is a kind of being stupid if you put your life on the line but it's not the same stupid-stupid like Catelyn and Sansa.

I actually can't remember a lot about Sansa from season two (tbh, it's mostly the same thing all over again, isn't it?) but that girl really annoyed me royally pretty much every time I saw her.
I can at least see why Catelyn is acting so stupid. She lost her kids and she's desperate to get them back, so I get why she's not acting rational and instead did some things without thinking about them for a second, which ended up killing Ned and her daughter being a hostage.
But Sansa is completly tripping balls without a reason.

On July 30 2012 23:35 Cel.erity wrote:


How exactly has Sansa demonstrated any stupidity? She's playing the game quite well for being in such a disadvantaged position, I'd say.

Annoying and stuck up != stupid.

On July 31 2012 00:02 Toadesstern wrote:

Turning to Cersei to tell her how (and when) Ned planed on leaving Kingslanding by ship to bring everyone back probably wasn't the smartest move, was it?
I don't know if it really did matter but I'd say that and capturing Tyrion while everyone was still in KL was the reason everything went from bad to "omfg everyone's going to die".

On July 31 2012 00:34 Necro)Phagist( wrote:

Also don't forget her brilliant decision of deciding to stay back at kings landing instead of leaving with the hound who would have gotten her home safe. But no, she decides to stay with Jeoffrey with the chance of him losing and hoping Stannis would be nice to her..

On July 31 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:

I actually haven't understood that scene at all and don't know what happened.
Yes I saw the scene and what you described is what it looked like but I doubt that's what happened. THAT would be just beyond belief.
I assumed something happened that did not end up getting a scene and so they had no time to flee to begin with.

I just don't remember a lot about her because she did not do a lot of things while being a hostage but those things I remember are all wtf-moments.
Remember the end of s2 when Joffrey confirms that he won't marry her anymore and she's all happy because she thinks she can now leave and return to Winterfell (until Littlefinger points out that's not what's going to happen) ?
That's what I'm talking about. She's not even thinking about what's happening, taking what she thinks to be true as the truth and imagening that everything will end nice and people will hold hands because she imagined it that way.

The scenes from s1 with the butchers boy, Arya, Joffrey, herself, Lady (later on when she realized that the dog is to be executed) and aryas dog (forgot the name) wasn't exactly a moment of brilliance either.

On July 31 2012 00:55 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


She's also what, 16? -.- What in the fuck do you expect her to think, her father was beheaded, she was set to marry the man responsible and above all else she lived a quiet life until the last better part of a year, my god if she makes a mistake or two along the way hahaha. Ned? Ned was smart, he knew shit and how to handle it but he did not understand the lack of honor and that is what killed him, he expected the people to have the same sense of honor and if they had of he would have been just fine. Naivety is not stupidity.

Both the bastard and Rob have proven to be quite smart (although snow has been rather naive himself at times) so I think we're pointing the finger a bit much calling them all stupid. Look at aria, she's been quite the quick wit herself along with the boy.

On July 31 2012 03:14 Zahir wrote:
Jon is as dumb, stubborn and direct as a sack of bricks. Any insult thrown his way never fails to provoke him, and Sam and the other nights watch newbs are always having to explain the stupidity of his brash, hot blooded, unthought out decisions.

His sick wolf, stark heritage and fighting skills are all that's kept him Alive. He is admirable though, in an unrelentingly stubborn, ever plodding onward sort of way. Definitely inherited the stark honorable streak.

Arya is one clever little rapscallion, though. Watch out for that one. Bran too. His only remaining muscle is his overdeveloped brain.

I don't think you can call any of the Starks (other than snow, possibly) DUMB, per se. Save that for Guys like the greatjon and hodor (though I suspect the latter is a medieval kaiser soze). They are intelligent folk, but outclassed in a world filled with little fingers, spiders and lord tywins.

Theons decisions were all pretty stupid though.

On July 31 2012 03:14 Zahir wrote:
Jon is as dumb, stubborn and direct as a sack of bricks. Any insult thrown his way never fails to provoke him, and Sam and the other nights watch newbs are always having to explain the stupidity of his brash, hot blooded, unthought out decisions.

His sick wolf, stark heritage and fighting skills are all that's kept him Alive. He is admirable though, in an unrelentingly stubborn, ever plodding onward sort of way. Definitely inherited the stark honorable streak.

Arya is one clever little rapscallion, though. Watch out for that one. Bran too. His only remaining muscle is his overdeveloped brain.

I don't think you can call any of the Starks (other than snow, possibly) DUMB, per se. Save that for Guys like the greatjon and hodor (though I suspect the latter is a medieval kaiser soze). They are intelligent folk, but outclassed in a world filled with little fingers, spiders and lord tywins.

Theons decisions were all pretty stupid though.

On July 31 2012 02:55 Euronyme wrote:
Ned is more like the last samurai. He values honour above all else, and that's about it. It's not really stupid, he's just a man who's following the old ways until the grave.

On August 01 2012 03:06 Kyuukyuu wrote:
When considering the relative intelligence of all the Stark children, you have to remember that the show is based on the plot of the book, where the characters are much younger. In the books Sansa is what, 11 years old? How smart were you at 11? She is naive, has wonderful thoughts of marrying her shining prince and in her ignorance ratted out her family. At that age it's perfectly normal for a kid to side with her friends instead of her siblings - think of how you and a friend probably ganged up to make fun of a younger brother or something when you were little. You idolize the unfamiliar adult things and put them in front of family for the time being, which is exactly what happened with Arya and Micah and Lady.

After she fucks everything up, she plays the game as well as she can under the circumstances:
- Realizes she has to turn on her family, at least on the outside, in order to survive; eg. "my traitor brother" etc
- She's happy when Joffrey decides not to marry her not because she thinks she can go back to Winterfell, but because wtf who wants to marry Joffrey after knowing him for that long
- Doesn't go with the Hound, because there's a FUCKING WAR out there and maybe she doesn't want to walk right in the middle of it with a goddamn murderer who every single faction will want dead

So yes, Sansa is dumb the way 11 year old girls whose fathers have just been decapitated are dumb. Go figure? She seems stupider in the show because the actress is obviously not 12 but I think most people in this thread are cognisant by now of the fact that show characters have been aged up from their book counterparts.

On August 01 2012 03:33 Irrelevant Label wrote:


This is all quite true. The conversation being had regarding some of these characters, the young ones, is more or less the product of this thread's arbitrary rule about not touching the books with a ten foot pole and television/child pornography related regulatory laws forcing characters to be older than their book incarnations rather than any real story elements.



Ned did what he did because he was sticking to his principles. He lost because he was naive. He let himself think he had someone like Littlefinger's support and that more broadly there were enough other people around who would respect the things he did for him to have enough support to win against Cersei. He did not actually have any such support.

He did not walk into that throne room thinking/knowing that he was marching into a black cell as would need to have been the case for the "not stupid or naive, just sticking to his principles at all costs" model to be a very good one.

On July 30 2012 23:35 Cel.erity wrote:


How exactly has Sansa demonstrated any stupidity? She's playing the game quite well for being in such a disadvantaged position, I'd say.

Annoying and stuck up != stupid.