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On April 10 2017 23:45 Velr wrote: If the last episodes teached anything then its that sayans are stupid and don't understand ring out rules... Despite having fought and won in tournaments with ring out rules before.
Its just dumb.
Yeah all this "i learned a lot today" from goku makes me cringe. Oh well i hope the actual tournament is done well
On April 10 2017 23:45 Velr wrote: If the last episodes teached anything then its that sayans are stupid and don't understand ring out rules... Despite having fought and won in tournaments with ring out rules before.
Its just dumb.
Yeah all this "i learned a lot today" from goku makes me cringe. Oh well i hope the actual tournament is done well
agreed, im hoping the english dub turns down the dumb goku...hes never been this stupid just battle "greedy".
It's just so stupid. He is the one who has the most experience out of anyone. Now they portray it like any oh so small trick is something new for him. It's absurd
With that being said, buu is kinda exciting, i hope he actually is on a lvl close to vegeta/goku
On April 10 2017 23:45 Velr wrote: If the last episodes teached anything then its that sayans are stupid and don't understand ring out rules... Despite having fought and won in tournaments with ring out rules before.
Its just dumb.
Yeah, this was my thought as well. This idea that Gohan is inexperienced is brain dead. What makes Krillin so experienced? The fact that he appeared in Dragon Ball as a child and did various chores for Roshi? He was lazy throughout the entire show.
Meanwhile, Gohan outdid Krillin in every moment in the Frieza saga. He fucking took out Cell for fuck's sake. He trained with Goku in the time chamber prior to that. Then he did what he did against Super Buu and he's just some dipshit? Meanwhile Krillin is a shitty cop.
The only thing that makes Krillin somewhat justified as a better fighter is the fact that he was in dragon ball. That's not a good reason. He's just a character that has existed for longer. Plain and simply, there is no logical justification for Krillin to be some kinda wise man compared to Gohan. The only person who should have been a wiser fighter than Gohan is Roshi himself. Roshi's ability to keep up with the speed of various SSJ fights (from an observer perspective) is well supported (though sometimes inconsistent) in DBZ. He's always been able to track and predict the progress of various fights. Meanwhile, Krillin is usually shitting his pants.
With regards to the Goku vs Buu, that was somewhat justified. First of all, Goku never even went SSJ. Second, Buu's ability to constrict movement and heavily exploit his physiology is well supported. Buu was never dumb as a fighter. He was always a good strategist as a fighter and him coming up with tricks against Goku after watching Goku fight in the exhibition match, and fighting him extensively previously, makes sense. If he is suddenly filled with a surge of motivation to thrash furries, I am not having a hard time believing he came up with unique strategies at dealing with people with human-like physiology and limitations.
I agree with most of this, but Gohan not having experience in ring out events actually makes a lot of sense. All of his fights weren't involving a ring. In the one martial arts tournament he fought in, he never actually fought. A ring out event doesn't matter who's the strongest if they can catch you by surprise and knock you off the ring (like Krillin did to Gohan with that solar flare... TIMES 100!)
I agree that the newness of the characters of the other universes isn't that much of an issue, as this is Dragon Ball Super, and not some masterpiece in story-telling. But, I think it is a fair criticism, in principle. Introducing a villain just before you need the hero to battle the villain, is bad story-telling. You need to set up villains beforehand, then get the audience emotionally involved somehow.
The only villain people care about in DBZ was Vegeta. All other ones were blank slate bad guys that destroy everything.
I also agree that the writers are massaging the viewer for accepting that some people are going to be really bad about not going out of bounce, despite being very strong. So once Gohan gets easily eliminated, it will be more believable because a point has been made out of that beforehand. So that is their level of foresight.
It does seem likely that somehow Goku will initially be neutralized because of some conspiracy, Buu will be Buu, Gohan or Vegeta will be eliminated by a trick, and the others have to make a stand and do something important with team play, and they need to hold out until Goku can finally battle Jiren.
I don't think you can call Frieza or Cell blank slate bad guys. Those were some of the best villains in an anime, even if they were tropes. Vegeta is the best part of DBZ/DBS so far. And if you watch the TFS abridged stuff, still amazing.
I mean they are "cool" , they get enough backstory to matter and the emotional impact is there because they kill characters we like. But they still are simple bad guys without any other characteristics so there is that Another shounen: HxH does this a lot better for example.
The villains don't have all that much character development on the more traditional level but they do have a whole lot of "villain development" in the form of showing what kind of villains they are. Both Freeza and Cell were fine villains and generic would be the last word I'd use to describe them.
I agree that this is Dragon Ball and it is a children's cartoon. So you can say this is too high a demand. But if people say they love Vegeta as a villain in DBZ, that is because he is not a black and white person.
That they turned him evil again as Majin Vegeta, that was a really strong move. I think they should always keep the danger looming in the audience that Vegeta may become stronger than Goku, backstab some people, and then become a true villain again.
So if you want more of that, you shouldn't introduce villains as they are needed to be defeated, but plan ahead. I think Zamasu angle was better. But now, who is really the prime villain Zen-Oh? And the fight is between the characters we know and mostly brand new ones, we don't care about yet.
On April 11 2017 05:31 Mohdoo wrote: I dunno wtf you guys are talking about. Cell having distinct personality traits from various characters was highly enjoyable.
On April 11 2017 05:31 Mohdoo wrote: I dunno wtf you guys are talking about. Cell having distinct personality traits from various characters was highly enjoyable.
Doesnt that right there just show how stupid gohan vs krillin was...
Hey Krillin is a cop now that means he got a lot stronger :O
On April 11 2017 07:14 LegalLord wrote: The villains don't have all that much character development on the more traditional level but they do have a whole lot of "villain development" in the form of showing what kind of villains they are. Both Freeza and Cell were fine villains and generic would be the last word I'd use to describe them.
Oh yeah they worked in the context of dragonball. Both were far better villains than zamasu for example. Still at the end of the day there wasn't more to them than being evil which is always kinda bland. Even if it is only a fighting shounen.
On April 11 2017 05:31 Mohdoo wrote: I dunno wtf you guys are talking about. Cell having distinct personality traits from various characters was highly enjoyable.
Doesnt that right there just show how stupid gohan vs krillin was...
Yup. This is the scene that established someone should not even be moved so long as they understand they will be attacked. Gohan being moved by krillin in the midst of a fight was a direct contradiction to existing DBZ lore.
True, but it's the only way to make the characters viable in the tournament. By making them support/tactical. The fact that Krillin and SSJB Goku even had a beam struggle to begin with was silly. Even at 0.001% a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku would obliterate anything Krillin can generate.
I'm guessing they'll make it so other teams have similar characters and not just 10 powerhouses.
On April 11 2017 20:05 Thezzy wrote: True, but it's the only way to make the characters viable in the tournament. By making them support/tactical. The fact that Krillin and SSJB Goku even had a beam struggle to begin with was silly. Even at 0.001% a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku would obliterate anything Krillin can generate.
I'm guessing they'll make it so other teams have similar characters and not just 10 powerhouses.
What i think most people who are upset is that these characters dont need to be particularly relevant for a good dragon ball super story. Especially if doing so screws over the semblance of power ranking that dbz has built over the years and has been pretty much cemented for the fans on who is relatively stronger.
On April 11 2017 20:05 Thezzy wrote: True, but it's the only way to make the characters viable in the tournament. By making them support/tactical. The fact that Krillin and SSJB Goku even had a beam struggle to begin with was silly. Even at 0.001% a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku would obliterate anything Krillin can generate.
I'm guessing they'll make it so other teams have similar characters and not just 10 powerhouses.
Remember when Goku accidentally slapped Chichi through a brick fucking wall and tree?
EPT
