EPTPlus he has all the character I needed with that single line and the way he drew the stun baton/club/spin weapon.
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 183
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Plus he has all the character I needed with that single line and the way he drew the stun baton/club/spin weapon. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Phasma wasn't particularly good but also only sees attention because she was hyped up by Disney. I generally just wouldn't care at all if there was no attention given to her. Ren and Gen. Ginger were both solid villains. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Especially the Han solo death: Kylo has been struggling with the force. It would have been great, when, after killing Han, he just doesnt let him fall, but instead first tries to hold him with the power of the force (maybe even moves him standing up again), still struggling with his feelings. Then realizes how his emotions have increased his power through the force, he just throws Han back into the abyss and goes chasing for the other guy,s going full dark side. (From my understandingof the sith teachings, giving in to emotions increases the power of the force.) Of course, this might run contrary to the plans the authors have for him | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
On January 13 2016 16:41 FuzzyJAM wrote: I get that we're supposed to originally think Ren is awesome and then gradually see him as more pathetic, but that doesn't change my question: if not Ren, then who are we supposed to be scared of? And if we're not supposed to be intimidated by anyone, doesn't that leave a gaping hole? A hero's journey without an intimidating villain is not a particularly heroic journey. Now, maybe they're aiming at deliberately undermining the hero's journey. . .but what's the replacement? I really don't get it at all. That's not a problem of Ren, it's a problem of Snoke. Also, why aren't you scared of the First Order? They committed mass genocide. Yeah, the deaths of billions never becomes real to the viewer. But that's not a problem with Ren. It's a problem with the overal movie. Ren is one of the few things they did well. That Ren isn't intimidating is also in part because Rey already beat him. That's a problem with Rey, not Ren. Ren could have been who he is and still be way the strongest sith at that point in time, way way stronger than Rey. But they magically made Rey magically strong. Whatever character development they had going with Ren, it's now kind of pointless, assuming the next movie is about Rey. And even if they make Finn a force sensitive, if he is to train to now not lose to Ren, what good will that do? The audience want Rey instead of him. They should have let Kylo kill Finn and beat Rey. Or else make it a PG-13 and just go with the girl audience alltogether. Add a prince for Rey. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 14 2016 02:08 ticklishmusic wrote: Kylo Ren is a super cool idea, but could have been a better character if they made the distinction between his light/ dark sides a lot more clear cut. In that context, his inner conflicts esp. with Han would have been much more moving. The way it came out he's a kid whose main power is Force Tantrum. That tantrum evolves beyond that and becomes Vader's killing all of his officers as they fail. But that is years after Vader crushed almost every of sympathy, empathy and good part of him until he was the cold, killing machine we see in the movies. And at that point his rage is expressed in the emotionless, cold killing of his officers. Kylo is in the process of getting to that point, but isn't willing to just murder the person who delivers him the message yet. It brings a lot of nuance to the fall to the dark side and that it isn't this instant shift, but a process that takes time. Even decades. Edit: The movie was PG-13. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I do think he'd be more compelling if he was legitimately dangerous when not crying into his perfectly blow-dried hair, but that's as much a problem with Rey's eyeroll-inducing powerup as with Kylo himself. Presumably movie 2 is going to open with parallel training montages of Luke/Rey and Snokes/Kylo, and then they'll fight again. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On January 14 2016 03:04 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: That's not a problem of Ren, it's a problem of Snoke. Also, why aren't you scared of the First Order? They committed mass genocide. Yeah, the deaths of billions never becomes real to the viewer. But that's not a problem with Ren. It's a problem with the overal movie. Ren is one of the few things they did well. That Ren isn't intimidating is also in part because Rey already beat him. That's a problem with Rey, not Ren. Ren could have been who he is and still be way the strongest sith at that point in time, way way stronger than Rey. But they magically made Rey magically strong. Whatever character development they had going with Ren, it's now kind of pointless, assuming the next movie is about Rey. And even if they make Finn a force sensitive, if he is to train to now not lose to Ren, what good will that do? The audience want Rey instead of him. They should have let Kylo kill Finn and beat Rey. Or else make it a PG-13 and just go with the girl audience alltogether. Add a prince for Rey. Well yeah, I wasn't saying Ren was necessarily the problem, I was saying the film had one. He's the closest to a real villain that we get, and he's specifically written as not particularly competent (except he kind of is, when needed?). That's an issue. It's not necessarily an issue with his character - the issue could be solved in multiple ways - but it is an issue that is highlighted by his character, because he's as close as we get to a satisfying central villain. There's a gaping hole, and I assume Ren was written to fill it (unless it's supposed to be Snoke or Ginger General for real?), except he's simultaneously designed to be too small to fill that hole. Or unless they seriously tried to be artistic and change things and make a Star Wars without an intimidating villain? It's really very odd. I really think the whole of TFA needed a rewrite. There are a lot of great elements to the film but the basics of putting together a satisfying struggle are dealt with woefully poorly. It's honestly weird that they weren't noticed. Mind you, apparently most people love the film, so maybe they did just fine... Who's to say? I will be very interested to see how the film is viewed in a decade, though admittedly that'll have a lot to do with the rest of the trilogy. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On January 14 2016 09:32 FuzzyJAM wrote: Well yeah, I wasn't saying Ren was necessarily the problem, I was saying the film had one. He's the closest to a real villain that we get, and he's specifically written as not particularly competent (except he kind of is, when needed?). That's an issue. It's not necessarily an issue with his character - the issue could be solved in multiple ways - but it is an issue that is highlighted by his character, because he's as close as we get to a satisfying central villain. There's a gaping hole, and I assume Ren was written to fill it (unless it's supposed to be Snoke or Ginger General for real?), except he's simultaneously designed to be too small to fill that hole. Or unless they seriously tried to be artistic and change things and make a Star Wars without an intimidating villain? It's really very odd. I really think the whole of TFA needed a rewrite. There are a lot of great elements to the film but the basics of putting together a satisfying struggle are dealt with woefully poorly. It's honestly weird that they weren't noticed. Mind you, apparently most people love the film, so maybe they did just fine... Who's to say? I will be very interested to see how the film is viewed in a decade, though admittedly that'll have a lot to do with the rest of the trilogy. As I said in my last post, the movie really needed the Starkiller to fire at the end. You don't need one big villain to dominate the story. That's formulaic and predictable. You just need the villains to actually win so it actually sets up the plot. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
"bitch got off alderaan but couldn't escape us this time" | ||
Falling
Canada11593 Posts
Han Solo's death works well enough because Han Solo isn't being dumb- he is selflessly trying to redeem his son as well as fulfilling his (former?) wife's request. Whereas Leia was playing chicken with a Death Star... dying from that only serves to underscore an already existent flaw in the story. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I can't recall atm | ||
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Falling
Canada11593 Posts
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SkrollK
France580 Posts
On January 14 2016 18:00 The_Red_Viper wrote: i actually forgot, did they even know starkiller was trying to destroy their planet? Or did they just know it was loading to fire again? I can't recall atm Hum, they did knew, coz 3PO is just basically making the countdown, a la Ep IV. Resistance got the intel via a probe escaping to tell them the location, and FO get the intel by following the probe that they just let escape on purpose. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:59 Belisarius wrote: Kylo is fine, imo. It's a pretty interesting character and something quite new. His internal conflict is really quite clever when you put him beside Vader, as p6 said. I do think he'd be more compelling if he was legitimately dangerous when not crying into his perfectly blow-dried hair, but that's as much a problem with Rey's eyeroll-inducing powerup as with Kylo himself. Presumably movie 2 is going to open with parallel training montages of Luke/Rey and Snokes/Kylo, and then they'll fight again. I could maybe have accepted Kylo Ren if he never took his helmet off or had an actor with more... intimidating features, beard, deep voice, military cut hair and all of that. Sure, he has the same basic look as Loki from the Thor/Avengers movies and Loki is much better received and more believable as bad guy, but neither can Kylo Ren pull that look off properly nor does that look fit into Star Wars at all. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:59 Belisarius wrote: Presumably movie 2 is going to open with parallel training montages of Luke/Rey and Snokes/Kylo, and then they'll fight again. If they go down this route, Rey should kick Kylo's ass so hard. She already beat him whilst being pretty much untrained, now she's gonna get training from Luke who should be a better force user than this Snoke dude who no one has heard of before. I do wonder how they will set up the next clash between these 2. It's gonna be hard to make me believe that Kylo stands a chance. Rey v Snoke would be a more interesting fight but that's probably for the final movie. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
Then when he took him helmet off, they changed his mind. If they waited till movie 3 for him to take off his helm, that would have ruined it both ways. People would be pissed off more that he took it off and those who liked it got nothing out of it because he did it when it barely mattered. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 14 2016 21:39 Laurens wrote: If they go down this route, Rey should kick Kylo's ass so hard. She already beat him whilst being pretty much untrained, now she's gonna get training from Luke who should be a better force user than this Snoke dude who no one has heard of before. I do wonder how they will set up the next clash between these 2. It's gonna be hard to make me believe that Kylo stands a chance. Rey v Snoke would be a more interesting fight but that's probably for the final movie. Well he won't be wounded next time either. He did get shot by the storm trooper launcher. I'm pretty sure once they are both trained up they will be equals, both trained and uninjured. We will see more of the Knights of Ren too. Found this a day ago, its a pretty good little fan comic: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://cdn.bgr.com/2016/01/chewbacca-kylo-ren-relationship.jpg?w=624) | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1028 Posts
What was a bit lame was that the Millennium Falcon was oddly placed like a random starship on a scrubby planet, that the movie was making parody of itself a little bit too much (although the jokes were really funny) and that there was a lot of background story that the viewer missed out on since it's been 30 years since the last movie. Like who was the Jedi at the start that recognized Kylo Ren but was immediately killed? At first I thought that was Luke lol. But I'm sure they'll make pre-sequels as either movies or TV-shows in one way or another to explain everything. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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