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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On July 30 2012 22:45 Diizzy wrote:
idk ign describe dany as a villan but i actually thinks she one of the kinder characters. cant wait til her dragons grow up and destroy everything gg.
Why isnt she a villain? Without any actual claim to Westeros she wants to comeback and kill everyone. And why? Because through a random fluke she has dragons. Is she going to be a better ruler? No. Does she have any kind of plan? No. Just fly in, kill all resistance and then re-live her ancestors conquests. Just like him, all she does is add an extra tax layer on the overburdened peasantry and provides a ready excuse for local nobles for raising ever higher taxes on the poor, "because the far off foreigner queen demands it!"
The only hero left in this show is Littlefinger, who is trying to shine the small light of meritocracy onto the inbred cesspool of incompetence that is the high nobility of that whole planet and the poor Night Watch guys who - after decades of repressing the democratic and free wildlings out of their own sexual frustration- will finally earn their keep by fighting the invasion force from whatever that planet Avatar was set on.
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On August 01 2012 10:39 Papulatus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 23:35 Cel.erity wrote:On July 30 2012 22:56 Toadesstern wrote:On July 30 2012 22:34 Mr.Faces wrote:
Top idiots are surely the Starks, captained by Neddy and closely followed by his wife and son.
King Robert was not very wise either... I actually consider the female starks to be way more stupid. Ned is more of a naive guy imo, which obviously is a kind of being stupid if you put your life on the line but it's not the same stupid-stupid like Catelyn and Sansa. I actually can't remember a lot about Sansa from season two (tbh, it's mostly the same thing all over again, isn't it?) but that girl really annoyed me royally pretty much every time I saw her. I can at least see why Catelyn is acting so stupid. She lost her kids and she's desperate to get them back, so I get why she's not acting rational and instead did some things without thinking about them for a second, which ended up killing Ned and her daughter being a hostage. But Sansa is completly tripping balls without a reason. How exactly has Sansa demonstrated any stupidity? She's playing the game quite well for being in such a disadvantaged position, I'd say. Annoying and stuck up != stupid. Sansa isn't a player of the game, she's a piece. Cersei, Stannis, and everyone else is interested in Sansa's claim to Winterfell more than Sansa her self. Since Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead, and Arya is missing, Sansa is heir to Winterfell.
Pretty sure that traitors to the throne, which is what Starks are in the views of both the Lannister court as explicitly stated by Joffrey and the Stanis claimants (because the Starks declared independence from the Iron throne), dont get to keep their claims. Wouldnt be surprised that if Robb loses, which his incompetence and Catlyn's interference strongly suggests when facing the Lanisters + whatever the name of the gay-knights-and-his-highly-ambitious-and-hot-sister family. So once they get their shit together and overrun River Run from two sides the Starks are done.
Of course Cercei says they need someone to actually rule the North since an occupation force wont survive but since Joffrey is a nutbar I could just see him try to kill all the high nobility that is left in the North and just let it become some sort of wildling 2.0 while pulling back the imperial troops to a few garrisons and then guarding the neck.
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Claim to the throne? No one has a true "claim" to anything when that kingdom was created by those strong enough to make it...Robert had a shitty claim and even then only to a made up entity built by the strongest warlord (with dragons)
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On August 01 2012 11:50 Elegy wrote:
Claim to the throne? No one has a true "claim" to anything when that kingdom was created by those strong enough to make it...Robert had a shitty claim and even then only to a made up entity built by the strongest warlord (with dragons)
Well, ya. Ditto the Queen of England. But just like the Queen, if the people perceive you as 'the real' king then you are in fact the real king. Which is why the Lannister inbreeds arent called Joffrey Lannister but Joffrey Baratheon. Because as far as the peoples are concerned the dynastic claim is Baratheon.
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On August 01 2012 11:50 Elegy wrote:
Claim to the throne? No one has a true "claim" to anything when that kingdom was created by those strong enough to make it...Robert had a shitty claim and even then only to a made up entity built by the strongest warlord (with dragons)
Claims serve a purpose though. There are loads of lords and high lords in Westeros that would follow Daenarys if she returned, purely because she's a Targaryen and she's from a straight line of kings. They're living in the medieval times, and basically blood line is the most important thing there is.
An example is that killing a member of your house is one of the worst (if not the worst) crimes there are, while killing a man in general is just neutral.
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Dany is in a pretty awkward position right now. Her plan is, basically, to use her name and lineage to win over some of the more influential houses in the seven kingdoms. Now this would have worked if she landed right as the first season ended, when alliances weren't so established. She could have called on the Tyrells (who were the Targs' most loyal allies) and perhaps the Dornish to fight for her. Now, the Tyrells are with Joffrey and there's no way Dany is gonna have anything going with Stannis. So she basically only has Dorne as a potential ally. Her lineage and blood really aren't gonna be that useful in the face of a firm Lannister-Tyrell alliance and Stannis being a total dick to the Targs after the little siege he had to sit through at Dragonstone near the end of the war.
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Just saw the last 2 episodes... wow.
As a Zerg player I can sympathize with Stannis. There comes a moment when you have so much more than the opponent that you just a-move in the worst fucking engagement possible.
Only to get killed by OP splash damage and imba walls.
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In regards to Stannis/Zerg analogy - his 300 supply army push made him overconfident and the lack of scouting/detection AND fire weaponsl lvl3 upgrade led him right into an ambush of a heavily teched and ready army - even though outnumbered drastically.
He never saw the imba tyrell/lannister blink/dt attack as well as they flanked him from behind as well ;-(
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Take it to the book readers thread. Most people here aren't going to know who Marbrand is.
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On August 01 2012 15:44 MilesTeg wrote:
Just saw the last 2 episodes... wow.
As a Zerg player I can sympathize with Stannis. There comes a moment when you have so much more than the opponent that you just a-move in the worst fucking engagement possible.
Only to get killed by OP splash damage and imba walls.
Stannis didn't lose to the wild fire, although the wild fire did delay him significantly, he ultimately lost to the 80,000 strong Mace Tyrell/Tywin Lannister army.
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On August 01 2012 13:20 Escavalier wrote:
Dany is in a pretty awkward position right now. Her plan is, basically, to use her name and lineage to win over some of the more influential houses in the seven kingdoms. Now this would have worked if she landed right as the first season ended, when alliances weren't so established. She could have called on the Tyrells (who were the Targs' most loyal allies) and perhaps the Dornish to fight for her. Now, the Tyrells are with Joffrey and there's no way Dany is gonna have anything going with Stannis. So she basically only has Dorne as a potential ally. Her lineage and blood really aren't gonna be that useful in the face of a firm Lannister-Tyrell alliance and Stannis being a total dick to the Targs after the little siege he had to sit through at Dragonstone near the end of the war.
Well Dorne is actually the closest ally to the Iron Throne, as Rhaegar (the son and heir of the mad king Aerys Targaryen) married a princess of Dorne who was murdered along with her children by Tywin Lannister.
This is something most likely wasn't forgotten.
Dorne would most certainly follow Daenarys. The Dornish are however the scarcest populated and wouldn't even stand a chance against the Lannisters, let alone a Lannister alliance with the Tyrells.
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On August 01 2012 10:45 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 22:45 Diizzy wrote:
idk ign describe dany as a villan but i actually thinks she one of the kinder characters. cant wait til her dragons grow up and destroy everything gg. Why isnt she a villain? Without any actual claim to Westeros she wants to comeback and kill everyone. And why? Because through a random fluke she has dragons. Is she going to be a better ruler? No. Does she have any kind of plan? No. Just fly in, kill all resistance and then re-live her ancestors conquests. Just like him, all she does is add an extra tax layer on the overburdened peasantry and provides a ready excuse for local nobles for raising ever higher taxes on the poor, "because the far off foreigner queen demands it!" The only hero left in this show is Littlefinger, who is trying to shine the small light of meritocracy onto the inbred cesspool of incompetence that is the high nobility of that whole planet and the poor Night Watch guys who - after decades of repressing the democratic and free wildlings out of their own sexual frustration- will finally earn their keep by fighting the invasion force from whatever that planet Avatar was set on.
Lol, go read the boooks!
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On August 01 2012 10:48 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 10:39 Papulatus wrote:On July 30 2012 23:35 Cel.erity wrote:On July 30 2012 22:56 Toadesstern wrote:On July 30 2012 22:34 Mr.Faces wrote:
Top idiots are surely the Starks, captained by Neddy and closely followed by his wife and son.
King Robert was not very wise either... I actually consider the female starks to be way more stupid. Ned is more of a naive guy imo, which obviously is a kind of being stupid if you put your life on the line but it's not the same stupid-stupid like Catelyn and Sansa. I actually can't remember a lot about Sansa from season two (tbh, it's mostly the same thing all over again, isn't it?) but that girl really annoyed me royally pretty much every time I saw her. I can at least see why Catelyn is acting so stupid. She lost her kids and she's desperate to get them back, so I get why she's not acting rational and instead did some things without thinking about them for a second, which ended up killing Ned and her daughter being a hostage. But Sansa is completly tripping balls without a reason. How exactly has Sansa demonstrated any stupidity? She's playing the game quite well for being in such a disadvantaged position, I'd say. Annoying and stuck up != stupid. Sansa isn't a player of the game, she's a piece. Cersei, Stannis, and everyone else is interested in Sansa's claim to Winterfell more than Sansa her self. Since Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead, and Arya is missing, Sansa is heir to Winterfell. Pretty sure that traitors to the throne, which is what Starks are in the views of both the Lannister court as explicitly stated by Joffrey and the Stanis claimants (because the Starks declared independence from the Iron throne), dont get to keep their claims. Wouldnt be surprised that if Robb loses, which his incompetence and Catlyn's interference strongly suggests when facing the Lanisters + whatever the name of the gay-knights-and-his-highly-ambitious-and-hot-sister family. So once they get their shit together and overrun River Run from two sides the Starks are done. Of course Cercei says they need someone to actually rule the North since an occupation force wont survive but since Joffrey is a nutbar I could just see him try to kill all the high nobility that is left in the North and just let it become some sort of wildling 2.0 while pulling back the imperial troops to a few garrisons and then guarding the neck.
You need a northerner to rule the north. The north will never follow a ruler placed there with no connection to the starks or the north(this is said in S1 when Cersei and Joffrey are discussing how to rule a kingdom or something). Marrying Sansa to someone to rule winterfell would make it more legit in the eyes of the north.
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On August 01 2012 13:20 Escavalier wrote:
Dany is in a pretty awkward position right now. Her plan is, basically, to use her name and lineage to win over some of the more influential houses in the seven kingdoms. Now this would have worked if she landed right as the first season ended, when alliances weren't so established. She could have called on the Tyrells (who were the Targs' most loyal allies) and perhaps the Dornish to fight for her. Now, the Tyrells are with Joffrey and there's no way Dany is gonna have anything going with Stannis. So she basically only has Dorne as a potential ally. Her lineage and blood really aren't gonna be that useful in the face of a firm Lannister-Tyrell alliance and Stannis being a total dick to the Targs after the little siege he had to sit through at Dragonstone near the end of the war.
Doesn't Dany also have "destiny" on her side? I seem to remember a prophecy about her.
She's seems like the Mary Sue-esque heroine. She certainly has a lot of the traits. She's hot, but acts oblivious. She has prophecies about her. She has ancient mystical powers and the only dragons in the world. She's inexplicably successful despite poor decision making. The whole world seems to be against her. She's the only one who can understand the burdens she bears, and she refuses to share it with anyone. And she's completely unlikable.
So I'm sure she'll manage to raise an army somehow, even if she squanders all the goodwill she has left.
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On August 06 2012 04:30 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 13:20 Escavalier wrote:
Dany is in a pretty awkward position right now. Her plan is, basically, to use her name and lineage to win over some of the more influential houses in the seven kingdoms. Now this would have worked if she landed right as the first season ended, when alliances weren't so established. She could have called on the Tyrells (who were the Targs' most loyal allies) and perhaps the Dornish to fight for her. Now, the Tyrells are with Joffrey and there's no way Dany is gonna have anything going with Stannis. So she basically only has Dorne as a potential ally. Her lineage and blood really aren't gonna be that useful in the face of a firm Lannister-Tyrell alliance and Stannis being a total dick to the Targs after the little siege he had to sit through at Dragonstone near the end of the war. Doesn't Dany also have "destiny" on her side? I seem to remember a prophecy about her. She's seems like the Mary Sue-esque heroine. She certainly has a lot of the traits. She's hot, but acts oblivious. She has prophecies about her. She has ancient mystical powers and the only dragons in the world. She's inexplicably successful despite poor decision making. The whole world seems to be against her. She's the only one who can understand the burdens she bears, and she refuses to share it with anyone. And she's completely unlikable. So I'm sure she'll manage to raise an army somehow, even if she squanders all the goodwill she has left.
It's still not clear if she's really the Azor Ahai reborn/the prince that was promised. Prophecies tend to be fickle and treacherous.
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Zurich15365 Posts
On August 06 2012 04:41 DarkSpectre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 04:30 starfries wrote:On August 01 2012 13:20 Escavalier wrote:
Dany is in a pretty awkward position right now. Her plan is, basically, to use her name and lineage to win over some of the more influential houses in the seven kingdoms. Now this would have worked if she landed right as the first season ended, when alliances weren't so established. She could have called on the Tyrells (who were the Targs' most loyal allies) and perhaps the Dornish to fight for her. Now, the Tyrells are with Joffrey and there's no way Dany is gonna have anything going with Stannis. So she basically only has Dorne as a potential ally. Her lineage and blood really aren't gonna be that useful in the face of a firm Lannister-Tyrell alliance and Stannis being a total dick to the Targs after the little siege he had to sit through at Dragonstone near the end of the war. Doesn't Dany also have "destiny" on her side? I seem to remember a prophecy about her. She's seems like the Mary Sue-esque heroine. She certainly has a lot of the traits. She's hot, but acts oblivious. She has prophecies about her. She has ancient mystical powers and the only dragons in the world. She's inexplicably successful despite poor decision making. The whole world seems to be against her. She's the only one who can understand the burdens she bears, and she refuses to share it with anyone. And she's completely unlikable. So I'm sure she'll manage to raise an army somehow, even if she squanders all the goodwill she has left. It's still not clear if she's really the Azor Ahai reborn/the prince that was promised. Prophecies tend to be fickle and treacherous.
Seems like you mistook this thread for the book / spoiler thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225659
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Her flaws are rather many and glaring for the label "Mary Sue" to be thrown around, but stepping back from literal definitions I get what you mean and agree. It's like if someone just assumed that she is supposed to be a person to root for and didn't bother providing much reason to like her. Dragons are awesome, she is somewhat cool with her bloodriders and Jorah...but that doesn't come close to cutting it against this shrill "I want my throne" bimbo. A shallow scene of Jorah claiming she is a good ruler to support doesn't cut it. They need to have shown it, not just say it.
Edit: What is Azor Ahai? *ahem*
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EPT
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