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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Canada11582 Posts
On June 15 2014 20:39 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2014 19:32 Mikau wrote:On June 15 2014 13:58 Roswell wrote:On June 15 2014 13:23 lilopuppy wrote:
Sorry man, but I agree with the "trolls". I mainly watch the show for the acting, nothing else. The f*ck is wrong with you? Has there ever been a better lookin fantasy series or movies than GoT? The cinematography alone could keep me watching, and you add in acting AND the possibilty of dragons vs zombies? Really only acting? If tha were the case just watch The Wire where there is no cinematography, no directing, no art stuff, just writing and im kidding the wire is pretty good. But its no xena warrior princess, which is no buffy the vampire slayer which is no x files which is no dr who which is no seinfeld. God im exstatical for this finale. Omg i want to like start up a new futures perfect campaign Cause they gonna use anoher magic trick and reverse time to save oberyne and ygritte right I'll agree with you on series, but the LotR films have amazing cinematography and is arguably better looking (but the budget onthat was immense). I say arguably because you might prefer the gritty GoT style over the more clean LotR. LotR looked amazing and even had geography porn at times. But it was like a video game world. Every country has one king, the kings family, maybe a leader of the army. But no court. And no court politics. Littlefinger, Varys and Pycelle however make the proceedings in King's Landing real to me. Also Edoras, the capital of Rohan, looked tiny. Minas Tirith was a real city, Edoras was like a fortified village.
As Lord Tolkien pointed out, a great many characters got cut from books to film. But there is also a matter of focus. GoT, court politics IS the central vehicle for conflict. Whereas the Ring of Power, Sauron and his ilk is the central vehicle of conflict. Particularly the possible corruption of any good person, even a hobbit is the central conflict. We never stay in one place for long in any book, not long enough to learn the entire structure of the civil government. But by the time we hit the third book, Gondor is close to drowning, they hardly have the luxury to politic... though Lord Denethor knew Aragorn was coming and likely would not have stepped down to the last of a ragged house long berefit of lordship and dignity.
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for me LOTR is kinda the same as GOT, but for kids.
There are no themes like incest and quadruple crossing ppl at a wedding in LOTR.
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Canada11582 Posts
There are no themes like incest
Then you have not read of Túrin Turambar. Although I'm not sure why the lack thereof suddenly makes it for children exculsively.
Edit.
Also. Feasts and terrible deeds tend to go together with Tolkien.
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On June 16 2014 02:33 Nesserev wrote:I googled 'Türin Turambar', I didn't know that there was such a rich lore behind Lord of the Rings. Kinda makes me wish that they would serialize/moviefy those stories too. EDIT: it also just dawned upon me that it's the last episode of season 4 tonight... hype hype hype 
I really don't know how to respond to this I mean what
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Can someone pm me a streaming site for GoT tonight?
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On June 16 2014 01:46 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
for me LOTR is kinda the same as GOT, but for kids.
There are no themes like incest and quadruple crossing ppl at a wedding in LOTR.
Haha. You should probably refrain from speaking of things you clearly know nothing about.
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On June 16 2014 03:33 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 01:46 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
for me LOTR is kinda the same as GOT, but for kids.
There are no themes like incest and quadruple crossing ppl at a wedding in LOTR. Haha. You should probably refrain from speaking of things you clearly know nothing about.
It's not wrong though. Lotr is pretty straight forward, the good guys on their quest vs the bad, first the heroes get their group together, grow with their challenges, and so on and so forth. GoT is a lot more 'mature' in that regard. "A story for children" isn't so wrong, as long as you don't automatically think of children's story as an insult.(which you shouldn't)
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so whose ready for the finale? there is one part in particular i am looking towards, no spoilers 
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On June 16 2014 03:42 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 03:33 farvacola wrote:On June 16 2014 01:46 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
for me LOTR is kinda the same as GOT, but for kids.
There are no themes like incest and quadruple crossing ppl at a wedding in LOTR. Haha. You should probably refrain from speaking of things you clearly know nothing about. It's not wrong though. Lotr is pretty straight forward, the good guys on their quest vs the bad, first the heroes get their group together, grow with their challenges, and so on and so forth. GoT is a lot more 'mature' in that regard. "A story for children" isn't so wrong, as long as you don't automatically think of children's story as an insult.(which you shouldn't)
So long as one clarifies "LoTR" as specifically referencing the core three books, I take no issue with it. The moment that label expands to signify the LoTR universe, though, it most certainly no longer remains a children's story. Children who can handle the Silmarilion are weird as shit (I should know, I was one of them )
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On June 16 2014 02:15 Falling wrote:Then you have not read of Túrin Turambar. Although I'm not sure why the lack thereof suddenly makes it for children exculsively. Edit. Also. Feasts and terrible deeds tend to go together with Tolkien.
+ Show Spoiler [LotR talk, and some discussion of GRRM…] +Indeed, if you want kinslaying, incest, and violence/skulduggery, you need to read the Silmarilion, or a number of the Unfinished Tales. I still go through the Book of Lost Tales for "The Fall of Gondolin", which he wrote almost a century ago now (another 3 more years, wow). Both Lord of the Rings and ASOIAF address different points. I'd hardly call Tolkien's work for children, outside of The Hobbit and some of his non-legendarium works. His intent when writing the legendarium was much more towards a revival of the old Scandinavian epics, and shaped largely by his wartime experience in WWI (where nearly all his school friends bar one died, most on the Somme which the Fall of Gondolin was inspired by). The themes it broaches on are far more broader and abstract: loss and farewell, death and immortality, power and corruption, industrialization, and free will/fate (not to mention the conservative Catholic outlook). While he does lack the "sex, lies, and violence" that modern viewers do enjoy, it's no less of a deep work of adult fiction, and it's role as the foundation of high fantasy today means that every writer, including GRRM, in the fantasy genre writes towards (or against) the LotR. + Show Spoiler +It was dark and dim all day. From the sunless dawn until evening the heavy shadow had deepened, and all hearts in the City were oppressed. Far above a great cloud streamed slowly westward from the Black Land, devouring light, borne upon a wind of war; but below the air was still and breathless, as if all the Vale of Anduin waited for the onset of a ruinous storm. or But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lórien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent.
There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea. Nether are really "for kids" per se, and the themes they touch upon are certainly mature: the latter is found in the appendix however, which really makes up at least half of the third book I believe. GRRM, however, has chosen to focus on the War of the Roses period and late medieval society as the basis for his work, as opposed to a more "Arthurian" legend, which necessarily means a focus on court politics and the like. Writing from a more modern time also gives him more leeway to including, but his work is also a critique of the currently-popularized Campbellian or Romantic "hero's journey" that gained prominence in the 40s and 50s, which LotR took part in shaping today. Ned's death is a perfect example of this. Additionally, without the same kind of Victorian sensibilities of Tolkien and many decades in the future, he had more leeway to write on (and more knowledge of) modern issues of sex, violence, and war than did Tolkien. + Show Spoiler [small book generalization] +though the show/HBO does use a gratuitous amount of sex, especially compared to the books EDIT: On June 16 2014 03:42 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 03:33 farvacola wrote:On June 16 2014 01:46 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
for me LOTR is kinda the same as GOT, but for kids.
There are no themes like incest and quadruple crossing ppl at a wedding in LOTR. Haha. You should probably refrain from speaking of things you clearly know nothing about. It's not wrong though. Lotr is pretty straight forward, the good guys on their quest vs the bad, first the heroes get their group together, grow with their challenges, and so on and so forth. GoT is a lot more 'mature' in that regard. "A story for children" isn't so wrong, as long as you don't automatically think of children's story as an insult.(which you shouldn't) Depends. There are certainly moral issues raised throughout the book beyond the good vs. evil dichotomy. For instance, Frodo and Sam stumble onto an argument between two Orcs that starts to raise some of the ethical questions of orcs as fearful slaves as opposed for evil beings in and of themselves. That being said, it's more of a "children's story" in that it follows the old mythic formulae of romantic heroes, as opposed to the many arcs and shades of which GRRM is able to work with, for a number of reasons.
Back to TV GOT, I'm both hyped and sad. Because after the finale we now have a winter to last through. 
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On June 15 2014 23:03 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2014 22:40 Dunmer wrote:
Rohan dont want to fight in a fortified position if they can help it, their entire military is based around fast moving cavalry. Gondor follow a more traditional medieval men at arms and knights style of combat and as such cities suit them better to defend.
Don't forget its hard to go into intricate detail of politics in a 3 part movie series when you have everything else to get done. This is the advantage of the show style for something like GoT. LOTR Talk: + Show Spoiler +Also, Gondor is supposed to have had a great ancient golden day, but Rohan never really did. In the present day of LOTR, there has been a massive drop in human population from what it used to be; Aragorn laments that Gondor used to have a vanguard 10 times the size of the entire army we see in the battle at the Black Gate (but doesn't mention the armies of Balrogs used by the bad guys back then). I think we're supposed to think that Minas Tirith was built to house an enormous population, and is now used mostly as a shelter for people fleeing from Osgiliath etc. GOT Talk: HYYPE! Okay: so here's what happens: Bran gets to the tree, finds out that it lets him shoot fireballs out of his hands, because the Old Gods are tight with the Red God / Ahura Mazda, and as everything looks hopeless for Jon Snow, Danny shows up and says "I know you were all getting tired of the Essos plotline, so here I am!" They defeat the white walkers, Jon turns out to be the child of a secret marriage between Lyanna Stark and Rob Baratheon, and he marries Danny, and her crazy balances out with his boring and they become likable.
5,000 years later, the people of Westeros develop nuclear weapons and bomb one another out of existence, to the amusement of the fire god who always just wanted to watch the world burn.
Quick ! Somebody hire this guy . We can't let this guys imagination go to waste.
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On June 16 2014 03:33 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 01:46 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
for me LOTR is kinda the same as GOT, but for kids.
There are no themes like incest and quadruple crossing ppl at a wedding in LOTR. Haha. You should probably refrain from speaking of things you clearly know nothing about.
so you got a list of what Ive read and what I havent??
same applies to you my friend.
also note how I began my post. I expressed a personal opinion.
Im also pretty sure 99% of the world dont know who Melkor/Beren/Fingolfin /& friends are so when they mention LoTR they arent talking about the Silmarillion which is pretty fucked up and a lot less childish indeed.
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On June 16 2014 03:40 Nesserev wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 03:13 Dfgj wrote:
I really don't know how to respond to this I mean what I knew that Tolkien had written LOTR and the Hobbit, and that there was some background stuff... just didn't know that there was so much :S
The amusing thing is that Tolkien is known for creating this utterly complete world, with its own mythology and origin story and languages and history spanning thousands of years. I'm fairly certain that there is no fantasy world out there that is as detailed as the world of middle earth.
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On June 16 2014 04:05 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 03:40 Nesserev wrote:On June 16 2014 03:13 Dfgj wrote:
I really don't know how to respond to this I mean what I knew that Tolkien had written LOTR and the Hobbit, and that there was some background stuff... just didn't know that there was so much :S The amusing thing is that Tolkien is known for creating this utterly complete world, with its own mythology and origin story and languages and history spanning thousands of years. I'm fairly certain that there is no fantasy world out there that is as detailed as the world of middle earth.
+ Show Spoiler [more LOTR talk] +He's the one who started the trend in the first place
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Damn... I was looking for the TV GoT thread.. I seem to have stumbled into the LoTR books/movies VS. GoT thread? Can Tolkien please be dropped or taken elsewhere?
Totally buried my funny 'Before they were famous' video of the GoT cast haha. I bet tons of watchers didn't know they used to at least kind of like Joffrey 
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Canada11582 Posts
Sorry to me it wasn't LotR's vs GoT... I don't think I said anything against GoT. I just find it irritating that in complementing GoT, people find it necessary to disparage LotR, when their goals are so very different. Perhaps you could critique the execution of their goals or prefer one set of goals over the other. But I disagree that one is for children in the simplistic sense. (I also take issue that LotR's is a simple moral tale, but whatever.)
But I will leave the defence of Tolkien for another time and place.
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On June 16 2014 03:27 obesechicken13 wrote:
Can someone pm me a streaming site for GoT tonight?
Is it against the rules to post it in the thread?
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France7248 Posts
One of the things I love about HBO is that you can take as long as you need to tell your story, you're not locked into the rigid 46-minutes-and-change-to-the-second of the broadcast networks. This one will go 116 minutes, it says. Cool.
116 minutes? I thought it would be just a bit more than 1 hour
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EPT
