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On October 22 2015 06:02 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 17:42 Sent. wrote:
Clone wars are canon? Maybe I will give it a second chance then, tried watching it but I dropped it after a season or two because it seemed like silly episodic cartoon for kids. Which Clone Wars? There was one on Cartoon Network. It was short, not very good overall but it had its moments (Anakin slipping towards the Dark Side). And the CG one, which was generally pretty good. Episodes were pretty lackluster but there were a couple gems in there and the plot was usually much deeper, better and mature than EP I-III.
I liked the 2D animated ones. The action sequences were badass even if rather over-the-top. Mace Windu jumping around and punching droids to death can never be forgotten.
I still need to go through the newer CG one though. From what I've heard, the early seasons are kiddy and weak but the later seasons get dark and pretty good.
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Canada11397 Posts
That's a fair reading- it was a pretty hopeful ending. The question, I guess is does the tone stay the same. Furthermore, some of the interesting continuations in the EU were when the authors tackled some of the consequences that the original movies blithely pushed over. Even some of really terrible EU books, asked interesting questions like did Luke ever struggle with the idea that the Death Star also had a lot of support personnel on board when it blew up. So it's possible to go a different route. But I'd be fine with Luke going Obi Wan/ Yoda hermit- hence my zen option.
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The EU had some pretty interesting stories, but as a whole it was a bloated mess of inconsistency that only occasionally was interesting. It wouldn't be far from the truth to say that only the Zahn stories were good (and a few of the lesser known ones were merely "ok"), and it was a horrible mess to keep in continuity. They are certainly interesting sometimes and a few are worth exploring again (and they should make more material with inspiration from the books) but there was no good way to just keep it all as canon.
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How do you think they will explain presence of Sith? Unless the rule of 2 has also been declared non canon the Sith should have been wiped out now right?
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On October 22 2015 14:05 B.I.G. wrote:
How do you think they will explain presence of Sith? Unless the rule of 2 has also been declared non canon the Sith should have been wiped out now right?
Some shits going on in the EU was that there was some force sensitive red guards taught by the emperor. While not fully trained force wielder, they were at least force sensitive and capable of wielding a lightsaber better than average. Don't know if you follow Star Wars Rebels, but like the Inquisitor in the serie. Not full Sith, coz he hasn't got the capabilities, tho he is force sensitive, and a decent saber wielder.
And rule of two cannot be non-canon cause it's first and foremost mentioned in the prequels, which are canon.
@Hawk
yeah just as easily as they could be hiding Luke under the mask for a pretty lazy plot
Does seem less and less likely to me. As I pointed out before, guy at 1:40 in the trailer, touching R2 with a RIGHT mechanical hand ? That's definitely Luke. And he is wearing white clothes, doesn't seem too kiely for a Sith.
I really hope it's not Luke under the mask. I would rather he had a misguided idea that if he was the last trained Jedi, then if he trained no-one else, there will be no more light side users alright, but there certainly won't be any one that can fall to the dark side. But the rise of this broadsword Sith crashes that dream and brings him out of hiding. Or some sort of crippling fear that if his father was corrupted, maybe he would follow the same path- a psychological hold over from his battle with the Emperor.
Btw, it strikes me now that it is even less likely. Luke has been challenged by the dark side, and he did not gave in. It is not likely that he will just give in in-between those 30 years, accompanied by three force ghosts (or two, depends of the version you consider canon  ) as powerfull and wise as his father, Obi-Wan and Yoda (mb even Qui-Gon).
If you ask me, there's NO WAY it's Luke. Like, no chance at all.
EDIT : On October 22 2015 08:18 wo1fwood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:07 SkrollK wrote:On October 21 2015 17:47 B.I.G. wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again: I have a lot of faith in Disney to make a great movie. In my opinion they have a long track record of making excellent products and I have no doubt that they will deliver a very polished and well thought out product.
Pleasing the purists might be difficult but I think that with movies like Star Wars it is neigh impossible to please everyone because there are simply to many different opinions on how things should be.
I'm just going to go in open minded and see what their vision of this franchise is. Canon be damned xD Honestly, I'm quite like you. I mean, everyone cried and spat out on the prequels, saying it was a shame, not in the spirit, or whatever... To me they were good movies. Not the best I ever saw, but very good movies nonetheless. And I'm a huge fan of the star wars universe, I'm old enough to have seen them in the right order, (IV, V, VI, I, II, III) and I was not feeling at all that they were betraying the universe and the star wars franchise or w/e. The only thing I am disapointed in is the EU being thrown to the bin like that, 20+ years of work disappearing in a blink of an eye... And I'm really sad and disappointed because that. I have no bad feeling about the movie, i'll take it how it come, I'm just mad @Disney for the destruction of all the Star Wars I knew and I loved for 15+ years. I will respectfully disagree with you on the prequels being good movies. At their core, the overall concept or narrative arcs of them are pretty decent (if too long). But that being said, those movies all suffered a myriad of small problems in execution an inconsistency from all over the place in its production that completely mared the end-result; some of it in the writing (certain characters, the from-left-field-slapstick, the far too large narrative scope), some of it in casting (little anakin was a terrible choice, big annie wasn't much better), and some simply in the execution of the drama from various parties. Essentially the problems with episodes 1-3 can likely be summed up with "George Lucas gained too much power, and it went to his head." Wait.... that sounds familiar. Anyway, I wouldn't be that disappointed with the EU being gone. Because of that Star Wars has an opportunity to unify the best parts of everything that had happened and construct an incredible world from that, as they don't have to deal with the retconning that inevitably happens when something isn't completely planned, and thereby breaking stuff all over the place. Though... Thrawn is badass.
That's your very own right, sir
Even tho I don't really understand what you're saying (genuinely).
What are you feeling as problems in executions, inconsistency ?
Also, sorry there but I have not understood that expression "the from-left-field-slapstick"
And what about Ani's actor ? IMO, he was not the best, but not that bad either.
From what I do understand, you are someone who is keen on movies, and who has high expectations in the actor plays, the whole filming thing, ...
I'm a total profane in those fields, that's probably why to me they are good and why they are not quite the same for you.
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Sry, wrong button 
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On October 21 2015 03:14 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 18:41 LoneYoShi wrote:On October 20 2015 18:13 SkrollK wrote:On October 20 2015 18:02 Kipsate wrote:
wait a fucking minute, I haven't kept up much with Star Wars but is that Darth Revan
I thought SWTOR was not canon
what is going on. There is no cannon anymore afaik. Disney is deciding what is cannon and what is not. And that stinks. Disney said that outside of the 6 movies, nothing that was made before they bought the Star Wars franchise isconsidered cannon anymore. The cannon now is only the 6 movies + everything that they produced since Disney bought SW (SW: Rebels TV show, there were some comics too, obviously the upcoming movies, etc). So yeah, you can now forget all of what you knew about the universe. Dark Revan and the KOTOR Era ? Gone. The Yuuzhan Vong ? Never existed. Thrawn ? Just a dream. Jaina and Jacen ? Pffft. The adventures of Rogue and Wraith squadron ? Nope. And the list goes on. why should you forget about those things because some company tells you? It's all fantasy anyway so you can believe what you want about what happened or what didn't happen. maybe for disney it's not canon anymore for me it is. who cares what is "officially" called canon and what not?
I care because I was emotionnally invested in all those characters. I was curious about them, wanted to learn more about them, get to know them better through more stories, etc. Now I know that I'll never have that, so I feel like all the hours I spent reading the books and getting to know those characters were waisted. I mean obviously they were not since I was enjoying reading those books very much, but there's still this bitter after taste.
It kinda feels like Disney officially "killed" all those characters and stories. There's no hope of seeing them ever again. And that's sad, because some of those characters were worth knowing (Thrawn, Karrde, the Vongs, Corran Horn, etc).
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Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to 
On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids
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On October 22 2015 18:53 Asturas wrote:Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids
Well let's be honest, the vast majority of the EU was shit, on par with long-form internet fanfiction (which is how Disney is treating it). Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the only losses I mourn. Clone Wars was decent, Rebels is actually pretty good, and the movies were all good. I like that they're taking it in a new direction.
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On October 22 2015 22:52 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 18:53 Asturas wrote:Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids Well let's be honest, the vast majority of the EU was shit, on par with long-form internet fanfiction (which is how Disney is treating it). Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the only losses I mourn. Clone Wars was decent, Rebels is actually pretty good, and the movies were all good. I like that they're taking it in a new direction.
Karrde !!!!!
Seriously that character was truly a fantastic one.
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On October 22 2015 23:06 SkrollK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 22:52 deth2munkies wrote:On October 22 2015 18:53 Asturas wrote:Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids Well let's be honest, the vast majority of the EU was shit, on par with long-form internet fanfiction (which is how Disney is treating it). Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the only losses I mourn. Clone Wars was decent, Rebels is actually pretty good, and the movies were all good. I like that they're taking it in a new direction. Karrde !!!!! Seriously that character was truly a fantastic one.
I don't agree with you deth2munkies. There were indeed some really shitty books (the one in which Xizor brainwashes Leia in order to marry her comes to mind). But there are and good amount that I liked a lot.
Edit: a small list, far from being exhaustive, of characters I liked (besides Thrawn and Mara Jade who rock :D):
- Karrde is indeed super cool
- Revan from the KOTOR Era (which has been wiped clean as well fyi)
- Jacen Solo
- Anakin Solo
- the whole Noghri race
- etc
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On October 22 2015 23:13 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 23:06 SkrollK wrote:On October 22 2015 22:52 deth2munkies wrote:On October 22 2015 18:53 Asturas wrote:Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids Well let's be honest, the vast majority of the EU was shit, on par with long-form internet fanfiction (which is how Disney is treating it). Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the only losses I mourn. Clone Wars was decent, Rebels is actually pretty good, and the movies were all good. I like that they're taking it in a new direction. Karrde !!!!! Seriously that character was truly a fantastic one. I don't agree with you deth2munkies. There were indeed some really shitty books (the one in which Xizor brainwashes Leia in order to marry her comes to mind). But there are and good amount that I liked a lot.
The entire concept of the (and I can't remember how to spell it) Youzan Vong was stupid. Resurrecting the Emperor as a clone was stupid. The entire "sith world with evil entity still there" thing was overdone to hell. There was a lot of fanservice in just "this generic story features Luke Skywalker and Leia as a Jedi killing lots of baddies!". I'll be honest and say I didn't read all of them, but I read a fair amount. Once I hit about 18 I stopped finding them too compelling.
And for the record: I'm not sure the Old Republic stuff is completely gone, but if both KotOR games and (to a lesser extent) the MMO no longer exist, that's a loss too.
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On October 22 2015 23:18 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 23:13 LoneYoShi wrote:On October 22 2015 23:06 SkrollK wrote:On October 22 2015 22:52 deth2munkies wrote:On October 22 2015 18:53 Asturas wrote:Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids Well let's be honest, the vast majority of the EU was shit, on par with long-form internet fanfiction (which is how Disney is treating it). Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the only losses I mourn. Clone Wars was decent, Rebels is actually pretty good, and the movies were all good. I like that they're taking it in a new direction. Karrde !!!!! Seriously that character was truly a fantastic one. I don't agree with you deth2munkies. There were indeed some really shitty books (the one in which Xizor brainwashes Leia in order to marry her comes to mind). But there are and good amount that I liked a lot. The entire concept of the (and I can't remember how to spell it) Youzan Vong was stupid. Resurrecting the Emperor as a clone was stupid. The entire "sith world with evil entity still there" thing was overdone to hell. There was a lot of fanservice in just "this generic story features Luke Skywalker and Leia as a Jedi killing lots of baddies!". I'll be honest and say I didn't read all of them, but I read a fair amount. Once I hit about 18 I stopped finding them too compelling. And for the record: I'm not sure the Old Republic stuff is completely gone, but if both KotOR games and (to a lesser extent) the MMO no longer exist, that's a loss too.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I liked the Yuuzhan Vongs, they felt fresh, different and original. Plus, there were quite interesting moral/ethic questions raised by their acts and religion. Add to that the fact that for once, even our heroes were threatened and that the stakes couldn't have been bigger, and to me that makes a great series ! I also loved the fact that they made us re-think the whole "Palpatine builds a huge weapon (twice !) that doesn't really make any sense form a tactical standpoint" in the movies. It even tied in nicely with the Thrawn trilogy.
But yeah, Palpatine's clone was a stupid idea.
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On October 22 2015 17:24 SkrollK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 22 2015 14:05 B.I.G. wrote:
How do you think they will explain presence of Sith? Unless the rule of 2 has also been declared non canon the Sith should have been wiped out now right? Some shits going on in the EU was that there was some force sensitive red guards taught by the emperor. While not fully trained force wielder, they were at least force sensitive and capable of wielding a lightsaber better than average. Don't know if you follow Star Wars Rebels, but like the Inquisitor in the serie. Not full Sith, coz he hasn't got the capabilities, tho he is force sensitive, and a decent saber wielder. And rule of two cannot be non-canon cause it's first and foremost mentioned in the prequels, which are canon. @Hawk yeah just as easily as they could be hiding Luke under the mask for a pretty lazy plot Does seem less and less likely to me. As I pointed out before, guy at 1:40 in the trailer, touching R2 with a RIGHT mechanical hand ? That's definitely Luke. And he is wearing white clothes, doesn't seem too kiely for a Sith. I really hope it's not Luke under the mask. I would rather he had a misguided idea that if he was the last trained Jedi, then if he trained no-one else, there will be no more light side users alright, but there certainly won't be any one that can fall to the dark side. But the rise of this broadsword Sith crashes that dream and brings him out of hiding. Or some sort of crippling fear that if his father was corrupted, maybe he would follow the same path- a psychological hold over from his battle with the Emperor. Btw, it strikes me now that it is even less likely. Luke has been challenged by the dark side, and he did not gave in. It is not likely that he will just give in in-between those 30 years, accompanied by three force ghosts (or two, depends of the version you consider canon ) as powerfull and wise as his father, Obi-Wan and Yoda (mb even Qui-Gon). If you ask me, there's NO WAY it's Luke. Like, no chance at all. EDIT : On October 22 2015 08:18 wo1fwood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:07 SkrollK wrote:On October 21 2015 17:47 B.I.G. wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again: I have a lot of faith in Disney to make a great movie. In my opinion they have a long track record of making excellent products and I have no doubt that they will deliver a very polished and well thought out product.
Pleasing the purists might be difficult but I think that with movies like Star Wars it is neigh impossible to please everyone because there are simply to many different opinions on how things should be.
I'm just going to go in open minded and see what their vision of this franchise is. Canon be damned xD Honestly, I'm quite like you. I mean, everyone cried and spat out on the prequels, saying it was a shame, not in the spirit, or whatever... To me they were good movies. Not the best I ever saw, but very good movies nonetheless. And I'm a huge fan of the star wars universe, I'm old enough to have seen them in the right order, (IV, V, VI, I, II, III) and I was not feeling at all that they were betraying the universe and the star wars franchise or w/e. The only thing I am disapointed in is the EU being thrown to the bin like that, 20+ years of work disappearing in a blink of an eye... And I'm really sad and disappointed because that. I have no bad feeling about the movie, i'll take it how it come, I'm just mad @Disney for the destruction of all the Star Wars I knew and I loved for 15+ years. I will respectfully disagree with you on the prequels being good movies. At their core, the overall concept or narrative arcs of them are pretty decent (if too long). But that being said, those movies all suffered a myriad of small problems in execution an inconsistency from all over the place in its production that completely mared the end-result; some of it in the writing (certain characters, the from-left-field-slapstick, the far too large narrative scope), some of it in casting (little anakin was a terrible choice, big annie wasn't much better), and some simply in the execution of the drama from various parties. Essentially the problems with episodes 1-3 can likely be summed up with "George Lucas gained too much power, and it went to his head." Wait.... that sounds familiar. Anyway, I wouldn't be that disappointed with the EU being gone. Because of that Star Wars has an opportunity to unify the best parts of everything that had happened and construct an incredible world from that, as they don't have to deal with the retconning that inevitably happens when something isn't completely planned, and thereby breaking stuff all over the place. Though... Thrawn is badass. That's your very own right, sir Even tho I don't really understand what you're saying (genuinely). What are you feeling as problems in executions, inconsistency ? Also, sorry there but I have not understood that expression "the from-left-field-slapstick" And what about Ani's actor ? IMO, he was not the best, but not that bad either. From what I do understand, you are someone who is keen on movies, and who has high expectations in the actor plays, the whole filming thing, ... I'm a total profane in those fields, that's probably why to me they are good and why they are not quite the same for you. you're absolutely right that I have very high expectations for any artistic endeavor, paramount of which is consistency (which is to say that whatever is being made only needs to follow its own internal consistency, high or low art to me is irrelevant as art is art, is art). If you're curious and have the time to go through it all Red Letter Media has a very in depth look into some of what problems plague the first three films. I would quibble about some of the narrative trajectory that he explains as 'normal' or 'good', but he touches on a lot of aspects about storytelling that is really helpful in understanding why the first three suffer so many issues.
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The rule of 2 was explained in the Clone Wars (which is canon) to be part of a sect of the Sith. It's not like during the Sith Empire there were only 2 "real" Sith. It's just that this sect of Sith outlived the Empire. There's no real rule other than that why there can only be 1 master and 1 apprentice. Plus, Clone Wars has Ventriss as Darth Tyranus's apprentice despite the fact he was apprenticed to Darth Sideous so in reality, it really doesn't mean anything.
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I think it's also important to remember that the Sith aren't the only Dark Jedi in the SW universe.
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I think with the death of Palpatine and Vader, the Sith line has effectively ended. The EU had a bunch of crap about Palpatine being revived and lost Sith tribes and apprentices surviving, but hopefully those won't be reused.
Kylo Ren and maybe the rest of his Knights of Ren could utilize the dark side and learn from whatever surviving scraps of Sith knowledge are left, but they won't be Sith. They'll be something else entirely, and I think it'll be exciting to see where that goes. The Jedi may not be the same too if Luke changes up the way Jedi are trained. We'll see how they change up the age-old conflict between the Dark and Light sides of the Force.
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I'm really disappointed in the new Trailer. I don't know, I feel we see too much of the new characters and stuff. I liked the first nostalgia trailer more.
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I'm actually starting to like the new characters. They seem pretty good and I think they will grow into their own eventually.
I heard the old characters will have a pretty significant role in this one though, so no worries about them being sidelined.
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On October 23 2015 06:14 Hadleyx88 wrote:I'm really disappointed in the new Trailer. I don't know, I feel we see too much of the new characters and stuff. I liked the first nostalgia trailer more.
Wow completely disagree. This is set 30 years later after RotJ, I'd be extremely disappointed if this movie was just basically the adventures of grandma and grandpa Solo/Skywalker. It'd reek of Disney just trying to milk more money out of the franchise using very obvious fan service. We need to see the new generation, the old guys need to be there as guides and sources of wisdom.
On October 22 2015 23:18 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 23:13 LoneYoShi wrote:On October 22 2015 23:06 SkrollK wrote:On October 22 2015 22:52 deth2munkies wrote:On October 22 2015 18:53 Asturas wrote:Since new movie ignores the existence of Expanded Universe, this is nothing more than simply a fan film. Possibly a very good one, but not worth getting too attached to On a more serious note - I lost my interest in SW because Disney murdered EU. One day I will watch EVII, but not in the cinema. I am not enough excited for it. Without EU Star Wars is incredibly empty. You know, only 6 movies and a crappy TV series for kids Well let's be honest, the vast majority of the EU was shit, on par with long-form internet fanfiction (which is how Disney is treating it). Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the only losses I mourn. Clone Wars was decent, Rebels is actually pretty good, and the movies were all good. I like that they're taking it in a new direction. Karrde !!!!! Seriously that character was truly a fantastic one. I don't agree with you deth2munkies. There were indeed some really shitty books (the one in which Xizor brainwashes Leia in order to marry her comes to mind). But there are and good amount that I liked a lot. The entire concept of the (and I can't remember how to spell it) Youzan Vong was stupid. Resurrecting the Emperor as a clone was stupid. The entire "sith world with evil entity still there" thing was overdone to hell. There was a lot of fanservice in just "this generic story features Luke Skywalker and Leia as a Jedi killing lots of baddies!". I'll be honest and say I didn't read all of them, but I read a fair amount. Once I hit about 18 I stopped finding them too compelling. And for the record: I'm not sure the Old Republic stuff is completely gone, but if both KotOR games and (to a lesser extent) the MMO no longer exist, that's a loss too.
So glad someone said this. I see a lot of people in this thread disappointed with the scrapping of the EU. I didn't read much into it because what I read seemed lame and forced, though I did read a lot about it through wikis and summaries. None of it seemed worth spending much time on. I'd be disappointed in the SW community if the general consensus is that the EU should have been respected as canon. Glad that most people are still excited about where SW is going to go despite the decision to get rid of the EU/fan service novels.
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