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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 16 2019 11:44 Emnjay808 wrote:
Danys acting has not improved one bit. Which is astounding, considering that theres no where else to go than up.
Yeah her romance with Jon is just as bad as Anakin/Padme. Zero chemistry.
Also I like how she just brushes off the fact that one of her Dragons just died. Doesn't even mention it at all. I thought they were supposed to be her children.
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On April 16 2019 22:21 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:44 Emnjay808 wrote:
Danys acting has not improved one bit. Which is astounding, considering that theres no where else to go than up. Yeah her romance with Jon is just as bad as Anakin/Padme. Zero chemistry. Also I like how she just brushes off the fact that one of her Dragons just died. Doesn't even mention it at all. I thought they were supposed to be her children.
I had the exact same impression; watching Jon and Dany interact kept reminding me of “I don’t like sand...” lol
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We have seen better out of both of them when it comes to love interests, so I have to assume it is the direction and lack of screen time. I do sort of miss the days when we had fewer characters to care about they could spend a good chunk of a season Jon being told he knew nothing.
I listened to an interesting story yesterday by Peter Sagal(Host of Wait Wait, Don’t Tell Me), who met the show runners. Like all good super fan, he asked how GRRM’s version would end differently. They told him they were not allowed to say. But they did tell him about Hodor and how GRRM gave them the basic framework of what happened to Hodor(Bran traveling to the past while controlling Hodor), but not how to get there. They had to make up the chain of events that lead to the revelation and why “Hodor” was the word. So the show runners know what happens to the characters in GRRM’s version, but don’t have the road to get there.
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On April 16 2019 19:48 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
It's strange that even though the Night King has finally breached The Wall, that there just feel like lower stakes than in the past.
Very much this. They need to be killing off characters at this point to up the stakes, but they arent. Its pretty telling how even the red headed wildling guy and the nights watch members make it out totally unscathed from a dragon literally blowing up the wall. Probably because they need to keep some minor characters around for heroic deaths this season. But GoT was never about heroic deaths. Ned Stark just got executed because of a lie. The stark sons got slaughtered at a wedding because of a betrayal. But now even some minor side characters all make it out alive from under the noses of the greatest danger in the GoT universe. If they dont have the balls this season to kill off half the major characters at least, the night king is just going to feel like a wimp.
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On April 16 2019 23:24 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 19:48 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
It's strange that even though the Night King has finally breached The Wall, that there just feel like lower stakes than in the past. Very much this. They need to be killing off characters at this point to up the stakes, but they arent. Its pretty telling how even the red headed wildling guy and the nights watch members make it out totally unscathed from a dragon literally blowing up the wall. Probably because they need to keep some minor characters around for heroic deaths this season. But GoT was never about heroic deaths. Ned Stark just got executed because of a lie. The stark sons got slaughtered at a wedding because of a betrayal. But now even some minor side characters all make it out alive from under the noses of the greatest danger in the GoT universe. If they dont have the balls this season to kill off half the major characters at least, the night king is just going to feel like a wimp.
That is part of it, but it is just how mediocre the writing is, you cannot paint a doomsday scenario and then have characters doing oneliners every other scene, joke about having balls, have a scene where two main characters have a romantic afternoon, etc.
The tone is all over the place, it just doesn't work for the context we are in right now. If there is a moment where the show would need to be depressing all the time, this is it now (well there can still be hope ofc)
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On April 16 2019 22:55 Plansix wrote:
We have seen better out of both of them when it comes to love interests, so I have to assume it is the direction and lack of screen time. I do sort of miss the days when we had fewer characters to care about they could spend a good chunk of a season Jon being told he knew nothing.
I listened to an interesting story yesterday by Peter Sagal(Host of Wait Wait, Don’t Tell Me), who met the show runners. Like all good super fan, he asked how GRRM’s version would end differently. They told him they were not allowed to say. But they did tell him about Hodor and how GRRM gave them the basic framework of what happened to Hodor(Bran traveling to the past while controlling Hodor), but not how to get there. They had to make up the chain of events that lead to the revelation and why “Hodor” was the word. So the show runners know what happens to the characters in GRRM’s version, but don’t have the road to get there.
I dont think grrm knows either he has the ideas for what he wants the end game to look like and the meaningful revelations but i think hes struggling on the inbetween which is why the books are taking forever hopefully the show gives him some motivation and clues on what to do and what not to do
I quite liked the shows hodor scene, its a purely visual based one where its constantly cutting between whats happening now and in the past without showing too much until you put it together. I really wanna read how its written in the books it has to be a totally different approach
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On April 16 2019 23:39 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 22:55 Plansix wrote:
We have seen better out of both of them when it comes to love interests, so I have to assume it is the direction and lack of screen time. I do sort of miss the days when we had fewer characters to care about they could spend a good chunk of a season Jon being told he knew nothing.
I listened to an interesting story yesterday by Peter Sagal(Host of Wait Wait, Don’t Tell Me), who met the show runners. Like all good super fan, he asked how GRRM’s version would end differently. They told him they were not allowed to say. But they did tell him about Hodor and how GRRM gave them the basic framework of what happened to Hodor(Bran traveling to the past while controlling Hodor), but not how to get there. They had to make up the chain of events that lead to the revelation and why “Hodor” was the word. So the show runners know what happens to the characters in GRRM’s version, but don’t have the road to get there. I dont think grrm knows either he has the ideas for what he wants the end game to look like and the meaningful revelations but i think hes struggling on the inbetween which is why the books are taking forever hopefully the show gives him some motivation and clues on what to do and what not to do I quite liked the shows hodor scene, its a purely visual based one where its constantly cutting between whats happening now and in the past without showing too much until you put it together. I really wanna read how its written in the books it has to be a totally different approach
I have a pretty negative view of GRRM when it comes to this series. I loved the first three books, but felt pretty cheated on the fourth. After hearing about the 5th book’s ending, I pretty much decided I didn’t want to be in this abusive relationship any more. His need to keep adding characters and plotlines to his books seems like a way to delay the evolution of the plot and give the audience resolution. I can’t tell why, I suspect that people figured out where the story was going and he really enjoyed being unpredictable. Also after the third book, he really wrote himself into a corner where most of the movers of the plot died.
A buddy of mine joked that GRRM as the guy who read the section of Fellowship of the Ring where they discuss transporting boats for a couple pages and thought “I should write entire books about people and armies moving.”
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The lacking respect towards his writing kind of bothers me. D:
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On April 17 2019 01:07 TaKeTV wrote:
The lacking respect towards his writing kind of bothers me. D:
Well there are people who feel that way towards the last 2 books, i personally don't agree with them but GRRM isn't perfect either, some criticism i at least can see where it is coming from.
Another thing which imo really hurts the show atm is that kit harington and emilia clarke are both not the best actors and to make matters worse, they don't have any chemistry together either.
The whole romance there falls totally flat in my eyes, which is a problem because they already setup the imminent drama around these two.
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On April 17 2019 01:07 TaKeTV wrote:
The lacking respect towards his writing kind of bothers me. D:
I read the first GoT book in...2002 I think. I absolutely loved it and devoured the other 2 books in few days. I then re-read them 3-4 times.
Book 4 is where something became strange, in both GRRM writting and the quality of books. Book 5 is where I had to google what the hell happened and discovered all about his planned time skip between books which he abandoned and then failed to find another working solution.
That's the reason why from such a tightly written story in books 1-3 we get to Mereen knot and his inability to move the story in meaninfgul way.
His latest 2 books are ok, but objectively much worse than first 3. That's a fact and it's not disrespecful to say that. It's the reality...and it's hard for me to say that as I considered this my favorite book series for a long time.
Now we need to come to terms that GRRM will never finish this series and this makes me not respect him. Not the low quality of his latest writing, but the fact he is not able or willing to finish this series.
About the latest episode: Kit H. and Emilia C. acting is quite bad. I know they are capable of much better performances but here they just seem lost.
Writters against lose precious times in gratuitous nudity and focus too much time of dragons. In fact, they waste what could have been amazing scene of Jon riding the dragon for the first time straight into battle, but have him ride it to a picnic in the north.
There is no urgency in white walkers tearing up the wall nor does the episode establish their general position in the North and their movement. How did Umber get from Winterfell to his castle just to get slaughtered by WW? Couldn't they have retreated if WW came from north? But Tormund and the others came from north so where the hell is 100k undead...how are they able to move through the land seemingly unseen?
All said, Bran has really grown on me and I find him most interesting character in the story at this point.
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That's pure speculation on your part though. Also I would be careful with marking an opinion as fact. I hated Annihilation and thought it was pretty bad and for others it was a masterpiece.
If he doesn't finish the series that would be a shame but as someone mentioned he might also have written enough but not up to his standards. Saying people figured out the ending so he doesn't care seems off. Of course it might still be true. But for now he isn't dead so he can still finish.
Last but not least an opinion is rarely objective. If you want to write an objective take on the books, you also need to use and implement professional terms, rating, scale etc.
Please don't get me wrong, you are free to not like them or even say the writing got worse but that's only a small part of a book and story. If 2 episodes out of 12 in a series are subpar, it doesn't make the series bad.
Also as you mentioned you considered it your favorite series to that point so naturally it's really hard to match expectations. Of course GRRM isn't perfect, but sometimes it reads as his first books were masterclass and now are abysmal.
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A quick note on the position of the white walkers: the intro actually shows the ground and castles they've taken. Which is maybe not the best way of communicating that, but its something at least.
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So apparently Mac from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia was one of the sailors killed at the end of the episode.
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28103 Posts
On April 17 2019 09:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So apparently Mac from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia was one of the sailors killed at the end of the episode.
They had a few cameos I believe (mostly smaller actors/comedians). When Theon saved his sister, the guard that got the axe through his head was one of the shows main writers 
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On April 16 2019 22:55 Plansix wrote:
We have seen better out of both of them when it comes to love interests, so I have to assume it is the direction and lack of screen time. I do sort of miss the days when we had fewer characters to care about they could spend a good chunk of a season Jon being told he knew nothing.
I listened to an interesting story yesterday by Peter Sagal(Host of Wait Wait, Don’t Tell Me), who met the show runners. Like all good super fan, he asked how GRRM’s version would end differently. They told him they were not allowed to say. But they did tell him about Hodor and how GRRM gave them the basic framework of what happened to Hodor(Bran traveling to the past while controlling Hodor), but not how to get there. They had to make up the chain of events that lead to the revelation and why “Hodor” was the word. So the show runners know what happens to the characters in GRRM’s version, but don’t have the road to get there.
well neither does Martin know the road to get there
I criticise the tv show a lot too but at least they had the guts to get to an end. Martin wrote himself to an dead end and only the most hardcore fans think otherwise (the ones who would praise anything he writes no matter what).
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Zurich15366 Posts
So looks like they will be simply ignoring that Jon was sleeping with his aunt huh? I watched the beyond the episode commentary and ever there they painfully walked around the implication, saying something like "so given that Jon's parents are now who Jon's parents are" or something like that.
Can't have the hero of a mainstream show sleep with family I suppose.
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Well, Targaryens have been doing the same thing for centuries, so in that light, it's not that special. But if I were Jon, I wouldn't tell her yet, have you seen how hot she is?
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On April 17 2019 09:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So apparently Mac from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia was one of the sailors killed at the end of the episode.
His karate failed him :/
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Canada8991 Posts
I'm personally happy John reaction was "My father lied to me all my life and I am now the hair to the throne" and not "I bang my aunt"
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EPT
