I thought it was the best episode yet. Sure there were a few changes I didn't agree with, but I can accept that will be the case with a TV show that doesn't have the internal monologue the books give. There aren't too many ways to get that information across on film. Perhaps with an unlimited budget they could do flashbacks of some of the exposition of the past, but that requires more actors, more sets and costumes and adds different time lines to a story that already has more split story lines than most shows.
Sansa has a big crush on Loras, and it isn't til much later in the series that there are enough clues to decide that Loras or Renly are gay to make this crush be unreasonable. I wish they would have at least waited til next season if they felt they needed to be so blatant about it.
I'd have liked to see the ascent of the Eyrie, but I understand that it probably wasn't in the budget to do so convincingly, even with an HBO budget. Non-readers don't even know they are missing anything. The Theon scene reinforced who he is and his background for later in the series.
The sex hasn't seemed too gratuitous to me. I wouldn't really want to watch with my parents, but it isn't any more than any other HBO series, and some of their viewers are watching JUST for the sex. It could be more descrete, but I don't think they are just adding as many sex scenes as possible and in fact a few sex scenes from the books have been cut.
As for watching outside the US, it depends on where you are. I have read that it is currently broadcasting in the UK, Spain, and Brazil and perhaps a few other places.
According to Westeros.org:
South African satellite channel M-Net has secured rights to the series, no air date listed.
Canada: HBO Canada will air it at the same days and times as in the U.S. Canada, the show will be seen on HBO Canada, same days and times as in the US.
Argentina, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, and Chile: It will air on HBO Latin America, though days and times may vary.
France: It will air on Orange.
Israel: It will air on DBS.
Australia is tenatively scheduled to start airing in July on Showcase.
Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, and the Czech Republic: It will air on HBO Central Europe
Asia: It will be offered by HBO Asia to countries within their territory, but not all will necessarily carry it (in some cases due to content restrictions in those countries).
I don't really mind the sex scenes. But first making Lord Renly such a faggot and 2nd Loras was never in charge of that relation ship. It was Lord Renly showing him "secret places" or so as only hints on their relation ship. it was before [[care later book]]+ Show Spoiler +
(I think the imp) talks about Loras behavior after Renlies dead.. that it was way over the top... like way. That there might was more than just a knight / King relationship. I don't really like this change now.
I quite likethe show, but there's one thing that's starting to become a pet peeve for me.
Why the hell are the whores in this show all so knowledgable and why do they use them to explain so much? Are they that desperate to put some boobs and a bit of fucking in the show that they would have some illogical scene where some prostitute is explaining Theon's "hostage situation" or in the previous ep where the prostitute explains most of the viserys backstory.
They're whores for fuck sake. Why would they know anything. It just seems like bad writing to me.
On May 16 2011 23:59 Flicky wrote: I quite likethe show, but there's one thing that's starting to become a pet peeve for me.
Why the hell are the whores in this show all so knowledgable and why do they use them to explain so much? Are they that desperate to put some boobs and a bit of fucking in the show that they would have some illogical scene where some prostitute is explaining Theon's "hostage situation" or in the previous ep where the prostitute explains most of the viserys backstory.
They're whores for fuck sake. Why would they know anything. It just seems like bad writing to me.
Bad writing? Whore's not knowing much just because they're whores? Well just look at Petyr who runs a whorehouse and the discussio nbetween Varys and Littlefinger...obviously lots of people in the show think just like you do, and both Petyr and Varys are very well versed in what is happening around Westeros. Hmm I wonder how they get to know what's going on..can't be the whores that don't know anything and are just typecast as being "dumb".
But seirously though, the North in particular doesn't have much going on, especially in Winterfell, so a whore like Ros would really get to know her patrons well. Patrons talk and it isn't that much of a secret that Theon is a ward. It was apretty big deal when Ned called on his army to go and fight the Iron Islands.
On May 16 2011 22:09 PlaGuE_R wrote: OMG SEX! OMG!! OMG! RUN FOR THE HILLS! SHIELD YOUR EYES! AAH! SEX!!!! oh wait look, he cleaved a horse in half, AWESOME LOL oh wait AAAAH GAY SEX! AAAAH OMG! OMG!!! AAAAH GAY SEX!!!! oh look Jory with a knife thru his face, that's fucking awesome.
I seriously hope you guys dont adopt the attitude you show on here in the bedroom with your wives/gf or thats bound to be a frigid relationship. Just so you understand why sex is important in any TV show, you need to remember what the top 3 motives for murder are first is sex second is money and third is power.
so much intrigue and crap happens because of sex, The Hand's death, + Show Spoiler +
Vyserys' death was because he sold his sister to be a sex slave but she rose up as more then that.
Theon's betrayal of the Starks can be foreshadowed by how he gets taunted by even a lowly whore about being a "ward"
but all you guys see is titties and you have an aneurysm, however showing gore and blood's all gooooooood
Jeez man, I don't think that's it at all. It's wasting time with showing theon thrusting a chick or absurd blowjob noises. Showing the horse get cleaved in half was there for a reason, the same with jory dying. One showed the mountains strength and callousness, while the other displayed Jaime's willingness to stab a man he just had a friendly conversation with in the face. He didn't think twice about it.
If you can tell me what those sucking noises or a fucking scene added, I'm all ears. The conversation with Theon perhaps had some foreshadowing in it, but that doesn't mean 10 minutes weren't wasted with the other crap.
Both sex scene had some foreshadowing in it. And if you got problems with whores talking about stuff now wait until + Show Spoiler [Book2] +
Tyrion finds Shae :D
And I agree that there is way too much spoilering in this thread. I want to come here after each episode and read the sincere feelings of people that didn't read the books and if you all keep spoilering stuff for them that will not be possible because they will know it or have left the thread. I know I would have by now if I didn't read all the books twice.
On May 16 2011 22:09 PlaGuE_R wrote: OMG SEX! OMG!! OMG! RUN FOR THE HILLS! SHIELD YOUR EYES! AAH! SEX!!!! oh wait look, he cleaved a horse in half, AWESOME LOL oh wait AAAAH GAY SEX! AAAAH OMG! OMG!!! AAAAH GAY SEX!!!! oh look Jory with a knife thru his face, that's fucking awesome.
I seriously hope you guys dont adopt the attitude you show on here in the bedroom with your wives/gf or thats bound to be a frigid relationship. Just so you understand why sex is important in any TV show, you need to remember what the top 3 motives for murder are first is sex second is money and third is power.
so much intrigue and crap happens because of sex, The Hand's death, + Show Spoiler +
Vyserys' death was because he sold his sister to be a sex slave but she rose up as more then that.
Theon's betrayal of the Starks can be foreshadowed by how he gets taunted by even a lowly whore about being a "ward"
but all you guys see is titties and you have an aneurysm, however showing gore and blood's all gooooooood
Jeez man, I don't think that's it at all. It's wasting time with showing theon thrusting a chick or absurd blowjob noises. Showing the horse get cleaved in half was there for a reason, the same with jory dying. One showed the mountains strength and callousness, while the other displayed Jaime's willingness to stab a man he just had a friendly conversation with in the face. He didn't think twice about it.
If you can tell me what those sucking noises or a fucking scene added, I'm all ears. The conversation with Theon perhaps had some foreshadowing in it, but that doesn't mean 10 minutes weren't wasted with the other crap.
Royalty fucks around. The dude is gay and apparently has ambitions of becoming king. There wasn't 10 minutes of sucking noises now was there?
good episode, I'm just dissapointed that they botched/cut short the stuff at the Eyrie in favor of including stuff that was never even in the book. There was so much potential for atmospheric, cool and creepy stuff with the Eyrie that I would have loved to have seen, but we didn't even get a hint at how difficult it is to ascend the damn thing, let alone get a propper reveal about just how nuts Lysa is. She was just there, suddenly, being all theatrical and shit. Robert Arryn didn't seem the least bit sickly and frail either - just creepy - but whatever...
Also, whenever there's any kind of action, the series gets a bit too close to Xena territory for my liking. The swordfight at the end really didn't do anything for me, but I LOVE the "quiet" parts of the show, and I'm perfectly fine with a ponderous drama with flashes of violence. + Show Spoiler [book 2] +
Makes me worried for season 2 though. If they pull off the battle of the blackwater, I'll be amazed. But it'll likely just be hinted at with quick editing and total shots of cg ships burning, with a ton of stuff from the book cut.
On May 17 2011 00:22 OrchidThief wrote: Just so you understand why sex is important in any TV show, you need to remember what the top 3 motives for murder are first is sex second is money and third is power.
Yes I agree why money is neglected, the big part of the show should show people counting they money. You don't need sex scenes to indicate who fucks who it is just a waste of episode time.
Only the sex scenes between Daenerys Targaryen, and Drogo had sense because they had shown how she changes.
On May 17 2011 00:22 OrchidThief wrote:Royalty fucks around. The dude is gay and apparently has ambitions of becoming king. There wasn't 10 minutes of sucking noises now was there?
It was longer it could had been, also the scene with Viserys Targaryen, and a whore in episode 2 was pretty much pointless.
On May 16 2011 22:09 PlaGuE_R wrote: OMG SEX! OMG!! OMG! RUN FOR THE HILLS! SHIELD YOUR EYES! AAH! SEX!!!! oh wait look, he cleaved a horse in half, AWESOME LOL oh wait AAAAH GAY SEX! AAAAH OMG! OMG!!! AAAAH GAY SEX!!!! oh look Jory with a knife thru his face, that's fucking awesome.
I seriously hope you guys dont adopt the attitude you show on here in the bedroom with your wives/gf or thats bound to be a frigid relationship. Just so you understand why sex is important in any TV show, you need to remember what the top 3 motives for murder are first is sex second is money and third is power.
so much intrigue and crap happens because of sex, The Hand's death, + Show Spoiler +
Vyserys' death was because he sold his sister to be a sex slave but she rose up as more then that.
Theon's betrayal of the Starks can be foreshadowed by how he gets taunted by even a lowly whore about being a "ward"
but all you guys see is titties and you have an aneurysm, however showing gore and blood's all gooooooood
I really don't think the objection is to the simple fact that it's being shown. It's more in the fact that a lot of it is simply gratuitous. You don't need full frontal nudity in order to inform the audience that the characters in question are having or recently had sex. Two people in a bed, clearly wearing nothing under the blankets conveys the same message and has the added benefit of not alienating those who are squeemish about such things. I'm not the least bit offended by the nudity or the violence but I feel the message it sends is that the producers of the show aren't confident enough in their work to let it stand on its own merit so they throw in a bunch of gratuitous sex and violence. I'm not male but if I was I'd also be a little irked at the idea that the producers think I need said gratuitous sex and violence to make me want to watch their TV show.
In the end it's a pretty minor complaint because I think the series is excellent overall. It's the first show in years I've cared to watch more than one episode of. I just think some of the sex is a bit gratuitous and extraneous and therefore unnecessary.
The thing is, there's a TON of gratuitous sex scenes in the book. The writer also could have chosen diferent ways to express those scenes, or even not show them at all, since some of them were really explicit and not exactly important to the plot, but he kept it, that's the way he chose to tell the story. You can actually say they were faithfull to the books by showing all the nudity.
It may be a problem that they have to cut some things to put these scenes in the TV show, but it is kinda weird being put off by the it's gratuity in the show but not in the books. Yes, they probally kept them also because it attract viewers, that's the point of the show, but if there is one series I think it's fair to do it it's this one.
On May 17 2011 00:33 Quotidian wrote: good episode, I'm just dissapointed that they botched/cut short the stuff at the Eyrie in favor of including stuff that was never even in the book. There was so much potential for atmospheric, cool and creepy stuff with the Eyrie that I would have loved to have seen, but we didn't even get a hint at how difficult it is to ascend the damn thing, let alone get a propper reveal about just how nuts Lysa is. She was just there, suddenly, being all theatrical and shit. Robert Arryn didn't seem the least bit sickly and frail either - just creepy - but whatever...
Also, whenever there's any kind of action, the series gets a bit too close to Xena territory for my liking. The swordfight at the end really didn't do anything for me, but I LOVE the "quiet" parts of the show, and I'm perfectly fine with a ponderous drama with flashes of violence. + Show Spoiler [book 2] +
Makes me worried for season 2 though. If they pull off the battle of the blackwater, I'll be amazed. But it'll likely just be hinted at with quick editing and total shots of cg ships burning, with a ton of stuff from the book cut.
On May 17 2011 00:33 Quotidian wrote: good episode, I'm just dissapointed that they botched/cut short the stuff at the Eyrie in favor of including stuff that was never even in the book. There was so much potential for atmospheric, cool and creepy stuff with the Eyrie that I would have loved to have seen, but we didn't even get a hint at how difficult it is to ascend the damn thing, let alone get a propper reveal about just how nuts Lysa is. She was just there, suddenly, being all theatrical and shit. Robert Arryn didn't seem the least bit sickly and frail either - just creepy - but whatever...
Also, whenever there's any kind of action, the series gets a bit too close to Xena territory for my liking. The swordfight at the end really didn't do anything for me, but I LOVE the "quiet" parts of the show, and I'm perfectly fine with a ponderous drama with flashes of violence. + Show Spoiler [book 2] +
Makes me worried for season 2 though. If they pull off the battle of the blackwater, I'll be amazed. But it'll likely just be hinted at with quick editing and total shots of cg ships burning, with a ton of stuff from the book cut.
it has less to do with him writing it and more to do with budget and time. They didn't have the budget to fully realize the Eyrie, for instance. It's just a small set and a cg model in the distance
The scene with Renly and Loras is actually an improvement over the books. People tend to glorify the books to the absurd and forget that for all their great things there are some problems that could be ironed out.
People raged at drogo, claiming their sex scene in the book was completety different. It was, it was incoherent in the books and one solid character arc in the TV-series. It was a change but the essence remains the same whilst the execution is better.
The same goes for Renly. His motivation for striving to be king in the war of the five kings is completly idiotic, mostly because of the fact that he doesn't have any. This new angle where Loras is urging him on to become king is just like the drogo change, an improvement on the books. People need to stop treating the books as if they are the end all be all and objectively look at it.
On May 17 2011 00:33 Quotidian wrote: good episode, I'm just dissapointed that they botched/cut short the stuff at the Eyrie in favor of including stuff that was never even in the book. There was so much potential for atmospheric, cool and creepy stuff with the Eyrie that I would have loved to have seen, but we didn't even get a hint at how difficult it is to ascend the damn thing, let alone get a propper reveal about just how nuts Lysa is. She was just there, suddenly, being all theatrical and shit. Robert Arryn didn't seem the least bit sickly and frail either - just creepy - but whatever...
Also, whenever there's any kind of action, the series gets a bit too close to Xena territory for my liking. The swordfight at the end really didn't do anything for me, but I LOVE the "quiet" parts of the show, and I'm perfectly fine with a ponderous drama with flashes of violence. + Show Spoiler [book 2] +
Makes me worried for season 2 though. If they pull off the battle of the blackwater, I'll be amazed. But it'll likely just be hinted at with quick editing and total shots of cg ships burning, with a ton of stuff from the book cut.
it has less to do with him writing it and more to do with budget and time. They didn't have the budget to fully realize the Eyrie, for instance. It's just a small set and a cg model in the distance
That's not necessarily it. The ascent to the Eyrie did not serve that much of a purpose for the story. How hard would it have been to render the Eyrie from a few more angles if that was indeed necessary? We saw it from more perspectives than just the distance perspective already. + Show Spoiler [book2] +
The Blackwater scenes will need a lot of people fighting, of course, which is more tricky, but if there is one scene they should put some budget into, it is that one.
One reason I think they reduced the screentime of the Eyrie is that it is only important for two episodes of this season, and then goes out of the story for a long while. Theon and Renly on the other hand are very important in the next season.
Loved the episode. Still, they should have had more of the Vale in it.
I cant believe how badass both Sandor and Gregor Clegane are. I hated Gregor in the books with a burning passion, but in the tv series I just want to see him fuck shit up.
EPT
