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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 18 2019 11:02 Nakajin wrote:
I'm personally happy John reaction was "My father lied to me all my life and I am now the hair to the throne" and not "I bang my aunt"
That did seem like a far more natural response from Jon. I’m sure he will get to the aunt banging part, but that will be later. Likely after they lose at winterfell, because they have to lose to keep the stakes high.
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On April 18 2019 06:50 zatic wrote:
So looks like they will be simply ignoring that Jon was sleeping with his aunt huh? I watched the beyond the episode commentary and ever there they painfully walked around the implication, saying something like "so given that Jon's parents are now who Jon's parents are" or something like that.
Can't have the hero of a mainstream show sleep with family I suppose.
You are from Germany, why bother? Its not even illegal here. Can even marry your aunt.
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On April 18 2019 23:01 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 06:50 zatic wrote:
So looks like they will be simply ignoring that Jon was sleeping with his aunt huh? I watched the beyond the episode commentary and ever there they painfully walked around the implication, saying something like "so given that Jon's parents are now who Jon's parents are" or something like that.
Can't have the hero of a mainstream show sleep with family I suppose. You are from Germany, why bother? Its not even illegal here. Can even marry your aunt.
Well, I guess that in the world of Westeros marrying within the family was not uncommon among the nobles (and reading more on the subject reveals that it was actually a very common practice among the Targaryens). Also, it wouldn't be even half as bad as Cersei/Jaime relationship...
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My bigger trouble is that his aunt is the same age as him, while both their parents died not that far apart from each other? At least if my show timeline is just halfway correct.
I probably miss something but this seems weird for a whole lot of reasons.
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On April 18 2019 23:17 Velr wrote:
My bigger trouble is that his aunt is the same age as him, while both their parents died not that far apart from each other? At least if my show timeline is just halfway correct.
I probably miss something but this seems weird for a whole lot of reasons.
it means that jon's grandma birthed her daughter at the same time he was born. childbirth in 50's? i dunno. maybe she had rhaegar at a really young age of 18, and rhaegar himself could have a child in his early 20's, bringing her to around 40 as she has daenerys.
i know people in modern day who have kids at 20. i can't imagine it being rare in medieval times.
if you look at the actual ages on the wiki, rhaegar dies at age 23 or 24. Rhaella, his mother dies age 39. having both died shortly within the birth of their children (daenerys for the latter), it means she had him at age 15.
daenerys herself was about to have a kid at around age 14 or so because she marries khal drogo at 13. they simply improved her age with the show for obvious reasons. if it seems weird for you and others, that is definitely why they decided to alter the timeline a little to mask that little fact.
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On April 18 2019 23:37 nanaoei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 23:17 Velr wrote:
My bigger trouble is that his aunt is the same age as him, while both their parents died not that far apart from each other? At least if my show timeline is just halfway correct.
I probably miss something but this seems weird for a whole lot of reasons. it means that jon's grandma birthed her daughter at the same time he was born. childbirth in 50's? i dunno. maybe she had rhaegar at a really young age of 18, and rhaegar himself could have a child in his early 20's, bringing her to around 40 as she has daenerys. i know people in modern day who have kids at 20. i can't imagine it being rare in medieval times. if you look at the actual ages on the wiki, rhaegar dies at age 23 or 24. Rhaella, his mother dies age 39. having both died shortly within the birth of their children (daenerys for the latter), it means she had him at age 15. daenerys herself was about to have a kid at around age 14 or so because she marries khal drogo at 13. they simply improved her age with the show for obvious reasons. if it seems weird for you and others, that is definitely why they decided to alter the timeline a little to mask that little fact.
i dont know if it is a given that raehgars mother also was dani´s. could have been two different women.
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On April 18 2019 23:17 Velr wrote:
My bigger trouble is that his aunt is the same age as him, while both their parents died not that far apart from each other? At least if my show timeline is just halfway correct.
I probably miss something but this seems weird for a whole lot of reasons.
Rhaegar was significantly older than Daenerys, Rhaegar was the oldest of 7 kids and he was killed in the battle of the Trident by Robert before Daenerys was born.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Finally watched the episode and can freely read this thread, phew.
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Zurich15366 Posts
On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is?
My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications.
Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me.
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On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me.
I really don't think this can be ignored, if i had to guess it will lead to a child, there will be conflict about Jon being the real heir, there is no way they can ignore it.
But i also thought so when Jon came back from the dead, they did a good job mostly ignoring that so who knows :D
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Yea there's no way it can be ignored. The Targaryens have been marrying brother to sister and cousin to cousin since forever. Dany's own parents were siblings. That is all foreshadowing what's happening now. I think it's not a coincidence that they have ended up in some accidental incest. Almost like it's a part of the prophecy, or maybe the gods playing a joke on them.
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Canada8991 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me. I really don't think this can be ignored, if i had to guess it will lead to a child, there will be conflict about Jon being the real heir, there is no way they can ignore it. But i also thought so when Jon came back from the dead, they did a good job mostly ignoring that so who knows :D
I feel like most people call bullshit on the whole "coming back from the dead". But y'a he himself took experiencing the after-life pretty well lol.
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small rant
+ Show Spoiler +I took a break from the last few seasons, and watched the last premiere. I don't know how different the books vs the movies are at this point, (only read the first one,) but the lack of escalation in the series seems to be its biggest weakness. I remember at the end of Season 2 the White Walkers were about to storm the wall it looked like, and then nothing happened really till what was it hardhome four seasons later?
I think GRRMs basic premise for the end game scenario was: Undead army will breach the wall, and the remaining nations of men will still be battling eachother when they should have been banding together as one.
That premise however got too muddled with "Who is the true heir to the throne!?" repeated over and over each season multiple times with major armies throwing their advantages. And even now in season 8 Jon vs Dany vs Cersei is being chalked up as super important.
The show would have been more meaningful if Jon Snow in season 4 would have gathered ambassadors from all the major nations and took them to the wall as it was being breached. The ambassadors hurry back to their native lands and the warning is heard. The remaining seasons would have some politics involved sure, but the undead threat can pull the narratives together. Because as it is, the legacy of Game of Thrones will likely be too literal, "Who will win the throne by the end?" Its not a full narrative story really, instead its like watching our favorite characters move forwards and backwards on a HASBRO "The Game of Life" board.
My predictions: Most likely Jon or Sansa will win in the end, and because the losses are so great and the nations are so scattered, they will declare a new government where you get to vote or some shit.
EDIT: The shows production is really impressive. HBO doesn't really have an equal on that front.
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On April 20 2019 03:01 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 22:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me. I really don't think this can be ignored, if i had to guess it will lead to a child, there will be conflict about Jon being the real heir, there is no way they can ignore it. But i also thought so when Jon came back from the dead, they did a good job mostly ignoring that so who knows :D I feel like most people call bullshit on the whole "coming back from the dead". But y'a he himself took experiencing the after-life pretty well lol.
It is just that it is a really big plotpoint, i would have expected it to be more of an issue, for him and others. When he met with arya this episode she only said something like "how did you survive a knife through your heart" and that's it. Like they mention it here and there, but there was no substantial development which is disappointing for such a big event.
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On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me.
i think they will ignore it because that's what normal people would do
you're not going to bother losing any sleep over something like that
in real life no ones going to bother saying anything about it
(unless you're retarded, and GoT characters are not east enders characters)
On April 20 2019 03:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 03:01 Nakajin wrote:On April 19 2019 22:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me. I really don't think this can be ignored, if i had to guess it will lead to a child, there will be conflict about Jon being the real heir, there is no way they can ignore it. But i also thought so when Jon came back from the dead, they did a good job mostly ignoring that so who knows :D I feel like most people call bullshit on the whole "coming back from the dead". But y'a he himself took experiencing the after-life pretty well lol. It is just that it is a really big plotpoint, i would have expected it to be more of an issue, for him and others. When he met with arya this episode she only said something like "how did you survive a knife through your heart" and that's it. Like they mention it here and there, but there was no substantial development which is disappointing for such a big event.
similar thing, what do you want him to say about it? no one knows what the fuck happened or why. there are zombies walking around too. there are dragons breathing fire. you have to use your imagination and fill in the scenes of random people in bars gossiping and speculating about these things. but characters like john and so on, what do you expect them to think about it all? in real life he wouldn't have any answers and would just get on with things whilst feeling a bit fucked up. i think they done a good job with portraying this
if you ask me the biggest problems with the show , off the top of my head, are they SHAT up the epic tyrion (et al) dialogue since season 5 or whatever, and they killed off margery way too soon (i dont understand why, it was like 'here today, gone tomorrow', i thought she had more to give)
by the way, the telltale game of thrones game is fucking amazing, i can't repeat this enough
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I hope LF makes a comeback. Almost forgot about him.
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On April 20 2019 07:16 Emnjay808 wrote:
I hope LF makes a comeback. Almost forgot about him.
Wait hes alive? I read the theory about him paying one of the faceless in preparation of being "betrayed" by sansa but the show doesn't really like to do the side bits from the book + Show Spoiler [book stuff] +(with lady stoneheart,young griff, the mance is alive) of which the mance one is probably the most similar)
I feel like hes actually dead in the show and as for the books the situation hasn't happened at all
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I’m an optimist and hope the show can pull it off.
That scene where LF pays that unknown girl is enough for me to believe he’s alive, at least. But again, idk if there’s enough time for LF to really make a comeback worth the show creators time.
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On April 20 2019 12:45 Emnjay808 wrote:
I’m an optimist and hope the show can pull it off.
That scene where LF pays that unknown girl is enough for me to believe he’s alive, at least. But again, idk if there’s enough time for LF to really make a comeback worth the show creators time.
wow i went to go watch that video again, gotta say it is pretty convicing but yeah not enough time
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On April 20 2019 04:17 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me. i think they will ignore it because that's what normal people would do you're not going to bother losing any sleep over something like that in real life no ones going to bother saying anything about it (unless you're retarded, and GoT characters are not east enders characters) Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 03:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 20 2019 03:01 Nakajin wrote:On April 19 2019 22:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 19 2019 16:49 zatic wrote:On April 18 2019 07:39 aseq wrote:
Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is? My point is that they, as in the show writers, will ignore it. Having the two attractive leads end up in bed was just too enticing. And it looks like they'll just skip over the implications. Well let's see. Maybe the show will yet surprise me. I really don't think this can be ignored, if i had to guess it will lead to a child, there will be conflict about Jon being the real heir, there is no way they can ignore it. But i also thought so when Jon came back from the dead, they did a good job mostly ignoring that so who knows :D I feel like most people call bullshit on the whole "coming back from the dead". But y'a he himself took experiencing the after-life pretty well lol. It is just that it is a really big plotpoint, i would have expected it to be more of an issue, for him and others. When he met with arya this episode she only said something like "how did you survive a knife through your heart" and that's it. Like they mention it here and there, but there was no substantial development which is disappointing for such a big event. similar thing, what do you want him to say about it? no one knows what the fuck happened or why. there are zombies walking around too. there are dragons breathing fire. you have to use your imagination and fill in the scenes of random people in bars gossiping and speculating about these things. but characters like john and so on, what do you expect them to think about it all? in real life he wouldn't have any answers and would just get on with things whilst feeling a bit fucked up. i think they done a good job with portraying this if you ask me the biggest problems with the show , off the top of my head, are they SHAT up the epic tyrion (et al) dialogue since season 5 or whatever, and they killed off margery way too soon (i dont understand why, it was like 'here today, gone tomorrow', i thought she had more to give) by the way, the telltale game of thrones game is fucking amazing, i can't repeat this enough
I want these big plot points to have ramifications for future plot and character development. He came back from the dead, there would be religious following (especially rhllor followers, people who don't believe it and go against it, people close to him would make it big talking points, etc)
I don't think they did a good job with this at all, they mostly neglected and ignored it, all arya says is a oneliner when they meet again. I understand that there isn't unlimited time for everything, but this was a huge event, seems ridiculous to me that there is almost no impact felt.
I hope they will do better with Jon's parentage reveal this season, they have to.
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EPT
