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On January 14 2016 20:01 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 07:59 Belisarius wrote:
Kylo is fine, imo. It's a pretty interesting character and something quite new. His internal conflict is really quite clever when you put him beside Vader, as p6 said.
I do think he'd be more compelling if he was legitimately dangerous when not crying into his perfectly blow-dried hair, but that's as much a problem with Rey's eyeroll-inducing powerup as with Kylo himself.
Presumably movie 2 is going to open with parallel training montages of Luke/Rey and Snokes/Kylo, and then they'll fight again. I could maybe have accepted Kylo Ren if he never took his helmet off or had an actor with more... intimidating features, beard, deep voice, military cut hair and all of that. Sure, he has the same basic look as Loki from the Thor/Avengers movies and Loki is much better received and more believable as bad guy, but neither can Kylo Ren pull that look off properly nor does that look fit into Star Wars at all.
Having a slim pretty boy was deliberate. Imagine Russel Crowe, tall, muscular, and manly as Kylo Ren. Then see Russel Crowe get beat by a tiny girl. The movie would turn into a comedy.
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Canada11412 Posts
Adam Driver with a beard looks completely fine for a villain. As part of his levelling up to be a formidable baddie for the next film, he should definitely grow a beard.
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They made him look young intentionally so he can seem like a peer to Rey and Finn. Unlike Vader, the mask Kylo uses is to hide his appearance, like masks are supposed to.
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If Kylo Reno is bad/weird or really awesome will be clear aftet the next movie. They set him up to be either great or really bad... we'll see.
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I find it highly ironic that the movie who gets criticized like no other for copying stuff out of the other movies of its franchise gets also critiqued for something which is completely different (and tbh quite ballsy and interesting): The villain being Kylo Ren and all he embodies.
Most criticism about him is extremely shallow and nonsensical too, like did you guys even watch the same movie? Most people really wanted another Darth Vader who at the end of the day is boring as fuck as a character.
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Vader is defined by an amazing voice actor and the twist that he is the protagonist father. But without that one aspect, he is just a generic sci-fi villain. A lot of what makes him interesting is reviewing the previous movies with the context that he was trying to find his son to be with him(Empire forward), rather than just turn him. And the voice acting of Jones carries aspect of the performance.
They couldn’t do that again and needed to create a new dynamic between the heroes and villain. Kylo represent the failures of the previous generation along with a reminder that falling to the dark side is always a threat.
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Well maybe the problem is Kylo Ren losing vs a girl that probably some nerd on TL could beat up irl.
Whenether they put in some highly sexuaized female to get money from the male audience or some empowered female to get money from the female audience, I don't care either way because a woman in a physical combat role is always unconvincing.
Otherwise, you are just watching a girl beat up Mike Tyson; when you see it it is entirely unconvincing.
Reminds me of the person here who bought the Phasma toy for her daughter. Now there's a role model for your daughter. She can mow down children but once there is a little danger she betrays everyone she is not brutally butchering, to save her own selfish ass. And even at that she fails because she dies before her actions cause the planet to be blown up, which would have killed her anyway. Unless has magical plot armor/toy armor merchandise sales armor secretly saved her.
No, great way to raise your daughter. How is that better than giving your daugher Barbie dolls when her mother is already 'big boned' and on the SAD diet?
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I am pretty sure most of the members of TL would be to chicken shit to talk to Daisy Ridley, so winning a fight is pretty out of the question.
And remember:
+ Show Spoiler +
Always. Every time "female" is used when the word "woman" could be, it sounds like that.
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On January 15 2016 02:34 Plansix wrote:I am pretty sure most of the members of TL would be to chicken shit to talk to Daisy Ridley, so winning a fight is pretty out of the question. And remember: + Show Spoiler +Always. Every time "female" is used when the word "woman" could be, it sounds like that.
I'd tell her to make me a sandwich while I watch the StarWars oldies and explain her why her movie sucks ass compared to them. Don't laugh this is precisely what I would do.
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Canada11412 Posts
On January 15 2016 01:51 Plansix wrote:
They made him look young intentionally so he can seem like a peer to Rey and Finn. Unlike Vader, the mask Kylo uses is to hide his appearance, like masks are supposed to.
Oh I'm fine with having him look young for this movie, but I think in the second he should really grow a beard. You can even go back to the older idea of the Dark Side of the Force tends to eat away at you- which is what we generally thought caused the Emperor's appearance until Episode III gave us feedback lightning.
Well maybe the problem is Kylo Ren losing vs a girl that probably some nerd on TL could beat up irl.
Now you aren't even trying to carefully think about the film. This is pure 'I dislike this film' comments. "Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you. Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is."
Reasonable arguments have been made on both sides on whether Rey's Force power was given sufficient cause. Jumping into arguments about whether nerds could physically beat up Rey says much more about your hatred for the film than the actual film's quality.
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The first thought that crossed my mind when Snoke spoke about "completing his training", was that they'll kill him in the beginning of VIII, because he fucked up. Then introduce a new toy (for snoke and merchandise  ). I hope that doesn't happen.
Now that i think of it... Maybe he did everything right and Rey already lead them to Skywalker? Sensing her, or having a tracking device in the Falcon or R2? I dunno, we'll see.
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I always got the impression that “sensing someone” was less radar and more of a feeling that they are around or nearby. That it couldn’t be used to figure out where someone was or how far they away they are.
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On January 15 2016 02:27 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
Well maybe the problem is Kylo Ren losing vs a girl that probably some nerd on TL could beat up irl.
Whenether they put in some highly sexuaized female to get money from the male audience or some empowered female to get money from the female audience, I don't care either way because a woman in a physical combat role is always unconvincing.
Otherwise, you are just watching a girl beat up Mike Tyson; when you see it it is entirely unconvincing.
Reminds me of the person here who bought the Phasma toy for her daughter. Now there's a role model for your daughter. She can mow down children but once there is a little danger she betrays everyone she is not brutally butchering, to save her own selfish ass. And even at that she fails because she dies before her actions cause the planet to be blown up, which would have killed her anyway. Unless has magical plot armor/toy armor merchandise sales armor secretly saved her.
No, great way to raise your daughter. How is that better than giving your daugher Barbie dolls when her mother is already 'big boned' and on the SAD diet?
Come on, can't you just shut up ?
I mean, clearly, you don't even think before you post something, so, please, just leave already...
We clearly understood that you DESPISE this movie, so, carry on.
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If Snoke is such an evil genius, why would he invest more time and energy into Kylo? Is he not evil? Or is he not a genius?
Please don't insult me. Unlike some of you, I am not allowed to respond. It hurts me when I am insulted but can't say anything back. Thanks.
Rey doesn't know the force exists. You can't say she is powerful because she uses the force like Yoda.
Anyway, Lucas himself fucked Yoda up in II and III, so he basically retconned that Yoda quote anyway. Yoda is a physically powerful warrior. Maybe his species have supermuscles and he is male.
I have to admit I was entirely unconvinced by that piece of CGI flying around. Now we are supposed to think Yoda was the wisest of all the jedi. But he is like Nestor in the Iliad, intentional or unintentional, I don't know.
Nestor in the Iliad always gives bad advice, but everyone looks at him as the wisest of the Achaeans. His bad advice causes all the bad fortune in the book. At least with Homer we know it was meant as comic relief. Not sure about Lucas.
Same with Yoda. Siduous was under his nose all the time. Even the audience that doesn't know how the story will end, they will know long before Yoda that Palpatine is the Sith lord and that Anakin is going to the dark side.
But still, we know this is supposed to be the strongest force user. So when he would beat the main villain, unconvincing as it would look physically, at least he has 600 years of being a jedi grandmaster. What does Rey have?
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It’s a sign to move on or follow the advice given in Bambi. Falling was correct that the quality of your comments has degraded to baseless jabs and stupid comments about beating up the lead actress. And no one is interested in re-hashing the "How did Rey beat wounded Kylo Ren" discussion for the 20th time. Pick a new, less shitty topic.
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Well, we have her trying to beat up some other dude. Beating up people is the main thing the movie is about. Didn't seem too strange to bring it up.
Other dude is supposed to be badass because people are afraid he will beat them up.
I know that mentioning 'beating up a girl' would feel wrong, and draw out the cheap shots I now recieve, making you guys look weak at arguing in the eyes of people whose opinion I would respect.
Everything is proceeding as I have forseen.
Falling is one of the last people on TL that should complain about post quality. Let him without sin throw the first stone.
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On January 14 2016 20:01 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 07:59 Belisarius wrote:
Kylo is fine, imo. It's a pretty interesting character and something quite new. His internal conflict is really quite clever when you put him beside Vader, as p6 said.
I do think he'd be more compelling if he was legitimately dangerous when not crying into his perfectly blow-dried hair, but that's as much a problem with Rey's eyeroll-inducing powerup as with Kylo himself.
Presumably movie 2 is going to open with parallel training montages of Luke/Rey and Snokes/Kylo, and then they'll fight again. I could maybe have accepted Kylo Ren if he never took his helmet off or had an actor with more... intimidating features, beard, deep voice, military cut hair and all of that. Sure, he has the same basic look as Loki from the Thor/Avengers movies and Loki is much better received and more believable as bad guy, but neither can Kylo Ren pull that look off properly nor does that look fit into Star Wars at all.
I think the thing about Adam Driver that people don't notice is that he shows very little facial micro-expressions in his acting. I loved him in Girls mainly for this reason, because he could say the most outlandish things without any movement in his face, which was hilarious. However, when he revealed himself in Star Wars, there was a need for more micro-expressions to show the emotion behind his motivations. It's subtle, but the right facial movements at the right time creates an entirely different atmosphere. I think that was what was lacking in some of his crucial scenes.
I know that might be considered nitpicking to some, but I think what separates good acting from great acting lies in these subtleties.
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On January 15 2016 04:53 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
Well, we have her trying to beat up some other dude. Beating up people is the main thing the movie is about. Didn't seem too strange to bring it up.
Other dude is supposed to be badass because people are afraid he will beat them up.
I know that mentioning 'beating up a girl' would feel wrong, and draw out the cheap shots I now recieve, making you guys look weak at arguing in the eyes of people whose opinion I would respect.
Everything is proceeding as I have forseen.
If star wars was MMA in space you comments might make sense. Instead you have precedent of a tiny grandpa looking elf dude who is supposed to be the strongest out there.
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On January 15 2016 02:27 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
Well maybe the problem is Kylo Ren losing vs a girl that probably some nerd on TL could beat up irl.
Whenether they put in some highly sexuaized female to get money from the male audience or some empowered female to get money from the female audience, I don't care either way because a woman in a physical combat role is always unconvincing.
But the all point of the force is that it's not a physical combat. A jedi fight isn't determined by who has the more strength.
If the universe was more coherent, jedis wouldn't even use sabers against each other and fight with their mind (which would explain easier how Yoda, the emperor or a cripple can be masters) but I guess that wasn't cool enough so Lucas felt the need to have the confrontation take a physical aspect.
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Didn't I just talk about that? You found Yoda convincing? He was supposed to be physically weak, wise, but strong in the force. Did you see the prequels?
Rey barely knew how to use the force. Yoda was supposed to be the 600 year old jedi grandmaster. And we never saw Yoda fight(until the prequels fucked that up). You think making him beat up Darth Vader would make Darth Vader look badass?
Pay attention.
Lucas being coherent about Star Wars or not, Kylo Ren being beaten by a skinny girl with no training in the force or the martial arts diminishes him as a badass.
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EPT
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