EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 603
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lightrise
United States1355 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On July 20 2012 04:39 lightrise wrote: Are you serious where is the knight of flowers in this poll haha. I would definitively choose him and then Jaime Loras Tyrell is a jouster (lol) not a fighter. When we did see him fight he got beaten by Brienne. Hardly convincing that he is the best in the realm. I'd say, purely based on what we've seen so far, that Bronn and the Hound are by far the most impressive. It also would have been interesting to see what Syrio Forel could have done with a real sword. Barristan and Jaime have impressive reputations, but we haven't seen them do a whole lot of fighting. | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
this should be in the op amazing song. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:08 Kznn wrote: + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL7RWUva7ak this should be in the op amazing song. that is amazing. here is another good one i found in the related videos: | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:08 Kznn wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL7RWUva7ak this should be in the op amazing song. can't resist the urge to post this (possibly re-post) i die every time i watch it | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On July 20 2012 04:50 ZasZ. wrote: Loras Tyrell is a jouster (lol) not a fighter. When we did see him fight he got beaten by Brienne. Hardly convincing that he is the best in the realm. I'd say, purely based on what we've seen so far, that Bronn and the Hound are by far the most impressive. It also would have been interesting to see what Syrio Forel could have done with a real sword. Barristan and Jaime have impressive reputations, but we haven't seen them do a whole lot of fighting. yeah i didnt include loras because he already lost to brienne. i should have included syrio and barristan as two more options, but they didnt show up in ep2 and i just forgot about them | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
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Archerylady
277 Posts
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On July 19 2012 21:48 Probasaur wrote: Would you had preferred she spent the next however many seasons with a suckling at her breast and letting drogo do all the cool shit?? I wouldnt. Yes, Dany is an idiot and could really use a good assassinating. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
I don't see how Loras can be placed ahead of someone he is shown to have lost to in 1v1 melee, otherwise that is more or less my sense of it as well. I'd simply clump him into that final grouping of noteworthy-but-not-so-greats. To state them broadly rather than trying to just state ranks: Barristan is a living legend, Jaime is supposed to be as good, there are a couple of other top end combatants whose style is not that of a Westerosi knight so it's harder to judge in a head to head but they should be around the top, then it's the Cleganes somewhere high-ish, then some people who are quite good and probably better than "typical knight" but ultimately nothing that amazing other than being focused characters, then finally people who are not good but characters of some import so some want to think they are good. Then Drogon grows up and ruins everything. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
edit: Gahhh. My bad, that wasn't Loras at Blackwater that got shot. Blond-haired look-alikes. | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
On July 22 2012 00:13 Leporello wrote: Loras in the Blackwater Battle was underwhelming at best. He got a kill I think, but then took an arrow and was the first one walking off the field, went to Cersei literally whimpering. Not a good impression. I can understand why Barristan isn't on the poll, as he basically wasn't in season 2. But he should be anyways. Watch the scene with Jaime and that squire boy in the cage, just before Jaime makes his first escape. He basically says Barristan is the best there is. Barristan Selmy>all. You have Loras confused with the Lannister cousin that is sleeping with Cersei. Loras came in at the end on a horse in Renly's armor. | ||
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Hypf
Germany3 Posts
On July 22 2012 00:15 frogrubdown wrote: You have Loras confused with the Lannister cousin that is sleeping with Cersei. Loras came in at the end on a horse in Renly's armor. His name is Lancel. | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
What's better to discuss is the rankings of brains/wits since we've obviously witnessed every character's. Here's my ranking: 1 - Tyrion / Varys 2 - Varys / Tyrion 3 - Littlefinger 4 - Arya 5 - Cersei I didn't include Tywin because we haven't really seen enough of him to judge. He could really go anywhere on this list. I'm leaning him towards #1 or #2 at the moment. Explanation: Tyrion and Varys are both incredibly cunning but we haven't really seen them conflict with each other. Tyrion > Littlefinger because LF fell for Tyrion's scheme when he promised him harranhall. Arya has quick-thinking and she's very overall intelligent Cersei, I hesitated to put her in here because of her bad decisions from time to time. But she has shown that she is calculating, like the time she immediately reacted to her husband's death. She tore up the King's paper in front of court. She advised her son from killing Ned. You can tell from her scenes that she has a cruel personality that helps her make decisions to advance her position. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
On July 22 2012 00:44 GhostOwl wrote: It's funny how we're discussing the rankings of swordmanship/fighting when we have barely seen them in action. We just know it through the dialogues. What's better to discuss is the rankings of brains/wits since we've obviously witnessed every character's. Here's my ranking: 1 - Tyrion / Varys 2 - Varys / Tyrion 3 - Littlefinger 4 - Arya 5 - Cersei I didn't include Tywin because we haven't really seen enough of him to judge. He could really go anywhere on this list. I'm leaning him towards #1 or #2 at the moment. Explanation: Tyrion and Varys are both incredibly cunning but we haven't really seen them conflict with each other. Tyrion > Littlefinger because LF fell for Tyrion's scheme when he promised him harranhall. Arya has quick-thinking and she's very overall intelligent Cersei, I hesitated to put her in here because of her bad decisions from time to time. But she has shown that she is calculating, like the time she immediately reacted to her husband's death. She tore up the King's paper in front of court. She advised her son from killing Ned. You can tell from her scenes that she has a cruel personality that helps her make decisions to advance her position. + Show Spoiler + A "dumbest" list without Theon? No way. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
It's also hard to rank the schemers because some of them have very low-risk plots focused on staying alive, while others have aspirations to the throne which imo deserves extra points for difficulty. My list would be 1: Tywin - I'd put him around the same as Varys, but he comes out ahead since he's playing for the throne. Most importantly, out of the throne-grabbers he has the most patience. 2: Varys - he seems to have the best long-term plans, lasting longer than kingdoms. 3: Xaro Xhoan Daxos - he became the most powerful man in Qarth from absolutely nothing, with an empty vault to boot. Unfortunately a victim of the stupidity field that seems to surround Dany, which puts him lower than the top 2. 4: Tyrion - inexperienced, but he's managed to pull off things that should have gotten him killed many times over. He has a pretty big weakness in Shea, which I think will come into play at some point, but who can really fault him for liking Shea? And she's intelligent in her own right. 5: Littlefinger - he's playing for survival like Varys, but isn't as solid. And there's Lady Catelyn, but since he's been solidly friend-zoned, it's not as big of a weakness. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
Haha, stupidity field around Dany. That is more or less the perfect way to describe it. Sadly she hasn't gotten it tuned correctly yet to not inflict friendly and even self fire. Quaithe and Illyrio need to share the secret of their shielding. Illyrio belongs right next to Varys. They are essentially the same entity for scheme/team purposes. Xaro conned his way into Qarth's elite but never took much real power and when he did try he flubbed it pretty horribly. He's noteworthy enough, but no master. Tyrion walked right into the fall from grace that was seen coming months away at the end of season two. However good he may be at the game he still shows signs of lacking either foresight and/or ambition or perhaps being too honorable and I can't put him ahead of Littlefinger because of that. Results matter, and he pretty nearly pulled a Ned with regard to results. Letting himself get so thoroughly cast aside and charging off to lead a counter attack to save the city? Really? A leader's effectiveness is partially a matter the people he surrounds himself with and delegates responsibilities to. As strong as Tywin is he fails with people. From misappropriating (or even misparenting resulting in this mismatched talents and expectations) the skills of his children and letting them screw things up or allowing a couple lackwits to be on his counsels he gets a bit burned for his lack of top level HR management. Varys might be playing for safety on the surface but underneath he is trying to put a Targaryen back on the throne with Illyrio while keeping everything (successfully mind you) at the right levels of stability/instability in according with their schedule. That is...yeah, top end stuff. I'd switch the two on top to put Varys/Illyrio on top and Tywin second, flip Littlefinger and Xaro and seriously have to consider putting Tyrion behind Xaro, and then add Margaery as notable enough to be worth listing 6th, and then Cersei as 7 because despite her ineptitude she is more or less obligatory given her involvement as a player. Varys/Illyrio Tywin Littlefinger Tyrion Xaro Margaery Cersei ...and for the sarcasm list Sam (for managing Jon and eventually hooking him up with a ranger assignment) Sansa (saving Dontos) Arya (naming Jaqen) ...and the negative list 1. Ned 2. Joffrey* (it is tempting to place his above Ned but results, yadda yadda) 3. Viserys 4. Robb* 5. Cat 6. Theon (as tempting as it is to put him up with Ned/Joff he didn't actually do anything that amazingly stupid, just pretty stupid and he is in a very bad set of situations) 7. Dany* * denotes that the character is particularly young enough that it could be argued that they should be given some to perhaps a lot of leeway which I did not afford here. After all, it has been discussed how a couple from the top list (LF, Tyr) did some pretty amazingly naive or outright stupid things when they were the age of a couple of these characters. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
Barristan is too old. maybe thirty years ago or something. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On July 22 2012 02:30 Irrelevant Label wrote: + Show Spoiler + Woah, Littlefinger is just playing for survival and not trying to move up? No way, he had the whole scene that birthed the term "sexposition" establishing the contrary and since then his aspirations to become a regional highlord and even king have come up numerous times. He got played by Tyrion as part of the mole hunt but since has done a lot, from manipulating Cersei (ok, so maybe Hodor could do that...) but then orchestrating the Tyrell/Lannister alliance while running his own schemes to hedge his bets with all the factions involved in the war. He got momentarily humbled by Tywin's riposte when discussing politics but otherwise has been making headway. He is, afterall, now the lord Harrenhall and with it the Riverlands according to the powers that be in KL. Haha, stupidity field around Dany. That is more or less the perfect way to describe it. Sadly she hasn't gotten it tuned correctly yet to not inflict friendly and even self fire. Quaithe and Illyrio need to share the secret of their shielding. Illyrio belongs right next to Varys. They are essentially the same entity for scheme/team purposes. Xaro conned his way into Qarth's elite but never took much real power and when he did try he flubbed it pretty horribly. He's noteworthy enough, but no master. Tyrion walked right into the fall from grace that was seen coming months away at the end of season two. However good he may be at the game he still shows signs of lacking either foresight and/or ambition or perhaps being too honorable and I can't put him ahead of Littlefinger because of that. Results matter, and he pretty nearly pulled a Ned with regard to results. Letting himself get so thoroughly cast aside and charging off to lead a counter attack to save the city? Really? A leader's effectiveness is partially a matter the people he surrounds himself with and delegates responsibilities to. As strong as Tywin is he fails with people. From misappropriating (or even misparenting resulting in this mismatched talents and expectations) the skills of his children and letting them screw things up or allowing a couple lackwits to be on his counsels he gets a bit burned for his lack of top level HR management. Varys might be playing for safety on the surface but underneath he is trying to put a Targaryen back on the throne with Illyrio while keeping everything (successfully mind you) at the right levels of stability/instability in according with their schedule. That is...yeah, top end stuff. I'd switch the two on top to put Varys/Illyrio on top and Tywin second, flip Littlefinger and Xaro and seriously have to consider putting Tyrion behind Xaro, and then add Margaery as notable enough to be worth listing 6th, and then Cersei as 7 because despite her ineptitude she is more or less obligatory given her involvement as a player. Varys/Illyrio Tywin Littlefinger Tyrion Xaro Margaery Cersei ...and for the sarcasm list Sam (for managing Jon and eventually hooking him up with a ranger assignment) Sansa (saving Dontos) Arya (naming Jaqen) ...and the negative list 1. Ned 2. Joffrey* (it is tempting to place his above Ned but results, yadda yadda) 3. Viserys 4. Robb* 5. Cat 6. Theon (as tempting as it is to put him up with Ned/Joff he didn't actually do anything that amazingly stupid, just pretty stupid and he is in a very bad set of situations) 7. Dany* * denotes that the character is particularly young enough that it could be argued that they should be given some to perhaps a lot of leeway which I did not afford here. After all, it has been discussed how a couple from the top list (LF, Tyr) did some pretty amazingly naive or outright stupid things when they were the age of a couple of these characters. Hmm, I think our difference in opinion is mostly because I haven't read the books I had to look up who Illyrio was. If he's done what you say, though, I have no problem putting him with Varys and above Tywin. Admittedly, I also forgot about Littlefinger's scenes with the throne, but I'm still hesitant to put him too high because he gets pushed around a little too much for my liking. Out of the top players, he seems to have the least backbone, and I have to count that against him. I mean, if you earn your place in the world by slapping bitches, you're just not going to end up as badass as someone who earns it by slapping Joffrey. I'd argue Xaro's coup was actually quite well executed, given that he took out eleven of the Thirteen and turned it into a monarchy in one stroke without sending the city into complete chaos. It really only failed because Pyat Pree got greedy with wanting both Dany and the dragons alive and in the same room and then was dumb enough to stand in front of dragonfire (in the show; after some quick research it seems this part went down differently in the books). And in my opinion just being one of the Thirteen is power enough, even if it's mostly limited to Qarth. Given that Tyrion was only acting as Hand in Tywin's place, I won't fault him too much for eventually having to give up the spot. Maybe a better man could have secured a permanent position, but given that you're playing against Tywin I wouldn't feel too bad about a loss. Tyrion's heroism could easily have been a disaster, but I almost give him a pass on this one too because he earned enough plot armor that he stood a decent chance of pulling it off, even taking into account that anyone can die in this series. He had to call in every karmic favor he had, but sometimes you just gotta hit people with an axe. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit because I like the character, but overall I think it's a solid showing for a newcomer, even if he's getting dangerously close to earning a death by heroism. Speaking of Tywin, I agree his HR department needs work, but I'm going to chalk up the incompetence of his staff to the evil overlord effect. I think Tywin himself is more than capable enough to make up for it. I like the honorary placement of Cersei for participation. She's dangerous, but seems to be more interested in flexing her muscles than having any real plan. And of course there's all those bad decisions (giving birth to Joffrey, to begin with). I don't really know enough about Margaery to draw any conclusions, beyond her statement of intent ("I want to be the queen"). If she gets some real power, I think Melisandre might be someone to watch in the future as well... although so far she's only won her games because no one else knows the rules and she cheats like mad. | ||
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